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#52 Dec 02 2012 at 6:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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So how about those mini-games...?
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#53 Dec 02 2012 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
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ChaChaJaJa wrote:
So how about those mini-games...?


It's a choreographed plot to bury my plushie request. Plushie haters!
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#54 Dec 02 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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I had a dream last night that I was playing SkiBall with baby ewes... it needs to happen!
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#55 Dec 02 2012 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
I honestly kinda figured you'd just quote something without really understanding it, so I still really don't have anything else to say. I'm sure you can do this all day, and if I point out that "you're wrong, because," you can just keep doing the same thing over and over.

I figured you'd repeat the fact that it's a matter of interpretation, while still calling me wrong, even though there is no concrete evidence to the contrary.

Kachi wrote:
Whether or not people will pay money to move some of SE's property from one room in SE's own house to another room in their own house is completely, entirely, 100% irrelevant.

Only as irrelevant as it is for someone moving money from one persons bank account to another. Should someone be taxed for receiving money as a result of 'moving furniture' in SE's house?

Kachi wrote:
Legally, that's the end of the story. Period. Case closed. I was just trying to explain some of the finer points for posterity, in a hypothetical, "Even if that wasn't the case..." sort of way.

Not really, but if you'd like to believe that it's as open and closed as you'd have us believe... so be it. The internet's lawyer has spoken I suppose.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#56 Dec 02 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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You're right, we're totally done here until you can offer some reason that you know what you're talking about, other than, "I can read and interpret things like any other layman."
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#57 Dec 02 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
Kachi wrote:
The bottom line was that this "debate" was over as soon as I pointed out that you never receive any property. Whether or not people will pay money to move some of SE's property from one room in SE's own house to another room in their own house is completely, entirely, 100% irrelevant. Legally, that's the end of the story. Period. Case closed. I was just trying to explain some of the finer points for posterity, in a hypothetical, "Even if that wasn't the case..." sort of way.


That still hasn't stopped lawmakers from considering taxation of those virtual property items you supposedly don't own but sort of feel like you do, however. So I don't know that the issue is necessarily as settled as you believe. If the government is considering the case that those virtual items are worth taxing, say in the event of your death for an Estate Tax evaluation on the million dollar Second Life property your heirs will inherit, it's hard to believe that this would somehow also escape Internet gambling law (when those winnings could be taxed too).

It's not that I disagree with your logic on virtual property. I happen to agree with it immensely. But I don't know that we're at a "case closed" state on the subject as long as virtual items are perceived to have real world value.

Put another way, paper dollars don't have any more value than the people who use them have confidence in their worth, and increasingly, these dollars are nothing more tangible than digital representations in a database. It actually isn't all that far off from a virtual world's economy, when you think about it. If you have enough control over virtual assets that you can exchange them for goods, both real and virtual, to someone who considers them valuable, is it really all that different than digitally transferring money from one person's bank account to someone else's in exchange for goods in the real world?

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1043_3-6140298.html


Lawmakers aren't seriously considering it. They'd like to--they'd like to tax anything they can. But they're still going to hit the wall with virtual goods for the same reason I cited. Suppose, for example, they evaluate my Second Life account. Well, I still don't own it. According to my terms of service, I might not even be allowed to transfer it to another player without that being grounds for terminating the account. Therefor, I can't legitimately inherit the account.

This is more akin to you going to your buddy Larry's house for a game of poker. You and your friends play with Larry's chips, and you even pay to play the game. You can even buy more chips with cash. Your friends really value the chips, as a matter of pride, and will even pay each other for the chips because they think they're cool. But there's one reason that this isn't gambling: ultimately you can't cash out. You can't take the chips with you. Everything still belongs to Larry. You haven't even gambled, let alone acquired a taxable asset. We can even leave out the fact that Larry will take all your chips away if he catches you purchasing them from other players. As much as legislators will theorize ways that they might turn an underground exchange of money (of any kind) into tax revenue "exchange of imaginary personal status or assets" is just never going to survive the process.

Now, games like GW2 with interchangeable real-world and in-game economies could be different in an extremely hypothetical sense. But games that maintain a subscription service model, no way in **** they'll ever make it work. It's as big a fantasy as any SE game. And trust me, if it was anywhere on the radar, there would already be a lobby to oppose it from the video gaming industry.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#58 Dec 02 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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How would a court handle a case where someone was assaulted in a casino and robbed of their chips. The culprit was somehow able to cash the chips in and skate off with the money before he was apprehended. Would the court only hear the case as an assault because casino chips have no cash value? I understand that you refuse to be wrong and will point out as long as you continue to post about this that I am wrong, but why you refuse to admit that there is grey here is beyond me.

My personal opinion is that it isn't a matter of right and wrong and a matter of interpretation. We both present valid cases for both sides of the chip so to speak, but you're unwilling to accept any valid case simply because you know more about the subject? Really? Mmk.

Kachi wrote:
This is more akin to you going to your buddy Larry's house for a game of poker.

Poker is a game of skill, not a game of chance. Regardless of the cards I am dealt, it is possible to outplay Larry and win a hand. Again, up to interpretation, but a clear case can be made against poker being gambling if the law requires the game to be subject to chance.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#59 Dec 02 2012 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I don't think they could implement gambling, considering what happened to the moogle lottery in XI.


Interestingly XI still has the Venture Roll in game where you compete against other players in a dice game.
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#60 Dec 03 2012 at 5:50 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
My personal opinion is that it isn't a matter of right and wrong and a matter of interpretation. We both present valid cases for both sides of the chip so to speak, but you're unwilling to accept any valid case simply because you know more about the subject? Really? Mmk.


You got it! It IS a matter of interpreting the law! And what I've been trying to tell you all this time is the way that 99% of legal council will interpret it, because it's a pretty big stretch to interpret it any other way when taken with respect to all applicable laws on the books.

Quote:
Poker is a game of skill, not a game of chance. Regardless of the cards I am dealt, it is possible to outplay Larry and win a hand. Again, up to interpretation, but a clear case can be made against poker being gambling if the law requires the game to be subject to chance.


First of all, legally speaking, it doesn't necessarily matter if it's a game of skill or chance. Also legally speaking, no, poker is a game of chance. I believe this one has even actually been ruled on specifically, but the overarching rule is whether it is PREDOMINANTLY a game of skill or chance. I'm not going to even begin to get into the math that is used to justify these arguments, but suffice it to say that the current determination is that anything one might consider gambling is still considered a game of chance. Fantasy football is very much riding the line, itself.

Oh, and for my example, it doesn't matter if the game is poker or tiddlywinks. We can just assume it's any form of otherwise illegal gambling. The point is, it's legal for the reasons I outlined. Another good example of why virtual goods won't ever be considered honest assets is for the same reason that you can't bequeath a debit card or credit card as an asset. That is, if your rich grandfather gives you his debit card, you still don't own any of the money in the bank. The card itself is nontransferable and has no value. As long as you don't spend it on something which could be counted as a tangible asset (or, strictly speaking, exceed the maximum gift limit), the government cannot recognize the card as an asset. For all intents and purposes, you have been given nothing. And if your grandfather were to ever die or be "shut down" it wouldn't matter how much money was in the account-- the card would be entirely worthless.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#61 Dec 03 2012 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Can't believe you two are still at it tbh.

About the mini-games I was thinking about what type of card game I would prefer with Triple triad and Tetra master as the two options. Of course they could do something else, but those are the two I've played before.

I read this: http://www.ign.com/blogs/godofmoogles/2012/01/25/final-fantasy-celebration-card-game-showdown-triple-triad-vs-tetra-master to freshen up my memory of the differences. Overall I think I would want Tetra master simply because it is a little more complex. I do like the card modding in Triple triad though and it feels like something like it could be introduced even if you had Tetra master.

As far as I can remember I loved both so either would be cool with me, but if I got to choose I'd pick Tetra master. Anyone who has played other card games that have good things that might fit well into a game like this? I am thinking it can't be too complicated so that people would have a hard time getting into it, but it can't be too simplistic either because it should be hard to master imo.

I know I already said it, but I really hope we get it. I'd love to fight the pompous prince in a card game and take his best card after I beat him. I'd love to venture out into a dark forest and meet an old man in a cottage hidden behind the trees only to find him much to powerful a foe for my deck and instead recieve an epic card game quest. Or why not take part in the annual card games of Uldah and be crowned this years champion?

I can honestly say that if they had something like this and really expanded on it well, I would try to finish as much story as I could and then focus entirely on getting cards. At the very least it would make me not be in such a hurry to complete all end game things which would extend the games life before it got boring for me by a lot.
#62 Dec 03 2012 at 7:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah if this thread doesn't drop off the radar by the end of the day I think I'm gonna lock it Smiley: smile
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#63 Dec 03 2012 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't hold back on my account Smiley: tongue
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#64 Dec 03 2012 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Stop bumping it then! Smiley: mad
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"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#65 Dec 03 2012 at 11:57 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Stop bumping it then! Smiley: mad


Stop Bumping his Bump Smiley: boozing
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Pikko wrote:
I can't freaking believe I didn't click this thread earlier. YOU LITTLE TWERPS!!


Wint wrote:
You know, I can click the rate down button more than once Smiley: motz


>>>--Justice-->
#66 Dec 03 2012 at 12:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dalans wrote:
Wint wrote:
Stop bumping it then! Smiley: mad


Stop Bumping his Bump Smiley: boozing


You know, I can click the rate down button more than once Smiley: motz
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"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#67 Dec 03 2012 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe you should have done that instead of bumping it again Smiley: clown
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#68 Dec 04 2012 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Dalans wrote:
Wint wrote:
Stop bumping it then! Smiley: mad


Stop Bumping his Bump Smiley: boozing


You know, I can click the rate down button more than once Smiley: motz


Kachi wrote:
Maybe you should have done that instead of bumping it again Smiley: clown


You could Smiley: cry


but....

It was totally worth the new sig ! Smiley: flowers Thank You !
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Pikko wrote:
I can't freaking believe I didn't click this thread earlier. YOU LITTLE TWERPS!!


Wint wrote:
You know, I can click the rate down button more than once Smiley: motz


>>>--Justice-->
#69 Dec 08 2012 at 7:39 AM Rating: Good
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Ok, I'll drag it back on topic, seeming I've pretty much ignored the derail.

There's such a great hubub about Marriage in this game. I wonder if Gold Saucer will be a place where the Developers can actually plan and impliment something for 'dating'.

After all, one of the most memorable scenes of Golden Saucer is Cloud taking out your date of 'choice' for a night out on the saucer, ending in a lovely gondala ride.
#70 Dec 08 2012 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Ha, I think that's kind of brilliant. I'd love to see the return of the gondola.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#71 Dec 08 2012 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
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And the fireworks. There better be fireworks.
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#72 Dec 12 2012 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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With the on/off talk about button mashing, how about bringing arm wrestling in? Worth seeing a lalafell or miqo'te take down a highlander or roegadyn?
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#73 Dec 12 2012 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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Sounds like it would make for a rousing game of "Who has the best turbo controller?" Smiley: laugh
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#74 Dec 31 2012 at 5:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Here are some ideas I have kicking around for the Golden Saucer... some of these are built on other ideas people have suggested in this thread:

1) Tokens and tickets, like an arcade!

- Basically, GS has it's own currency that you purchase with gil (tokens). Non-refundable. You use the tokens to play games, and based on your score or if you win or lose you get tickets. These tickets can then be redeemed at the item counter for a variety of rare/ex items, including gear and furnishings, some of which will come with titles and achievements. Some of the gear can even have specific mini-game type bonuses-- imagine a basketball looking jersey that allows you to shoot 4 basketballs instead of 3 at the Hoopz mini-game.

2) Real rewards!

- I also think that obtaining other *real* goods by exchanging tickets is a neat idea. These could be for exclusive XIV products, or other SE merchandise. Say SE makes a cactuar plushie based on the XIV model... and the only way you could obtain it is through the GC (can't be ordered otherwise)... it would really motivate some people to grind for it. And there's no reason that unlocking it couldn't come with an achievement, title, or an even an in game cactuar furnishing. In terms of other merchandise, perhaps you really want the Bravery Default soundtrack... but would rather play mini-games to earn it then spend your hard earned dough. An added incentive to not pay for it, again, would be to pair it with some type of digital content.

3) Gifting!

- Say you decide to take your e-mistress on a date to the GS, and she really wants the Fat Chocobo furnishing. You can play games to win it for her, then when you go to purchase it at the item counter, you can make it out directly to her, and it would be sent via Mognet. If it arrives as a rare/ex item, then it can't be sold, thus removing any possible gil implications. (The item could just be accepted and discarded if unwanted.) No titles or achievements can be 'gifted', however.

4) Consumables!

- Hotdogs, cotton candy, fireworks, beer-- anything befitting of a theme or amusement park, really. These can all be bought with gil

5) Attractions!

- There should be lots of places that you want to visit within the park itself, just to see them. Like at the Magic Kingdom there could be fireworks every night at 8:00 pm in game, but to get the best viewpoint (and take the best screenshots!) you'll want to be at the main courtyard. There could be a parade of FF themed mascots in a specific spot at 12 pm. There could be a gondola ride, for a small fee. There are tons of possibilities here, really.

6) The Colosseum!

- FF6 style, but against another opponent. 1 on 1, fight to the incap. You wager an item, the game blindly matches you with someone who has waged a similar item. Winner takes all. For the sake of simplicity, say level 50s only. If someone d/cs during the match, it's an automatic forfeit. Each fight could also have a small entry fee... another gil sink. Alternatively, tickets could be used in place of items.

7) And of course, mini-games!

- There are so many ideas from past FFs to draw on. For the sake of simplicity, let's include chocobo racing/betting under this heading (note: if this is done with tickets, then there is no need to worry about RMTs exploiting it). Whether it's snowboarding from FF7 or 'poker' from FFXIII-2, it would be pretty easy to adapt 10 solid mini-games from previous titles... not to mention, pretty **** fun. A large part of ARR is supposed to be fostering an FF feel (and in the process providing fan service), and especially with it being the 25th anniversary, I think it would be great to see at least some classic mini-games reinvented. I'm also totally open to new mini-games as well, so long as they're enjoyable (and as far away from parley as possible, lol).


Edited, Dec 31st 2012 5:39pm by Onionthiefx
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#75 Jan 01 2013 at 2:45 AM Rating: Decent
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inb4 darkmoon faire
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#76 Jan 01 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Default
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Magitek Battle Circuit:
A circuit blending elements of star wars pod racing, nascar like teams/tuning, and transformers lol. Magitek armors have a hover mode for speed & a running mode for carnage. Instead of mechanical weapons like grenades & guns or physics based like some games. The weapons are based off ff spells from previous games.

FFXIV Tactics:
A multiplayer version using in game characters & lore. This is a team based pvp affair. To save development time, SE could just use existing in game models of jobs, classes, & enemies. Then lock this mode into turn based actions & assign the terrain values, etc.

Each of these only give rewards that benefit where you earned it at. Thus not affecting the standard game or people who do not wish to participate.
#77 Jan 02 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
There are states that prohibit online gambling, but legally it's only considered gambling if players are putting up real money to do it.

Not so. Not sure if you've been to a casino or not, but you don't actually gamble with real money. You use chips or tokens that have no value instead of actually using money. Technically, you're not gambling with 'real money' but instead, something that only the casino honors to trade for cash.





Apparently you've never walked pass the slot machines...
#78 Jan 02 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Here are some ideas I have kicking around for the Golden Saucer... some of these are built on other ideas people have suggested in this thread:

1) Tokens and tickets, like an arcade!

- Basically, GS has it's own currency that you purchase with gil (tokens). Non-refundable. You use the tokens to play games, and based on your score or if you win or lose you get tickets. These tickets can then be redeemed at the item counter for a variety of rare/ex items, including gear and furnishings, some of which will come with titles and achievements. Some of the gear can even have specific mini-game type bonuses-- imagine a basketball looking jersey that allows you to shoot 4 basketballs instead of 3 at the Hoopz mini-game.

2) Real rewards!

- I also think that obtaining other *real* goods by exchanging tickets is a neat idea. These could be for exclusive XIV products, or other SE merchandise. Say SE makes a cactuar plushie based on the XIV model... and the only way you could obtain it is through the GC (can't be ordered otherwise)... it would really motivate some people to grind for it. And there's no reason that unlocking it couldn't come with an achievement, title, or an even an in game cactuar furnishing. In terms of other merchandise, perhaps you really want the Bravery Default soundtrack... but would rather play mini-games to earn it then spend your hard earned dough. An added incentive to not pay for it, again, would be to pair it with some type of digital content.

3) Gifting!

- Say you decide to take your e-mistress on a date to the GS, and she really wants the Fat Chocobo furnishing. You can play games to win it for her, then when you go to purchase it at the item counter, you can make it out directly to her, and it would be sent via Mognet. If it arrives as a rare/ex item, then it can't be sold, thus removing any possible gil implications. (The item could just be accepted and discarded if unwanted.) No titles or achievements can be 'gifted', however.

4) Consumables!

- Hotdogs, cotton candy, fireworks, beer-- anything befitting of a theme or amusement park, really. These can all be bought with gil

5) Attractions!

- There should be lots of places that you want to visit within the park itself, just to see them. Like at the Magic Kingdom there could be fireworks every night at 8:00 pm in game, but to get the best viewpoint (and take the best screenshots!) you'll want to be at the main courtyard. There could be a parade of FF themed mascots in a specific spot at 12 pm. There could be a gondola ride, for a small fee. There are tons of possibilities here, really.

6) The Colosseum!

- FF6 style, but against another opponent. 1 on 1, fight to the incap. You wager an item, the game blindly matches you with someone who has waged a similar item. Winner takes all. For the sake of simplicity, say level 50s only. If someone d/cs during the match, it's an automatic forfeit. Each fight could also have a small entry fee... another gil sink. Alternatively, tickets could be used in place of items.

7) And of course, mini-games!

- There are so many ideas from past FFs to draw on. For the sake of simplicity, let's include chocobo racing/betting under this heading (note: if this is done with tickets, then there is no need to worry about RMTs exploiting it). Whether it's snowboarding from FF7 or 'poker' from FFXIII-2, it would be pretty easy to adapt 10 solid mini-games from previous titles... not to mention, pretty **** fun. A large part of ARR is supposed to be fostering an FF feel (and in the process providing fan service), and especially with it being the 25th anniversary, I think it would be great to see at least some classic mini-games reinvented. I'm also totally open to new mini-games as well, so long as they're enjoyable (and as far away from parley as possible, lol).


Edited, Dec 31st 2012 5:39pm by Onionthiefx


I absolutely LOVE some of these ideas!

The irl merchandise grind needs to be just that. A grind. Swag is a serious source of revenue so it should take a substantial amount of time to earn for "free". I.E: enough subscription time to compensate.

I think I love the idea of a scheduled parade more than my fortune-telling moogle (shouldn't be a daily event. Maybe once a month to keep it relevant).

Gondola is a must.

Gifting is a must (love the idea of sending my "macho" guy friends plushie furnishings.

Gold(en) Saucer can truly be epic. And truly has room to improve as the years accumulate.



Edited, Jan 2nd 2013 6:24pm by ShindaUsagi
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#79 Jan 02 2013 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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What if the"Gold Saucer" is a building that, literally, sells gold saucers?

I vote for a Claw Machine mini game.
#80 Jan 02 2013 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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WFOAssassin wrote:
What if the"Gold Saucer" is a building that, literally, sells gold saucers?

I vote for a Claw Machine mini game.


Give me plushies. I'll spend ridiculous amounts of gil on a claw if I can have my plushies.
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