Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 Next »
This Forum is Read Only

I hope the devs realize soloable =/= easyFollow

#102 Dec 19 2012 at 8:58 AM Rating: Default
****
4,953 posts
Wint wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
sit on their couch instead of a computer chair. I shouldn't be put at a disadvantage because I want to use my TV.

I'm very much a fan of getting a game as-is and not having to install a set of mods or add-ons just to play at the same level as others, or be disadvantaged because I use a console in a multi-platform game.


I like to sit on my couch as well to play games, but let's not pretend that we are not purposely putting ourselves at that disatvantage by making that choice. PC players, who choose superior processing power, graphics, and control shouldn't be forced to come down to our level just because we prefer to use an inferior piece of hardware. The millions of people playing WoW and Rift and SWToR and Tera and Secret World aren't going to rush to FFXIV to dumb down their gaming experience. They'd mostly laugh at what is being suggested in this thread in regards to outlawing add ons and making the experience on PC identical to console.

If you want to play competitively with FPS players on PC, you get a pc. You don't stamp your foot and say "I like a controller so you have to be less efficient so I am not at a disadvantage". When armies started upgrading from swords and shields to projectile weapons and tactical warfare, generals didn't say "welp we prefer swords so we are just going to keep using those and see how that goes." They improved their soldiers' equipment, or they died. Morbid comparison maybe, but it's really the same idea. Evolve or die out... or at the very least accept that there are going to be people out there who have an easier time controlling the game than you.

This game needs to be competitive with modern mmorpgs, and that does mean making a better gaming experience for the target market. There has to be a compelling reason to switch to this game from others in order for them to succeed in a market this saturated, and dumbing down the UI so that we can give the illusion of a "level" playing field to a small percentage of console players is not the way to do it. In fact, who even cares? It's not like this is a PvP centric game anyway.



Edited, Dec 19th 2012 9:17am by Torrence


So much this.

My nephew actually said I was "cheating" by beating his *** over and over again in COD because I was using a mouse versus his PS3 controller Smiley: laugh



lol i like how ppl whine about that... Ive beaten plenty of mouse and keyboard users with a controller.. sure its HARDER but not IMPOSSIBLE>>

I mean how many sports or other competitive events have we all seen where ppl are given a handicap or put at a disadvantage and still manage to win? having the advantage or superior weapon doesnt guarantee victory. I gun with a sword can kill a guy with a gun provided he plans ahead and does it right.. of course if he rushes the guy straight at him with his sword like an idiot. he'll be shot and killed, but what good does that gun do teh other guy if he doesnt see his opponent coming? sneak up on him and take him by surprise.. use a few distractions then take advantage of that, theres plenty of methods that can be used
#103 Dec 19 2012 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
And this is why SE is thus far the only game developer who wants to even bring an mmo to a console. It's just too much hassle, and it's far too constricting. Personally, I think it's a bad idea and they should just stick to the pc. The same argument is brought up every time folks compare FPS experience on a pc and a console. The PC blows the console players away every single time, but that's not the game's fault for being more accessible on one medium verses the other. Nor would it be an add on's fault because I can get to my Shift+right click faster than someone can scroll through a menu to get a macro.


Phantasy Star Series
DC Universe

These MMOs did quite well on consoles. Just because it's harder is not a reason to ignore the larger market of gamers. As far as MMOs go, many people prefer to use controllers even on PC, and sit on their couch instead of a computer chair. I shouldn't be put at a disadvantage because I want to use my TV.

I'm very much a fan of getting a game as-is and not having to install a set of mods or add-ons just to play at the same level as others, or be disadvantaged because I use a console in a multi-platform game.



umm you know phantasy star SERIES was a single player game(s) before the online ones right? so phantasy star online wasnt the first phantasy star game thus you cant label the "phantasy star series" as online.

But anyway the phantasy star online games are online RPGS not MMORPGS... you dont interact with hundreds of players at once... you just wait in a lobby form a small group and do a quest... PSO isnt an MMO (do some research) :p


Oh thanks for the history lesson. While we're being condescending, you DO realize that MMOs have instanced content, and having this does not take it out of the "MMO" Category, right?

MMOs are defined by persistent online worlds, with many players. There was many players in the hubs, trading, everything you would expect.

And yes, I am aware of (and own) the previous entries in the series. I didn't feel like I needed to type out the last 5 games in the series and assumed people would understand what I was talking about instead of trying to knowledge drop for street cred and high fives.
____________________________


#104 Dec 19 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
And this is why SE is thus far the only game developer who wants to even bring an mmo to a console. It's just too much hassle, and it's far too constricting. Personally, I think it's a bad idea and they should just stick to the pc. The same argument is brought up every time folks compare FPS experience on a pc and a console. The PC blows the console players away every single time, but that's not the game's fault for being more accessible on one medium verses the other. Nor would it be an add on's fault because I can get to my Shift+right click faster than someone can scroll through a menu to get a macro.


1) SE relies heavily on its JP subscriber base, which overwhelmingly prefer playing on consoles.

2) It is absolutely the game's fault for making one medium more accessible than another. For example, if you take away mouse-aiming on an FPS, the PC advantage evaporates completely. A controller's directional pad is vastly superior to using arrow keys to aim. Of course, if you give players the option of using a mouse, then that gives them an advantage. And if I have a touch screen where I can just poke things with a stylus, that's much more efficient for aiming than a mouse. With each degree of interface separation, more aim is required. It's the difference between trying to knock over a cup on a table by throwing a tennis ball at it, or just walking up to it and smacking it.

Which is fine and all, and there are legitimate arguments on both ends for the role that UI and peripherals should and should not play in game difficulty. Personally I don't consider a controller to be a harbinger of fake difficulty in shooters, and I think a mouse removes most of the elements of aim that are supposed to make shooters, you know, shooters. A mouse, to me, turns a shooter into a game of whack-a-mole.

Challenge is what makes these games fun, afterall. I don't see the mouse as an inherently superior peripheral by any stretch. It can be enabled to do things that make it seem cheat-mode compared to a controller, but it doesn't have to be. It has more to do with the industry standards.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#105 Dec 19 2012 at 9:57 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
334 posts
Disclaimer #1: I'm not speaking for anyone else, just my own experience/viewpoints.
Disclaimer #2: I didn't play enough WoW to comment on WoW add-ons. My comments are only in regards to FFXI.

My comments regarding add-ons were meant to address a specific idea- people keep saying or insinuating that the add-ons are nothing more than QoL tools. Then we had weapon analogies. Well, if you bring a knife to a gun fight... etc. etc. You can't have it both ways people. Guns are more efficient than knives (or insert you favorite analogy...). They create a disparity in performance. This is more than just a QoL upgrade. The availability of some add-ons dramatically increases efficiency beyond what is available to console players. They create a disparity in performance. This is more than just a QoL upgrade.

If a console RNG has to eyeball distance while someone with windower can know it precisely at all times, it creates a disparity. If a console player has to click several macros to gear swap while a person with a spellcast script can literally put if/then statements into their script so they have on the perfect gear at all times, it creates a disparity. I don't disagree that they improve the QoL of the person using them, but QoL upgrade isn't the end of the story. No, it doesn't break the game, but it DOES change the game. Console players and PC players are playing under two very different sets of conditions. When that occurs, it can't be waved off as simply QoL.

Again, I'm not arguing for or against add-ons. I recently subscribed to XI again and this time I bought it for my PC because I'm tired of bringing a knife to a gun fight. If you can't beat em, join em. But I clearly understand the frustration that occurs when others have access to resources that I don't. I wasn't looking for anyone to feel bad for console players, I was asking people to quit pretending there was an equality. Some add-ons are simple QoL. They don't create a disparity of performance. But the add-ons that circumvent actual performance barriers imposed by the programming of the game are more than just QoL upgrades. You can insert your opinions and call them facts, but please realize that there is a difference between subjective and objective. I was just simply stating some facts on the issue.

Edited, Dec 19th 2012 10:58am by ChaChaJaJa
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#106 Dec 19 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Default
****
4,953 posts
Louiscool wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
And this is why SE is thus far the only game developer who wants to even bring an mmo to a console. It's just too much hassle, and it's far too constricting. Personally, I think it's a bad idea and they should just stick to the pc. The same argument is brought up every time folks compare FPS experience on a pc and a console. The PC blows the console players away every single time, but that's not the game's fault for being more accessible on one medium verses the other. Nor would it be an add on's fault because I can get to my Shift+right click faster than someone can scroll through a menu to get a macro.


Phantasy Star Series
DC Universe

These MMOs did quite well on consoles. Just because it's harder is not a reason to ignore the larger market of gamers. As far as MMOs go, many people prefer to use controllers even on PC, and sit on their couch instead of a computer chair. I shouldn't be put at a disadvantage because I want to use my TV.

I'm very much a fan of getting a game as-is and not having to install a set of mods or add-ons just to play at the same level as others, or be disadvantaged because I use a console in a multi-platform game.



umm you know phantasy star SERIES was a single player game(s) before the online ones right? so phantasy star online wasnt the first phantasy star game thus you cant label the "phantasy star series" as online.

But anyway the phantasy star online games are online RPGS not MMORPGS... you dont interact with hundreds of players at once... you just wait in a lobby form a small group and do a quest... PSO isnt an MMO (do some research) :p


Oh thanks for the history lesson. While we're being condescending, you DO realize that MMOs have instanced content, and having this does not take it out of the "MMO" Category, right?

MMOs are defined by persistent online worlds, with many players. There was many players in the hubs, trading, everything you would expect.

And yes, I am aware of (and own) the previous entries in the series. I didn't feel like I needed to type out the last 5 games in the series and assumed people would understand what I was talking about instead of trying to knowledge drop for street cred and high fives.


yes I do realize MMOs have instanced content.. the difference is in those MMOs they ENTIRE GAME outside of the lobby isnt instanced. there was nothing persistent about phantasy star online. You do know there is a difference between an MMORPG and an ORPG right? not every RPG with online is automatically an MMORPG. But if youd care please do show me the links proving that phantasy star online, portable and or universe are MMORPGs.. because I can show you about 500 links that say otherwise.

the only reason I dont hold that same stance with the original guild wars is because not only is it advertised by its devs as an MMORPG. but the towns hold hundres of players at once running aroudn and interacting as opposed to just a 13-15 player max 3D lobby. I mean we may as well call white knight chronicles an mmorpg too if PSO/PSU is one then right?
#107 Dec 19 2012 at 10:27 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
562 posts
Regardless of past examples or other MMOs, add-ons need to be viewed as "hey, wouldn't it be cool if ..." UI and information display type improvements the playerbase contributes back to the community. They are not "I'm sick of healing, so I'm going to create an add-on that automatically heals everyone around me if they're below 25% health", that's an extreme example of rogue add-ons most developers nix as quickly as they pop up.

Blizzard has done a great job throughout the years of incorporating these player-built add-on improvements into their default game client for World of Warcraft. This is what add-ons were meant to do and in that regard, it's almost a requirement MMOs have them. If certain parts of FFXIV feel cumbersome and tedious because of convoluted UI design and display, an add-on should fix that and SE should look at that contribution and say "yes, this is an improvement, let's roll it into a future release."

There's no reason to be weary of add-ons or a game's support for them. I think most people are timid toward such a culture because the quintessential example of MMORPG add-on bloat and Wild West attitude toward requirements for participation is WoW. If we ignore the bad that came from such early iterations of a powerful add-on backend and focus on the game improvements that came because of this feature, it's easy to see how they can improve a game tremendously.
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#108 Dec 19 2012 at 10:39 AM Rating: Decent
***
2,010 posts
And again, console players make that choice. They choose to play on hardware they know has and will continue to have limitations. If console players were limited to only playing on console, you might have a point, but anyone who has access to a console also has access to a PC. They don't have anyone to blame for limitations but themselves. You didn't even have to buy XI again to play. I am still using my original codes from when I started on ps2.

As far as SE relying on its JP playerbase... and them "overwhelmingly" preferring consoles... Why is the Ps3 the afterthought in this development process? It never even released for 1.0. It's scheduled for a beta when PC goes to beta, so we will see how that turns out. Somehow, I don't really think that SE is hanging the success of their company on the percentage of people who were still playing XI on their ps2's. If they want any credibility or success in today's market, banking on the JP's playing Ps3s isn't going to cut it, especially if they tell the people who DO want to play on PC "Sorry Charlie, but you don't get to have nice things because Akira prefers to play on console and we have to make sure you can't do anything better than him."

They want to compete in the global marketplace, not just the Japanese one. Else we'd never even see the game.
#109 Dec 19 2012 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Torrence wrote:
They want to compete in the global marketplace, not just the Japanese one. Else we'd never even see the game.


And yet we have no announcement for Bravely Default for NA! Smiley: motz
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#110 Dec 19 2012 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
****
4,144 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
yes I do realize MMOs have instanced content.. the difference is in those MMOs they ENTIRE GAME outside of the lobby isnt instanced. there was nothing persistent about phantasy star online. You do know there is a difference between an MMORPG and an ORPG right?


CMIIW, but the greater part of GW1 was instanced outside the cities, yet it was still considered an MMO. Either way, you're arguing semantics and everyone except you knew what Louis was talking about.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
But if youd care please do show me the links proving that phantasy star online, portable and or universe are MMORPGs.. because I can show you about 500 links that say otherwise.

First non-wiki link I searched:
IGN wrote:
SEGA's genre-defining MMO franchise returns with this full-fledged sequel to Phantasy Star Online.

The next:
Gamespot wrote:
Sega has announced the release date for the PlayStation Vita version of Phantasy Star Online 2. The free-to-play MMORPG will be out in Japan on February 28.


Call it whatever the **** you want to, but answer this... are you arguing nonsense to change the subject or just to be an ***?
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#111 Dec 19 2012 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:


yes I do realize MMOs have instanced content.. the difference is in those MMOs they ENTIRE GAME outside of the lobby isnt instanced. there was nothing persistent about phantasy star online. You do know there is a difference between an MMORPG and an ORPG right? not every RPG with online is automatically an MMORPG. But if youd care please do show me the links proving that phantasy star online, portable and or universe are MMORPGs.. because I can show you about 500 links that say otherwise.

the only reason I dont hold that same stance with the original guild wars is because not only is it advertised by its devs as an MMORPG. but the towns hold hundres of players at once running aroudn and interacting as opposed to just a 13-15 player max 3D lobby. I mean we may as well call white knight chronicles an mmorpg too if PSO/PSU is one then right?


I care too little to discuss the finer points of what makes something an mmo with you, talk amongst yourself.
____________________________


#112 Dec 19 2012 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
MMORPG

Massive - Big. More than a few people play together. The game "Journey" is not considered an MMO because even in its multi player mode, only 2 people can interact per level.

Multiplayer - Just what it says. More than one person. As opposed to an offline console.

Online: Connect through the standard Internet, not LAN.

RPG: I shouldn't have to explain this.

MMORPG just means an online RPG with a large number of players who can interact. Persistent virtual worlds are not necessarily MMORPGs, and an MMORPG doesn't necessarily require a persistent virtual world (it's not included in the definition.)
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#113 Dec 19 2012 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Man...there are times I wish I had a sock account so I could participate and take sides. As it is I'm probably borderline between admin and an *** abusing his power Smiley: grin
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#114 Dec 19 2012 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,202 posts
So white knights chronicles was a MMORGP :O ? Damm lol talk about being stuck in 1999 lol
____________________________
MUTED
#115 Dec 19 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
334 posts
Torrence wrote:
And again, console players make that choice. They choose to play on hardware they know has and will continue to have limitations. If console players were limited to only playing on console, you might have a point, but anyone who has access to a console also has access to a PC. They don't have anyone to blame for limitations but themselves.


Whose blaming anyone for limitations? Reread my post- my point had nothing to do with whether a person could or could not choose a PC over a PS2. I was disagreeing with the sentiment that add-ons don't give an advantage- that they are nothing more than "quality of life" effects. Which is ******** retarded. I understand your point that it's a choice to play on one system vs. the other and you get what you get. Choose the gun or the knife. I get it. But to say that the gun is only a QoL improvement over the knife and nothing more. Rocks in your ******* head if you think that.


Torrence wrote:
You didn't even have to buy XI again to play. I am still using my original codes from when I started on ps2.


I needed expansions. And buying the whole game was the same price or cheaper than buying the expansions piecemeal.
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#116 Dec 19 2012 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
catwho wrote:
MMORPG

Massive - Big. More than a few people play together. The game "Journey" is not considered an MMO because even in its multi player mode, only 2 people can interact per level.

Multiplayer - Just what it says. More than one person. As opposed to an offline console.

Online: Connect through the standard Internet, not LAN.

RPG: I shouldn't have to explain this.

MMORPG just means an online RPG with a large number of players who can interact. Persistent virtual worlds are not necessarily MMORPGs, and an MMORPG doesn't necessarily require a persistent virtual world (it's not included in the definition.)


Regardless of it's classification, my only point is that console players WANT an mmo. It's often neglected due mainly to the constraints of a console life and negotiations console companies online structure (mainly just MS).

If FFXIV wants a piece of that goldmine, they can't make them second-class citizens by allowing a vast market of PC only add-ons. It just won't work, which is why with FFXI, Windower was a violation of ToS.


On the subject of Console Vs PC Keyboard Vs Mouse, you're (Torrence) pretty much making my point for me. YES, mouse and keyboard is a huge advantage, which is why they don't generally allow cross-platform play. See how well that worked for Shadowrun (Pst, duomaxwell, I'm referring to the XBOX game here, not the Sega Genesis.)

So by handing PC players an advantage, it's like playing a shooter with a mouse against a console player. You have to give the tools to all platforms.

Edited, Dec 19th 2012 3:27pm by Louiscool

Edited, Dec 19th 2012 3:28pm by Louiscool
____________________________


#117 Dec 19 2012 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
I wish I had a sock account so I could participate and take sides. As it is I'm probably borderline between admin and an *** abusing his power

You do, and you are.
#118 Dec 19 2012 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,010 posts
ChaChaJaJa wrote:

Whose blaming anyone for limitations? Reread my post- my point had nothing to do with whether a person could or could not choose a PC over a PS2. I was disagreeing with the sentiment that add-ons don't give an advantage- that they are nothing more than "quality of life" effects. Which is bullsh*t retarded. I understand your point that it's a choice to play on one system vs. the other and you get what you get. Choose the gun or the knife. I get it. But to say that the gun is only a QoL improvement over the knife and nothing more. Rocks in your @#%^ing head if you think that.


Except that it is. Both can make you equally dead. You can kill someone with a knife, or you can kill someone with a gun. Does one require more precision, practice, and finesse to do it from a distance? Yes. Why? Because one can accept enhancements\is already an enhanced tool and one cannot. Rocks in YOUR head if you can't understand that. Just like both console and PC can bring you a gaming experience - the only difference being the level of effort you need to put in and that's where your decision comes into play. Don't complain because people upgraded to guns and you are still clinging to that knife.

Besides, what are we really talking about here? Selling junk? Moving action bars? Raid frames? Macros? Or do you think we are talking about claim bots and spell automation? Because one is most certainly an interface improvement to enhance the player's QoL, and one is simply to cheat. No one that advocates add ons to enhance the user experience is suggesting that cheating is something SE should facilitate.

ChaChaJaJa wrote:
I needed expansions. And buying the whole game was the same price or cheaper than buying the expansions piecemeal.


Why you did what you did wasn't the point I was trying to make anyway. The point I was trying to make is that SE makes it as easy as possible to upgrade if you wish it. Download a torrent, borrow a disc from a friend, pick up a cheap used one on ebay, it doesn't matter. Your codes were your codes and you only "had" to buy them once. Those still clinging to their fat Ps2's long after even Sony abandoned them had no reason not to upgrade other than they liked the inferior gaming experience the PS2 afforded them.(and don't try to argue that it wasn't inferior, after playing on PC for a year or two I loaded up my Ps2 to update it "just in case"... No clue how I managed to play through that pixelation and that lag.)
#119 Dec 19 2012 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
I wish I had a sock account so I could participate and take sides. As it is I'm probably borderline between admin and an *** abusing his power

You do, and you are.


I try not to but sometimes people are WRONG on teh internetz!

And thanks, I Smiley: inlove you too Rinsui.

Edited, Dec 19th 2012 2:52pm by Wint
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#120 Dec 19 2012 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
334 posts
ChaChaJaJa wrote:
I understand your point that it's a choice to play on one system vs. the other and you get what you get. Choose the gun or the knife. I get it. But to say that the gun is only a QoL improvement over the knife and nothing more. Rocks in your @#%^ing head if you think that.

Torrence wrote:
Except that it is. Both can make you equally dead. You can kill someone with a knife, or you can kill someone with a gun. Does one require more precision, practice, and finesse to do it from a distance? Yes. Why? Because one can accept enhancements\is already an enhanced tool and one cannot. Rocks in YOUR head if you can't understand that. Just like both console and PC can bring you a gaming experience - the only difference being the level of effort you need to put in and that's where your decision comes into play.


Are you serious? You can have the knife. I'll take the gun. We'll start at 50 paces. I win 100/100 times. Stop being a moron. The reason they don't issue swords to infantry anymore is because guns are more efficient killing machines. My argument is that playing on a PC provides an advantage. Having rangefinder and spellcast are an advantage. The PS2 never beats windower unless the person using the PC is inept. The best the PS2 can hope for is break even. Because spellcast and rangefinder basically create 100% efficiency.

Torrence wrote:
Don't complain because people upgraded to guns and you are still clinging to that knife.


I'm really not. Please learn to read. If you'll kindly scroll up you'll notice that I play on a PC now. Contrary to what you might believe, I didn't always have that option. Never once did I say I preferred being on a PS2. And when I was stuck on PS2, I was fully aware of how much better the other side had it, both in QoL and in efficiency...

Torrence wrote:
Besides, what are we really talking about here? Selling junk? Moving action bars? Raid frames? Macros? Or do you think we are talking about claim bots and spell automation? Because one is most certainly an interface improvement to enhance the player's QoL, and one is simply to cheat. No one that advocates add ons to enhance the user experience is suggesting that cheating is something SE should facilitate.


Since I keep referencing the same two add-ons as examples, it should be pretty clear what the @#%^ I am talking about. And they certainly are QoL enhancements. I never said they weren't. But they have the additional distinction of ALSO PROVIDING A CLEAR BOOST TO EFFICIENCY WHICH IS AN OBVIOUS ADVANTAGE. What I am saying isn't an opinion. It's factual. It can be backed up with data. Evaluate the same RNG or BLM with a parser. Run two trials; one with spellcast/rangefinder, and one without. Compare their DoT. The one using the add-ons will win decisively every single time. It's not a @#%^ing opinion any more than gravity is an opinion. It's observable.

Again, I repeat, I am not saying these add-ons are bad or cheating. I never said as much anywhere in any of my posts. I said they provide an advantage and I said I understand why console players were frustrated by it. When I started playing XI, I didn't have a PC so it wasn't an option for me. I was frustrated. I didn't blame anyone. I was just observing the obvious.

Torrence wrote:
Why you did what you did wasn't the point I was trying to make anyway. The point I was trying to make is that SE makes it as easy as possible to upgrade if you wish it. Download a torrent, borrow a disc from a friend, pick up a cheap used one on ebay, it doesn't matter. Your codes were your codes and you only "had" to buy them once. Those still clinging to their fat Ps2's long after even Sony abandoned them had no reason not to upgrade other than they liked the inferior gaming experience the PS2 afforded them.(and don't try to argue that it wasn't inferior, after playing on PC for a year or two I loaded up my Ps2 to update it "just in case"... No clue how I managed to play through that pixelation and that lag.)


Orrr, they didn't have a computer at the time and couldn't afford one. I bought my PS2 for $200 shortly after RoTZ was released. I did so because I could buy a PS2 for roughly a third of what I would have paid for a computer at the time. It was a financial consideration. I didn't own a computer until several years later. I'm sorry the fact that I was a poor 22 yr old is so offensive to you /facepalm....


Edit: Added a quote for clarity

Edited, Dec 19th 2012 4:46pm by ChaChaJaJa
____________________________
BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#121 Dec 19 2012 at 5:42 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Wint wrote:

And thanks, I Smiley: inlove you too Rinsui.


You'll get over it.
After a couple of years.
Smiley: nod

1 2 3 Next »
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (18)