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Alpha coming to a close (soon)Follow

#1 Dec 12 2012 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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Alpha Tester Recruitment Closing Today (12/12/2012)
As of December 12, 2012 (Wednesday) 11:00 p.m. (PST), we will no longer be accepting applications for FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn alpha testers. The final alpha tester selection will be conducted on December 17, and notification emails will be sent shortly thereafter.

Proceed to the Alpha Test Application Site.

* The alpha test is scheduled to conclude in late December, 2012.


Via, http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/index.html


It says that the Alpha process will end in late December. I can't wait for the PS3 Beta to open up. Even if I don't get in. Ill be so freakin excited to know that its happening. Anyway I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention.
#2 Dec 12 2012 at 9:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?
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#3 Dec 12 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Default
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thats a pretty fast alpha for an mmo.. sooo beta in jaunary then? or is it gonan take them montsh to go trhough the feedback and get the allpha to "beta worthy" first?
#4 Dec 12 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
thats a pretty fast alpha for an mmo.. sooo beta in jaunary then? or is it gonan take them montsh to go trhough the feedback and get the allpha to "beta worthy" first?


Well considering that after the first stage of world wide alpha invites went out they had the game running well enough to support 1000 people in a single zone, I'd say they probably got the stress test they wanted. I expect the second wave with the new server was to test new sign ups. The additional waves are probably to get more people in the existing worlds to test max pop. They did say they were going to test merging servers as well I believe so that will probably be the last thing.
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#5 Dec 12 2012 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#6 Dec 12 2012 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?


All that was said was "We will try our best to include our more dedicated players in the Beta."

There's absolutely no guarantee, and I highly doubt they would prioritize it that way.

Quote:
thats a pretty fast alpha for an mmo.. sooo beta in jaunary then? or is it gonan take them montsh to go trhough the feedback and get the allpha to "beta worthy" first?


Well, not really, if you hear Yoshi-P tell it. According to his latest letter, hes constantly receiving feedback like "This could have been the beta" and "Go to beta already, it's awesome."

Edited, Dec 12th 2012 11:11am by Louiscool
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#7 Dec 12 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Wint wrote:
Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?


All that was said was "We will try our best to include our more dedicated players in the Beta."

There's absolutely no guarantee, and I highly doubt they would prioritize it that way.

Quote:
thats a pretty fast alpha for an mmo.. sooo beta in jaunary then? or is it gonan take them montsh to go trhough the feedback and get the allpha to "beta worthy" first?


Well, not really, if you hear Yoshi-P tell it. According to his latest letter, hes constantly receiving feedback like "This could have been the beta" and "Go to beta already, it's awesome."


The first thing relieves me. As must as I sympathize with the people who really want to play, I think it's the feedback from those who aren't as excited about the game that will be the most meaningful.

The second thing scares me. Constantly receiving that kind of feedback is exactly what happened with 1.0. Players tend to rush to judgment without considering how they're going to feel about the game 3 months down the line.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#8 Dec 12 2012 at 10:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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For the record I'm fine with Legacy members not getting preference, some of those whiny souls over on the official forums irritate the **** out of me with their entitlement. A special chocobo and permanent reduction in subscription fees aren't enough for them?
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#9 Dec 12 2012 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dammit, how do you rate down a moderator?
I mean, I jumped on the legacy bandwagon myself just in time without even re-installing the game.
Don't even pretend to think some yellow chick and a fee reduction would cut it for the likes of me.
I DEMAND preferential treatment. And my Opo-Opo crown. Lackey! Bring me my that crown.
And wife, bring me... oh, forget it. Just undress.
#10 Dec 12 2012 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Wint wrote:
Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?


All that was said was "We will try our best to include our more dedicated players in the Beta."

There's absolutely no guarantee, and I highly doubt they would prioritize it that way.

Quote:
thats a pretty fast alpha for an mmo.. sooo beta in jaunary then? or is it gonan take them montsh to go trhough the feedback and get the allpha to "beta worthy" first?


Well, not really, if you hear Yoshi-P tell it. According to his latest letter, hes constantly receiving feedback like "This could have been the beta" and "Go to beta already, it's awesome."


The first thing relieves me. As must as I sympathize with the people who really want to play, I think it's the feedback from those who aren't as excited about the game that will be the most meaningful.

The second thing scares me. Constantly receiving that kind of feedback is exactly what happened with 1.0. Players tend to rush to judgment without considering how they're going to feel about the game 3 months down the line.



the sad thing about beats is that 95% of the ppl in them are just playing the game normally like its a demo and not actually TESTING it.. the point of a beta is the TRY to BREAK the game and report its flaws/whats wrong with it especially if you succeed in breaking it lol... not to just run around, playing and having fun like its a free demo. and im sure ppl that makes comments like "its fine" "it should be in beta already" "just release it now" are those ppl who are playing and not testing

Edited, Dec 12th 2012 11:06am by DuoMaxwellxx
#11 Dec 12 2012 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...

I mean Im sure NO dev releases a game they KNOW sucks/wasnt ready when they released it... Im sure the devs who released 1.0 thought the game was perfectly fine in their eyes when they brought it out.. I dont think any dev is gonna purposely/knowingly release garbage lol
#12 Dec 12 2012 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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a beta is the TRY to BEAK the game


Rest assured:
I always try to beak my games.
I also beak my cereals.
I'm a chocobo.

Edited, Dec 12th 2012 12:00pm by Rinsui
#13 Dec 12 2012 at 10:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
the sad thing about [betas] is that 95% of the ppl in them are just playing the game normally like its a demo and not actually TESTING it.. the point of a beta is the TRY to BEAK the game and report its flaws/whats wrong with it especially if you succeed in breaking it lol... not to just run around, playing and having fun like its a free demo.


Those bastards! And after all SE pays them for their time, too!
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#14 Dec 12 2012 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Those bastards! And after all SE pays them for their time, too!

Chicks these days. I tell you: No beaks, no loyalty.

Quote:
I mean Im sure NO dev releases a game they KNOW sucks/wasnt ready when they released it... Im sure the devs who released 1.0 thought the game was perfectly fine in their eyes when they brought it out.. I dont think any dev is gonna purposely/knowingly release garbage lol

Uh. That's pretty optimistic.

Edited, Dec 12th 2012 12:08pm by Rinsui
#15 Dec 12 2012 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Wint wrote:
Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?


All that was said was "We will try our best to include our more dedicated players in the Beta."

There's absolutely no guarantee, and I highly doubt they would prioritize it that way.

Quote:
thats a pretty fast alpha for an mmo.. sooo beta in jaunary then? or is it gonan take them montsh to go trhough the feedback and get the allpha to "beta worthy" first?


Well, not really, if you hear Yoshi-P tell it. According to his latest letter, hes constantly receiving feedback like "This could have been the beta" and "Go to beta already, it's awesome."


The first thing relieves me. As must as I sympathize with the people who really want to play, I think it's the feedback from those who aren't as excited about the game that will be the most meaningful.

The second thing scares me. Constantly receiving that kind of feedback is exactly what happened with 1.0. Players tend to rush to judgment without considering how they're going to feel about the game 3 months down the line.



the sad thing about beats is that 95% of the ppl in them are just playing the game normally like its a demo and not actually TESTING it.. the point of a beta is the TRY to BREAK the game and report its flaws/whats wrong with it especially if you succeed in breaking it lol... not to just run around, playing and having fun like its a free demo. and im sure ppl that makes comments like "its fine" "it should be in beta already" "just release it now" are those ppl who are playing and not testing

Edited, Dec 12th 2012 11:06am by DuoMaxwellxx


Well, to be fair, playign the content normally, and regularly, IS testing. I'm sure they have specific things (as Yoshi-P said) that are scheduled to try and break it, like everyone try to buy something from the AH at once, or everyone log in at the same time.

He said that he expected about 20% testers to continue to play, but was shocked that it was about 40-50%. I don't think this is a drill people. I think 2.0 is the real deal.
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#16 Dec 12 2012 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
I'm sure they have specific things (as Yoshi-P said) that are scheduled to try and break it, like everyone try to buy something from the AH at once

What is this AH you speak of?
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#17 Dec 12 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...

I mean Im sure NO dev releases a game they KNOW sucks/wasnt ready when they released it... Im sure the devs who released 1.0 thought the game was perfectly fine in their eyes when they brought it out.. I dont think any dev is gonna purposely/knowingly release garbage lol


The thing is, most game designers don't actually consider the feedback they get up to the point of saturation. Sometimes they'll hear two conflicting complaints and decide to just ignore it. Other times a dozen players will have the same basic complaint, but each will instead offer a suggestion about how to improve the game. Rather than seeing that a dozen people think that combat is too slow, they see a dozen conflicting ideas.

How many things actually get fixed between a beta and release? Maybe about 5% of the things that players identify as needing a fix? And then you have the fact that a lot of complaints just get ignored--even by the players-- as theoretical problems. Players have pretty low standards for a good MMO in theory, because they brush off major design flaws as inevitable features of MMOs. They don't know any better because they haven't seen better and haven't spent much time trying to imagine better. But that doesn't mean that it will keep them playing, unfortunately. FFXIV could be one of the best games on the market and still be a financial failure. How many of the major MMO releases in recent history are actually maintaining a subscription service model?

When you no longer have any solutions for any of the fundamental complaints that at least 2 players are raising, and you've already addressed most of the complaints--that's when you release a game that is on life support. SE's surely getting a TON of positive feedback... from Japanese players. But if they ignore the complaints from U.S. players, they better hope that the Japanese playerbase is enough to maintain the game.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#18 Dec 12 2012 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.
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#19 Dec 12 2012 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.


Imagine yourself a rate up for that one.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#20 Dec 12 2012 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.



my point was im sure the devs already believed/though 1.0 WAS in a great state to get rave reviews... Im pretty sure when they released it they didnt say "I know this game is gonna get panned or reviews are gonna give it 3/10 all across the board but lets release it anyway!!!"
#21 Dec 12 2012 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.



my point was im sure the devs already believed/though 1.0 WAS in a great state to get rave reviews... Im pretty sure when they released it they didnt say "I know this game is gonna get panned or reviews are gonna give it 3/10 all across the board but lets release it anyway!!!"


That should have been a clue then. It's arrogance that made them think they can get away with it, and they're getting burned for it. They absolutely cannot release this game until it is ready, as it is their one chance might be over for some people.
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#22 Dec 12 2012 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.


Imagine yourself a rate up for that one.


I rated myself up once and then since you agreed with me and I got off early from work today, I rated you up 3 times.
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"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
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Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#23 Dec 12 2012 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.



my point was im sure the devs already believed/though 1.0 WAS in a great state to get rave reviews... Im pretty sure when they released it they didnt say "I know this game is gonna get panned or reviews are gonna give it 3/10 all across the board but lets release it anyway!!!"


That should have been a clue then. It's arrogance that made them think they can get away with it, and they're getting burned for it. They absolutely cannot release this game until it is ready, as it is their one chance might be over for some people.



im missing something, care to point out how the example Ive given shows the devs as being arrogant?
#24 Dec 12 2012 at 3:40 PM Rating: Good
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Perhaps it was their disregard to see the awful issues that plagued 1.0 for the sake of shoving it out the doors to harvest their money crop they must have assumed would come in just nicely due to the title of Final Fantasy. This however bit them in the behinds quite severely and thus 2.0 was conceived. THEY may have thought the game was just fine... But THEY are not the ones giving the company money lol... it is the player base and they were not being listened to because they wanted the game released asap.

I kinda feel that the devs knew the game was meh... but the old higher up (before Yoshi) made it impossible to fix things because he was probably so deadline oriented.
#25 Dec 12 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Default
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There was no arrogance in 1.0's launch. SE had almost no major titles for that fiscal year so a FF MMO (given surge in MMO popularity) would more than likely have been the best bet.

You had the guy in charge (Tanaka) saying it's not ready and they need more time for it so...I don't think it was arrogance it was more of poor business move. **** they even coded a temporary battle system for us to test since that alpha version wasn't even ready lol.

#26 Dec 12 2012 at 4:13 PM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
I'm sure they have specific things (as Yoshi-P said) that are scheduled to try and break it, like everyone try to buy something from the AH at once

What is this AH you speak of?


Can't tell if sarcastic or genuine question.

The 1.0 launch came off as arrogant, but it was definitely much more of a mistake made while under fiscal year pressure.
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#27 Dec 12 2012 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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WFOAssassin wrote:

Quote:
Alpha Tester Recruitment Closing Today (12/12/2012)
As of December 12, 2012 (Wednesday) 11:00 p.m. (PST), we will no longer be accepting applications for FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn alpha testers. The final alpha tester selection will be conducted on December 17, and notification emails will be sent shortly thereafter.

Proceed to the Alpha Test Application Site.

* The alpha test is scheduled to conclude in late December, 2012.


Via, http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/index.html


It says that the Alpha process will end in late December. I can't wait for the PS3 Beta to open up. Even if I don't get in. Ill be so freakin excited to know that its happening. Anyway I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention.


Wint wrote:
Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?


It's been a long timing waiting for the ps3. If I don't reach beta I'll...I'll...have to wait some more.
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#28 Dec 12 2012 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
WFOAssassin wrote:

Quote:
Alpha Tester Recruitment Closing Today (12/12/2012)
As of December 12, 2012 (Wednesday) 11:00 p.m. (PST), we will no longer be accepting applications for FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn alpha testers. The final alpha tester selection will be conducted on December 17, and notification emails will be sent shortly thereafter.

Proceed to the Alpha Test Application Site.

* The alpha test is scheduled to conclude in late December, 2012.


Via, http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/index.html


It says that the Alpha process will end in late December. I can't wait for the PS3 Beta to open up. Even if I don't get in. Ill be so freakin excited to know that its happening. Anyway I wanted to bring this to everyone's attention.


Wint wrote:
Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?


It's been a long timing waiting for the ps3. If I don't reach beta I'll...I'll...have to wait some more.



I could see them having as many people on the PS3 Beta as possible. They may even have PS3 n the PS3 server for a while before they merge the PC and PS3 servers for a final Beta. This would allow for more people at one time. I hope I don't have to keep waiting, I want it now!
#29 Dec 12 2012 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.



my point was im sure the devs already believed/though 1.0 WAS in a great state to get rave reviews... Im pretty sure when they released it they didnt say "I know this game is gonna get panned or reviews are gonna give it 3/10 all across the board but lets release it anyway!!!"


That should have been a clue then. It's arrogance that made them think they can get away with it, and they're getting burned for it. They absolutely cannot release this game until it is ready, as it is their one chance might be over for some people.



im missing something, care to point out how the example Ive given shows the devs as being arrogant?


Your example is at best inaccurate. I'm guessing the Devs were screaming at the top of their lungs that the game wasn't ready for launch, and they (the they I'm talking about are the big wigs at SE) said (in their arrogance), "It's an FF game, people won't care!" even though the amount of wailing on the alpha forums (reportedly) was quite loud that the game should NOT be released in it's current state. I never said devs were arrogant, maybe not even Tanaka, but someone who greenlit the launch clearly was ignoring the obvious signs.
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
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Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#30 Dec 12 2012 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.



my point was im sure the devs already believed/though 1.0 WAS in a great state to get rave reviews... Im pretty sure when they released it they didnt say "I know this game is gonna get panned or reviews are gonna give it 3/10 all across the board but lets release it anyway!!!"


That should have been a clue then. It's arrogance that made them think they can get away with it, and they're getting burned for it. They absolutely cannot release this game until it is ready, as it is their one chance might be over for some people.



im missing something, care to point out how the example Ive given shows the devs as being arrogant?


Your example is at best inaccurate. I'm guessing the Devs were screaming at the top of their lungs that the game wasn't ready for launch, and they (the they I'm talking about are the big wigs at SE) said (in their arrogance), "It's an FF game, people won't care!" even though the amount of wailing on the alpha forums (reportedly) was quite loud that the game should NOT be released in it's current state. I never said devs were arrogant, maybe not even Tanaka, but someone who greenlit the launch clearly was ignoring the obvious signs.


ok so lets say thats exactly what happened. the devs knew it wasnt ready, the big wigs told em to do it anyway despite the devs telling them it wasnt ready to be released.... ok so:

big wigs: release the games

devs: no we shouldnt its not ready to be released in its current state.

big wigs: I dont care release it anyway

devs release it. Game fails dramatically

big wigs: youre all fired


ummm thats legal? If so its a good thing Im not in Japan because Im sure had something like that happened in the US. the guy who fired me would either be re compensating me or giving me my job back.
#31 Dec 12 2012 at 9:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's perfectly legal. Fair? No. And it happens in business all the time.
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#32 Dec 12 2012 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.



my point was im sure the devs already believed/though 1.0 WAS in a great state to get rave reviews... Im pretty sure when they released it they didnt say "I know this game is gonna get panned or reviews are gonna give it 3/10 all across the board but lets release it anyway!!!"


That should have been a clue then. It's arrogance that made them think they can get away with it, and they're getting burned for it. They absolutely cannot release this game until it is ready, as it is their one chance might be over for some people.



im missing something, care to point out how the example Ive given shows the devs as being arrogant?


Your example is at best inaccurate. I'm guessing the Devs were screaming at the top of their lungs that the game wasn't ready for launch, and they (the they I'm talking about are the big wigs at SE) said (in their arrogance), "It's an FF game, people won't care!" even though the amount of wailing on the alpha forums (reportedly) was quite loud that the game should NOT be released in it's current state. I never said devs were arrogant, maybe not even Tanaka, but someone who greenlit the launch clearly was ignoring the obvious signs.


ok so lets say thats exactly what happened. the devs knew it wasnt ready, the big wigs told em to do it anyway despite the devs telling them it wasnt ready to be released.... ok so:

big wigs: release the games

devs: no we shouldnt its not ready to be released in its current state.

big wigs: I dont care release it anyway

devs release it. Game fails dramatically

big wigs: youre all fired


ummm thats legal? If so its a good thing Im not in Japan because Im sure had something like that happened in the US. the guy who fired me would either be re compensating me or giving me my job back.


Ill go off and use another game as reference here.

Zipper Interactive, the creators of the Socom: U.S. Navy Seals series for the Playstation 2 (one game on the PS3) Socom was a HUGE success on the PS2. It was a sweet Single player, TPS, that used team based tactics, mission planning, stealth, and teamwork as a method of doing Seal missions. It also used a headset to send commands to your team, that would be followed. Commands like, "Move to _______," "Engage Target," or "Breech, Bang, Clear." It also had an online multiplayer that was far beyond awesome. It was the start of online counsel gaming, hands down. Flash forward to Socom 3. THe game was nothing like the first two games. Lots of issues and it moved away from the successful formula.

Fast forwar, to Socom 4, 10years after the first Socom game. They had a Beta. People complained of the charts. It was nothing like the original game and the server issues, UI, game breaking bugs were everywhere. Fastforward 2 weeks after the beta, the game was release. HORRIBLE GAME and IDEA. Fast forward 6 months after the release. Zipper Interactive is disband and seperated, employees find new jobs and Socom 4 is quoted as losing all technical support from the developers and IT team that was patching and fixing bugs.

Relationship to FFXI: 1.0? Game was growing problems. The game was having problems. The Beta was insanely bad with TONS of negative feedback. The game was still released by SCEA...6 months after release the team was fired and the game lost all its support from SCEA. Sounds like Sony don't give a crap unless they are making money. It has happened before and it will happen again.

Thanks for letting me rant about my beloved Socom game /cry Socom 1 and 2 changed my life the way FFXI changed my life. /sigh, to love.
#33 Dec 13 2012 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
ummm thats legal? If so its a good thing Im not in Japan

Now that's one point where Japan and the US (and the rest of the capitalist world) don't differ one bit.
If anything, social security in the US is even less.
#34 Dec 13 2012 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
ummm thats legal? If so its a good thing Im not in Japan

Now that's one point where Japan and the US (and the rest of the capitalist world) don't differ one bit.
If anything, social security in the US is even less.


The Japanese work culture is much different. They wouldn't (and didn't) "fire" the developers, they reassign them, or ask them to step down, but never fire as that would be shameful and admitting failure.

Also, here's a particularly funny quote from the Alpha of 1.0:

Quote:
- The Producer has to do it himself, right? (laughs) Have there been any particular opinions from the players that have left an impression?

Komoto: The alpha version is still focusing on basic controls and movement, so there have been comments that the response time is slow, or such and such command needs fixing. We expected some control issues and let people know on the tester site to tell us, for example, if they were difficult to understand without a tutorial. As we expected, many people confirmed that they are tough to grasp. This is something we feel needs to be addressed before release.

Tanaka: We are diligently investigating any issues that get a lot of feedback. One interesting thing to note is the difference in the amount of feedback posted to the Japan, North America and Europe tester forums. Japan has about 5000 posts. Europe and North America have a whole digit more with 19,000 and 25,000, respectively. The amount of testers in each region is the same, but we are seeing 5 NA posts for every single JP post, which really highlights the cultural differences of the regions. Also, North American posters tend to write many more suggestions. It's like, "Listen to my ideas!" (laughs)


Edited, Dec 13th 2012 9:21am by Louiscool
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#35 Dec 13 2012 at 8:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
We are diligently investigating any issues that get a lot of feedback. One interesting thing to note is the difference in the amount of feedback posted to the Japan, North America and Europe tester forums. Japan has about 5000 posts. Europe and North America have a whole digit more with 19,000 and 25,000, respectively. The amount of testers in each region is the same, but we are seeing 5 NA posts for every single JP post, which really highlights the cultural differences of the regions. Also, North American posters tend to write many more suggestions. It's like, "Listen to my ideas!" (laughs)


Quote:
Other times a dozen players will have the same basic complaint, but each will instead offer a suggestion about how to improve the game. Rather than seeing that a dozen people think that combat is too slow, they see a dozen conflicting ideas.
...
SE's surely getting a TON of positive feedback... from Japanese players. But if they ignore the complaints from U.S. players, they better hope that the Japanese playerbase is enough to maintain the game.


Fingers crossed that they dissect that U.S. and European feedback for the crucial subtext. "Listen to my ideas!" is the U.S. way of saying, "This needs work." (I believe the JP way of saying it is /silence.)
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#36 Dec 13 2012 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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WFOAssassin wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I'm sure they were primarily conducting the alpha for stress testing given their recent comments on player population and playability. Since they've redesigned most of the areas, it'd be a pretty standard step in the testing. Hopefully in the beta they will be a lot more receptive to design feedback. And though I know many of the fans here really can't wait until release, I hope for the sake of THE GAME and all the potential subscribers that they take their time and don't release it until it's in a state that it gets rave reviews.



i never understand why ppl say devs should take their time and not release a game until its in a state that it gets rave reviews...


See FFXIV 1.0.



my point was im sure the devs already believed/though 1.0 WAS in a great state to get rave reviews... Im pretty sure when they released it they didnt say "I know this game is gonna get panned or reviews are gonna give it 3/10 all across the board but lets release it anyway!!!"


That should have been a clue then. It's arrogance that made them think they can get away with it, and they're getting burned for it. They absolutely cannot release this game until it is ready, as it is their one chance might be over for some people.



im missing something, care to point out how the example Ive given shows the devs as being arrogant?


Your example is at best inaccurate. I'm guessing the Devs were screaming at the top of their lungs that the game wasn't ready for launch, and they (the they I'm talking about are the big wigs at SE) said (in their arrogance), "It's an FF game, people won't care!" even though the amount of wailing on the alpha forums (reportedly) was quite loud that the game should NOT be released in it's current state. I never said devs were arrogant, maybe not even Tanaka, but someone who greenlit the launch clearly was ignoring the obvious signs.


ok so lets say thats exactly what happened. the devs knew it wasnt ready, the big wigs told em to do it anyway despite the devs telling them it wasnt ready to be released.... ok so:

big wigs: release the games

devs: no we shouldnt its not ready to be released in its current state.

big wigs: I dont care release it anyway

devs release it. Game fails dramatically

big wigs: youre all fired


ummm thats legal? If so its a good thing Im not in Japan because Im sure had something like that happened in the US. the guy who fired me would either be re compensating me or giving me my job back.


Ill go off and use another game as reference here.

Zipper Interactive, the creators of the Socom: U.S. Navy Seals series for the Playstation 2 (one game on the PS3) Socom was a HUGE success on the PS2. It was a sweet Single player, TPS, that used team based tactics, mission planning, stealth, and teamwork as a method of doing Seal missions. It also used a headset to send commands to your team, that would be followed. Commands like, "Move to _______," "Engage Target," or "Breech, Bang, Clear." It also had an online multiplayer that was far beyond awesome. It was the start of online counsel gaming, hands down. Flash forward to Socom 3. THe game was nothing like the first two games. Lots of issues and it moved away from the successful formula.

Fast forwar, to Socom 4, 10years after the first Socom game. They had a Beta. People complained of the charts. It was nothing like the original game and the server issues, UI, game breaking bugs were everywhere. Fastforward 2 weeks after the beta, the game was release. HORRIBLE GAME and IDEA. Fast forward 6 months after the release. Zipper Interactive is disband and seperated, employees find new jobs and Socom 4 is quoted as losing all technical support from the developers and IT team that was patching and fixing bugs.

Relationship to FFXI: 1.0? Game was growing problems. The game was having problems. The Beta was insanely bad with TONS of negative feedback. The game was still released by SCEA...6 months after release the team was fired and the game lost all its support from SCEA. Sounds like Sony don't give a crap unless they are making money. It has happened before and it will happen again.

Thanks for letting me rant about my beloved Socom game /cry Socom 1 and 2 changed my life the way FFXI changed my life. /sigh, to love.



actually Socom's single player wasnt sweet until Socom 3... (1 and 2 single player were so awful i couldnt force myself to complete them... multiplayer though was a blast on 1, 2 3 and combined assault)..... also i like how you went straight from 3 to 4... what about confrontation? (which also was horrible) and as for socom 4 I LOVED the single player... multiplayer on the other hand... garbage lol
#37 Dec 13 2012 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Tanaka was demoted back to FFXI over 1.0 - this is a fact. He has since stepped down for health reasons, which is how someone is allowed to gracefully retire instead of being fired for incompetence in Japan. It saves face. (In the US, people say they are stepping down to spend more time with their family. It's the same BS, just with a different explanation.)

Yoshi P himself has said that 1.0's release was based off arrogance from the upper echelons of SE - this is a fact. They were under an incorrect assumption that they should release their game before WoW's Cataclysm came out for best sales, regardless of the state of the game. The actual developers were just as worried as the beta testers that the game was not ready for prime time.

Arrogance also did come from some early development decisions, such as choosing to use SE's own Crystal Tools engine instead of a proven game engine.

I have hope for 2.0 because those three giant mistakes are already not being repeated. Tanaka has retired, Yoshi P is in charge. Yoshi P isn't afraid to **** heads with the big wigs at SE over deadlines. They are using a much better engine than Crystal Tools for the PC version. (They may still be using it for PS3 version, but XIII and its spinoffs run okay on it so it's not as big a deal.)
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#38 Dec 13 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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My greatest concern is this: FFXI was released at the high of the PS2 generation in 2002-03 and we get the "PS2 limitations" that plagued us. Now the game is about to be released when the PS3 is becoming ancient; OK, more like a middle-aged man now but it's getting there. Guess what kind of "PS3 limitations" will we get?

I'm actually half serious about this since the PS3 only has 256MB of RAM and 256MB of GRAM even if it's extremely fast at loading stuff compare to PC.

Quote:

The Japanese work culture is much different. They wouldn't (and didn't) "fire" the developers, they reassign them, or ask them to step down, but never fire as that would be shameful and admitting failure.


I guess it's slightly different but US and JP companies would be doing the exact same thing. Developers came up with the project. Management propose the project to the shareholders/investors. Project gets the green light. Then interferences, deadline, directions, management...etc caused the game to not giving the amount of $$$ everyone is expected. Investors got angry. Management started using their finger pointing skills to the max. Eventually, the development team and its projects are considered as failures and would be scrapped. Its members got reshuffled into other teams, made redundant or just fired. Its resources/work/future projects got shelved somewhere deep and dark. Management wrote it off as a stumble but they are still doing great anyway and should have the shareholders' complete confidence.
#39 Dec 13 2012 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
My greatest concern is this: FFXI was released at the high of the PS2 generation in 2002-03 and we get the "PS2 limitations" that plagued us. Now the game is about to be released when the PS3 is becoming ancient; OK, more like a middle-aged man now but it's getting there. Guess what kind of "PS3 limitations" will we get?

I'm actually half serious about this since the PS3 only has 256MB of RAM and 256MB of GRAM even if it's extremely fast at loading stuff compare to PC.


I wouldn't be overly concerned. Most of the processing power goes towards graphics. The graphics aren't going to get much better than they are now (games getting dated in this regard is approaching a thing of the past). As for the actual gameplay stuff, the machinery tends to be so underutilized it's a joke. I bet they could run this game on an SNES if they went retro with the graphics.

Edited, Dec 13th 2012 10:08am by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#40 Dec 13 2012 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Wint wrote:
Thanks for posting that!

For some reason, the people in the official forums seem to think the legacy members are guaranteed a spot in the Beta (PC I assume). Anyone know if there is any meat to this rumor?


All that was said was "We will try our best to include our more dedicated players in the Beta."

There's absolutely no guarantee, and I highly doubt they would prioritize it that way.

Quote:
thats a pretty fast alpha for an mmo.. sooo beta in jaunary then? or is it gonan take them montsh to go trhough the feedback and get the allpha to "beta worthy" first?


Well, not really, if you hear Yoshi-P tell it. According to his latest letter, hes constantly receiving feedback like "This could have been the beta" and "Go to beta already, it's awesome."

Edited, Dec 12th 2012 11:11am by Louiscool


In terms of polish, outstanding for an alpha game just needs minor tweaking....in terms of mechanics....yeah...............
#42 Dec 14 2012 at 5:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Banwawgwa wrote:
WOOOT! I just got my alpha invite today! So I hope I get a decent time in the game :P lol. This is so exciting. First alpha! I feel so top secret.... Not a soul can know the juicy deets I get from experience. Mwahahahaha!


First rule of alpha you've already failed lol. But good luck. Find those bugs.
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#43 Dec 14 2012 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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The code words I've heard bandied about in my linkshell is that they're alpha testing "My Little Pony Online Adventures II."
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#44 Dec 14 2012 at 7:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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See my new sticky. Not trying to be a richard, but seriously people. Read your NDA Smiley: smile
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#45 Dec 14 2012 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint, I'm pretty sure Darth Vader should be upright in your Avatar, not Yoda. I like your new sticky post. Thanks. To be honest though, I'm surprised more people have yet so say something stupid... or are you and other Admins, just that good and we never notice?
#46 Dec 14 2012 at 9:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've caught a dozen so far or so, which is what prompted the warning Smiley: grin
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The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#47 Dec 15 2012 at 4:42 AM Rating: Decent
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It's really not hard to have an NDA-safe discussion anyway. You can pretty much get away with murder if you choose your words with the slightest care. Especially considering we already have information from the developers and lots of knowledge about 1.0, anyone who wants to talk about alpha content only has to avoid making statements that are explicitly factual. Opinions like, "I really hoped for more strategic combat, but from what I've seen it's not looking good," are fair game. Smiley: sly
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#48 Dec 15 2012 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Opinions like, "I really hoped for more strategic combat, but from what I've seen it's not looking good," are fair game. Smiley: sly

Unfortunately for us, that 'opinion' is spot on Smiley: glare
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#49 Dec 16 2012 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Remember that the alpha is likely level capped, and surely what we've seen from the videos are in the lower levels and solo to boot. Once you reach higher level groups and have to party, they might introduce more strategic elements. (Even if it's just "This monster does a knockback move. Stand with your back to a wall or a tree!" - that's better than just standing there hacking something.)

FFXI had strategic combat primarily on boss fights, HNMs, and BCNM and KSNM fights. Remember having a THF flee pull Angra Manyu and Dynamis Lord to drag the dragons away? Remember kiting Chlevnik up and down the alleyway? Remember standing on the feet of dragons to stop Spike Flail? Remember coordinating magic bursts and skills on the giant turtles? BCNM fights also had gimmicks and special moves used by regular mobs, too. That one BCNM 60 fight with the coerl always gave us trouble, because you had to stun him based on whatever expression he was giving off in text.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#50 Dec 16 2012 at 12:17 PM Rating: Default
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I'm optimistic that there will be a little trick here and there to defeating certain mobs... that's never really been a problem for SE. That kind of strategy works just fine for a single player RPG that might get played for 100 hours. But in an MMO, one person in the alliance can look up the answer, tell you what to do, and bingo bongo bango, all sense of strategy is killed for everyone else. Chess just isn't chess if you have a computer tell you the best move to make.

If you're making a game that hopes to place the challenge in the strategy, you have to create problems that players really have to think about to overcome. They don't even have to be too brain-bustingly difficult considering they're making those decisions against the clock.

The problem is that the designers are so married to the basic MMO formula that they can't see how overly simplistic it is. When your game is one of pitting one HP bar against another, you're not setting your game up with the elements of a strategy game. Strategy games are all about effective allocation of resources. When you don't have many resources and/or the way they should be allocated is obvious, you don't have a strategy game.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#51 Dec 16 2012 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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So basically, you want an MMO version of Final Fantasy Tactics.
____________________________
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
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