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#52 Dec 16 2012 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm optimistic that there will be a little trick here and there to defeating certain mobs... that's never really been a problem for SE. That kind of strategy works just fine for a single player RPG that might get played for 100 hours. But in an MMO, one person in the alliance can look up the answer, tell you what to do, and bingo bongo bango, all sense of strategy is killed for everyone else. Chess just isn't chess if you have a computer tell you the best move to make.

If you're making a game that hopes to place the challenge in the strategy, you have to create problems that players really have to think about to overcome. They don't even have to be too brain-bustingly difficult considering they're making those decisions against the clock.

The problem is that the designers are so married to the basic MMO formula that they can't see how overly simplistic it is. When your game is one of pitting one HP bar against another, you're not setting your game up with the elements of a strategy game. Strategy games are all about effective allocation of resources. When you don't have many resources and/or the way they should be allocated is obvious, you don't have a strategy game.


I think an effective way to deal with some of the strategy would be insted of having "X ability happen at Y % of HP" would be to have a whole list of abilities that could happen. Lets say your fighting a dragon and at 50% hp it uses a breath attack, instead it could use its 25% 10% ability. Knowing what abilities your up aginst is one thing but never knowing when they will actually come up is another. This would be fun to me knowing that its not 100% scripted that X boss does X move at X %.
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#53 Dec 16 2012 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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huhwhat wrote:
Quote:
I'm optimistic that there will be a little trick here and there to defeating certain mobs... that's never really been a problem for SE. That kind of strategy works just fine for a single player RPG that might get played for 100 hours. But in an MMO, one person in the alliance can look up the answer, tell you what to do, and bingo bongo bango, all sense of strategy is killed for everyone else. Chess just isn't chess if you have a computer tell you the best move to make.

If you're making a game that hopes to place the challenge in the strategy, you have to create problems that players really have to think about to overcome. They don't even have to be too brain-bustingly difficult considering they're making those decisions against the clock.

The problem is that the designers are so married to the basic MMO formula that they can't see how overly simplistic it is. When your game is one of pitting one HP bar against another, you're not setting your game up with the elements of a strategy game. Strategy games are all about effective allocation of resources. When you don't have many resources and/or the way they should be allocated is obvious, you don't have a strategy game.


I think an effective way to deal with some of the strategy would be insted of having "X ability happen at Y % of HP" would be to have a whole list of abilities that could happen. Lets say your fighting a dragon and at 50% hp it uses a breath attack, instead it could use its 25% 10% ability. Knowing what abilities your up aginst is one thing but never knowing when they will actually come up is another. This would be fun to me knowing that its not 100% scripted that X boss does X move at X %.


Ironically people ******* about XI doing this on NMs that changed patterns once it hit a certain % so instead of using the regular ones, it will use x-x abilities more frequently and more randomly.

Bahamut for example only has a predetermined (Insert)Flare ability at certain %, but everything else was pretty much random, which is why you can easy wipe to some mobs in some fights if they're extra ******* i.e the Abyssea Amph can spam vermillion wind and auto wipe you or it'll never use it. People seem to hate "random" but still think you can make a varied boss fight without a sense of randomness or "set pattern."

#54 Dec 16 2012 at 4:49 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
So basically, you want an MMO version of Final Fantasy Tactics.


At this point I think all Kachi wants to do is complain and tell us how much better the game would be if they let him design it...
Think about it... no matter what you say to him, he pokes holes in it and tells you why it's no good.

To paraphrase Wint's sig...

The greatest trick the troll ever pulled was to convince the other forum posters that they weren't being trolled...
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You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#55 Dec 16 2012 at 5:31 PM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
So basically, you want an MMO version of Final Fantasy Tactics.


I think that would be a cool idea, but by no means the only viable direction.

ChaChaJaJa wrote:
catwho wrote:
So basically, you want an MMO version of Final Fantasy Tactics.


At this point I think all Kachi wants to do is complain and tell us how much better the game would be if they let him design it...
Think about it... no matter what you say to him, he pokes holes in it and tells you why it's no good.

To paraphrase Wint's sig...

The greatest trick the troll ever pulled was to convince the other forum posters that they weren't being trolled...


That's really uncalled for, aside from being completely wrong. I've vocally agreed with many things that others have shared on the forum regarding problems and possible solutions. Just because I'm opinionated and you don't like what I have to say doesn't make me a troll. It might mean you're overly sensitive to a little civil disagreement, though.

If you're trying to stir my ire, this is a good way to start. Judge me, put words in my mouth, accuse me of only having negative things to say, and call me a troll. If you ask me, the only person getting trolled in this thread is me, by you.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#56 Dec 16 2012 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
[1]That's really uncalled for, aside from being completely wrong. [2] I've vocally agreed with many things that others have shared on the forum regarding problems and possible solutions. [3] Just because I'm opinionated and you don't like what I have to say doesn't make me a troll. [4] It might mean you're overly sensitive to a little civil disagreement, though.

[5] If you're trying to stir my ire, this is a good way to start. [6] Judge me, [7] put words in my mouth, [8] accuse me of only having negative things to say, [9] and call me a troll. [10] If you ask me, the only person getting trolled in this thread is me, by you.


1. Maybe it's a little inflammatory, but from my perspective, it's not inaccurate.
2. I wasn't referring to you agreeing or disagreeing with people, I was referring to you constantly disagreeing with anyone who has anything positive to say about XIV or XI. The distinction is an important one.
3. That's not what I think makes you a troll. See #2. I'm not stating that you are a troll as much as I am raising the question based on your demeanor...
4. Not really. If I was, I certainly wouldn't subject myself to ZAM. That'd be a high degree of masochism.
5. Not concerned about this.
6. I am, but only based on your discussion. See #2.
7. I haven't unless it was tongue in cheek, and I think this audience is mature enough to recognize that. Other than that, all I have done is either quote you directly, or give my opinion about one of your posts in its entirety.
8. If the shoe fits... The only thing positive that you've said lately (strictly positive- without some sort of qualifier...) about either XI or XIV was in regards to the graphics. It makes me wonder why you hang out on the forums for a game that you feel so negatively about.
9. Honestly, this was largely tongue-in-cheek, but see #3 anyhow.
10. At this point, you're probably right, but only because I'm getting tired of having to sift past your countless negative or argumentative posts in every **** thread on these forums. Haven't you ever heard the old adage "If you don't have anything nice to say...". I know I'm not the only one because others have mentioned it. Perhaps you could tone it down a bit for everyone's sake. Or I could keep trolling you. Either works...


Edited, Dec 16th 2012 7:48pm by ChaChaJaJa
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BlueLand wrote:
You can always take a screen shot of the 1017 error and set it to your desktop background, its like playing FFXIV from work
#57 Dec 16 2012 at 8:01 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with everything ChaCha just said. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't mind you voicing your opinions. You just seem to do it with no real purpose in mind. I understand you have a right to voice your opinion however you want to, but to me, you come off as a whiny, bitter gamer who just wants to complain for no reason. I understand many people are upset about the original release of FFXIV. This is only my opinion and my take on you. I realize you probably don't care, but I wanted to voice my opinion.
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#58 Dec 16 2012 at 8:09 PM Rating: Good
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Final Fantasy Tactics Online >>>>> Any Final Fantasy Online :)

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#59 Dec 16 2012 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I think I get where Kachi's coming from. Everyone hyped up 1.0 so much and it turned out to be a dud until Tanaka was replaced and Yoshi P started tweaking things.

The thing is, the game that 1.0 turned into by update 1.23b was actually pretty **** fun for semi-casual players like me. If they manage to re-create that sense of fun while fixing the underlying problems with the engine that made it unplayable, they'll have a winning formula. That's why I'm optimistic.

That, and the crafting video has been naggingly reminding me of something, and I just realized what it is - they took a cue from The Sims, I think. And goodness knows I've wasted countless hours skilling crap up in The Sims!
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#60 Dec 17 2012 at 4:26 AM Rating: Default
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I'm always going to point out things that could be better and discuss how. It's what I do. If you can't tell the difference between constructive criticism and trolling/whining/complaining, then that's too bad for you, I guess. You'll just have to learn to deal with my "trolling," because it isn't going anywhere as long as I have something to say.

Rather than spin your little conspiracy about me being a secret troll, maybe you should go learn how to disagree with people more respectfully. In the future, if you don't like what I have to say, that's what the red arrow is for. Click away.

Edited, Dec 17th 2012 2:27am by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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