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Alpha Video #7 - Levequests and Party CombatFollow

#102 Dec 21 2012 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Maybe I'm just behind the times on this issue, but it has always seemed to me that solo players don't mind progressing at a slower rater than party players. FFXI took it to an unwelcome extreme because party play was ALREADY slow, and soloing seemed relatively impossible when it took 5 minutes to earn 200 XP.

Players may gripe about XP inequity but as long as they're able to progress at a reasonable rate it rarely has any actual affect on their enjoyment. Players understand that solo and party XP rates are and should be apples to oranges. Compare partying as DRG to RDM, for example, and players feel differently. Apples to apples, they want to be able to progress at a similar rate. Most people in XI weren't bothered at all that soloing wasn't as efficient as partying... they just wanted it to be viable.


I like a healthy mix of both, and completely agree. I enjoy soloing, love playing casually, but regularly want to party as well.

I dislike when soloing is as efficient as partying, because what's the point or dealing with other people for a minor gain. Even in FFXI, there were classes and levels that soloing had a perfect pace, even moreso with fields of valor.

I think the mistake in FFXIV was the way they structured levequests. Way too much exp and gil was given away through these if you levelinked and exploited the system (intentionally failing leves hat gave the best rewards), which was "balanced" by limiting how many you could do at a time.

FOV still had a limiter, but it was much more lax, while being pretty much the same thing as a levequest.
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#103 Dec 21 2012 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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We haven't seen enough of the skills and combat as a whole to agree with the pacing. They were tank and spanking with 3 out of 8 available jobs. There's also much not being spoken about such as the UI, the pacing (we really diddn't see a full fight, just clips) the skillbar (which I'm not happy about, honestly, the global cooldown looks clunky.

As far as the skill distribution. I donno. I happen to like the fact that I'm throwing my lance out at people. That's new and exciting to me. Diddn't watch Conjurer closely cause the skills weren't exactly representative of the fight. Archer looks good to me even at level 20.


Just to make sure we're clear, I was talking about GW2 with those statements, not FFXIV. I see plenty of potential for XIV's global cooldown to be an arbiter of strategic decision-making, rather than rapid and indiscriminant button-mashing. That will depend upon the individual viability of all those abilities, however. My hope is that they will make that effort, and every three seconds I am calculating, "Which ability should be next?" My suspicion is that they will give up on it because it's hard and players won't appreciate it at a glance, and the game will be the same boring button-mashing-fest as most MMOs on the market.

As for other things; we'll just have to agree to disagree. It irritates me when I come here to talk about FFXIV and people complain because they don't like what I have to say. I enjoy reading KaneKitty's comments for the record; they've been relevant and mostly on point. But I really don't care enough to get into a debate about so-and-so's comments being better than others. When someone is talking about FFXIV, their opinion is valid if not factually supported, and what I came here to be exposed to. When people start attacking each other without making a substantive counterargument, it adds nothing meaningful to the dialogue, and I can go anywhere else on the internet for that crap.
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#104je355804, Posted: Dec 23 2012 at 8:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A. Battles with Lemurs took about 2 hits x 6 mobs = 12 hits to wipe out 6 mobs at level 15 was it?
#105 Dec 23 2012 at 10:23 AM Rating: Default
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je355804 wrote:
A. Battles with Lemurs took about 2 hits x 6 mobs = 12 hits to wipe out 6 mobs at level 15 was it?

That is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. Seriously, raise the **** difficulty of individual battles, and if nothing else, let them drop more XP per battle. I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.

B. If the boss that is 200 feet tall has an epileptic seizure every time he's hit by "command pebble toss" I'm fricking out.

SE LISTEN YOU F-ING MORONS. YOU CAN'T OUT WoW WoW. STOPPPPPPP TRYING.


YOU SHOULD REALLY READ THE OTHER POSTS!

This is right under the video, and I posted it about 25 posts back in this thread...

* The battle system is currently undergoing significant revision, including changes to all damage algorithms and the claim system.

This one is about 20 posts back in this very thread...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/59211-7th-Alpha-video-Levequests-and-Party-Combat?p=923866&viewfull=1#post923866

Greetings!

In regards to all of the comments about how the enemies visibly react to player attacks, we'll be adjusting these animations around the time the Beta Test begins.

Specifically we are looking into addressing it in the following ways:
•Vary the damage animation according to the amount of damage inflicted.
•Tone down the damage animation for large monsters.


Edit: Fat fingers

Edited, Dec 23rd 2012 8:24am by LebargeX

Edited, Dec 23rd 2012 8:27am by LebargeX
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#106 Dec 23 2012 at 10:25 AM Rating: Decent
je355804 wrote:
A. Battles with Lemurs took about 2 hits x 6 mobs = 12 hits to wipe out 6 mobs at level 15 was it?

That is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. Seriously, raise the **** difficulty of individual battles, and if nothing else, let them drop more XP per battle. I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.

B. If the boss that is 200 feet tall has an epileptic seizure every time he's hit by "command pebble toss" I'm fricking out.

SE LISTEN YOU F-ING MORONS. YOU CAN'T OUT WoW WoW. STOPPPPPPP TRYING.


The character was 5 levels above the lemurs. That would have been EP in XI also. Calm down dude.
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#107 Dec 23 2012 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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je355804 wrote:
I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.


Herein lies the problem, the mobs really can't be tuned to be all that challenging due to scaling. It's the same problem you ran into if you played XI. Mobs that con 'Decent Challenge' would send you running for your mommy if you weren't [insert one of the 3-4 good solo jobs here]. SE needs to iron out the scaling of players vs mobs in their MMOs before they could hope to accomplish what you're asking for. I'd love to see it happen but given that we still have the same boring combat mechanics, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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#108 Dec 23 2012 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Just to make sure we're clear, I was talking about GW2 with those statements, not FFXIV. I see plenty of potential for XIV's global cooldown to be an arbiter of strategic decision-making, rather than rapid and indiscriminant button-mashing. That will depend upon the individual viability of all those abilities, however. My hope is that they will make that effort, and every three seconds I am calculating, "Which ability should be next?" My suspicion is that they will give up on it because it's hard and players won't appreciate it at a glance, and the game will be the same boring button-mashing-fest as most MMOs on the market.


From what we've seen in the videos, some spells and abilities inflict short term DoTs, and perhaps other status effects as well. I'd assume part of any strategy would be using those abilities, even if they don't do the most damage, to ensure the debuffs stay on the monster.
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#109 Dec 23 2012 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Just to make sure we're clear, I was talking about GW2 with those statements, not FFXIV. I see plenty of potential for XIV's global cooldown to be an arbiter of strategic decision-making, rather than rapid and indiscriminant button-mashing. That will depend upon the individual viability of all those abilities, however. My hope is that they will make that effort, and every three seconds I am calculating, "Which ability should be next?" My suspicion is that they will give up on it because it's hard and players won't appreciate it at a glance, and the game will be the same boring button-mashing-fest as most MMOs on the market.


From what we've seen in the videos, some spells and abilities inflict short term DoTs, and perhaps other status effects as well. I'd assume part of any strategy would be using those abilities, even if they don't do the most damage, to ensure the debuffs stay on the monster.


I would expect at least that much, but that's an example of general strategy. If a spell does 60 damage over time compared to spells that do 30 damage at once, then I'm always going to lead with the 60 damage DOT and then use my 30 damage spells until I can maybe use the 60 damage DOT again. That's what I'll do every time. A good strategy game is going to require decisions be based on dynamic factors (the efficient expense of resources in particular). "Which number is higher" isn't a particularly strategic challenge.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#110 Dec 23 2012 at 2:06 PM Rating: Default
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LebargeX wrote:
je355804 wrote:
A. Battles with Lemurs took about 2 hits x 6 mobs = 12 hits to wipe out 6 mobs at level 15 was it?

That is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. Seriously, raise the **** difficulty of individual battles, and if nothing else, let them drop more XP per battle. I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.

B. If the boss that is 200 feet tall has an epileptic seizure every time he's hit by "command pebble toss" I'm fricking out.

SE LISTEN YOU F-ING MORONS. YOU CAN'T OUT WoW WoW. STOPPPPPPP TRYING.


YOU SHOULD REALLY READ THE OTHER POSTS!

This is right under the video, and I posted it about 25 posts back in this thread...

* The battle system is currently undergoing significant revision, including changes to all damage algorithms and the claim system.

This one is about 20 posts back in this very thread...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/59211-7th-Alpha-video-Levequests-and-Party-Combat?p=923866&viewfull=1#post923866

Greetings!

In regards to all of the comments about how the enemies visibly react to player attacks, we'll be adjusting these animations around the time the Beta Test begins.

Specifically we are looking into addressing it in the following ways:
•Vary the damage animation according to the amount of damage inflicted.
•Tone down the damage animation for large monsters.


Edit: Fat fingers

Edited, Dec 23rd 2012 8:24am by LebargeX

Edited, Dec 23rd 2012 8:27am by LebargeX



Dude, are you seriously going to ridicule me for not reading over 100 posts?

Also, where are they addressing mobs at level 15 dropping like flies after being hit 2 times? Ohhh that's right, we're in the process of making this game the ultimate casual gamers experience.

Maybe I'll give GW2 a try, it's like the people over at SE really, reallllly just don't get it.
#111 Dec 23 2012 at 2:10 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
je355804 wrote:
I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.


Herein lies the problem, the mobs really can't be tuned to be all that challenging due to scaling. It's the same problem you ran into if you played XI. Mobs that con 'Decent Challenge' would send you running for your mommy if you weren't [insert one of the 3-4 good solo jobs here]. SE needs to iron out the scaling of players vs mobs in their MMOs before they could hope to accomplish what you're asking for. I'd love to see it happen but given that we still have the same boring combat mechanics, I wouldn't hold my breath.



FM, I agree you are right, it is indeed a scaling issue. It's just sad that we can't expect them to make a change that seems so intuitive to the rest of us.
#112 Dec 23 2012 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
je355804 wrote:
A. Battles with Lemurs took about 2 hits x 6 mobs = 12 hits to wipe out 6 mobs at level 15 was it?

That is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. Seriously, raise the **** difficulty of individual battles, and if nothing else, let them drop more XP per battle. I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.

B. If the boss that is 200 feet tall has an epileptic seizure every time he's hit by "command pebble toss" I'm fricking out.

SE LISTEN YOU F-ING MORONS. YOU CAN'T OUT WoW WoW. STOPPPPPPP TRYING.


YOU SHOULD REALLY READ THE OTHER POSTS!

This is right under the video, and I posted it about 25 posts back in this thread...

* The battle system is currently undergoing significant revision, including changes to all damage algorithms and the claim system.

This one is about 20 posts back in this very thread...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/59211-7th-Alpha-video-Levequests-and-Party-Combat?p=923866&viewfull=1#post923866

Greetings!

In regards to all of the comments about how the enemies visibly react to player attacks, we'll be adjusting these animations around the time the Beta Test begins.

Specifically we are looking into addressing it in the following ways:
•Vary the damage animation according to the amount of damage inflicted.
•Tone down the damage animation for large monsters.


Edit: Fat fingers

Edited, Dec 23rd 2012 8:24am by LebargeX

Edited, Dec 23rd 2012 8:27am by LebargeX



Dude, are you seriously going to ridicule me for not reading over 100 posts?

Also, where are they addressing mobs at level 15 dropping like flies after being hit 2 times? Ohhh that's right, we're in the process of making this game the ultimate casual gamers experience.

Maybe I'll give GW2 a try, it's like the people over at SE really, reallllly just don't get it.


Yes, we are. You would think, at 3 pages, your comments would have been mentioned already, Right? Or did you assume you were the only person on this forum with these ideas and we derailed and were all discussing the new Bacon Cheeseburger from Wendy's?

And fyi, crying about "casuals" should be left at the official forums, they do it much better than you.
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#113 Dec 23 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Good
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je355804 wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
je355804 wrote:
I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.


Herein lies the problem, the mobs really can't be tuned to be all that challenging due to scaling. It's the same problem you ran into if you played XI. Mobs that con 'Decent Challenge' would send you running for your mommy if you weren't [insert one of the 3-4 good solo jobs here]. SE needs to iron out the scaling of players vs mobs in their MMOs before they could hope to accomplish what you're asking for. I'd love to see it happen but given that we still have the same boring combat mechanics, I wouldn't hold my breath.



FM, I agree you are right, it is indeed a scaling issue. It's just sad that we can't expect them to make a change that seems so intuitive to the rest of us.

Intuitive is something that SE doesn't do very well, but if the alpha vids are any indication; they're learning. Essentially, they'd have wanted to create a foundation that they could adapt, and I guess that's still possible, but it'll be harder to pull off.

People didn't like the taste of 1.0 for obvious reasons, but there are a lot of people who were turned off by changes made from release to alpha. Slippery slope when you keep turning the game upside down and even though it may bring improvements, people don't like to get shaken around like that.

[Insert obligatory comment about people quitting XI when SE decided to raise the cap and obsolete gear players worked for ages to get here]
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#114 Dec 23 2012 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
Also, where are they addressing mobs at level 15 dropping like flies after being hit 2 times? Ohhh that's right, we're in the process of making this game the ultimate casual gamers experience.

Maybe I'll give GW2 a try, it's like the people over at SE really, reallllly just don't get it.


I think this belief that fights that are over in two hits is the mark of a casual game is a false equivalence.

Most non-boss fights in Dark Souls are over in one hit, but no one would accuse that game of being casual. Even the lowliest mob can eviscerate you in that game under the right circumstances, and at risk are all the souls (which functions as both currency and XP) and humanity you've gathered. Die before you collect them back, and they're gone forever. So not dying, even in routine fights, carries a certain satisfaction that you aren't failing miserably.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's about the stakes that make combat interesting. The length of the fight doesn't really matter as long as the consequences for "doing it wrong" or getting too reckless or letting your guard down is bad enough that you don't want to let that happen and doing the opposite makes you feel like a boss and you know what you're doing. Longer fights are obviously much better for boss battles, giving you a chance to showcase the myriad of skills you picked up, but it isn't always necessary for every encounter you come across.

#115je355804, Posted: Dec 23 2012 at 9:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Again I completely agree... unfortunately thus far from what we've seen, there is little to no incentive to not die. So you may have to tele back home.... big deal. Take 10% of hard-earned xp away and that will certainly be a serious incentive.
#116 Dec 23 2012 at 9:44 PM Rating: Good
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je355804 wrote:
Well I agree... but the issue is, whether we like it or not they are currently making grand overhauls. And unfortunately, they can't afford to get it wrong this time. They need to have a solid system in place immediately at launch or that's all she wrote for this game, as they say. They simply CANNOT afford to mess up at release this time. It has to be a system that is enjoyable for hardcore and casual players alike apparently.


Most companies realize they can't afford to get it wrong... the first time.

The 'can't afford to get it wrong' period already came and went. They couldn't afford to get it wrong, but they probably will again because they can't afford to get it right. To make XIV what it'll be expected to be after the colossal launch fail would cost them more time and money than they have. Anything less is just an appeal to the hardcore FF fans who will throw them charity subs in hopes that another VII, XI or whatever RPG once held a place in their heart will resurface in the future.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#117 Dec 24 2012 at 4:23 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
je355804 wrote:
I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.


Herein lies the problem, the mobs really can't be tuned to be all that challenging due to scaling. It's the same problem you ran into if you played XI. Mobs that con 'Decent Challenge' would send you running for your mommy if you weren't [insert one of the 3-4 good solo jobs here]. SE needs to iron out the scaling of players vs mobs in their MMOs before they could hope to accomplish what you're asking for. I'd love to see it happen but given that we still have the same boring combat mechanics, I wouldn't hold my breath.


somehow i don't think the scaling will be as bad as some might think, but i've certainly been wrong before.


Quote:


Dude, are you seriously going to ridicule me for not reading over 100 posts?

Also, where are they addressing mobs at level 15 dropping like flies after being hit 2 times? Ohhh that's right, we're in the process of making this game the ultimate casual gamers experience.

Maybe I'll give GW2 a try, it's like the people over at SE really, reallllly just don't get it.


It shows that you don't care much about the dialogue, which is fine; just don't post in that case. I just read 2 pages of this thread. Then again, i was actually participating in the first page, thus had motivation to read it all. Sometimes I'm guilty of posting before reading, but i always go back and make sure i didn't re-state something(and usually give myself a little flak for it if i find that i did). Its just good forum manners.

As for GW2, by all means give it a go. Everyone would do well to at least see what it's like. But if you attack a group of mobs 5 levels below you in that game, you're going to see the exact same results ;)



Edited, Dec 24th 2012 5:31am by Llester
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#118 Dec 24 2012 at 5:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Atkascha wrote:
I can't find it in me to be critical. Considering that Yoshi has said he envisions 2.0 to be an "amusement park," I hope to have plenty of other things to do so as to not focus on combat. The only person in this thread so far who has admitted to liking the video got rated down to oblivion. Things like that remind me why I've hardly ever posted here after being a member for almost seven years.


I know how you feel Atka. I'm cautiously optimistic for ARR, and all things are subject to change. Part of running an alpha (and beta) is changing things that need to be changed. Things will change before the reboot is released, and I think they'll change for the better.
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#119 Dec 24 2012 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
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I can't wait until this game is released so everyone can stop worrying about nothing. NDA prevents further explanation.
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#120 Dec 24 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
I can't wait until this game is released so everyone can stop worrying about nothing. NDA prevents further explanation.

Deja vu. I heard this before when I was in the first alpha and now again in the second. People in both tests are concerned and rightfully so.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#121 Dec 24 2012 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
I can't wait until this game is released so everyone can stop worrying about nothing. NDA prevents further explanation.

Deja vu. I heard this before when I was in the first alpha and now again in the second. People in both tests are concerned and rightfully so.


Lies. You never heard this in the first Alpha. Everyone was complaining about it. This Alpha is giving me a major Cassandra Complex.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 10:34am by Louiscool
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#122 Dec 24 2012 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
I can't wait until this game is released so everyone can stop worrying about nothing. NDA prevents further explanation.

Deja vu. I heard this before when I was in the first alpha and now again in the second. People in both tests are concerned and rightfully so.


Lies. You never heard this in the first Alpha. Everyone was complaining about it. This Alpha is giving me a major Cassandra Complex.

If you're under NDA then the proof is readily available to you already Smiley: tongue
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#123 Dec 24 2012 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Why did SE think it was going to be a good idea to release a video with graphics that will be updated, a combat engine that will be revamped, only 3 jobs, limited gear, cap level, star wars-esque wipes because they KNEW it was kind of boring in places, and accelerated xp values on quests/leves?

If they're trying to show off their game, they might want to not show off this temp game... it leads to people getting the wrong idea. Unless this IS going to be the game... and then... uh.... my brain hurts.

On the other hand, Adamantoise looked coo.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 2:58pm by Catrim
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#124 Dec 24 2012 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
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Catrim wrote:
Why did SE think it was going to be a good idea to release a video with graphics that will be updated, a combat engine that will be revamped, only 3 jobs, limited gear, cap level, star wars-esque wipes because they KNEW it was kind of boring in places, and accelerated xp values on quests/leves?

If they're trying to show off their game, they might want to not show off this temp game... it leads to people getting the wrong idea. Unless this IS going to be the game... and then... uh.... my brain hurts.

On the other hand, Adamantoise looked coo.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 2:58pm by Catrim



maybe because SE thought most ppl would know the definition of ALPHA... but incase no one does ill help out:

"Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[138] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[139] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[138] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[139] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[137] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release.[138]"


notice the bold parts...... sounds to me like an ALPHA having missing/nonexisting animations is VERY much within its definition (among other things)..

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 4:01pm by DuoMaxwellxx
#125 Dec 24 2012 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Question stands.... why advertise a game that isn't going to be the game. Didn't even mention missing animations at all... there are missing animations?! Also... this game isn't coming out for 10 months? When did this happen?

Wow... what a richard.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 4:33pm by Catrim

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 4:37pm by Catrim
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#126 Dec 24 2012 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Catrim wrote:
Question stands.... why advertise a game that isn't going to be the game. Didn't even mention missing animations at all... there are missing animations?! Also... this game isn't coming out for 10 months? When did this happen?

Wow... what a richard.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 4:33pm by Catrim

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 4:37pm by Catrim



Im sure the 8-10 months doesnt apply to ALL alphas.. and yes there are animations missing look at the battle video all teh weapon skilsl and stuff are just flahsing lights no actual animation to any of the weapon skills they all look the same
#127 Dec 24 2012 at 5:03 PM Rating: Decent
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They advertised it because they have a base of players who won't be accepted to the alpha or beta, and thus will have to go a whole six to ten months (depending on release schedule) without being able to play.

The alpha video isn't for the new players, it's for the old players who are crossing their fingers that the broken **** gets fixed. So far, a lot of it appears to be fixed from what I've seen (and heard from folks who are being naughty.)
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#128 Dec 24 2012 at 5:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
They advertised it because they have a base of players who won't be accepted to the alpha or beta, and thus will have to go a whole six to ten months (depending on release schedule) without being able to play.

The alpha video isn't for the new players, it's for the old players who are crossing their fingers that the broken sh*t gets fixed. So far, a lot of it appears to be fixed from what I've seen (and heard from folks who are being naughty.)


...this is an answer. Thank you.
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#129 Dec 24 2012 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Once the NDA is over (and I imagine that will be soonish) then those of you under it can let loose to your hearts content. Until then, I'm making a list and checking it twice for you naughty little elves Smiley: sly
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#130 Dec 24 2012 at 10:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Once the NDA is over (and I imagine that will be soonish) then those of you under it can let loose to your hearts content. Until then, I'm making a list and checking it twice for you naughty little elves Smiley: sly


Make the list, check it twice, and check the IP address Smiley: sly
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#131 Dec 24 2012 at 11:55 PM Rating: Default
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Llester wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
je355804 wrote:
I would 100% rather fight tough battles where the fear of death is possible, rather than fighting 25 easy battles where I'm mindlessly running about spamming one spell.


Herein lies the problem, the mobs really can't be tuned to be all that challenging due to scaling. It's the same problem you ran into if you played XI. Mobs that con 'Decent Challenge' would send you running for your mommy if you weren't [insert one of the 3-4 good solo jobs here]. SE needs to iron out the scaling of players vs mobs in their MMOs before they could hope to accomplish what you're asking for. I'd love to see it happen but given that we still have the same boring combat mechanics, I wouldn't hold my breath.


somehow i don't think the scaling will be as bad as some might think, but i've certainly been wrong before.


Quote:


Dude, are you seriously going to ridicule me for not reading over 100 posts?

Also, where are they addressing mobs at level 15 dropping like flies after being hit 2 times? Ohhh that's right, we're in the process of making this game the ultimate casual gamers experience.

Maybe I'll give GW2 a try, it's like the people over at SE really, reallllly just don't get it.


It shows that you don't care much about the dialogue, which is fine; just don't post in that case. I just read 2 pages of this thread. Then again, i was actually participating in the first page, thus had motivation to read it all. Sometimes I'm guilty of posting before reading, but i always go back and make sure i didn't re-state something(and usually give myself a little flak for it if i find that i did). Its just good forum manners.

As for GW2, by all means give it a go. Everyone would do well to at least see what it's like. But if you attack a group of mobs 5 levels below you in that game, you're going to see the exact same results ;)



Edited, Dec 24th 2012 5:31am by Llester


Sure I care about the dialogue. With that said, my post was in response to the movie posted in the opening remarks by the OP. If my "initial" thoughts happen to have already been mentioned, then that's great. It just means people share my sentiment.


Edited, Dec 25th 2012 12:56am by je355804
#132 Dec 25 2012 at 12:02 AM Rating: Default
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Catrim wrote:
Why did SE think it was going to be a good idea to release a video with graphics that will be updated, a combat engine that will be revamped, only 3 jobs, limited gear, cap level, star wars-esque wipes because they KNEW it was kind of boring in places, and accelerated xp values on quests/leves?

If they're trying to show off their game, they might want to not show off this temp game... it leads to people getting the wrong idea. Unless this IS going to be the game... and then... uh.... my brain hurts.

On the other hand, Adamantoise looked coo.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 2:58pm by Catrim



maybe because SE thought most ppl would know the definition of ALPHA... but incase no one does ill help out:

"Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[138] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[139] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[138] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[139] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[137] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release.[138]"


notice the bold parts...... sounds to me like an ALPHA having missing/nonexisting animations is VERY much within its definition (among other things)..

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 4:01pm by DuoMaxwellxx


Ohhh you see, that's funny... because we gamers thought people with high levels of education, and presumably "dream jobs" based on some level of professional merit had COMMON SENSE... You know, it's COMMON SENSE that people are going to think that an enemy who looks like it is having a serious case of alcohol withdraw induced seizure is a horrible idea. But in case they didn't know that definition I'll help out:

Common sense is sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts.
#133 Dec 25 2012 at 6:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Lets watch the vitriol here guys. Disagreements are fine, but keep it civil or I'll start stepping on necks.
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#134 Dec 25 2012 at 7:58 AM Rating: Default
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je355804 wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Catrim wrote:
Why did SE think it was going to be a good idea to release a video with graphics that will be updated, a combat engine that will be revamped, only 3 jobs, limited gear, cap level, star wars-esque wipes because they KNEW it was kind of boring in places, and accelerated xp values on quests/leves?

If they're trying to show off their game, they might want to not show off this temp game... it leads to people getting the wrong idea. Unless this IS going to be the game... and then... uh.... my brain hurts.

On the other hand, Adamantoise looked coo.

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 2:58pm by Catrim



maybe because SE thought most ppl would know the definition of ALPHA... but incase no one does ill help out:

"Alpha is the stage when key gameplay functionality is implemented, and assets are partially finished.[138] A game in alpha is feature complete, that is, game is playable and contains all the major features.[139] These features may be further revised based on testing and feedback.[138] Additional small, new features may be added, similarly planned, but unimplemented features may be dropped.[139] Programmers focus mainly on finishing the codebase, rather than implementing additions.[137] Alpha occurs eight to ten months before code release.[138]"


notice the bold parts...... sounds to me like an ALPHA having missing/nonexisting animations is VERY much within its definition (among other things)..

Edited, Dec 24th 2012 4:01pm by DuoMaxwellxx


Ohhh you see, that's funny... because we gamers thought people with high levels of education, and presumably "dream jobs" based on some level of professional merit had COMMON SENSE... You know, it's COMMON SENSE that people are going to think that an enemy who looks like it is having a serious case of alcohol withdraw induced seizure is a horrible idea. But in case they didn't know that definition I'll help out:

Common sense is sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts.



I fail to see the point youre trying to make, no one disputed that an enemy who looks like it is having a serious case of alcohol withdraw induced seizure is a horrible idea.

the point was anyone who knows the definition of alpha (which if they didnt know, knows now) would know that just because that horrible idea is present in the alpha doesnt mean it will still exist in the final relase
#135 Dec 25 2012 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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^^^^ Did you play XIV ?
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#136 Dec 25 2012 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
^^^^ Did you play XIV ?



I dont see the relevance of whether or not I played XIV has to do with what i said
#137 Dec 25 2012 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
^^^^ Did you play XIV ?


Please forgive Duo, he did not play 1.0.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
^^^^ Did you play XIV ?



I dont see the relevance of whether or not I played XIV has to do with what i said


Duo, don't mind Ostia, he doesn't mean this to be negative towards you. He only means that there were several things that many people thought were horrible ideas that did make it into the final build of 1.0.
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#138 Dec 25 2012 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
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The issues that where present in the original alpha of XIV and that concerned testers, where present in Beta and where still present in Release.

Do you see the relevance of my question ? If you enjoyed FFXIV at release, then you would enjoy practically anything SE comes up with including **** with Final Fantasy in bold letters stapled on it.

Now if you did not enjoy FFXIV at release or better yet if you where a Alpha/beta tester of 1.0..... You would be not so quick to dismiss everybody's concerns with "It's just Alpha." For we have seen this happen already, not only with the same company but with the same game.
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#139 Dec 25 2012 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
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swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
^^^^ Did you play XIV ?


Please forgive Duo, he did not play 1.0.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
^^^^ Did you play XIV ?



I dont see the relevance of whether or not I played XIV has to do with what i said


Duo, don't mind Ostia, he doesn't mean this to be negative towards you. He only means that there were several things that many people thought were horrible ideas that did make it into the final build of 1.0.


Correct, i was not trying to be negative towards him with my question, as you explained and i commented, there where issues on the original alpha/beta that testers where concerned about and they where meet with the same "It's just alpha/beta" then when the game released we all know what happened.
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#140 Dec 25 2012 at 7:08 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
^^^^ Did you play XIV ?


Please forgive Duo, he did not play 1.0.

DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
^^^^ Did you play XIV ?



I dont see the relevance of whether or not I played XIV has to do with what i said


Duo, don't mind Ostia, he doesn't mean this to be negative towards you. He only means that there were several things that many people thought were horrible ideas that did make it into the final build of 1.0.


Correct, i was not trying to be negative towards him with my question, as you explained and i commented, there where issues on the original alpha/beta that testers where concerned about and they where meet with the same "It's just alpha/beta" then when the game released we all know what happened.


im 100% sure there were issues that werent fixed in the alpha/beta but considering SE learned enough from their mistakes that theyre doing FFXIV from the ground up instead of just taking the loss and leaving it as it is/was I would think theyd also be smart enough to not make the alpha/beta mistake again
#141 Dec 25 2012 at 7:40 PM Rating: Good
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Thus far there's yet to be any really compelling evidence that they're rebuilding the game "from the ground up." There are significant improvements, but if you replace half the parts on a totally busted bike, you still have a bike you can't ride.
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#142 Dec 25 2012 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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It is Square-ENIX.... Not Squaresoft.... And as far as SE learning from their mistakes.... Yeah that has yet to happen.
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#143 Dec 26 2012 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Once the NDA is over (and I imagine that will be soonish) then those of you under it can let loose to your hearts content. Until then, I'm making a list and checking it twice for you naughty little elves Smiley: sly


Dammit Wint, I have a gf now, I can't have you titillating me that way.
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#144 Dec 26 2012 at 7:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Square is Square, regardless of the second part. IF you think they haven't made mistakes in their past or have not been pushed to the brink before the Enix merger you need to read up on history.

There's a very major difference between "It's Alpha." and "I'm under the NDA otherwise I'd hand you a serving of crow pie to eat." Please keep that in mind.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 8:31am by Hyrist
#145 Dec 26 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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Square is not Square anymore, whoever thinks they are, is either living the past, or is one hardcore Fanboy. Did they make a major blunder in the past with spirits within ? Sure! But hey it was doing something totally out of their comfort zone.... Unlike Squenix where they fail doing what they are supposed to be 100 light years ahead of everybody... Video Games....

And save that crow pie for when Versus comes out....

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#146 Dec 26 2012 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Square is not Square anymore, whoever thinks they are, is either living the past, or is one hardcore Fanboy. Did they make a major blunder in the past with spirits within ? Sure! But hey it was doing something totally out of their comfort zone....


RPGamer via Wikipedia wrote:
The merger between Square and Enix, which had been under consideration since at least 2000 according to the then Enix chairman Yasuhiro ********** was delayed because of the failure of the film and Enix' hesitation at merging with a company that had just lost a substantial amount of money.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy:_The_Spirits_Within#Impact_on_Square_Co._and_Enix

Not that you explicitly said it had anything to do with Squaresoft not being Squaresoft anymore due to that movie. Still, nippin' that assumption in the **** before it gets any steam. Smiley: tongue It's really interesting how so many people think that Enix came in to 'rescue' a crippled Squaresoft, when it was really almost the opposite that happened.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 9:25am by Satisiun
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#147 Dec 26 2012 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Thus far there's yet to be any really compelling evidence that they're rebuilding the game "from the ground up." There are significant improvements, but if you replace half the parts on a totally busted bike, you still have a bike you can't ride.



so answer this question... if SE isnt gonna bother to make FFXIV what it SHOULD have been when it first came out... why are they bothered to fix the game now? why not just leave it as it was and just say "if you dont like it dont play it" like most companies would do with a game that fails?

it makes no sense for SE to start "fixing" the game if theyre not gonna do it right when leaving it as it is would be much easier and cost less money
#148 Dec 26 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Thus far there's yet to be any really compelling evidence that they're rebuilding the game "from the ground up." There are significant improvements, but if you replace half the parts on a totally busted bike, you still have a bike you can't ride.



so answer this question... if SE isnt gonna bother to make FFXIV what it SHOULD have been when it first came out... why are they bothered to fix the game now? why not just leave it as it was and just say "if you dont like it dont play it" like most companies would do with a game that fails?

it makes no sense for SE to start "fixing" the game if theyre not gonna do it right when leaving it as it is would be much easier and cost less money


Because it's a numbered Final Fantasy and they can't just let it die.
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#149 Dec 26 2012 at 9:36 AM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Thus far there's yet to be any really compelling evidence that they're rebuilding the game "from the ground up." There are significant improvements, but if you replace half the parts on a totally busted bike, you still have a bike you can't ride.



so answer this question... if SE isnt gonna bother to make FFXIV what it SHOULD have been when it first came out... why are they bothered to fix the game now? why not just leave it as it was and just say "if you dont like it dont play it" like most companies would do with a game that fails?

it makes no sense for SE to start "fixing" the game if theyre not gonna do it right when leaving it as it is would be much easier and cost less money


Because it's a numbered Final Fantasy and they can't just let it die.



but theyre gonna "pretend" to fix it even though theyre really fixing nothing at all?
#150 Dec 26 2012 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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The "fixes" I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl. That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality. That it didn't feel like a final fantasy game. That I'd randomly be kicked off the server if I made the mistake of being in an area with too many people in it at once. Those things have all been addressed. And those things were the chief complaints from both alpha and beta about 1.0 when it was released.

A "broken" game - which 1.0 was at launch - is not the same thing as an imperfect game. No MMO will ever be perfect and please every one all the time. So far it seems that 2.0 is not utterly broken like 1.0 was, which means the major fixes the game needed to be playable are already in place. As the story in 1.0 evolved under Yoshi P's direction, the game became a lot more engaging in spite of its terrible engine.
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#151 Dec 26 2012 at 9:56 AM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
The "fixes" I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl. That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality. That it didn't feel like a final fantasy game. That I'd randomly be kicked off the server if I made the mistake of being in an area with too many people in it at once. Those things have all been addressed. And those things were the chief complaints from both alpha and beta about 1.0 when it was released.

A "broken" game - which 1.0 was at launch - is not the same thing as an imperfect game. No MMO will ever be perfect and please every one all the time. So far it seems that 2.0 is not utterly broken like 1.0 was, which means the major fixes the game needed to be playable are already in place. As the story in 1.0 evolved under Yoshi P's direction, the game became a lot more engaging in spite of its terrible engine.



so then I ask.. why does 2.0 even exist? considering theres a review site that has been rereviewing FFXIV after every major patch update and according to one of their reviews FFXIV had already achieved being "where/how it SHOULD have been at launch" with one of its previous pathched.. thus the game was already "fixed" before ARR was even announced. so Why even bother with ARR/2.0 then?


Also why couldnt 2.0/ARR just be a new patch instead of goin through the whole proces of rebranding and new ads etc etc when the game is gonna be nothing more than a patch instead of a full overhaul/new game from the ground up according to you?
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