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#152 Dec 26 2012 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
catwho wrote:
The "fixes" I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl. That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality. That it didn't feel like a final fantasy game. That I'd randomly be kicked off the server if I made the mistake of being in an area with too many people in it at once. Those things have all been addressed. And those things were the chief complaints from both alpha and beta about 1.0 when it was released.

A "broken" game - which 1.0 was at launch - is not the same thing as an imperfect game. No MMO will ever be perfect and please every one all the time. So far it seems that 2.0 is not utterly broken like 1.0 was, which means the major fixes the game needed to be playable are already in place. As the story in 1.0 evolved under Yoshi P's direction, the game became a lot more engaging in spite of its terrible engine.



so then I ask.. why does 2.0 even exist? considering theres a review site that has been rereviewing FFXIV after every major patch update and according to one of their reviews FFXIV had already achieved being "where/how it SHOULD have been at launch" with one of its previous pathched.. thus the game was already "fixed" before ARR was even announced. so Why even bother with ARR/2.0 then?


Also why couldnt 2.0/ARR just be a new patch instead of goin through the whole proces of rebranding and new ads etc etc when the game is gonna be nothing more than a patch instead of a full overhaul/new game from the ground up according to you?


Do you even read her posts? The major things she lists are things that require the game to be rewritten from the ground up as they are doing with 2.0.
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#153 Dec 26 2012 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
catwho wrote:
The "fixes" I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl. That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality. That it didn't feel like a final fantasy game. That I'd randomly be kicked off the server if I made the mistake of being in an area with too many people in it at once. Those things have all been addressed. And those things were the chief complaints from both alpha and beta about 1.0 when it was released.

A "broken" game - which 1.0 was at launch - is not the same thing as an imperfect game. No MMO will ever be perfect and please every one all the time. So far it seems that 2.0 is not utterly broken like 1.0 was, which means the major fixes the game needed to be playable are already in place. As the story in 1.0 evolved under Yoshi P's direction, the game became a lot more engaging in spite of its terrible engine.



so then I ask.. why does 2.0 even exist? considering theres a review site that has been rereviewing FFXIV after every major patch update and according to one of their reviews FFXIV had already achieved being "where/how it SHOULD have been at launch" with one of its previous pathched.. thus the game was already "fixed" before ARR was even announced. so Why even bother with ARR/2.0 then?


Also why couldnt 2.0/ARR just be a new patch instead of goin through the whole proces of rebranding and new ads etc etc when the game is gonna be nothing more than a patch instead of a full overhaul/new game from the ground up according to you?


Do you even read her posts? The major things she lists are things that require the game to be rewritten from the ground up as they are doing with 2.0.



"I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl."

I could see that requiring a new engine or reworking.. but the rest Id think could be simply done with a patch
#154 Dec 26 2012 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality.


A new UI and completely new environments cannot be patched. They did away with the giant copy/paste zones and split the world up into more realistic zone sizes (for an MMO). Those are core, fundamental changes that can't be patched in. We're talking gigabytes of data. I know downloading a 6gb patch isn't terribly painful for some, but you can't rely on that for everyone.
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#155 Dec 26 2012 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl."

I could see that requiring a new engine or reworking.. but the rest Id think could be simply done with a patch

The foundation of the game was poorly written. It could bring most top-end computers to their knees if 5 or more people showed up on your screen at the same time. The biggest reason, IMO, for the relaunch is to save face with SE's fanbase. When they launched 1.0 a lot of people jumped on it thinking "it's a new Final Fantasy MMO, it's gonna be freakin' awesome!" and had never read reviews or beta feedback (myself included). Now people are more cautious and are going to pick apart anything new they show us. SE has to regain a lot of trust and what better way than to do a rebuild. We all heard the magical golden patch that'll fix 1.0 and if I heard it this time, I wouldn't even bother lurking this board.
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#156 Dec 26 2012 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Haha yeah I remember the "Golden Patch" - it was after that that I gave it a shot again. It did finally make 1.0 sort of fun, but it didn't actually make it good.
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#157 Dec 26 2012 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Square is not Square anymore, whoever thinks they are, is either living the past, or is one hardcore Fanboy.


Can't I do both? :c
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#158 Dec 26 2012 at 1:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Quote:
That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality.


A new UI and completely new environments cannot be patched. They did away with the giant copy/paste zones and split the world up into more realistic zone sizes (for an MMO). Those are core, fundamental changes that can't be patched in. We're talking gigabytes of data. I know downloading a 6gb patch isn't terribly painful for some, but you can't rely on that for everyone.



but doesnt an expansion add new areas without completely reworking an engine and whatnot?
#159 Dec 26 2012 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Seraphaniim wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl."

I could see that requiring a new engine or reworking.. but the rest Id think could be simply done with a patch

The foundation of the game was poorly written. It could bring most top-end computers to their knees if 5 or more people showed up on your screen at the same time. The biggest reason, IMO, for the relaunch is to save face with SE's fanbase. When they launched 1.0 a lot of people jumped on it thinking "it's a new Final Fantasy MMO, it's gonna be freakin' awesome!" and had never read reviews or beta feedback (myself included). Now people are more cautious and are going to pick apart anything new they show us. SE has to regain a lot of trust and what better way than to do a rebuild. We all heard the magical golden patch that'll fix 1.0 and if I heard it this time, I wouldn't even bother lurking this board.



well if SE is worried about ppl picking it apart they should start showing better footage because what Im seeing right now doesnt seem to be a HUGE difference over what the game once was according to more than half of you
#160 Dec 26 2012 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
Quote:
That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality.


A new UI and completely new environments cannot be patched. They did away with the giant copy/paste zones and split the world up into more realistic zone sizes (for an MMO). Those are core, fundamental changes that can't be patched in. We're talking gigabytes of data. I know downloading a 6gb patch isn't terribly painful for some, but you can't rely on that for everyone.



but doesnt an expansion add new areas without completely reworking an engine and whatnot?


Yes but those areas are built upon the existing engine whereas this is entirely new. I do work as an application developer so I feel like I have some kind of authority on how patching works and I'm sure that if they could have somehow salvaged the game code without having to distribute a brand new client they would have. Not only are they rewriting the client they're rewriting the server software as well so really it's just not worth it to try to make it all work.

In software versioning, incrementing the major release number (the first number in the series) indicates a rewrite which is what we are getting here and I think it's completely justified for the amount of change going in.
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#161 Dec 26 2012 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Seraphaniim wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl."

I could see that requiring a new engine or reworking.. but the rest Id think could be simply done with a patch

The foundation of the game was poorly written. It could bring most top-end computers to their knees if 5 or more people showed up on your screen at the same time. The biggest reason, IMO, for the relaunch is to save face with SE's fanbase. When they launched 1.0 a lot of people jumped on it thinking "it's a new Final Fantasy MMO, it's gonna be freakin' awesome!" and had never read reviews or beta feedback (myself included). Now people are more cautious and are going to pick apart anything new they show us. SE has to regain a lot of trust and what better way than to do a rebuild. We all heard the magical golden patch that'll fix 1.0 and if I heard it this time, I wouldn't even bother lurking this board.



well if SE is worried about ppl picking it apart they should start showing better footage because what Im seeing right now doesnt seem to be a HUGE difference over what the game once was according to more than half of you


Then you aren't looking hard enough and you should trust those of us that have been here from the beginning that the changes are broad, sweeping, and in general for the better.
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"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
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#162 Dec 26 2012 at 2:34 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Seraphaniim wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl."

I could see that requiring a new engine or reworking.. but the rest Id think could be simply done with a patch

The foundation of the game was poorly written. It could bring most top-end computers to their knees if 5 or more people showed up on your screen at the same time. The biggest reason, IMO, for the relaunch is to save face with SE's fanbase. When they launched 1.0 a lot of people jumped on it thinking "it's a new Final Fantasy MMO, it's gonna be freakin' awesome!" and had never read reviews or beta feedback (myself included). Now people are more cautious and are going to pick apart anything new they show us. SE has to regain a lot of trust and what better way than to do a rebuild. We all heard the magical golden patch that'll fix 1.0 and if I heard it this time, I wouldn't even bother lurking this board.



well if SE is worried about ppl picking it apart they should start showing better footage because what Im seeing right now doesnt seem to be a HUGE difference over what the game once was according to more than half of you


Then you aren't looking hard enough and you should trust those of us that have been here from the beginning that the changes are broad, sweeping, and in general for the better.

This reminded me of when old people complain; "you kids don't know how good you have it these days, when I was your age [insert horrible experience doing an every day, mundane activity]." Unless you actually lived through the train wreck of 1.0 release, words will never full describe how much has changed.
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#163 Dec 26 2012 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
Seraphaniim wrote:
Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Seraphaniim wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl."

I could see that requiring a new engine or reworking.. but the rest Id think could be simply done with a patch

The foundation of the game was poorly written. It could bring most top-end computers to their knees if 5 or more people showed up on your screen at the same time. The biggest reason, IMO, for the relaunch is to save face with SE's fanbase. When they launched 1.0 a lot of people jumped on it thinking "it's a new Final Fantasy MMO, it's gonna be freakin' awesome!" and had never read reviews or beta feedback (myself included). Now people are more cautious and are going to pick apart anything new they show us. SE has to regain a lot of trust and what better way than to do a rebuild. We all heard the magical golden patch that'll fix 1.0 and if I heard it this time, I wouldn't even bother lurking this board.



well if SE is worried about ppl picking it apart they should start showing better footage because what Im seeing right now doesnt seem to be a HUGE difference over what the game once was according to more than half of you


Then you aren't looking hard enough and you should trust those of us that have been here from the beginning that the changes are broad, sweeping, and in general for the better.

This reminded me of when old people complain; "you kids don't know how good you have it these days, when I was your age [insert horrible experience doing an every day, mundane activity]." Unless you actually lived through the train wreck of 1.0 release, words will never full describe how much has changed.


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#164 Dec 26 2012 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Square is not Square anymore, whoever thinks they are, is either living the past, or is one hardcore Fanboy. Did they make a major blunder in the past with spirits within ? Sure! But hey it was doing something totally out of their comfort zone.... Unlike Squenix where they fail doing what they are supposed to be 100 light years ahead of everybody... Video Games....

And save that crow pie for when Versus comes out....



What's worse, a disenfranchised fanboy, or someone who's not blind to Squaresoft's blunders in the past?

One need look no farther than Spirits Within to realize hey, Squaresoft isn't perfect. But few rather know that they almost buckled under before FFVII came out, again before FFX came out, and that Spirits Within was the fourth time the company's integrity was put into serious financial question. (The first being immediately before "Final Fantasy" which is dubbed so because it was supposed to be the company's swansong.)

Square as a company has a long history of being volatile, with many of it's shortcomings being pushed under the carpet in leau of some blockbuster hit looming on the horizon, much like you're hoping with Versus XIII. Enix, by contrast was the more stable Company, if not as financially successful. Enix actually hesitated for some time for the merger because of the colossal flop that was Spirits Within.

I am a fan of Square, I likely will be for my lifetime due to their impact on my childhood. But in spite of my optimism, I am not a fanboy. Fanboys get ticked off and become Haters when their perfect image of the company is marred by mistakes they can't reject, and seek to scapegoat something like blame a company merger or a publisher's ownership.

Square is was, and will likely always will be a flawed company that had an awesome franchise. Time will tell if SquareEnix still has the stuff to turn awesome cinematic and transfer them into a great game. So far, they're falling short in the gameplay department, and given that we have a much more cynical player base than we used to, as well as the advances in gameplay development and the rise of western competition, I don't think they'll ever have the captive audience they had before.

Doesn't mean they still can't produce something great, but we're going to be less forgiving of their flaws, and it shows with how hard they're struggling to find their center again.

And I'm biting my lip as far as as some of issues being listed here. But I will concur with those who are expressing that the total rewrite was needed, sorely needed. Though there are likely going to be some mechanics old game veterans will miss.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 4:31pm by Hyrist
#165 Dec 26 2012 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
Hyrist wrote:
But in spite of my optimism, I am not a fanboy.


That's cuz you iz a fanMAN.
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#166 Dec 26 2012 at 4:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Seraphaniim wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I needed were based on the fact that 10 characters at once would clog up my system and slow the game to a crawl."

I could see that requiring a new engine or reworking.. but the rest Id think could be simply done with a patch

The foundation of the game was poorly written. It could bring most top-end computers to their knees if 5 or more people showed up on your screen at the same time. The biggest reason, IMO, for the relaunch is to save face with SE's fanbase. When they launched 1.0 a lot of people jumped on it thinking "it's a new Final Fantasy MMO, it's gonna be freakin' awesome!" and had never read reviews or beta feedback (myself included). Now people are more cautious and are going to pick apart anything new they show us. SE has to regain a lot of trust and what better way than to do a rebuild. We all heard the magical golden patch that'll fix 1.0 and if I heard it this time, I wouldn't even bother lurking this board.



well if SE is worried about ppl picking it apart they should start showing better footage because what Im seeing right now doesnt seem to be a HUGE difference over what the game once was according to more than half of you


Then you aren't looking hard enough and you should trust those of us that have been here from the beginning that the changes are broad, sweeping, and in general for the better.



so i should trust the ppl who are saying the battles (for example) look no different than how the game was before? I AM trusting those ppl and theyre the ones that are saying theres not any HUGE differences lol...

in otherwords if you you though 1.0 was crap you arent gonna think 2.0 is worth it... or if you think it Is worth it itll only be "passable" in otherwords the changes from 1.0 to 2/.0 will be more like if you gave 1.0 a 1/10 youll give 2/0 a 6/10 as opposed to giving 1.0 a 1/10 and 2.0 a 9/10 or 10/10 as ppl would like to think it will be.
#167 Dec 26 2012 at 5:18 PM Rating: Default
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Satisiun wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Square is not Square anymore, whoever thinks they are, is either living the past, or is one hardcore Fanboy. Did they make a major blunder in the past with spirits within ? Sure! But hey it was doing something totally out of their comfort zone....


RPGamer via Wikipedia wrote:
The merger between Square and Enix, which had been under consideration since at least 2000 according to the then Enix chairman Yasuhiro ********** was delayed because of the failure of the film and Enix' hesitation at merging with a company that had just lost a substantial amount of money.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy:_The_Spirits_Within#Impact_on_Square_Co._and_Enix

Not that you explicitly said it had anything to do with Squaresoft not being Squaresoft anymore due to that movie. Still, nippin' that assumption in the **** before it gets any steam. Smiley: tongue It's really interesting how so many people think that Enix came in to 'rescue' a crippled Squaresoft, when it was really almost the opposite that happened.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 9:25am by Satisiun


Just to be clear, i was not implying Square had to merger with Enix because of the bomb that was SW... I know my square history XD!
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#168 Dec 26 2012 at 5:22 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Square is not Square anymore, whoever thinks they are, is either living the past, or is one hardcore Fanboy.


Can't I do both? :c


I have grown fond of you... You can do both kane! Smiley: lol
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#169 Dec 26 2012 at 6:53 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Square is not Square anymore, whoever thinks they are, is either living the past, or is one hardcore Fanboy. Did they make a major blunder in the past with spirits within ? Sure! But hey it was doing something totally out of their comfort zone.... Unlike Squenix where they fail doing what they are supposed to be 100 light years ahead of everybody... Video Games....

And save that crow pie for when Versus comes out....



What's worse, a disenfranchised fanboy, or someone who's not blind to Squaresoft's blunders in the past?

One need look no farther than Spirits Within to realize hey, Squaresoft isn't perfect. But few rather know that they almost buckled under before FFVII came out, again before FFX came out, and that Spirits Within was the fourth time the company's integrity was put into serious financial question. (The first being immediately before "Final Fantasy" which is dubbed so because it was supposed to be the company's swansong.)

Square as a company has a long history of being volatile, with many of it's shortcomings being pushed under the carpet in leau of some blockbuster hit looming on the horizon, much like you're hoping with Versus XIII. Enix, by contrast was the more stable Company, if not as financially successful. Enix actually hesitated for some time for the merger because of the colossal flop that was Spirits Within.

I am a fan of Square, I likely will be for my lifetime due to their impact on my childhood. But in spite of my optimism, I am not a fanboy. Fanboys get ticked off and become Haters when their perfect image of the company is marred by mistakes they can't reject, and seek to scapegoat something like blame a company merger or a publisher's ownership.

Square is was, and will likely always will be a flawed company that had an awesome franchise. Time will tell if SquareEnix still has the stuff to turn awesome cinematic and transfer them into a great game. So far, they're falling short in the gameplay department, and given that we have a much more cynical player base than we used to, as well as the advances in gameplay development and the rise of western competition, I don't think they'll ever have the captive audience they had before.

Doesn't mean they still can't produce something great, but we're going to be less forgiving of their flaws, and it shows with how hard they're struggling to find their center again.

And I'm biting my lip as far as as some of issues being listed here. But I will concur with those who are expressing that the total rewrite was needed, sorely needed. Though there are likely going to be some mechanics old game veterans will miss.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 4:31pm by Hyrist


I must have struck a nerve.... I mean jesus that recap of Squares history almost brought a tear to my eyes Smiley: rolleyes

Your definition of fanboy is amusing at best. And time will tell ? You do realize that Square-Enix has existed for a decade already ? Yet they still need more time to show if they have the "Stuff" ?? Get real man, Square is not Square any longer, the proof is in the pudding, we can sit here and blame the merger(Which i never did) or western gaming, or fan's who have grown up and have rose colored glasses so on so on.... The fact is that the company has suffered an undeniable decline in the quality of their games since the departure of sakaguchi and the merger, now are those 2 factors the entire cause ? Of course not, they have also let their most talented developers leave the company(Xeno team, Yasumi matsuno, Front mission/Arc the lad team) To name a few. Square-Enix has a president that is a complete idiot, their leadership is a joke, the quality of the games they have release in the last decade is laughable at best if you compare them to their 2 previous Decades.

Blame whoever you want, the question at hand is "Is Square-Enix at the same level as Squaresoft was ?" The answer is No! Period.
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#170 Dec 26 2012 at 6:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
Quote:
That menus took seconds to load instead of being instant. That the environmental graphics were boring, cut and paste repeats with no personality.


A new UI and completely new environments cannot be patched. They did away with the giant copy/paste zones and split the world up into more realistic zone sizes (for an MMO). Those are core, fundamental changes that can't be patched in. We're talking gigabytes of data. I know downloading a 6gb patch isn't terribly painful for some, but you can't rely on that for everyone.



but doesnt an expansion add new areas without completely reworking an engine and whatnot?


Yes but those areas are built upon the existing engine whereas this is entirely new. I do work as an application developer so I feel like I have some kind of authority on how patching works and I'm sure that if they could have somehow salvaged the game code without having to distribute a brand new client they would have. Not only are they rewriting the client they're rewriting the server software as well so really it's just not worth it to try to make it all work.

In software versioning, incrementing the major release number (the first number in the series) indicates a rewrite which is what we are getting here and I think it's completely justified for the amount of change going in.


They could have... Would it have been wise to do ? In my opinion no, #1 They lose their golden excuse of "We cannot do X or Y or Z or any letter of the alphabet because of Coding" and #2 how much time and manpower would they have had to devote to gutting and fixing the coding ? Might as well start from scratch, with a better engine.
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#171 Dec 26 2012 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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It also depends on how well they wrote the spec the first time around.

For all we know, Tanaka could have been forced to retire for "health reasons" when it became known that he ascribed to "The code IS the documentation" - a wildly popular and oh so terribly wrong theory among IT project managers. It's all good when the same team is working on the code the next year, but when that entire team has been sacked and a new group is brought in, they're going to take one look at the spaghetti mess you've created without any notes and go "Uhhhh...."

It really is easier to start over from scratch most of the time, especially when you're not the one who programmed it the first time.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 10:05pm by catwho
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#172 Dec 26 2012 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
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SE did not sack the entire team and brought a new one in to replace them, they changed figure heads, and called it a day, they did hire and added new people to the original team.

Just pointing it Out! But i do believe their code could suck.... I have played SE PC games.... They are worse than bathesda.
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#173 Dec 26 2012 at 9:48 PM Rating: Good
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They did more than just switch figureheads. They re-shuffled the departments - they kidnapped some of the better folks from FFXI, much to our consternation, which is how XI ended up with Tanaka again.

There is a wonderful essay called "The Mythical Man Month" about how adding more people to an IT project can actually further delay the project. The mathematical model used to calculate the number of tasks and the required manpower is a Gantt chart. Part of calculations is extra time needed for communication when you borrow people from other departments, outsource, hire new people who need to be trained, etc.

Even if the entire original dev team was still on board (which they weren't) that doesn't mean that they would be able to relay all their original thought processes to any new hires through osmosis.

Anyway, it's all moot. Part of the decision to scrap the 1.0 engine was based on the fact that it wasn't DX11. The coding for DX8, 9-10, and 11 is pretty incompatible with each other. Even if they were using the original team and only the original team, and even if their spec was documented perfectly in every single line of code, they'd still have to start over from square one to recode it to DX11.

Edited, Dec 26th 2012 10:48pm by catwho
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#174 Dec 26 2012 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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IKickYoDog wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
But in spite of my optimism, I am not a fanboy.


That's cuz you iz a fanMAN.


That got a chuckle out of me.

Anyways, as the misinformation is becoming far too large for me to counter and get up in time for work, I'm going opt out of this conversation, as this just serves to show that there will always be a camp of players that are completely unforgiving, and will take any excuse to headhunt every problem that does or does not exist. (Such as the 'only shuffeling figureheads' line, I got a chuckle out of that one. Where'd you think some of Versus XIII's staff went?)

As stated before, thus far, I'm not impressed by the combat, but it's level 20. Depending on the pacing of leveling, it's forgivable that plain old grinding dos not feel luxurious at that level. Showing off some dungeon or boss content at that level will be the real measuring stick by which I'll judge the low level playability factor.
#175 Dec 27 2012 at 7:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
But in spite of my optimism, I am not a fanboy.


That's cuz you iz a fanMAN.


That got a chuckle out of me.

Anyways, as the misinformation is becoming far too large for me to counter and get up in time for work, I'm going opt out of this conversation, as this just serves to show that there will always be a camp of players that are completely unforgiving, and will take any excuse to headhunt every problem that does or does not exist. (Such as the 'only shuffeling figureheads' line, I got a chuckle out of that one. Where'd you think some of Versus XIII's staff went?)

As stated before, thus far, I'm not impressed by the combat, but it's level 20. Depending on the pacing of leveling, it's forgivable that plain old grinding dos not feel luxurious at that level. Showing off some dungeon or boss content at that level will be the real measuring stick by which I'll judge the low level playability factor.


In 1.0 a class didn't really shine until at LEAST 30, when it became a job. This fact is being sorely missed.
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#176 Dec 27 2012 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
SE did not sack the entire team and brought a new one in to replace them, they changed figure heads, and called it a day, they did hire and added new people to the original team.

Just pointing it Out! But i do believe their code could suck.... I have played SE PC games.... They are worse than bathesda.



to be fair bethesda code only sucks on PS3... their games run fine on pc and xbox
#177 Dec 27 2012 at 10:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Bethesda games are full of bugs on PC.... SE PC games are equally at fault, take for example The last Remnant... Such a gem of a game, a world full of lore, depth and rich characters.... But god does that game has bugs all over the place :(
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#178 Dec 27 2012 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Bethesda games are full of bugs on PC.... SE PC games are equally at fault, take for example The last Remnant... Such a gem of a game, a world full of lore, depth and rich characters.... But god does that game has bugs all over the place :(


I have that one as a result of buying the SE pack on Steam a while back. Might have to give it a try.
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#179 Dec 27 2012 at 10:21 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
But in spite of my optimism, I am not a fanboy.


That's cuz you iz a fanMAN.


That got a chuckle out of me.

Anyways, as the misinformation is becoming far too large for me to counter and get up in time for work, I'm going opt out of this conversation, as this just serves to show that there will always be a camp of players that are completely unforgiving, and will take any excuse to headhunt every problem that does or does not exist. (Such as the 'only shuffeling figureheads' line, I got a chuckle out of that one. Where'd you think some of Versus XIII's staff went?)

As stated before, thus far, I'm not impressed by the combat, but it's level 20. Depending on the pacing of leveling, it's forgivable that plain old grinding dos not feel luxurious at that level. Showing off some dungeon or boss content at that level will be the real measuring stick by which I'll judge the low level playability factor.


Oh please do enlighten us on such misinformation.... After all you where the one that said Square was about to go under before FFVII released.... Never heard nor read that story, but i am more than interested on you showing me the sources of this intel.... As for the rest of what i said.. Did the xeno/ogre and front mission teams not leave square-enix ? Did the producer/developer who delivered SE it's 2 perfect games not leave the company ?

And i am no SE hater, i buy their games, i bough XIII & XIII-2, **** i paid and supported XIV 1.0, i am a legacy member Smiley: glare and when SE does good, i am the first to applaud them (For example in my eyes Final Fantasy Class Zero is a masterpiece of a game and i do get at SE for not having the brains to ship the game overseas) i just don't give them compliments for stuff that they should be doing since day one. Call me unforgiving, maybe i am, but to say SE is equal to Squaresoft as far as quality delivered is just plain silly.
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#180 Dec 27 2012 at 10:24 AM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Bethesda games are full of bugs on PC.... SE PC games are equally at fault, take for example The last Remnant... Such a gem of a game, a world full of lore, depth and rich characters.... But god does that game has bugs all over the place :(


I have that one as a result of buying the SE pack on Steam a while back. Might have to give it a try.


In all honesty, is an awesome game, the story and depth of characters is great, the pacing is good, the battle system is a little bit hard to get into, it has a very nice customization system in place, a diversity of areas and huge bosses, oh and lots and lots of quests, give it a try, it might be a bit hard to get into at first, but it does pays off. You might want to use a guide, for there is a huge amount of stuff that you can miss.
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#181 Dec 27 2012 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Bethesda games are full of bugs on PC.... SE PC games are equally at fault, take for example The last Remnant... Such a gem of a game, a world full of lore, depth and rich characters.... But god does that game has bugs all over the place :(


I have that one as a result of buying the SE pack on Steam a while back. Might have to give it a try.


In all honesty, is an awesome game, the story and depth of characters is great, the pacing is good, the battle system is a little bit hard to get into, it has a very nice customization system in place, a diversity of areas and huge bosses, oh and lots and lots of quests, give it a try, it might be a bit hard to get into at first, but it does pays off. You might want to use a guide, for there is a huge amount of stuff that you can miss.


I really enjoyed The Last Remnant. I couldn't play the final/secret dungeon b/c of the 1 and only ridiculous requirement to get in there on the pc. Outside of that the game was great in my opinion. It gave me a little bit of nostalgia for how I felt about the older FF titles.

On a small note, I had no idea that square was about to go under THAT manytimes. I knew about the time just before FF 1 was released which gave the series it's namesake, but not any of the other times. Also, I actually liked Spirits Within. I still have the DVD and I purchased the soundtrack. I only ever listened to the very last song though. Everything else was too slow and quiet to really warrant listening to on the way to school.
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#182 Dec 27 2012 at 12:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah I liked Spirits Within as well, but apparently we're in the minority /highfive
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#183 Dec 27 2012 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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It was ok, just a pretty generic and mediocre sci-fi movie given the extraordinary budget. If they had spent a quarter as much to create the movie, or simply had a more compelling story, it probably would have done fine.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#184 Dec 27 2012 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
It was ok, just a pretty generic and mediocre sci-fi movie given the extraordinary budget. If they had spent a quarter as much to create the movie, or simply had a more compelling story, it probably would have done fine.


Did the budget focus on the CGI aspect? I wonder how they would do making movies with the new Luminous engine. Everything I've seen regarding it is extremely impressive.
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#185 Dec 27 2012 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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They basically shot an entire movie and rendered it in CGI simultaneously as I recall, but yes, it was the CGI aspect that cost a fortune.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#186 Dec 27 2012 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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For what it's worth, I think they did an excellent job at the time. They still look spectacular, even today.
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#187 Dec 27 2012 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree. Unfortunately, the technology was way ahead of its time in terms of seeing a return on the investment, and nowadays even though they use that technology in limited applications, it's not something they shoot entire movies with.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#188 Dec 27 2012 at 6:29 PM Rating: Default
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I did know of the time Square was about to go under, and launched Final Fantasy, and about their financial straits when Spirits Within bombed, but i never heard nor read anything about it going under between VI and VII or X ( Was X launched or developed around the same time as SW ? )

Was the dungeon you mentioned in TLR the one where you have to release all the Remnants and do a whole list of quest ? There are some super bosses on those ones that are pretty impressive.
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#189 Dec 27 2012 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
I also loved The Last Remnant, but yes the game was buggy and I never did finish it. I ended up trading it in a while ago; maybe I will see how much it costs to download to PC.
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#191 Dec 28 2012 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
I also loved The Last Remnant, but yes the game was buggy and I never did finish it. I ended up trading it in a while ago; maybe I will see how much it costs to download to PC.


PC version eh? Always meant to play that one on 360 but ended up ditching consoles altogether. Think i'll join you on that wagon.

I'm also reminded of another game that came out around the same time (Tri-Ace, but SE published), the unfortunately named but very fun Infinite Undiscovery. Some underrated nifty game mechanics for an RPG. I liked the emphasis on acquiring new abilities that allowed you to explore the environment further.
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#192 Dec 28 2012 at 12:15 AM Rating: Good
Llester wrote:
IKickYoDog wrote:
I also loved The Last Remnant, but yes the game was buggy and I never did finish it. I ended up trading it in a while ago; maybe I will see how much it costs to download to PC.


PC version eh? Always meant to play that one on 360 but ended up ditching consoles altogether. Think i'll join you on that wagon.

I'm also reminded of another game that came out around the same time (Tri-Ace, but SE published), the unfortunately named but very fun Infinite Undiscovery. Some underrated nifty game mechanics for an RPG. I liked the emphasis on acquiring new abilities that allowed you to explore the environment further.


Ya I played it on 360 originally. I tried Infinite Undiscovery as well, but got to some area I had to clear and the game froze on me every time. Boo. I really liked Lost Odyssey also. Kinda throwback, but still fun with a good story.
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#193 Dec 28 2012 at 12:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Infinite Undiscovery, Lost Odyssey, and Tales of Vesperia are probably the best JRPGs on the 360 imo...heh

#194 Dec 28 2012 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Magna Carta 2, Lost Odyssey and Tales ov Vasperia IMO are the best RPGS on the 360.

Magna Carta 2 is a very underrated game, yet it uses the same system as FFXII to it's fullest
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#195 Dec 28 2012 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
Magna Carta 2, Lost Odyssey and Tales ov Vasperia IMO are the best RPGS on the 360.

Magna Carta 2 is a very underrated game, yet it uses the same system as FFXII to it's fullest


Crap, I forgot about Magna Carta 2 again...yeah, that's high up there on my list too, for consoles, I'm more of a Sony person, but I do have some favorites on the 360
#196 Dec 28 2012 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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just downloaded Last Remnants Demo off steam. ran up to the first monster i saw, waited way too long for a "battle screen" (ugh) to load, watched my characters fight (looked cool but i didn't feel particularly in control of...anything), waited through another load screen while working on an illustration, exited game.

Decided to buy Witcher2 Enhanced for 11.99 instead.
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#197 Dec 28 2012 at 3:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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How is it I've not heard of Magna Carta 2? Might have a reason to turn my XBox on again.
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#198 Dec 28 2012 at 4:07 AM Rating: Decent
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It didn't get much media attention, due to the first game...but it's pretty good, and has some skilled/well known VAs in it
#199 Dec 28 2012 at 5:20 AM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
just downloaded Last Remnants Demo off steam. ran up to the first monster i saw, waited way too long for a "battle screen" (ugh) to load, watched my characters fight (looked cool but i didn't feel particularly in control of...anything), waited through another load screen while working on an illustration, exited game.

Decided to buy Witcher2 Enhanced for 11.99 instead.


If i remember correctly, in TLR when you get long load times, just ALT+CTRL+Delete go to process chose TLR, go to affinity set one of the proccessors off, wait a min, set it back again, and you are done. Load times should be normal now.

And yes you are not 100% in control of your teams(Which i kinda hate/like) like i said, the game is buggy :( But if you can get it to work correctly it is a gem of a game, and what i like most of the title, is that it shows that there is still some talent in SE, they designed an entire world/races/characters from the ground up, most of the time since SE does a lot remakes and continuations they do the same race/world type thing, but on this one, totally brand new.

I like the cat race, with 6 arms :) 6 wielding swords is badass Smiley: lol

As for Magna Carta 2, i din't get that much coverage because of the first game, which was an alright game, this one is a brand new game, so no need to replay the first one, really good visuals, i like the art direction for obvious reasons. Solid RPG.
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#200 Dec 28 2012 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Bethesda games are full of bugs on PC.... SE PC games are equally at fault, take for example The last Remnant... Such a gem of a game, a world full of lore, depth and rich characters.... But god does that game has bugs all over the place :(


Agreed, but this was due to SE fumbling it's use of the Unreal engine.

Heck, part of the reasons why 1.xx floundered so badly was trying to force using Crystal Tools in an MMO environment - which caused client limitations up the wazoo.

I really did enjoy the combat and development systems of Last Remnant though. That game deserves a spiritual sequel with its bugs fixed.

Oh, and while it dosen't cover the whole of the history of Squaresoft/Enix in particular, especially recent history, check out this old video series by Game Trailers. It does a great job of showing how the series evolved before SE's recent troubles.

Edited, Dec 28th 2012 8:19am by Hyrist
#201 Dec 28 2012 at 8:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I kind of agree and understand the problem SE had with The Last Remnant, as far as it being a foreign engine that they did not develop, but having played almost all of SE PC games, they all have two things in common, great novel ideas overall, and a a huge bug problem and bad optimization. Almost all SE PC games suffer from this, now i am way more lenient on their PC blunders, because i do believe that they are just bad at coding for PC( As far as up to XIV 1.0) Hopefully they do something about it. the PC market is huge.

And i would love if SE would do a Last Remnant remake for the ps3, with all the bugs cleaned out, a better more on hands battlesystem, and full control on class changes, that combined with the awesome story and lore of the game, is a recipe for Success. To me is one of the most fleshed out titles SE has done in the last decade (The other one being FFXII)

Thanks for the link, i am not sure if i have seen that one, or a more condenced one in youtube. Will definetly watch it.
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