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#202 Dec 28 2012 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
I kind of agree and understand the problem SE had with The Last Remnant, as far as it being a foreign engine that they did not develop, but having played almost all of SE PC games, they all have two things in common, great novel ideas overall, and a a huge bug problem and bad optimization. Almost all SE PC games suffer from this, now i am way more lenient on their PC blunders, because i do believe that they are just bad at coding for PC( As far as up to XIV 1.0) Hopefully they do something about it. the PC market is huge.


TLR's graphical engine problems weren't limited to the PC, however. I played the XBox360 version in particular and it was no less laggy and likely had more issues as there were no loop-holes through the Operating System to bypass issues.

I agree they need to tap the PC market. But the question stands on whether or not they themselves need to get better at designing PC-orientated graphics engines and clients, or weather they should just outsource the graphical development and really focus in on developing a good game.

I state this because the going trend in the past few games SE has released seemed to appeal more on the idea of creating amazing visuals, and then the game-play and story seem to suffer constantly in comparison. I believe I speak for quite a few when I say that many of us could tolerate more games like TLR (or even a downgrade to retro graphics) if it meant having really good gameplay games. I speak highly of some of their handheld titles, like Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts because the graphics took a bit of a back seat to the story due to the limitations of the medium at the time.

They haven't quite seemed to marry the two together and when it comes to priorities, I do believe most FF fans are fans of the stories they tell.
#203 Dec 28 2012 at 9:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
I state this because the going trend in the past few games SE has released seemed to appeal more on the idea of creating amazing visuals, and then the game-play and story seem to suffer constantly in comparison.


Truer words never spoken. Smiley: glare
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#204 Dec 29 2012 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I kind of agree and understand the problem SE had with The Last Remnant, as far as it being a foreign engine that they did not develop, but having played almost all of SE PC games, they all have two things in common, great novel ideas overall, and a a huge bug problem and bad optimization. Almost all SE PC games suffer from this, now i am way more lenient on their PC blunders, because i do believe that they are just bad at coding for PC( As far as up to XIV 1.0) Hopefully they do something about it. the PC market is huge.


TLR's graphical engine problems weren't limited to the PC, however. I played the XBox360 version in particular and it was no less laggy and likely had more issues as there were no loop-holes through the Operating System to bypass issues.

I agree they need to tap the PC market. But the question stands on whether or not they themselves need to get better at designing PC-orientated graphics engines and clients, or weather they should just outsource the graphical development and really focus in on developing a good game.

I state this because the going trend in the past few games SE has released seemed to appeal more on the idea of creating amazing visuals, and then the game-play and story seem to suffer constantly in comparison. I believe I speak for quite a few when I say that many of us could tolerate more games like TLR (or even a downgrade to retro graphics) if it meant having really good gameplay games. I speak highly of some of their handheld titles, like Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts because the graphics took a bit of a back seat to the story due to the limitations of the medium at the time.

They haven't quite seemed to marry the two together and when it comes to priorities, I do believe most FF fans are fans of the stories they tell.


TLR does has graphical issues on all the consoles it was released, but to me the pc version was the less troublesome one, because there are ways to fix it, and it becomes bearable, is the game unplayable ? Not at all, but is not as enjoyable, the game is still a gem in my opinion, one of the better works done by SE in the past decade as far as content, story and new direction.

That is a very good question, the problem with SE in my humble opinion, is that #1 They are not great at developing games on the PC, and they have not decided to focus on the PC market, to me they could be one of the most successful PC developers if they Wanted It. #2 When SE decides to outsource, they do not supervise the quality of what is being done by another company for them, the perfect example is "Front Mission Evolve" and "Lufia II: Curse of the Sinistrals" if they could learn to develop PC ports or games in house they could deliver some great games, for example a game like Dragon Age, is a game that i would have expected SE to make.

I agree totally with what you said on that paragraph, that is my biggest problem with the company actually, and the core of my critique of them, to me the stories told by SE, where amazing, some where simple, but the way they presented them combined with the engaging gameplay made them outshine anything anybody else could deliver. My favorite Square game is Xenogears, and it was not by any means the most graphical intense game at the time, but the story and gameplay was something that i had not experience up to that point. And yes you can speak for myself and others in that regard, i could play a 16 bit game on the PSP or DS if it was as epic as FFVI for example, the focus that SE has given graphics has been their downfall in this generation, for example XII (A perfect scored game) has amazing graphics, great gameplay, yet the storyline was lacking) XIII is the same, amazing graphics, good gameplay, but the script and story was horrible, same with XIII-2 and XIV, amazing visuals... But no essence :( Now the exception to that has been Final Fantasy Type-0 Amazing visuals, amazing gameplay, amazing story.

Now i pose this question, do you think SE has made a blunder of not focusing more attention to their other IP's and just focused on their 3 big ones (FF,KH,DQ) ?

I ask that, because back in the day Square would develop different IP's to complement their FF Release! And they would take different aproaches on those releases and next year they would use what they have learned from those releases and deliver a better FF. Now it seems they are experimenting with FF every single release they do.
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#205 Dec 29 2012 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think She's problem with PC games is their refusal to license any popular game engines and instead roll their own. Companies like Unreal and Crytek know their stuff, I can't figure out why you wouldn't want to take advantage of that. Surely the licensing costs are much lower than creating your own engine.
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#206 Dec 29 2012 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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The Last Remnant used the Unreal Engine 3, and SE has signed a long term deal with the developers of the Unreal Engine, to use Unreal Engine 3 &4.

So atleast they are moving in the right direction, now what does that means for their luminous engine, i have no idea, they just developed it.
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#207 Dec 29 2012 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
The Last Remnant used the Unreal Engine 3, and SE has signed a long term deal with the developers of the Unreal Engine, to use Unreal Engine 3 &4.

So atleast they are moving in the right direction, now what does that means for their luminous engine, i have no idea, they just developed it.


If the Luminous engine pans out it could be a big deal. Initial impressions are good, but who knows when it will translate into video games.
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#208 Dec 29 2012 at 12:46 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
The Last Remnant used the Unreal Engine 3, and SE has signed a long term deal with the developers of the Unreal Engine, to use Unreal Engine 3 &4.

So atleast they are moving in the right direction, now what does that means for their luminous engine, i have no idea, they just developed it.


If the Luminous engine pans out it could be a big deal. Initial impressions are good, but who knows when it will translate into video games.


Yes it does look good, SE has always been good at developing engines, on that note they are head and shoulders above other companies, the problem i think they have is that they do not milk their engines, they used crystal tools for how many games ? XIV, XIII/XIII-2 and maybe another one ? Yet the unreal engine has been used in probably 50+ games, every major western RPG has used the unreal engine (ME,ME2,ME3) etc etc.

I think they should start either using their engines for more than just one or 2 games (Since they spend so much time developing them, then creating the game etc etc) and do what other companies do, upgrade or mod it here and there and pump more games.

Quick question, Why was luminous engine created ? Crystal tools was a good engine for console games, was it because it was unfit for XIV ? That was my impression.
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#209 Dec 29 2012 at 3:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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<double post>

Edited, Dec 29th 2012 4:52pm by Woofdram
#210 Dec 29 2012 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Isn't this what people wanted? Mindless zerg parties, lots of explosions, visual effects and the ability to jump, cause we don't want to play FFXI-2?

Well, here we have it. It surprises me that this wasn't anticipated.

I just have to see for myself if I am going to enjoy battle in 2.0, but I fear the worst.
#211 Dec 29 2012 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately, while Crystal Tools worked out well for PS3, XIV 1.0 is proof that it's not so great as a PC platform.
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#212 Dec 29 2012 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
Isn't this what people wanted? Mindless zerg parties, lots of explosions, visual effects and the ability to jump, cause we don't want to play FFXI-2?

Well, here we have it. It surprises me that this wasn't anticipated.

I just have to see for myself if I am going to enjoy battle in 2.0, but I fear the worst.


Your bitter cynicism aside, no, this isn't what people wanted. This isn't even what SE wants as their final product, they've already said Battle calculations are all in revisions. There isn't even a viable tank in that cast of 3 classes, btw. SE ran Alpha with less than half of their available classes out, so of course battle is going to be pretty bland.

Also, blindly worshiping FFXI is just as idiotic as the knee-jerk reactions against it. For all of its good moments, it was and is still a deeply flawed game, mechanics wise.

Also, did you have a substantive point to make? Because it sounds like you just hate people who will likely wind up playing FFXIV, something I'd expect you'd have to get over before enjoying the game. I mean, you could pull it off, but I fear the worst.
#213 Dec 29 2012 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Woofdram wrote:
Isn't this what people wanted? Mindless zerg parties, lots of explosions, visual effects and the ability to jump, cause we don't want to play FFXI-2?

Well, here we have it. It surprises me that this wasn't anticipated.

I just have to see for myself if I am going to enjoy battle in 2.0, but I fear the worst.


Your bitter cynicism aside, no, this isn't what people wanted. This isn't even what SE wants as their final product, they've already said Battle calculations are all in revisions. There isn't even a viable tank in that cast of 3 classes, btw. SE ran Alpha with less than half of their available classes out, so of course battle is going to be pretty bland.

Also, blindly worshiping FFXI is just as idiotic as the knee-jerk reactions against it. For all of its good moments, it was and is still a deeply flawed game, mechanics wise.

Also, did you have a substantive point to make? Because it sounds like you just hate people who will likely wind up playing FFXIV, something I'd expect you'd have to get over before enjoying the game. I mean, you could pull it off, but I fear the worst.



not really... I "hate" FFXIV because Im sure it will be nothing like or close to FFXI with better graphics (which is pretty much what i hoped for when the game was first announced) however unlike most Ill actually PLAY it first to see if it actually hooks me and exceeds my expectations, if it DO end up liking it then good if i dont THEN ill bash it.


and umm whoever said FFXI was perfect? EVERY game is flawed lol
#214 Dec 29 2012 at 10:13 PM Rating: Default
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That's your first mistake...you want it to be FFXI with a new coat of paint. MMOs don't work that way...newer MMOs will use the newest gameplay styles, it's why we have so many games using similar gameplay to each other now, because it works.
#215 Dec 29 2012 at 10:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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(Apart from the fact that it hasn't worked yet.)
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#216 Dec 29 2012 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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Even the FFXI of today is not the FFXI of yesterday, as those of us who played it continuously can attest. XI of yore will never be back, and that's a good thing.
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#217 Dec 29 2012 at 10:45 PM Rating: Default
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How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI.
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#218 Dec 29 2012 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
"Will not be like XI" but we have the same races with different names, added a couple genders in there, and we use a lot of the same monsters. Our nation crests are similar and ability names are recycled. I was honestly disappointed when I saw so many visual similarities. Still hoping the game is good though.
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#219 Dec 29 2012 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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IKickYoDog wrote:
ability names are recycled


This isn't a "like XI" think, this is a "Final Fantasy" thing.
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#220 Dec 30 2012 at 12:01 AM Rating: Default
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The monsters are in every FF title, so are the abilities and magic spells, classes and most of the lore that XI and XIV share(Tho in XI it was way way less than it is on XIV, XI stands on its own 2 legs on this regard) as for races, one is copied from Tactics, humans have been in FF forever, as for galkas and tarus... I dunno i dislike them anyways. I always found it creepy, that SE has this thing with toddlers.
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#221 Dec 30 2012 at 1:12 AM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
Even the FFXI of today is not the FFXI of yesterday, as those of us who played it continuously can attest. XI of yore will never be back, and that's a good thing.



lol XI in its current state.. which as you said is nothing like i used to be.. is STILL better than what XIV was when it launched.. so apparently whoever "updated" FFXI to "todays standards" still did a better job than whoever made FFXIV lol.

as for that not being how MMOs work... oh really? thats odd because I dont remember everquest 2 being a WoW clone, so that MUST have been how MMOs worked when EQ2 cam after EQ1
#222 Dec 30 2012 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Did I touch a nerve, Hyrist? Look at you go!

But:

Hyrist wrote:

Your bitter cynicism aside, no, this isn't what people wanted. This isn't even what SE wants as their final product, they've already said Battle calculations are all in revisions.

Not a word about the visual aspect, so since you know exactly what SE wants, may I assume that they sure wanted your screen to be filled with explosions to the point where you can hardly see what is going on? But if you want to talk (= speculate) battle dynamics: if you think that SE will deliver something different than what they ar showing us, then I think you will be in for a disappointment. We're going to zerg till we drop, buddy. Wooooooooooo!! Who needs strategy?!

Hyrist wrote:
Also, blindly worshiping FFXI is just as idiotic as the knee-jerk reactions against it. For all of its good moments, it was and is still a deeply flawed game, mechanics wise.

Awww, is this you on your little soapbox? Cause you are sure not referring to what I had to say. And if you think you do, then think again.

Hyrist wrote:
Also, did you have a substantive point to make? Because it sounds like you just hate people who will likely wind up playing FFXIV, something I'd expect you'd have to get over before enjoying the game. I mean, you could pull it off, but I fear the worst.

I like the way you use my last line just to... get back at me? Smooth. Did you learn that in writing class, to end your work with a phrase that makes it look more substantial than it really is, namely a rant from an angry young gamer?

I made a perfectly fine point: I do not like what I see, but knowing what has been written on the forums it does not surpirse me at all. Clear enough for you?? Let me deal with FFXIV-2, alright? Now be a good kid and deal with my opinion.

Edited, Dec 30th 2012 7:10am by Woofdram
#223 Dec 30 2012 at 8:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Let's end the ******* match folks or I'll end it for you.
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#224 Dec 30 2012 at 8:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Woofdram wrote:
some stuff


Whoa, relax buddy. It's just the internet, no need to take it serious.

Ostia wrote:
How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI.


The comparison Yoshi-P made was a bit better. XI was made with the same formula as the most popular MMO at the time, Everquest. 2.0 is doing the same, this time with WoW.

In the same way that FFXI was vastly different from Everquest, I have the same hope that 2.0 will use great ideas from WoW while becoming it's very different and unique game.

Woofdram wrote:
Isn't this what people wanted? Mindless zerg parties, lots of explosions, visual effects and the ability to jump, cause we don't want to play FFXI-2?
No one "didn't want XI-2", the company would be poaching their OWN players, when they want to poach from other games. They want to gain money, not shuffle it around.
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#225 Dec 30 2012 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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not really... I "hate" FFXIV because Im sure it will be nothing like or close to FFXI with better graphics (which is pretty much what i hoped for when the game was first announced) however unlike most Ill actually PLAY it first to see if it actually hooks me and exceeds my expectations, if it DO end up liking it then good if i dont THEN ill bash it.


and umm whoever said FFXI was perfect? EVERY game is flawed lol



Sorry, I was being polite. FFXI was broken to the point where the developers had actually designed around broken and toxic mechanics rather than removing them early in the game's lifespan. This is to the point where all but a few choice jobs are considered useless beyond a few one-trick pony mechanics that would be considered unbalanced and patched in any other MMO.

Oh, should we bring up Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden again? Fights that were so poorly designed that the length of such fights reached headlines? Or how Dragoon spent four years with a broken 2hr? I won't even touch Red (headed stepchild) Mage, and that was my favorite Job class.

FFXI was 'flawed' in the way a ****** is considered 'special'. It's a word you say to not offend those who cannot face facts above their affection for the handicapped.


That said, it had some of the best story, which was what kept me around as long as it did. That's the element that matters to me in FFXIV, though the combat has to be at least tolerable, which ceased to be in FFXI.
#226 Dec 30 2012 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Woofdram wrote:

Not a word about the visual aspect, so since you know exactly what SE wants, may I assume that they sure wanted your screen to be filled with explosions to the point where you can hardly see what is going on? But if you want to talk (= speculate) battle dynamics: if you think that SE will deliver something different than what they ar showing us, then I think you will be in for a disappointment. We're going to zerg till we drop, buddy. Wooooooooooo!! Who needs strategy?!


FFXI wasn't a zerg? Since when? Everything was a zerg strat with a small caveat that held the zerg off until conditions were met. Story piece sets were the exception and they are here in FFXIV as well. Hard to call mob grinding 'strategy!' in any sense of the word, why are we expecting it from level 20 content?

But go ahead and blind yourself to that.

Also, knowing what SE wants is as simple as, you know, paying attention. There are numerous interviews, videos, letters from the producer that are pretty clear what they want with this game. I suggest you read up.


Quote:
Awww, is this you on your little soapbox? Cause you are sure not referring to what I had to say. And if you think you do, then think again.


General statement, pal, some people view FFXI like it's gospel. Those same people can have their heads checked and their reproductive rights removed. Or at the very least the rose tinted glasses taken off. There was a lot that FFXI got right, but it wasn't the battle system.


Quote:
I
I made a perfectly fine point: I do not like what I see, but knowing what has been written on the forums it does not surpirse me at all. Clear enough for you??


Yep. And that's all you needed to say instead of walking in here trying to act like some snarky baddass. You got what you gave Woofdram, which was the point of duplicating your last line. You want to act like sarcastic trash, you'll get treated like sarcastic trash. I'm far beyond my tolerance limit of idiots who say "I told you so." before anythings actually happened yet. You want to send out red flags to tell SE to pull back on some of the crap you see, fine. I'm good with that. But do it in a manner that looks like feedback.

Insults are not critique, nor are they expressions that should be tolerated. As long as they do (*This includes first posts, Wint, not several posts down the chain.) I will continue to use them as a form of lash-back to pull attention to this underlining forum flaw.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as my disposition, as you're new here, let me explain:

There was a section of the gaming community, even FFXI, and FFXIV's community, that's been trying to pull developers closer to the discussion table in terms of and openness and feedback at all levels of development. Sadly, for SE, it's taken a failed MMO for them to consider it, but oddly it's been working. In fact, many of your complaints you addressed have already been discussed with developers on the matter, which is why these videos come with a disclaimer about the battle system.

People who like to trash talk gaming companies, developers, and the community surrounding them, are severely counterproductive to this process. I agree with the running theory that it was, in fact the flack on BioWare Social Network, as well as other community over Dragon Age 2, and Mass Effect 3 endings that ultimately caused the BioWare Doctors - some of the best minds of this generation's gaming community, to retire from the field of Video Games all together.

That equates to a bunch of self-entitled whining brats harming the gaming community as a whole because they weren't happy with an end product, and decided to make **** for people who simply wanted to create something entertaining, and whoop, screwed up. Ok, it's a game. Want it fixed, talk it out.

So yeah. I got a nerve. A really big one that a lot of people step on. Usually, so long as someone's critique is substantive, I let it go. Yours wasn't, as the "I don't like this!" comment is pointless. State what you do like or would like to see.


Edited, Dec 30th 2012 11:19am by Hyrist
#227 Dec 30 2012 at 11:22 AM Rating: Decent
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"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from
#228 Dec 30 2012 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from


And we run into FFXI's other quintessential problem: It failed to evolve away from its typecast.

WoW too was inspired by Everquest style MMOs, but time wore on, it pulled itself away from conventions and even wrote it's own. Meanwhile, FFXI was still taking queues from a game that was already well into its age and growing out of date.

Granted, FFXI did break some ground with beseiged and campaign, but at it's core it had many problems that the crew never seemed to get addressing, and instead encouraged. Haste for one is an entirely broken and overbearing mechanic that takes precedence over all other mechanics. That's something that should have been balanced out or taken out rather than encouraging more and more haste. Heck, it is haste that created much of FFXI's zerg mechanics to begin with.

But back on topic, it is actually the repeat of this history many players are fearing when they hear WoW comparisons. Its ok to take inspiration from the thematic purpose, but Yoshida has to be prepare to evolve with the times on top of starting from a more solid foundation. The standard is going to keep rising and if ARR is going to survive the long term, they're going to have to meet it. Today's gamers aren't as forgiving as last generation.
#229 Dec 30 2012 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from


And we run into FFXI's other quintessential problem: It failed to evolve away from its typecast.

WoW too was inspired by Everquest style MMOs, but time wore on, it pulled itself away from conventions and even wrote it's own. Meanwhile, FFXI was still taking queues from a game that was already well into its age and growing out of date.

Granted, FFXI did break some ground with beseiged and campaign, but at it's core it had many problems that the crew never seemed to get addressing, and instead encouraged. Haste for one is an entirely broken and overbearing mechanic that takes precedence over all other mechanics. That's something that should have been balanced out or taken out rather than encouraging more and more haste. Heck, it is haste that created much of FFXI's zerg mechanics to begin with.

But back on topic, it is actually the repeat of this history many players are fearing when they hear WoW comparisons. Its ok to take inspiration from the thematic purpose, but Yoshida has to be prepare to evolve with the times on top of starting from a more solid foundation. The standard is going to keep rising and if ARR is going to survive the long term, they're going to have to meet it. Today's gamers aren't as forgiving as last generation.


what inspirations did WoW take from EQ other than being an MMO? WoW was casual and fast paced from day 1.. there was nothing EQ about it...

As far as Haste goes its a typical/staple FF spell thus I understand its exclusion in th game.. heck in fact its my favorite spell in the FF series (not so much in FFXI mainly because you had to rescast it every 30 secs) but yeah
#230 Dec 30 2012 at 1:40 PM Rating: Good
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Hyrist wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from


And we run into FFXI's other quintessential problem: It failed to evolve away from its typecast.

WoW too was inspired by Everquest style MMOs, but time wore on, it pulled itself away from conventions and even wrote it's own. Meanwhile, FFXI was still taking queues from a game that was already well into its age and growing out of date.

Granted, FFXI did break some ground with beseiged and campaign, but at it's core it had many problems that the crew never seemed to get addressing, and instead encouraged. Haste for one is an entirely broken and overbearing mechanic that takes precedence over all other mechanics. That's something that should have been balanced out or taken out rather than encouraging more and more haste. Heck, it is haste that created much of FFXI's zerg mechanics to begin with.

But back on topic, it is actually the repeat of this history many players are fearing when they hear WoW comparisons. Its ok to take inspiration from the thematic purpose, but Yoshida has to be prepare to evolve with the times on top of starting from a more solid foundation. The standard is going to keep rising and if ARR is going to survive the long term, they're going to have to meet it. Today's gamers aren't as forgiving as last generation.


what inspirations did WoW take from EQ other than being an MMO? WoW was casual and fast paced from day 1.. there was nothing EQ about it...

As far as Haste goes its a typical/staple FF spell thus I understand its exclusion in th game.. heck in fact its my favorite spell in the FF series (not so much in FFXI mainly because you had to rescast it every 30 secs) but yeah


I think the haste gear was more of a problem than the haste spell.
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#231 Dec 30 2012 at 4:14 PM Rating: Default
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from


Erm Actuallyl in the REAL WORLD! Tanka & Wada had stated months before the release of FFXIV, that the game was a more casual version of FFXI, they where targeting that audience, hence their now comical words of "Yes we will compete with WOW and that new Star Wars Game"

And if you think that FFXIV would have sold less by stating it was a casual game... Then you are either A.Insane or B.Crazy. The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :) EQ had its time in 1998 :) It's time to move on brah!
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#232 Dec 30 2012 at 9:08 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from


Erm Actuallyl in the REAL WORLD! Tanka & Wada had stated months before the release of FFXIV, that the game was a more casual version of FFXI, they where targeting that audience, hence their now comical words of "Yes we will compete with WOW and that new Star Wars Game"

And if you think that FFXIV would have sold less by stating it was a casual game... Then you are either A.Insane or B.Crazy. The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :) EQ had its time in 1998 :) It's time to move on brah!



so youre saying no one playing FFXI was interested in FFXIV? yeah ok thats right we definitely wanted to stick with those graphics and be hindered by "ps2 limitations": until 2050!!
#233 Dec 30 2012 at 9:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
I think She's problem with PC games is their refusal to license any popular game engines and instead roll their own. Companies like Unreal and Crytek know their stuff, I can't figure out why you wouldn't want to take advantage of that. Surely the licensing costs are much lower than creating your own engine.


To be fair Wint, the engines that SE develops are leaps and bounds ahead of anything out there. I mean, Ff10 was making better-than-Pixar quality cinematics back in the early 2000's, and was doing it all on the DVD format no less.
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#234 Dec 30 2012 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quor wrote:
Wint wrote:
I think She's problem with PC games is their refusal to license any popular game engines and instead roll their own. Companies like Unreal and Crytek know their stuff, I can't figure out why you wouldn't want to take advantage of that. Surely the licensing costs are much lower than creating your own engine.


To be fair Wint, the engines that SE develops are leaps and bounds ahead of anything out there. I mean, Ff10 was making better-than-Pixar quality cinematics back in the early 2000's, and was doing it all on the DVD format no less.


They seem to be hit or miss though, or at least not using them for more than one or two iterations of the game and we're getting some fairly cookie cutter games as a result. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the few who liked XIII and XIII-2, but its getting a little ridiculous. Those two (and I assume Lightning Returns) could be sold in the same box.

I have hope for Luminoous engine but I think we're years away from seeing that in a game.
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#235 Dec 30 2012 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
so youre saying no one playing FFXI was interested in FFXIV? yeah ok thats right we definitely wanted to stick with those graphics and be hindered by "ps2 limitations": until 2050!!


As of the upcoming expansion, Seekers of Adoulin, PS2 support's been dropped outside of Japan. It's a slow and steady process that SE is implementing, but certainly FFXI will be going long past the PS2.
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#236 Dec 31 2012 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from


Erm Actuallyl in the REAL WORLD! Tanka & Wada had stated months before the release of FFXIV, that the game was a more casual version of FFXI, they where targeting that audience, hence their now comical words of "Yes we will compete with WOW and that new Star Wars Game"

And if you think that FFXIV would have sold less by stating it was a casual game... Then you are either A.Insane or B.Crazy. The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :) EQ had its time in 1998 :) It's time to move on brah!



so youre saying no one playing FFXI was interested in FFXIV? yeah ok thats right we definitely wanted to stick with those graphics and be hindered by "ps2 limitations": until 2050!!


You are a moron.... I say "How can you as a FFXI Player expect FFXIV to be FFX1-2 when the company itself, the creater of both XI and XIV, the president, the guy that cleans the bathrooms has stated countless times that XIV will not, and shall not be XI-2, it will be a more casual game than XI"

And you reply with "Are you saying people who played XI where not interested in XIV"..... It meters not if they where interested or not, what meters is that if those that where interested in XIV to be a direct sequel to XI..... where idiots, for the company itself, said "HEY THIS WILL NOT LIKE XI"
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#237 Dec 31 2012 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
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You're fighting an un-winable war, Ostia. Duo, we all know you want a game that takes 6 years to get your level 5 gear (super high exaggeration). I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore after reading through it and having multiple other threads open in different tabs. SE is aiming towards the casual crowd because that is where the money is. Why make a hardcore game (EQ, FFXI) and maintain 50,000 subs when you can make the game appealing to 200,000 people who only have limited time and don't really care to spend 4 years of their life grinding for a weapon? Really think about it for a minute before you respond with some blanket statement of, "well, if they don't like it, don't participate in it." Not only does it create a divide with your customer base but it also creates a problem with future content. If you release content every 3 months or so and have a weapon that requires 1 year to grind, you have to scale that weapon accordingly. Do you make it super OP at release? or do you make it more powerful than the current weapons which will only be replaced within 3 months? Long gone are the days of EQ1 and FFXI (pre-Abyssia). If you want a challenge in your games, you'll find it in single players like Demon's/Dark Souls. MMOs are no longer a fan service, they are a business.
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#238 Dec 31 2012 at 6:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Seraphaniim wrote:
MMOs are no longer a fan service, they are a business.


To be fair, MMO's were always a business, the market just changed when MMO's absolutely exploded 10 years ago.

And um, I agree: FFXIV will not, and should not, be FFXI-2. I don't think its fair to draw conclusions that FFXIV will be full of zerg fights, flashy artwork, and casual gameplay (which obviously insinuates a bad game), but time will tell what we actually get come ARR. And yeah, FFXI was full of tank-and-spank zerg fights. If you were lucky, you could stand near a foot and melee. If not, you were stuck playing BLM.
#239 Dec 31 2012 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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DevilFruit wrote:
Seraphaniim wrote:
MMOs are no longer a fan service, they are a business.


To be fair, MMO's were always a business, the market just changed when MMO's absolutely exploded 10 years ago.

And um, I agree: FFXIV will not, and should not, be FFXI-2. I don't think its fair to draw conclusions that FFXIV will be full of zerg fights, flashy artwork, and casual gameplay (which obviously insinuates a bad game), but time will tell what we actually get come ARR. And yeah, FFXI was full of tank-and-spank zerg fights. If you were lucky, you could stand near a foot and melee. If not, you were stuck playing BLM.


I'll never understand people that want to go back to that style of play.

It's one of the many reasons why I shelved 11 back in the day.
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#240 Dec 31 2012 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
DevilFruit wrote:
Seraphaniim wrote:
MMOs are no longer a fan service, they are a business.


To be fair, MMO's were always a business, the market just changed when MMO's absolutely exploded 10 years ago.

And um, I agree: FFXIV will not, and should not, be FFXI-2. I don't think its fair to draw conclusions that FFXIV will be full of zerg fights, flashy artwork, and casual gameplay (which obviously insinuates a bad game), but time will tell what we actually get come ARR. And yeah, FFXI was full of tank-and-spank zerg fights. If you were lucky, you could stand near a foot and melee. If not, you were stuck playing BLM.


I'll never understand people that want to go back to that style of play.

It's one of the many reasons why I shelved 11 back in the day.


I want parts of it. I never found FFXI to be THAT hardcore. In parts, yes it was. Many of those parts I would leave behind though. For instance, the barriers for a new player to enjoy the game, like airship passes, kazham keys, chocobo license, not having a subjob at first, and needing to repeat hand-in quests to gain fame in an area just to do another quest.

These things and more just screamed chore, and scared away new players easily.

I'm hoping Yoshi-P is doing the early levels correctly (casual and user-friendly) while addign hardcore content once players are comfortable. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is the design philosophy.

As far as "tank and spanks", 1.0 showed us that Y-P LOVES his hate resets, and other things during a fight to mix it up. Moogle was a bit simple (kite and zerg, then tank) but Garuda and Ifrit were great fights that required everyone to pay attention and know what was happening or die. Most of the added content was like this as well, and Y-P didn't suddenly change his vision for FFXIV.

And if you think "hardcore is gone" you obviously never fought against the imperial invasions trying to get a silly hat at the end of the games life. It was a flashback to FFXI (and not really in a good way haha)

Imperials would spawn in an area at a random time, completely random and the wait could be upwards of 10-12 hours. Then for an unknown time, level 50 imperials were everywhere, along with a Magiteck NM and 7? other high level imperial nms and I think they all had haste and would kill you easily. You had to kill the Magiteck for a chance at the drop, but all the imperials would link so it required multiple parties for this one chance at a drop. Parties ended up cheesing the fight (Leashing) but if a proper loot system had been in place, it might have worked as intended and required jolly cooperation.
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#241 Dec 31 2012 at 10:04 AM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"How can people expect XI-2 when Square Enix blatantly said "This game will not be like XI, it will be more casual because we want to compete with Blizzard and that new star wars game" Now the game was nothing like a casual game or anything like XI, but atleast we knew from day one that i was not meant to be like XI. "

so when FFXIV was first reveled and theyshsowed the trailer and what not they said thso ewords then and there? umm no they said that AFTER the game was launched and ppl had already bought it hoping for FFXI-2 Im sur ehad they said that at day one of the game being revealed it woulda sold even LES than it did.

As for FFXI having broken mechanics.. while I agree drg 2 hour was stupid.. that made abbout as much sense as thief 2 hour being steal lol however broken fights? Umm no FFXI was designed with EQ in mind and old MMOs like EQ and others before/at the same time a sit has super long/clos eto unbeatable fights that took hours and made headlines too, thus Im sure AV and PW were on purpose to emulate experiences in the game(s) FFXI was getting its inspiration from


Erm Actuallyl in the REAL WORLD! Tanka & Wada had stated months before the release of FFXIV, that the game was a more casual version of FFXI, they where targeting that audience, hence their now comical words of "Yes we will compete with WOW and that new Star Wars Game"

And if you think that FFXIV would have sold less by stating it was a casual game... Then you are either A.Insane or B.Crazy. The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :) EQ had its time in 1998 :) It's time to move on brah!



so youre saying no one playing FFXI was interested in FFXIV? yeah ok thats right we definitely wanted to stick with those graphics and be hindered by "ps2 limitations": until 2050!!


You are a moron.... I say "How can you as a FFXI Player expect FFXIV to be FFX1-2 when the company itself, the creater of both XI and XIV, the president, the guy that cleans the bathrooms has stated countless times that XIV will not, and shall not be XI-2, it will be a more casual game than XI"

And you reply with "Are you saying people who played XI where not interested in XIV"..... It meters not if they where interested or not, what meters is that if those that where interested in XIV to be a direct sequel to XI..... where idiots, for the company itself, said "HEY THIS WILL NOT LIKE XI"




actually you also said:

"The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :)"


so yeah thats what my comment was based on
#242 Dec 31 2012 at 10:30 AM Rating: Default
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How is me saying that the majority of MMO players are not interested in XIV because of the reputation XI has, equals me saying XI players where not interested in XIV..... please enlighten me.
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#243 Dec 31 2012 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Seraphaniim wrote:
You're fighting an un-winable war, Ostia. Duo, we all know you want a game that takes 6 years to get your level 5 gear (super high exaggeration). I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore after reading through it and having multiple other threads open in different tabs. SE is aiming towards the casual crowd because that is where the money is. Why make a hardcore game (EQ, FFXI) and maintain 50,000 subs when you can make the game appealing to 200,000 people who only have limited time and don't really care to spend 4 years of their life grinding for a weapon? Really think about it for a minute before you respond with some blanket statement of, "well, if they don't like it, don't participate in it." Not only does it create a divide with your customer base but it also creates a problem with future content. If you release content every 3 months or so and have a weapon that requires 1 year to grind, you have to scale that weapon accordingly. Do you make it super OP at release? or do you make it more powerful than the current weapons which will only be replaced within 3 months? Long gone are the days of EQ1 and FFXI (pre-Abyssia). If you want a challenge in your games, you'll find it in single players like Demon's/Dark Souls. MMOs are no longer a fan service, they are a business.



funny you mention dark souls cause im playin that right now and getting pwned by the second boss.... even though i platinumed demon souls lol.


and youre incorrect i dont want a game that takes 6 years to get your level 5 gear (ye si know that was an exaggeration)I want SOME things in that game that are liek that... keyword is SOME... 90% of the game could be completely casual and fast paced while the other 10% is the "2 years to get a weapon" type stuff. and make it so that these weapons are indeed powerful (they take 2 years to get theyd better be worth it) but at the same time completely unnecessary for you to function properly.

For example FFXI relics were indeed powerful but were they necessary? I dont recall them being as such. I mean could a level 75 thf, sam or pld kick plenty of *** just fine with out a relic weapon? Indeed they could... I seen PLENTY that did.. myself included. So that extra 10% content would be more of a "im doing it because I want to" not because "i HAVE to" I fail to see how a game thats 90% casual 10% hardcore as opposed to 100% casual would fail to maintain 200,000 subs.

What I DONT want is DC universe online lol.. which takes 8 hours to get to max level (really 8 hours lmao... it takes that long to beat single player games that ARENT rpgs lol), where when you finally do get to endgame it literally consist of doing the same 10 solo quests everyday, the same 6 alerts everyday and the same 5 duos everyday (each of those things can only be done once a day.(so youre doing the same 3 things (alerts duos and solo quests) EVERYDAY) and the same 3 raids once a week (As raids can only be done once a week)

and at higher tier theres only 1 alert, 1 duo and no solo quest plus 3 raids that gives you the items you need for the higher tier equipment so at that stage of the game youre doing the same TWO things once a day everyday and the same THREE raids once a week... until you decide ok this is stupidly boring after 2 months and quit... that was my first taste with a casual MMO and thats what Im praying wont happen with my next one (FFXIV) with FFXI sure you did things a lot (sky, dynamis, sea etc etc) but the difference is i could take at LEAST twenty DIFFERENT things (as opposed to DCUO's 4) i did throughout the course of a week... THATS what i want in FFXIV.


Also one last thing is I fail to see the point of an MMO where I can solo 99% of the content... the way I look at it is ooo this new monster I just discovered or this quest/mission Im trying to complete boss just mopped the floor with me 10 times... its time to go back to town and try to rally up the troops.... bring in some cavalry.... if I dont need to do that 99% of teh time then why am I playing an MMO? whats the point of a community that i dont NEED? Just make it a single player game lol.

Just like demon/dark souls... if I cant beat a boss.. I start looking for a soul sign... I believe they made it that hard BECAUSE of that... if it were 100% single player.. Im sure i wouldnt make it very far at all in that game on my own (unless of course I used some cheap leveling tactics to over level myself)
#244 Dec 31 2012 at 10:35 AM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
How is me saying that the majority of MMO players are not interested in XIV because of the reputation XI has, equals me saying XI players where not interested in XIV..... please enlighten me.



because you didnt saythat.. you said:

"The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :)"


if youd have said "the majority of MMO players are not interested in XIV because of the REPUTATION XI has"

the first time then Id have understood your point and kept my mouth shut. considering I know a LOT of ppl who quit or wasnt interested in FFXI because it was "too hard" (lmao.. i think they just suck but yeah i know first hand that the statement you made is indeed true so I wouldnt have argued THAT point)
#245 Dec 31 2012 at 10:39 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm.... definitely don't remember posting that. I do remember my wine tasting like it went sour. Don't get loaded on whiskey and bad wine and lurk forums, kids!
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#246 Jan 01 2013 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
Quor wrote:


I'll never understand people that want to go back to that style of play.

It's one of the many reasons why I shelved 11 back in the day.


I want parts of it. I never found FFXI to be THAT hardcore. In parts, yes it was. Many of those parts I would leave behind though. For instance, the barriers for a new player to enjoy the game, like airship passes, kazham keys, chocobo license, not having a subjob at first, and needing to repeat hand-in quests to gain fame in an area just to do another quest.

These things and more just screamed chore, and scared away new players easily.

I'm hoping Yoshi-P is doing the early levels correctly (casual and user-friendly) while addign hardcore content once players are comfortable. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is the design philosophy.

As far as "tank and spanks", 1.0 showed us that Y-P LOVES his hate resets, and other things during a fight to mix it up. Moogle was a bit simple (kite and zerg, then tank) but Garuda and Ifrit were great fights that required everyone to pay attention and know what was happening or die. Most of the added content was like this as well, and Y-P didn't suddenly change his vision for FFXIV.

And if you think "hardcore is gone" you obviously never fought against the imperial invasions trying to get a silly hat at the end of the games life. It was a flashback to FFXI (and not really in a good way haha)

Imperials would spawn in an area at a random time, completely random and the wait could be upwards of 10-12 hours. Then for an unknown time, level 50 imperials were everywhere, along with a Magiteck NM and 7? other high level imperial nms and I think they all had haste and would kill you easily. You had to kill the Magiteck for a chance at the drop, but all the imperials would link so it required multiple parties for this one chance at a drop. Parties ended up cheesing the fight (Leashing) but if a proper loot system had been in place, it might have worked as intended and required jolly cooperation.


Oh, I can see what you're saying for sure. Some hardcore-style stuff is great.

But FF11 was literally that way from level 5 onward when it released. Want to level? You'd better have a BST/WHM or be one of the magic four classes (BLM/BRD/RDM/WHM) or else you're in for a long *** wait.

Then there was the gearing "requirements" which meant, for a warrior, taking a break every 3-5 levels to grind out several hundred thousand gil (or more) just to ensure you had the best gear and then hopefully a party would deign to invite you.

As I told a friend of mine, who later echoed my sentiment, with FF11, it was like you spent more time preparing to play the game than actually playing the game.

My time in 14 said things were heading in another direction, and my sense of how things are going to be in ARR is cautiously optimistic. If they can evoke the feeling I had in early WoW or that I get while questing in TOR then I'll be happy.

Edited, Jan 1st 2013 6:59pm by Quor
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#247 Jan 01 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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21,262 posts
In 2004, playing WHM was FFXI on easy mode. Great first job and I have no regrets. It was cheap, it was fairly easy, and I joined endgame just after I beat Maat at level 66. I was always in the alliance for HNM fights. I earned a reputation as a good solid healer and a level-headed player, got invited to join a CoP static, and before I was even 75 got asked to be an officer for my Dynamis shell.

BLM was just as bad as the melee jobs, though, in that every few levels you'd have to stop and grind up the gil to buy your next spells. If you picked this "easy mode" job as your first, you'd find yourself farming more than you did playing.... just like the melee jobs.

Bard was cheap to level, but **** on your inventory. It wasn't until I finished the frickin' relic horn that BRD's never-ending issues of inventory space were somewhat resolved. At one point, I had almost fifteen instruments before I decided to stop min-maxing so much and dropped down to only seven. Now I have two.

RDM could also be expensive to level (Phalanx topped a million gil when I started playing), but its key advantage over the other three "easy mode" jobs was that once it was fully tricked out, it was a viable solo job, better than any of the melee classes. Getting it tricked out to that point was quite expensive, though, and time consuming, and solo RDM at 75 was one of the few areas where a well geared skilled player really outstripped a well geared, unskilled one.

Funny, though, I don't remember that much trouble leveling up my one foray into melee jobs - actually, the third job I ever leveled, THF. There were one or two days where I flagged up to no avail, but most of the time I said "***** it", found a white mage, and built my own party.
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#248 Jan 01 2013 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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That's cause you started playing in '04 Cat. I had quit before then, when a copy of Phalanx would run you 200ish tops, and the concept of "jp onry" hadn't even been invented yet (most of my parties as WAR were with JP players, since they didn't have the same anti-WAR stigma most NA players did. Also I was polite, and not a ****, despite my lack of Japanese language).

I had a friend at that time who leveled up BLM in fishing gear. He made it to 37, so it would be a sub for his main. In fishing gear.

Meanwhile, the level 5 great axe would run you around 35,000, which is an insane amount for any first-time warrior. Farming for that meant you could buy every BLM and WHM spell from level 1 to level 20 easily.
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#249 Jan 01 2013 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
Ohhhhh online player economies. So logical and healthy.
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FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#250 Jan 01 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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1,674 posts
Quor wrote:
That's cause you started playing in '04 Cat. I had quit before then, when a copy of Phalanx would run you 200ish tops, and the concept of "jp onry" hadn't even been invented yet (most of my parties as WAR were with JP players, since they didn't have the same anti-WAR stigma most NA players did. Also I was polite, and not a ****, despite my lack of Japanese language).


I have no idea what FFXI you were playing.

http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html

Posted on 10/20/2003 wrote:
Release of NA version. On the three kingdoms the area is filled with shout and becomes heated. During the first time of international interaction, people had more positive opinions. However with the constant comments such as "PL me" "Give me Gil" "Give me item", the sexual harrasment comments, and the style of PT play where people comes in and out constantly the JP users starts to have difficulties in interating with each other, and negative opinions starts to show more. At the same time the tab translation system were implemented, personal tell such as " [Help me out] [Cap][Coffer][Thank you]" were rejected mostly and [JP ONLY] comments were added in the search comment. Till today, the amount of plead towards the need of different servers were so popular which could lead to a conclusion that merge itself were unpopular. Developers and even the President himself states "JP and NA PT and tab system were so popular that we are greatfull" (HUH!? WHA? WTF??? /dies). Such imagination who god knows where it came from are still a mystery.


Posted on 11/2003 wrote:
- Some regions had some intentional suicides (to lower that reagion's influence of given kingdome I believe), NA newbies entering the game it was often that the region were controled by beastmen. To counter this, up till level 5 the players won't be participating in the conquest. However, places such as Elsimo, Qufim and Alagon (Garliage region dunno the exact spelling) were usually conquered by beastmen.


There were issues from the very, absolute, total beginnings in 2003. And being someone who also started inside of the first month of North American release, I can definitely attest to this translation's accuracy, remembering these issues from the get go.

Edited, Jan 1st 2013 10:42pm by Satisiun
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI Character(s)
Name: Satisiun
Server: Carbuncle (RIP Gilgamesh)
Jobs: 99DRG, 99PLD, 99RDM, 99WHM | Everything else: 50-60
~Retired.~

Final Fantasy XIV Character(s)
Name: Satisiun Desain
Server(s): Sargantas (primary)
DoW/DoM/DoH/DoL: 50
#251 Jan 01 2013 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
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8,779 posts
Satisiun wrote:
Quor wrote:
That's cause you started playing in '04 Cat. I had quit before then, when a copy of Phalanx would run you 200ish tops, and the concept of "jp onry" hadn't even been invented yet (most of my parties as WAR were with JP players, since they didn't have the same anti-WAR stigma most NA players did. Also I was polite, and not a ****, despite my lack of Japanese language).


I have no idea what FFXI you were playing.

http://zeusls.llima.net/download/ffxiupdatehistory.html

Posted on 10/20/2003 wrote:
Release of NA version. On the three kingdoms the area is filled with shout and becomes heated. During the first time of international interaction, people had more positive opinions. However with the constant comments such as "PL me" "Give me Gil" "Give me item", the sexual harrasment comments, and the style of PT play where people comes in and out constantly the JP users starts to have difficulties in interating with each other, and negative opinions starts to show more. At the same time the tab translation system were implemented, personal tell such as " [Help me out] [Cap][Coffer][Thank you]" were rejected mostly and [JP ONLY] comments were added in the search comment. Till today, the amount of plead towards the need of different servers were so popular which could lead to a conclusion that merge itself were unpopular. Developers and even the President himself states "JP and NA PT and tab system were so popular that we are greatfull" (HUH!? WHA? WTF??? /dies). Such imagination who god knows where it came from are still a mystery.


Posted on 11/2003 wrote:
- Some regions had some intentional suicides (to lower that reagion's influence of given kingdome I believe), NA newbies entering the game it was often that the region were controled by beastmen. To counter this, up till level 5 the players won't be participating in the conquest. However, places such as Elsimo, Qufim and Alagon (Garliage region dunno the exact spelling) were usually conquered by beastmen.


There were issues from the very, absolute, total beginnings in 2003. And being someone who also started inside of the first month of North American release, I can definitely attest to this translation's accuracy, remembering these issues from the get go.

Edited, Jan 1st 2013 10:42pm by Satisiun


That's not how it was on Bahamut, at least not initially.

I had a number of great JP mentors, many of which spoke English, and offered their time freely for a variety of things, such as subjob items and job unlocks.

Soon as the console crowd came in, things took a downward turn, and by the time I left in fall of '03 things were well on their way to being good and truly borked. But before then, things were pretty good. Yeah, the beastmen thing was more or less spot on, with Qufim and Valkurm being the biggest offenders, but the negative attitude that pervaded most NA players wasn't there on Bahamut following the initial PC release and for several months after. Even the console crowd didn't kill it totally, at least not the initial influx. It wasn't until the summer of '03 that things started to really take a negative turn.
____________________________
Quote:
The thing about me is that apparently it's very hard to tell when I'm drunk. So I feel like I'm walking sideways on a UFO and everyone else sees me doing the robot like a pro.
- MojoVIII
i have bathed in the blood of many. my life was spent well.
feral druids do it on all fours.
The One True Prophet of Tonkism.

http://therewillbebrawl.com/
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