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#252 Jan 01 2013 at 10:29 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, my first HNM shell was NA/JP, with events during NA Friday night/JP Saturday morning, and NA Saturday night/JP Sunday morning.

The shell eventually split apart not due to language differences, but time zone differences. We couldn't run any events during the week.

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#253 Jan 01 2013 at 11:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:

Woofdram wrote:
Isn't this what people wanted? Mindless zerg parties, lots of explosions, visual effects and the ability to jump, cause we don't want to play FFXI-2?
No one "didn't want XI-2", the company would be poaching their OWN players, when they want to poach from other games. They want to gain money, not shuffle it around.


This assumes everyone that liked/would like FFXI is playing FFXI (clearly not the case, given that the population has dropped, what, 300k since peak?). The first thing they should have thought about is regaining those 300k players, not trying to emulate the success of a game (WoW) which is totally unknown in their domestic market (Japan).

Making FFXI-2 would have been the best business decision they could have possibly made.
#254 Jan 02 2013 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
How is me saying that the majority of MMO players are not interested in XIV because of the reputation XI has, equals me saying XI players where not interested in XIV..... please enlighten me.



because you didnt saythat.. you said:

"The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :)"


if youd have said "the majority of MMO players are not interested in XIV because of the REPUTATION XI has"

the first time then Id have understood your point and kept my mouth shut. considering I know a LOT of ppl who quit or wasnt interested in FFXI because it was "too hard" (lmao.. i think they just suck but yeah i know first hand that the statement you made is indeed true so I wouldnt have argued THAT point)


.... Really ? When somebody says "The majority of MMO Players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :)"

You think what ? Everything but it's reputation of being an old school styled MMO ? To the majority of MMO Players, when you mention XI, they either ask WTF is XI or they know what XI is and either laugh or cry for the same reason.... XI ? That hardcore game ?

Now if they sucked or not, is a totally different argument, but if i had to pick a group of raiders from XI or a current MMO, i would pick the ones from a Current MMO, FFXI raids where easy mode, tank and spanks <.< Look at ifrit on FFXIV, that is a normal run of the mill encounter in wow or any other game, not hard, yet for FF players, it was omg we got to move ? and coordinate ? we cannot stay in one place and cast till the next morning ? LMAO!

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#255 Jan 02 2013 at 3:31 AM Rating: Default
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Dizmo wrote:
Louiscool wrote:

Woofdram wrote:
Isn't this what people wanted? Mindless zerg parties, lots of explosions, visual effects and the ability to jump, cause we don't want to play FFXI-2?
No one "didn't want XI-2", the company would be poaching their OWN players, when they want to poach from other games. They want to gain money, not shuffle it around.


This assumes everyone that liked/would like FFXI is playing FFXI (clearly not the case, given that the population has dropped, what, 300k since peak?). The first thing they should have thought about is regaining those 300k players, not trying to emulate the success of a game (WoW) which is totally unknown in their domestic market (Japan).

Making FFXI-2 would have been the best business decision they could have possibly made.


Not really, the chances of getting everybody from XI into XI-2 are very slim, people that still play XI, have an emotional bond with the game and the progress they had acquired in that game, is like people that still play EQ1.... They will not leave the game, why make a game where you will not get 100% of the players from the game is supposed to succeed ? Even if you get half of the players of XI, that still what ? 150k.... That is a sad number LOL, Spent 50+ million dollars, to draw 150k players... yeah! success
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#256 Jan 02 2013 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
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It would also leave a bitter taste in peoples mouths. You think people get angry when you make a new dungeon with gear that overshadows the top endgame gear? Try that with a character someones been playing for 7 years and tell me how it went.
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#257 Jan 02 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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I do not know how this thread trickled into Square history and best rpg of decade on 360. Yes, alot of development talent has left. But this is happening to all companies not just Square-Enix. They still have two big shots in Yuji Hori and Hiroyuki Ito(Their best talentwise as far as I'm concerned). They still have their major artist in Yoshida and Nomura with Kamikokuryo coming up strong. They still have many of their good composers. They still have Kitase who I believe works best when he collaborates with Ito. Even Hiromichi Tanaka is a well respected developer in Square's past. I think a huge problem is that some of their development staff is getting pushed into areas of development where they don't excel. I think Yoshi P is going to do pretty well with the company in the producer/director role. Where is Hiroyuki Ito? He played a huge part in the most critically acclaimed Final Fantasies according to review sites. They should hire new meat in the producer/director section and stop moving developers from their core strength. Maybe they should headhunt Fumito Ueda?

Square-Enix has dropped off being the best in the business a bit. But it's not because they just lost alot of talent. Alot of companies have stepped up their level of quality as well. It is not uncommon to see many rpgs nowdays rating near the 9/10 review scores.

Also I disagree with the best rpgs made by japanese companies on 360 this decade. The top three in my book are Tales of Vesperia, Dark Souls, Lost Odyssey being third. But that's only because jrpgs in general were not super great on the 360. Lost Odyssey borrowed a mechanic from Legend Of Dragoon, the magic system was as barebones as you can get, and it just felt archaic like a stripped down Final Fantasy. If it weren't for the decent story, good pacing and great music, I maight have fallen asleep playing at times. I still love Sakaguchi though and The Last Story shows that he still has the rpg intuition. TLR was above average to good but not great. I enjoyed the scale and layout of the game but I never got an "Oh ****/jaw dropped" playing it.

I agree they should milk the Luminous Engine for 10-20 titles at least. So they can focus on development and not the tech. Also while I had fun playing XIII and XIII-2. I hope we get no more sequels in Final Fantasy unless it is the epitome of being well received by fans and critics alike.
#258 Jan 02 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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^^^ The reason why SE is not as successful as before, is directly linked to the loss of talent, the decline in quality can be traced back to sakaguchi's departure, not only was he the creator of Final Fantasy, but he had the talent and sense of knowing who of his personel worked well with each other, for example you yourself mentioned ito and kitase, those two are my personal favorites who still work for the company, and when they work together, they create Classics! Sakaguchi know how good ito was, that's why he paired him with Yazmat to created FFT another classic, kitase is a good writer, but gets absorbed into the scenarios and makes the games feel like a movie or a book, with ito on his side, they make interactive books or movies, look at FFVI for example. Look at the creator of Xenogears, left square because they screwed his gem of a game, created Xenosaga and Xenoblade (The best JRPG ) title in the last 5 years, and you can make the argument for best Jrpg of the decade. Sakaguchis The Last Story, is a very well made game too, certainly feels more like a FF than FFXIII.

Dark souls is not a 360 exclusive so i don't know why you mention it, when we are talking about 360 only titles :/
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#259 Jan 02 2013 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Xenoblade (The best JRPG ) title in the last 5 years

Rate ups for this. Working on a 100% completion run right now, should be done in... 3 years or so.
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#260 Jan 04 2013 at 4:39 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Ostia wrote:
How is me saying that the majority of MMO players are not interested in XIV because of the reputation XI has, equals me saying XI players where not interested in XIV..... please enlighten me.



because you didnt saythat.. you said:

"The majority of MMO players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :)"


if youd have said "the majority of MMO players are not interested in XIV because of the REPUTATION XI has"

the first time then Id have understood your point and kept my mouth shut. considering I know a LOT of ppl who quit or wasnt interested in FFXI because it was "too hard" (lmao.. i think they just suck but yeah i know first hand that the statement you made is indeed true so I wouldnt have argued THAT point)


.... Really ? When somebody says "The majority of MMO Players where and are still not interested in FFXIV for one reason.... FFXI :)"

You think what ? Everything but it's reputation of being an old school styled MMO ? To the majority of MMO Players, when you mention XI, they either ask WTF is XI or they know what XI is and either laugh or cry for the same reason.... XI ? That hardcore game ?

Now if they sucked or not, is a totally different argument, but if i had to pick a group of raiders from XI or a current MMO, i would pick the ones from a Current MMO, FFXI raids where easy mode, tank and spanks <.< Look at ifrit on FFXIV, that is a normal run of the mill encounter in wow or any other game, not hard, yet for FF players, it was omg we got to move ? and coordinate ? we cannot stay in one place and cast till the next morning ? LMAO!



I think the hardest part about XI raids were forming the groups themselves, and often times you'd have to deal with some kind of language barrier just to get the right job mix in there. Coordinating anything after that, let alone teleporting or getting everyone to meet up was a hassle as well. If WoW-like coordination were mixed in there, then nothing would ever get done...

On the flip side, i understand the nostalgia associated with XI when things went right. We would make lots of progress, get gear/items, and made new friends. Sadly, this game was a very polarizing give and take. Not to mention in the early days, making gil was a very laboring process. But i have to agree with you in the end, XIV needs to take a more modern approach if they want broad appeal. Simply recapturing all of the XI players wont be enough to make this franchise survive.
#261 Jan 05 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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balishag wrote:

I think the hardest part about XI raids were forming the groups themselves, and often times you'd have to deal with some kind of language barrier just to get the right job mix in there. Coordinating anything after that, let alone teleporting or getting everyone to meet up was a hassle as well. If WoW-like coordination were mixed in there, then nothing would ever get done...

On the flip side, i understand the nostalgia associated with XI when things went right. We would make lots of progress, get gear/items, and made new friends. Sadly, this game was a very polarizing give and take. Not to mention in the early days, making gil was a very laboring process. But i have to agree with you in the end, XIV needs to take a more modern approach if they want broad appeal. Simply recapturing all of the XI players wont be enough to make this franchise survive.


I remember taking 14 hours to get a Soboro-Sukihiro. I was tired of joining Shout groups that disbanded after one person got it so I made my own....

Well it took about 3 hours just to max an alliance. I got mine on the second or third kill, but I promised that everyone would get one. Of course, this didn't stop other people from dropping once they got theirs, which meant replacing people, who then wanted one....

Yeah... never again.
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#262 Jan 05 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Seraphaniim wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Xenoblade (The best JRPG ) title in the last 5 years

Rate ups for this. Working on a 100% completion run right now, should be done in... 3 years or so.



lol Im sure 100% isnt THAT bad.... 200 hours tops maybe >.> unless youre one of those ppl who 100% means getting max amount of every items too.. and not just "beating all bosses, areas and getting the best weapons/armor for your group"


"Not to mention in the early days, making gil was a very laboring process."


So youre saying now everyone in FFXI can be millionaires overnight? (or in FFXIV for that matter)? Im sure making money in either game is still a laboring process... from what I hear about FFXI post abyssea is gil isnt necessary anymore since 99% of the new equipment you get 75+ is rare/ex

Edited, Jan 5th 2013 10:33am by DuoMaxwellxx
#263 Jan 05 2013 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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lol Im sure 100% isnt THAT bad.... 200 hours tops maybe >.> unless youre one of those ppl who 100% means getting max amount of every items too.. and not just "beating all bosses, areas and getting the best weapons/armor for your group"

Extreme exaggeration. The main story itself is suppose to be 80-100 hours of gameplay but trying to complete every side quest, unlock skill trees, complete the items list (collectepedia), etc. might push it up to 200 hours. Anyways...

/thread derailing
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#264 Jan 05 2013 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
So youre saying now everyone in FFXI can be millionaires overnight? (or in FFXIV for that matter)? Im sure making money in either game is still a laboring process... from what I hear about FFXI post abyssea is gil isnt necessary anymore since 99% of the new equipment you get 75+ is rare/ex


Gil in XI is easy if you have a job at cap and the proper expansions. Gil is very necessary if you plan on having gear you'd be expected to have if you are a career [insert job here].

Even jobs that are considered solo jobs use a fair amount of gear that will set you back tens of millions of gil. ****, you could completely remove the rest of the gear and just look at the weapons. Empyrean and Relic weapons cost upward of 200 mil just to get the basic 99 upgrade. Just because something is R/E doesn't mean it doesn't cost time(read: money).
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#265 Jan 06 2013 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
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Quor wrote:
That's cause you started playing in '04 Cat. I had quit before then, when a copy of Phalanx would run you 200ish tops, and the concept of "jp onry" hadn't even been invented yet (most of my parties as WAR were with JP players, since they didn't have the same anti-WAR stigma most NA players did. Also I was polite, and not a ****, despite my lack of Japanese language).


Quor wrote:
Soon as the console crowd came in, things took a downward turn, and by the time I left in fall of '03 things were well on their way to being good and truly borked. But before then, things were pretty good. Yeah, the beastmen thing was more or less spot on, with Qufim and Valkurm being the biggest offenders, but the negative attitude that pervaded most NA players wasn't there on Bahamut following the initial PC release and for several months after. Even the console crowd didn't kill it totally, at least not the initial influx. It wasn't until the summer of '03 that things started to really take a negative turn.


Look, not to be an *** here but either you not telling the full story or I call BS. NA PC release was like end of Oct 03 if I remember correctly, need to find my box and receipt. NA PS2 dropped around Apr 04. Unless you were playing on the JP client on a JP PS2 or had an import JP PC copy and were playing since the end of '02, either you didn't play at all or only 2 months tops. At that point, that was hardly enough time to give the game a chance.

I started on RDM and wished I hadn't at times. Every few levels I'd have to stop and farm for spells and gear. It wasn't fun at times and felt like a job, but I just worked through it. Maybe coming up from the UO/EQ days prepped me for endless farming as part of the game and I was used to going on "SLOWWW" mode to the point of not seeing anything wrong with it. Do I want to go back to those days? **** no, but in the same breath I don't want **** handed to me cause I killed 3 bees and rabbit. Quest hubs (ala WoW/Rift) make the game Single-player-mode in my mind...destroying any chance of meeting with people. Just grouping for instanced raids/events seems so impersonal, more so when you have part of the game do it for you.

I don't see anything wrong with having content that takes time to complete, aka weapons/gear. But here's the point, it must be the type of items that the player base doesn't use for it's yardstick on picking players. Using FFXI as an example, relic weapons used to be the "Oh ****, dude has a <insert relic>! We going to rock this ****!" rarity. But at no point was it expected that every <insert random DD job> have one, minus some top tier LSs. It hasn't been until recently that almost every swinging **** has a relic/mythic/empy weapon because SE caved and made them stupidly easy to obtain. To fix their errors, SE designed stupidly gimicky fights to counter the fact the small groups can destroy anything placed infront of them. Did it make the game fun to be steam-rolling content? Sure, but everything became too easy and peeps started quitting again since they were finishing content faster than SE could add anything worthwhile. The content they did add was so heaving on time limits and gimmicks, that you were almost forced to use 3rd party apps just to complete it.

As for FFXIV, I believe you'll be forced to do group XP parties at some point. Given that the quests won't reset if you change jobs, you'll have Guildleves or grind for XP. Unless you've saved up the max on Guildleves, it will either be solo grind or grouping. I think that should work out half-way decent enough. I guess it will be a 'watch and wait' thing in the end.
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#266 Jan 06 2013 at 7:02 AM Rating: Default
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^^ Stay on XI please, your kind will only slow us down.
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#267 Jan 06 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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klausneck wrote:
Do I want to go back to those days? **** no, but in the same breath I don't want sh*t handed to me cause I killed 3 bees and rabbit. Quest hubs (ala WoW/Rift) make the game Single-player-mode in my mind...destroying any chance of meeting with people. Just grouping for instanced raids/events seems so impersonal, more so when you have part of the game do it for you.


I agree completely but, let's be honest, usually a quest wouldn't have you killing 3 bees and a rabbit: they'd just have you kill 4 bees and be done with it. Smiley: tongue
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#268 Jan 06 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
^^ Stay on XI please, your kind will only slow us down.


In your race to sit at 50 while SE takes 4 months to add another 1-hour raid that you finish the following weekend? Let me tell you something that might improve your experience of MMORPGs in general: there is no race -- and, if there were, then the finish line only looks like boredom and quitting.

I believe that the other poster makes some very good points, and the idea of "relic rarity" seems very astute. Such lofty goals give hardcore players content that takes a year or more to complete, yet the rewards are so rare that such gear is never expected to appear on the average player. Really, I don't see how this isn't one area in which both parties are satisfied, provided the content is actually so difficult to get that it remains rare.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
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