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Alpha Video #8: Instanced DungeonsFollow

#52 Dec 27 2012 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
Hmm, first video I have seen lately. I have to agree that the flashies are over-done. Tone down just a bit so we can see what is going on please.

The dungeon looks great IMO. The gameplay does look pretty basic (with 4 lvl 20's putting the beatdown on a 17 boss). I expect the balancing of enemies is currently an ongoing process. I would play the game shown here to get to higher levels with greater challenges.

Let's just hope that the challenge the have in mind is not dodging an Ifrit eruption with a crappy hit box system that is not tuned to the visuals on the screen.

I want to be challanged by the battle, not the UI.


I'd agree with this, only I blame that 1 second lag between what we see on the screen and when it actually happens according to the game. If that 1 second lag wasn't there ifrit would have been easy peasy for my LS. We almost had him down several times even with that blasted lag, only to no avail. I seemed to always miss the win while I was at work. They ended up beating him twice for 2 relic weapons for the 7 or 8 people who were practicing him on a regular basis.
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#53 Dec 27 2012 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:

1.0 had tons of non-instanced dungeons. Many were beastmen strongholds, with very tough mobs that dropped coffer keys. They were tiered (bronze silver gold key) and some great stuff would come out of these coffers.

Many of us would regularly solo to farm the bronze key from Natalan to get a chance at Sentinel's armguards because they were the **** and sold well, and were meldable, which made for really great gear. If you wanted higher tiered chests you needed at least 4 if not 8 just to get past the gates in the stronghold, not to mention kill the nms that held them.

These interactions existed in 1.0, I see no reason for them to instance everything. IN FACT, one of the MAIN reasons for 2.0 was because they HAD to instance many things that they would have rathered be open-world, but the graphics engine couldn't display more than 30-40 characters at a time.

One of the endgame events, Hamlet, was designed to be an open-world defense event, like Campaign or Besieged. The engine couldn't handle it so they had to make it an boring instance. They said this and more, that this would be open world in 2.0, etc, they would add additional ones like defending other cities, etc.

The value of instanced content is that the developers can create a contained experience. They can guarantee these enemies wont be killed by another party and tailor the difficulty. I think people should stop yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater.


yepyepyep. couldn't have said it better myself. Those beastman strongholds kind of sucked in practice, as I mentioned in another thread. Loved rushing in my first time, seeing no mobs, dying an ungraceful death, then mobs appearing around my corpse. Thanks SE!

But if the tech had worked, that stuff would have been pretty fun. And sometimes it did kind of work. Think it depended on the Stronghold/how many mobs were there/how many players etc. Been awhile. Never got around to Hamlet, but am looking forward to the open-world versrion planned for ARR. Especially because this time around i'm leveling at least one crafting and gathering profession now that its fun/streamlined. Or, uh, appears to be. Yeah. That.

And your last statement is sort of a double edged sword. Yes the devs have more control over the content, but you lose the unpredictability that many gamers enjoy. Many however, do not enjoy that.

Random aside: think i remember your name from the XI dragoon forums waaayyy back in the day?
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#54 Dec 27 2012 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
Louiscool wrote:

1.0 had tons of non-instanced dungeons. Many were beastmen strongholds, with very tough mobs that dropped coffer keys. They were tiered (bronze silver gold key) and some great stuff would come out of these coffers.

Many of us would regularly solo to farm the bronze key from Natalan to get a chance at Sentinel's armguards because they were the **** and sold well, and were meldable, which made for really great gear. If you wanted higher tiered chests you needed at least 4 if not 8 just to get past the gates in the stronghold, not to mention kill the nms that held them.

These interactions existed in 1.0, I see no reason for them to instance everything. IN FACT, one of the MAIN reasons for 2.0 was because they HAD to instance many things that they would have rathered be open-world, but the graphics engine couldn't display more than 30-40 characters at a time.

One of the endgame events, Hamlet, was designed to be an open-world defense event, like Campaign or Besieged. The engine couldn't handle it so they had to make it an boring instance. They said this and more, that this would be open world in 2.0, etc, they would add additional ones like defending other cities, etc.

The value of instanced content is that the developers can create a contained experience. They can guarantee these enemies wont be killed by another party and tailor the difficulty. I think people should stop yelling 'fire' in a crowded movie theater.


yepyepyep. couldn't have said it better myself. Those beastman strongholds kind of sucked in practice, as I mentioned in another thread. Loved rushing in my first time, seeing no mobs, dying an ungraceful death, then mobs appearing around my corpse. Thanks SE!

But if the tech had worked, that stuff would have been pretty fun. And sometimes it did kind of work. Think it depended on the Stronghold/how many mobs were there/how many players etc. Been awhile. Never got around to Hamlet, but am looking forward to the open-world versrion planned for ARR. Especially because this time around i'm leveling at least one crafting and gathering profession now that its fun/streamlined. Or, uh, appears to be. Yeah. That.

And your last statement is sort of a double edged sword. Yes the devs have more control over the content, but you lose the unpredictability that many gamers enjoy. Many however, do not enjoy that.

Random aside: think i remember your name from the XI dragoon forums waaayyy back in the day?


Oh so you watched the gathering/crafting video they released? ;) Hamlet was horrid when it comes to getting the drops you needed for the relic quest if you didn't have a good party to depend on. If you had to do all that by yourself, you'd have to do it many more times than necessary. It took my LS 2 months of 5 hours a day everyday of hamlets to get around 30 of us all 9 of our beastman seals for that quest. by the time we made it to ifrit extreme we were down to 11 :( It pains me to think that we spent so much time helping people that ultimately had quit the game until 2.0 or decided they wanted to move ahead of us and thus essentially quit the LS.
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#55 Dec 27 2012 at 8:05 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
A definite improvement in the zone layout department.
The combat however... well... hmm.


Combat, however, what?

What can be said in this video that wasn't said in the last thread? What SPECIFICALLY, are you referring to? They don't even have a full hot bar of actions yet, and they have 3 jobs to choose from, none of which are even the slightest bit of a tank.

It looks FINE, it looks better than 1.0, actions are flashier, fights are a good length, it looks fun.



Hmmm, I have to disagree with most of what you said, and NOT just for the sake of argument.

Actions being flashier isn't always a good thing. In fact it usually isn't. The party had what? Four people? It was a fricking fireworks show. Imagine a group of 8 or more? It would just be absolutely absurd.

Fights are of good length. Well, clearly this is 100% subjective, but in my case and I know there are MANY who feel the same way... The two biggest things that would keep me away from becoming a dedicated player of his game are:

A. 5 second battles where your party is forced to run around like chickens with their heads cutoff in every direction non-stop.

B. As a consequence of A., this type of party structure leads to decreased tendency to party and increased tendency to solo. This is not a good thing no matter how you chalk it up.

I don't mind having to run around every once in a while, however I feel like the whole camp-mode of XI was how it should be. It really gave you a chance to have good length battles (30 seconds to several minutes generally) and it also gave you a chance to fraternize with your fellow party members. Which was absolutely the best part of XI.

#56 Dec 27 2012 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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It's only absurd if the fireworks cause the game to lag or fill the screen with so many flashes that they blind visibility of the enemies.

That said, I suspect a lot of people complained about the over the top animations and I wouldn't be surprised if SE is dialing them down for beta or the final release.
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#57 Dec 27 2012 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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They'll definitely cause lag and visibility problems, but I also agree that to some degree, less is more. If these are only level 20 abilities, they shouldn't be so flashy. That kind of flash should be reserved for those really powerful, eye-catching abilities.
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#58 Dec 27 2012 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
Random aside: think i remember your name from the XI dragoon forums waaayyy back in the day?


That was definitely me :D

je32827morenumbershere2737 wrote:
Actions being flashier isn't always a good thing. In fact it usually isn't. The party had what? Four people? It was a fricking fireworks show. Imagine a group of 8 or more? It would just be absolutely absurd.

Fights are of good length. Well, clearly this is 100% subjective,


They went over the top, but you probably didn't see the 1.0 animations. I'll take ANYTHING after those. EVERY single ws until your jobs final WS was the same animation, the same effect, and barely noticeable. Until they added BLM spells, the spell animations were dull as dishwater.

You couldn't even tell when someone was casting raise unless you were reading your chat log.

So, they could stand to tone it down a bit, yes, but I would rather this than what it was before. As for fight length, I was judging the length based on level difference. They are fighting DC-EMs, it should be quick.

Earlier I stated that, according to beta road map, level sync isn't in the game yet. I am assuming this is not a level 20 dungeon, or that this would be tougher when level sync is in the game.

Even more-so, when all jobs are in the beta. It's difficult to make challenging content with DRG BRD and WHM. These are the 3 squishiest jobs in the game, and I would classify Drg and Brd as glass cannons (though bard is more like a glass pistol..).

Lastly, Drg and Bard are terrible at AoE. When they add in the aoe powerhouses that are War and Blm, these fights would be a joke. Basically, this had BETTER be dumbed down for the available jobs.

Edited, Dec 27th 2012 11:16pm by Louiscool
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#59 Dec 27 2012 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
My issue is the battle system hardly seems changed from 1.0, guess we'll just have to wait some more.
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#60 Dec 27 2012 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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After watching the Alpha videos, my interest for the game came back, and this dungeon video really increased said interest, simply because, while instances can be bad, it means I won't be fighting for mobs, which I like, so as long as they handle em right, they're fine by me. Seeing as I plan on playing the ps3 version of the game, I think that instances will help reduce lag on the ps3 too, simply because instances allow only groups/raids to show up, so less crowded areas=less strain on the ps3 haha

As for the battle system itself, it doesn't bug me, it's what I'm used to, and for console MMOs, that's actually what I prefer, since if I play an action game for hours on end, or even one where I have to move around constantly, my fingers end up getting tired/end up cramping heh. Plus, at least some of the attacks we saw were flashy
#61 Dec 27 2012 at 11:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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kainsilv wrote:
Interesting no one has mentioned Shposhae. This was a low level non-instanced dungeon. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I even managed to form some leveling parties there. In large part I believe Yoshi will steer clear of this type of dungeon in 2.0 because people in 1.0 did not use this dungeon. It was mostly visited by level 50 players helping their friends get gear.

I guess we will know for certain when the content finder is implemented if this is something they have even considered. The fact that we know the content finder will cross servers leans in favor of my hypothesis. There may be a same server option if they add content along the lines of what is being discussed here.


The only reason is because SE released it far too late in 1.0's life that the majority of people actually playing couldn't really utilize the dungeon for what it's worth. My brother and his gf joined at the time of it's opening and got to use it and the first thing they said?

"This feels like FFXI in a good way, going to a dungeon to level and fight some NMs while finding chests..**** it's almost like a FF game."

Then when they hit end-game, they were bored to tears and wondered why all dungeons weren't like Shposhae, especially since 9.9/10 you get really nothing out of chests not to mention the boss itself unless you sped run it.

#62 Dec 27 2012 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Hopefully we get more end game dungeons then throughout the months after launch. I'm not expecting Rift update speeds, but one after a couple of months isn't too much to ask I think, unless they only plan on adding more dungeons through expansions
#63 Dec 28 2012 at 12:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
They'll definitely cause lag and visibility problems, but I also agree that to some degree, less is more. If these are only level 20 abilities, they shouldn't be so flashy. That kind of flash should be reserved for those really powerful, eye-catching abilities.


I tend to agree. I had no problem with the 1.0 animations per se, there just wasn't nearly enough variety, and ofc they were way out of sync. They were simple at first though, and started to look more impressive as you got higher level skills (in some cases). Then you got to say, 50PGL and saw your whole screen nuked by Simian Thrash.

I do think there's a bit too much particle effect happening too early. It leaves little room for visual growth.
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#64 Dec 28 2012 at 12:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree on the particle effect thing, but we'll see...SE has always been on top with their particle effects heh.

I'm curious about the new hand-to-hand animations, since I'm trying to avoid spoiling myself too much, even with simple things like old 1.0 animations...a major factor for me is having characters that look cool/good looking, be it in terms of armor, or attack animations heh...and seeing the Dragoon (or was that Lancer?) attack animations, I have faith in Pugilist/Monk
#65 Dec 28 2012 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
Kachi wrote:
They'll definitely cause lag and visibility problems, but I also agree that to some degree, less is more. If these are only level 20 abilities, they shouldn't be so flashy. That kind of flash should be reserved for those really powerful, eye-catching abilities.


I tend to agree. I had no problem with the 1.0 animations per se, there just wasn't nearly enough variety, and ofc they were way out of sync. They were simple at first though, and started to look more impressive as you got higher level skills (in some cases). Then you got to say, 50PGL and saw your whole screen nuked by Simian Thrash.

I do think there's a bit too much particle effect happening too early. It leaves little room for visual growth.



I think we can all mostly agree some happy medium is in order between 1.0 and what has been presented thus far for ARR.
#66 Dec 28 2012 at 2:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
My issue is the battle system hardly seems changed from 1.0, guess we'll just have to wait some more.


Smiley: dubious
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#67 Dec 28 2012 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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From what I saw, the battle system changed quite a bit from 1.0...at least when I beta tested it...
#68 Dec 28 2012 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
kainsilv wrote:
Interesting no one has mentioned Shposhae. This was a low level non-instanced dungeon. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I even managed to form some leveling parties there. In large part I believe Yoshi will steer clear of this type of dungeon in 2.0 because people in 1.0 did not use this dungeon. It was mostly visited by level 50 players helping their friends get gear.

I guess we will know for certain when the content finder is implemented if this is something they have even considered. The fact that we know the content finder will cross servers leans in favor of my hypothesis. There may be a same server option if they add content along the lines of what is being discussed here.


The only reason is because SE released it far too late in 1.0's life that the majority of people actually playing couldn't really utilize the dungeon for what it's worth. My brother and his gf joined at the time of it's opening and got to use it and the first thing they said?

"This feels like FFXI in a good way, going to a dungeon to level and fight some NMs while finding chests..**** it's almost like a FF game."

Then when they hit end-game, they were bored to tears and wondered why all dungeons weren't like Shposhae, especially since 9.9/10 you get really nothing out of chests not to mention the boss itself unless you sped run it.



I agree. Level sync for content will help greatly.

I always wanted to run this dungeon, and toto-rak, at the designed level for them. The problem is, no one has a job these levels, or they want to run through at max level for the fastest run possible. I didn't find that fun, as I wanted to experience it as it was designed.
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#69 Dec 28 2012 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm still critical of Yoshi and crew using the Alpha to show off segments like this, especially with the combat system still in the rough. Hard to really display party content with only 3 playable classes.

All and all, the dungeons feel like the standard, which isn't bad given this is Final Fantasy. And yes, this one does feel like a FF dungeon, from what I've seen.

The more detailed and in depth the dungeons, instanced or otherwise, the better, IMO. There likely will be open world dungeons on top of instanced ones so I've no worries there. However, part of me is really glad that we're done with Alpha Videos. Let's hope that they make a better showing with the Beta (though the players likely will do that for them, provided the NDA is lifted.)
#70 Dec 28 2012 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Gelthidor wrote:
Hopefully we get more end game dungeons then throughout the months after launch. I'm not expecting Rift update speeds, but one after a couple of months isn't too much to ask I think, unless they only plan on adding more dungeons through expansions


They're going generic MMORPG, so expect dungeons in every update that aren't actually dungeons but just leveling spots and devoid of storyline.
#71 Dec 28 2012 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Theonehio wrote:
Gelthidor wrote:
Hopefully we get more end game dungeons then throughout the months after launch. I'm not expecting Rift update speeds, but one after a couple of months isn't too much to ask I think, unless they only plan on adding more dungeons through expansions


They're going generic MMORPG, so expect dungeons in every update that aren't actually dungeons but just leveling spots and devoid of storyline.


Fine with me, while I do like getting some lore, the main attraction of MMOs, for me at least, is dungeon delving with friends :P
#72 Dec 28 2012 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
Gelthidor wrote:
Hopefully we get more end game dungeons then throughout the months after launch. I'm not expecting Rift update speeds, but one after a couple of months isn't too much to ask I think, unless they only plan on adding more dungeons through expansions


They're going generic MMORPG, so expect dungeons in every update that aren't actually dungeons but just leveling spots and devoid of storyline.


I don't think this is a fair assessment at all. If it's one thing SE does well, it's storyline.
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#73 Dec 28 2012 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
It's a game. Players are SUPPOSED to be able to achieve their goals, because that's a big part of what makes it fun.


We have to be careful here. By making a game with such a design philosophy we tend to get "everyone's a winner!" mode stuffed with brain-dead easy content. As long as all goals are supposed to be achieved by all players, there's never going to be any higher achievement than going through the motions like everyone else.
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#74 Dec 28 2012 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Gelthidor wrote:
Hopefully we get more end game dungeons then throughout the months after launch. I'm not expecting Rift update speeds, but one after a couple of months isn't too much to ask I think, unless they only plan on adding more dungeons through expansions


They're going generic MMORPG, so expect dungeons in every update that aren't actually dungeons but just leveling spots and devoid of storyline.


I don't think this is a fair assessment at all. If it's one thing SE does well, it's storyline.


Yeah, so hopefully they do put a storyline into it. I mean, Trion manages it, I'm sure that SE will at least try >.>
#75 Dec 28 2012 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
It's a game. Players are SUPPOSED to be able to achieve their goals, because that's a big part of what makes it fun.


We have to be careful here. By making a game with such a design philosophy we tend to get "everyone's a winner!" mode stuffed with brain-dead easy content. As long as all goals are supposed to be achieved by all players, there's never going to be any higher achievement than going through the motions like everyone else.


I don't think we need to be that careful. There's a not very subtle difference between, "You can achieve everything with ease," and, "You can achieve anything if you practice at it." Game designers are supposed to challenge players to achieve their goals, so that when they finally achieve it, they experience the double-barrel reward of a sense of accomplishment and an in-game prize. That's where the powerful feel-good response comes from. They're not supposed to intentionally create boring obstructions to those goals. You want players to, again, -be able to- achieve their goals, rather than feel like it's just not worth it because they'd have to go through too much crap.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#76 Dec 28 2012 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
It's a game. Players are SUPPOSED to be able to achieve their goals, because that's a big part of what makes it fun.


We have to be careful here. By making a game with such a design philosophy we tend to get "everyone's a winner!" mode stuffed with brain-dead easy content. As long as all goals are supposed to be achieved by all players, there's never going to be any higher achievement than going through the motions like everyone else.



Opposite is also true, content can become dead and worthless if the difficulty ratio is so high that only a third of your players have completed the content by the end of year four of that content being out, which would be the case for Chains of Promithia before the last overhaul that removed level caps for most content. There needs to be a balance that is struck between. In my opinion, storyline content, however is non-negotiable. Fights can be challenging without being discouragingly hard, and as far as as storyline goes that needs to be the case every time.

For those that completed the Seventh Umbral Era storyline, the To Kill a Raven and United We Stand are excellent examples of fights done right on all fronts.
#77 Dec 28 2012 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
It's a game. Players are SUPPOSED to be able to achieve their goals, because that's a big part of what makes it fun.


We have to be careful here. By making a game with such a design philosophy we tend to get "everyone's a winner!" mode stuffed with brain-dead easy content. As long as all goals are supposed to be achieved by all players, there's never going to be any higher achievement than going through the motions like everyone else.


To a point I agree with this. A game with no challenge is not fun. But I also agree that all goals should be achievable after a certain amount of time.

What I am thinking about specifically is random loot drops. The system that I prefer is:

1.) You have a small chanch to get a drop on your first win.
2.) Subsequent wins increase your drop chanch.

The alternative, which I think is equally successful, is to provide tokens or chits to all party members for each win, which can be traded for the item directly after you accrue enough. This system does not prevent the item from also dropping directly from the NM, chest, etc.

All MMO veterans have their story about the time that they spent weeks, months or even longer, solely searching for a single item. With a purely random drop system, they may never get it. There is no reward for skill, no reward for perserverance, no reward for leadership or patience. No reward for spending countless hours helping friends, or having good friends willing to spend hours helping you.

The decision to even begin playing a game that we know includes randoms drops is basically accepting the possiblity of eternal defeat.

Because of those stories of continual faliure and endless frustration, I agree completely that goals should eventually be achievable to some degree of certainty. I want to know for sure that if I keep trying, improve my skills, make friends and pool resources, success is eventually garuanteed.
#78 Dec 28 2012 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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What I am thinking about specifically is random loot drops. The system that I prefer is:

1.) You have a small chanch to get a drop on your first win.
2.) Subsequent wins increase your drop chanch.

The alternative, which I think is equally successful, is to provide tokens or chits to all party members for each win, which can be traded for the item directly after you accrue enough. This system does not prevent the item from also dropping directly from the NM, chest, etc.


The technical problem with token systems is that they ruin a lot of the anticipation and surprise that causes games to be fun. When you can see the incremental progress, you're much less likely to feel frustrated, but psychologically, you're less prone to feel good about earning the reward. It's nearly the difference between winning the lottery and getting a paycheck at work. I like a system where it's random, but you have increased returns as you complete the task. However, I really don't think it's entirely necessary to have complicated mechanics for loot drops. If you just keep the drop rates at approximately 30% and don't rely on extremely bottlenecked content, most players will have acceptable odds of getting the item without excessive repetitions.

Personally I think a system where encounters have multiple difficulty levels and your odds are increased accordingly is ideal. Ideally you don't want players to get the drop on their first try, but you want to maintain a realistic possibility that it will happen.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#79 Dec 28 2012 at 3:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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If I want to "kill Kirin extreme" or "get Kirin's magic sword" it doesn't matter what I have to do to get them. I still WANT those things. Goals are not something you set so much as embodiments of desire. You might as well ask people to stop liking pizza and ice cream.


Totally random thought, but this is totally true. One of the things that FFXI really did right (probably unintentionally) was to really make people take pride in their primary jobs in the game... I think because grinding a job to 75 took so long in the game's early days, and getting good gear for jobs was extremely time intensive, too. For a semi-hardcore player like I once was, I only really had time to focus on really tricking out one job (red mage, FTW). Anyway, players like me became known for playing as certain jobs. It really became part of our online identities.

So every time SE put a new rdm item in the game, I took notice. I have barely played since Abyssea, and it drives me nuts that I still don't have my Abyssea rdm set... and even though I hear rdm is pretty useless in FFXI right now, that set is still the ONLY set of Abyssea gear that I honestly care about, because rdm is MY job.

I did Dynamis over and over and over and over again, planning two days/week around linkshell dynamis runs, just to maintain my "lead" for the Duelist's Chapeau (that ls broke as soon as the d-bag leader got his chapeau, but, luckily, I got it much sooner with the next ls I joined... love you, TeamSuicide!).

Anyway, in FFXIV, I hope SE puts as much focus on job storylines/quests/gear as they are on the flashy battle motions that so many people were clamoring for during 1.0.
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#80 Dec 28 2012 at 4:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yup, there's nothing more satisfying than getting that piece of equipment you want, or finally downing that boss mob after so many tries, or even maxing out your character. That's what makes me love MMORPGs so much, since while I do get that feeling with my console games...it's small compared to the feeling of weeks/months of farming/grinding/etc
#81 Dec 28 2012 at 5:45 PM Rating: Good
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[quote]love you, TeamSuicide


Were you on Lakshmi?
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#82 Dec 28 2012 at 8:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Were you on Lakshmi?


I am currently on Lakshmi, but I'm a Garuda-born.
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#83 Dec 28 2012 at 9:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
I do think there's a bit too much particle effect happening too early. It leaves little room for visual growth.


Ah, the WoW paradox. How does one constantly make more desirable shoulderpads with each ensuing update? At first it makes some sense: spikes to bigger spikes to glowing spikes; everyone's happy; but after a while it's not so easy. Eventually you get some too-daring ideas that throw the whole thing out of measure. You get giant, floating, lava-spewing flaming skulls that progress into statues weeping tears above fiery basins while shooting lasers from their eyes. I'm saying that the whole affair begins to get ridiculous. There's no reference point anymore. I'm desensitized (and not just because the effects blinded me). No: certainly, a modest progression, like what others are saying, is best -- both in armour and animations.
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#84 Dec 28 2012 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ah, the WoW paradox. How does one constantly make more desirable shoulderpads with each ensuing update?


The sad thing is, so many people were clamoring for all these things a year or two ago! Read the posts from naysayers back then, and the complaints were, "All the armor looks samey and boring," and "the battle animations aren't exciting enough!"

Well, it looks like SE is fixing the boring nature of battle animations, and people are concerned about too much flash and sizzle. I'm not trying to criticize, and I understand that things could be toned down a little... but a lot of people cried very loudly about these things, and SE responded with proportionate results. It really must be frustrating to be a major game developer nowadays!

Personally, I don't mind if the battle animations are more flashy or less flashy. I just want a fun game with an epic storyline and the infrastructure to have meaningful goals that require cooperation. That's pretty much been the essence of Final Fantasy since Day 1.
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#85 Dec 28 2012 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I admit that the "Dragoon" armor does kinda look very flashy, almost on the level of what most games save for expansions, but I actually kinda like that...the armor we've seen so far looks pretty nice, even the leather, which is odd
#86 Dec 28 2012 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
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Eh, I don't think a happy medium is such a hard thing to strike. If those were the effects at max level, it might be slightly over the top, but not a big deal. But certainly they left very little room for upward momentum. Hopefully that's just an example of them showing us what they think we want to see... the average player who looks at the trailer probably isn't going to give it so much thought as "too much for level 20." They'll just see the flash and hopefully be pleased.

KaneKitty wrote:
Llester wrote:
I do think there's a bit too much particle effect happening too early. It leaves little room for visual growth.


Ah, the WoW paradox. How does one constantly make more desirable shoulderpads with each ensuing update? At first it makes some sense: spikes to bigger spikes to glowing spikes; everyone's happy; but after a while it's not so easy. Eventually you get some too-daring ideas that throw the whole thing out of measure. You get giant, floating, lava-spewing flaming skulls that progress into statues weeping tears above fiery basins while shooting lasers from their eyes. I'm saying that the whole affair begins to get ridiculous. There's no reference point anymore. I'm desensitized (and not just because the effects blinded me). No: certainly, a modest progression, like what others are saying, is best -- both in armour and animations.


It's a shame I can only rate this up once.
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#87 Dec 28 2012 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Guess we'll see how it goes in the coming months. And during the first expansion, if they plan on doing those, and if they want extra box income, chances are, they will.
#88 Dec 29 2012 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
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Gelthidor wrote:
Guess we'll see how it goes in the coming months. And during the first expansion, if they plan on doing those, and if they want extra box income, chances are, they will.


Yoshi has mentioned that they plan on doing this as long as the game goes well. They will update the game with major patches like they did in 1.0 for at least the first year and then release the first expansion. The first expansion is when we can expect new areas to be available along with ishgard.
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#89 Dec 29 2012 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
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swisa wrote:
Gelthidor wrote:
Guess we'll see how it goes in the coming months. And during the first expansion, if they plan on doing those, and if they want extra box income, chances are, they will.


Yoshi has mentioned that they plan on doing this as long as the game goes well. They will update the game with major patches like they did in 1.0 for at least the first year and then release the first expansion. The first expansion is when we can expect new areas to be available along with ishgard.


Seems like a good plan really. Planning an expansion when your first release didn't go that well would have been a bad idea haha. Hopefully, with the changes, and the console crowd coming in, they succeed, because while I haven't been liking SE games lately, rarely do I wish for a company to fail.

Plus, I'm actually interested in it :P
#90 Dec 29 2012 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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swisa wrote:
Gelthidor wrote:
Guess we'll see how it goes in the coming months. And during the first expansion, if they plan on doing those, and if they want extra box income, chances are, they will.


Yoshi has mentioned that they plan on doing this as long as the game goes well. They will update the game with major patches like they did in 1.0 for at least the first year and then release the first expansion. The first expansion is when we can expect new areas to be available along with ishgard.



There's something that just rubs me the wrong way about Ishgard being inaccessible as long as FFXIV has existed, and continuing to be inaccessible until as far out as 2014. Maybe it's because the city has always been sitting there, its giant gates on lock down, NPCs turning you away, taunting players from the start of 1.0, which was back in 2010. There's a point where it just comes off as, well, ridiculous that there's been no way to implement Ishgard and will continue to be that way for up to four whole years.
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#91 Dec 29 2012 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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XI has places that have been like that forever. There are boat docks in Lower Jeuno in the Tenshodo, in Kazham, and in Norg, where SE clearly left an ambiguous place for future expansions. "No no, can't let you in here," says the NPC in Kazham. It's pretty clear the cave leads to a second boat dock besides the airship one. San d'Oria has three inaccessible docks.

In order words, this is pretty par for the course for SE.
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#92 Dec 29 2012 at 10:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Rift, EQ2, and I think EQ1 also had/have areas that are visible, but unable to be entered, or even gotten to...it's something quite a few MMOs have done.
#93 Dec 29 2012 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Were you on Lakshmi?


I am currently on Lakshmi, but I'm a Garuda-born.


That's where I was. I was in Divirtr up until I quit ^^ Usually on Rafoot
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#94 Dec 29 2012 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
XI has places that have been like that forever. There are boat docks in Lower Jeuno in the Tenshodo, in Kazham, and in Norg, where SE clearly left an ambiguous place for future expansions. "No no, can't let you in here," says the NPC in Kazham. It's pretty clear the cave leads to a second boat dock besides the airship one. San d'Oria has three inaccessible docks.

In order words, this is pretty par for the course for SE.


I know. I've seen all those spots, as well as other ones all over Vana'diel. Gates, wooden barriers, NPCs, what have you. Even Tavnazia itself could be considered a "Will they?/Won't they?" deal with the way you could visibly spot it at Blueblade Fell, even if most people knew or assumed it would be at most some sort of high-level dungeon activity due to the Beastmen controlling it.

Still, Ishgard feels different to me. I remember prior to the massive change in direction in XIV they were basically assuring players that Ishgard would be opened in the near future. But once 1.0 went off the rails and 2.0 became a thing that was being planned on and worked on, that was thrown right out the window. Suddenly finding a way to open the proverbial Jeuno of XIV (in relation to becoming a hub city that no one started in, unlike Ul'dah) was off the table.

It was always that you could see it, though, right there in plain view. Right across the bridge. Boat docks, blocked off caverns, those are one thing. Like you said, they were left ambiguous in case S-E decided to go one way or another in direction. But Ishgard was and is a definitive thing. Has been since the beginning. I think it's understandable to be frustrated in regards to Ishgard's status, especially if it does turn out to be true that it'll take around four years to finally let people go there. But that's just me.

Edited, Dec 29th 2012 12:05pm by Satisiun
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#95 Dec 29 2012 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, sadly, that's what happens when a game has to be redone, all their old plans get thrown on the back burner, so that they can fix the game...so I think they did the right thing by focusing on 2.0 to get it out quicker, and to get more people into the game
#96 Dec 30 2012 at 1:15 AM Rating: Decent
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common guys lets not forget the kind of content they added in 1.0. there was a good portion of easy/medium/hard fights to do and i don't think they will stop adding that stuff in. take a look at van darnus hard. im sure they will implement stuff as hard as this to keep the hardcore people happy. **** even garuda was a pain in the *** sometimes. then there was ifrit extreme (but not many people got to do this i know).

there will be plenty of content for all with all the challenges that we have come to know. we have seen what they can do with our battle system to make it interesting and challenging. darnus hard is the bext example of this because everyone had to know what they were doing and what they were responsable for and it wasn't easy. it was common to see a pile of dead bodies by the start NPC all weekend.

and don't worry there will be the easier stuff like darkhold and other BCNM style fights. everyone really has to wait and see before they start to pick apart something that isn't there yet. from what we have seen the game looks like it's miles ahead of 1.0, and that's a good thing. obviously they won't show us everything because ti'm willing to bet they want us to be surprised when we log in for the first time. and im not just saying this to be optimistic, from what i have seen the game looks like it's shaping up nicely, and i can't wait for the re-launch.
#97 Dec 30 2012 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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I am torn when it comes to difficulty because when it comes to storyline I really want to be able to experience it all while at the same time I want it to be very challenging so that I feel like I accomplished something when I win a certain battle.

For me CoP was the best expansion in XI, it was by far the most fun I had even though it could be tough as **** sometimes, but I think that is part of why I actually think it was so fun too.

In 1.0 the storyline was once again the most fun, like Hyrist mentioned To Kill a Raven and United We Stand are great examples of fun fights, but to be honest the excitement I felt was nothing compared to when I finished a CoP mission. The fights were still a bit too easy in my opinion, but at the same time I was happy they were since there was a timelimit before I could never experience it.

Also the fact that in XI doing missions usually meant gathering together six people whereas XIV meant eight people made it more frustrating sometimes so in that sense too it was nice that it was a little easier.

Having HM fights is a decent idea, but to me progressing through missions is different going back and fighting a mob in HM. Maybe they could give storyline missions different level of difficulty too so that your group can decide what they want to do?

I don't know, but what I do know is I want the cake and eat it too! >.<

Edited, Dec 30th 2012 8:31am by Belcrono
#98 Dec 30 2012 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
Belcrono wrote:
I don't know, but what I do know is I want the cake and eat it too! >.<


I understand how you feel Smiley: bah Unfortunately, it seems that if someone lets you have your cake and eat it too, it comes from Walmart... Whereas the good stuff is a 6-tier chocolate-strawberry cake with buttercream frosting that you can only look at.
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#99 Dec 30 2012 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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*laugh* Don't make me hungry. I'm resisting running out for groceries in the horrible weather we've got right now.

Anyways, I think if Yoshi can replicated what he did in FFXIV 1.2x we're good as far as a storyline that is accessible, but provides a good challenge for you as well.

A lot of the fights in the old version had some different ways you could pull them off. For example, you could chose to kite or destory the Magitek Vanguard that was protecting the target.

There were variable party compositions that could beat the final fight as well, though some usually liked defaulting with 3 black mages for the final segment of the fight.

No matter what, the fights were never quite as simple as just a tank and spank.
#100 Dec 30 2012 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
Well let's hope the fights can stay that way throughout most of the game's life. If everything becomes tank n' spank, then everything just becomes a gear check, which I despise.
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Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#101 Dec 30 2012 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Hey guys, my first mmorpg was ffxi and I fell in love. I can still remember when I got my earthen body abjuration from Nidhogg for my dark knight. It felt really good when I got to un-cursed that hauberk.

Reminiscing aside, I’ve been following FFXIV on the sidelines and would hope to join you guys when the ps3 version comes out. I’m writing this post with regards to how I think they should implement the Whole HNM thing because I felt the HNMs in ffxi was great, but that doesn’t mean they don’t change anything about it.

This is just my opinion, I think if they implement the world HNMs, they should make everyone in the zone be able to fight it, maybe kind of like besiege. People can just start wailing on it and if as a community you choose to do that, SE should make the fight longer by maybe making the HNM perform moves that can one-shot players or have individual attacks cause less damage. The other choice would be that the community could work together as a group and perform those limit breaks SE will be implementing, which can kill the HNM faster.

By now you might be wondering how the drops are going to be distributed. I think that these world HNMs would reward items like beastmen seals or kindred seals and base it on player’s performance on taking down the HNM. Those seals can then be used to fight the HNM with your desired party where the priced items can drop and the drop rate can be increase if you turn in more seals before the fight. This gives everyone in the community a chance to work for the price item. Also when you think about it, the world HNM can be use for practice for your real HNM fight with your party. This allows for collaboration and interaction within the community, which I think a lot of players would want.

I know there’s going to be those people that would want to ruin it for everyone. That’s why the seals will be based on the player’s performance. If he decide to just do his own thing then he can just get the bare minimum of the seals one can get and plus it would be hard for him to get a group for the HNM that drops the item since people know how he/she is.

Well that’s it for me. I just wanted to share my opinion on the whole HNM thing. There’s probably some flaws in this system so feel free to try and mend it.

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