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#52 Feb 13 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I always hated it when games give crap armor as loot you have to then unload. Torchlight in particular drove me crazy with all the junk you accumulate.
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#53 Feb 13 2013 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I always hated it when games give crap armor as loot you have to then unload. Torchlight in particular drove me crazy with all the junk you accumulate.
Absolutely. Perhaps if they significantly lowered drop rates in these games and stopped using so many "tiers" of gear it wouldn't be so bad for me because it would still feel somewhat exciting when you found an upgrade. All I know is I was much more excited when I finally made my first Bronze Haubergeon in 1.0 (which was only like a level 12 piece of gear) than I am now looting even the best of gear in Tera/Swtor. :/
#54 Feb 13 2013 at 12:07 PM Rating: Good
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That was one of the things that XI did very well, too. Rewards that aren't meaningful aren't rewards, and it does a lot for engagement to have players set goals for their rewards that they can accomplish. When you just hand it out like Halloween candy, it's forgotten just as fast.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#55 Feb 13 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
That was one of the things that XI did very well, too. Rewards that aren't meaningful aren't rewards, and it does a lot for engagement to have players set goals for their rewards that they can accomplish. When you just hand it out like Halloween candy, it's forgotten just as fast.


600g for 3 silk thread? Smiley: dubious
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#56 Feb 13 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
That was one of the things that XI did very well, too. Rewards that aren't meaningful aren't rewards, and it does a lot for engagement to have players set goals for their rewards that they can accomplish. When you just hand it out like Halloween candy, it's forgotten just as fast.


600g for 3 silk thread? Smiley: dubious


No no no you traded in the crawler calculus for the gil. (And the NPC gave you cash for them because the crawlers were eating all the dhalmel chow.)

You saved silk threads til you had a stack, which then sold for 5000-10000 gil on the AH to desperate cloth crafters.
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#57 Feb 13 2013 at 2:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
That was one of the things that XI did very well, too. Rewards that aren't meaningful aren't rewards, and it does a lot for engagement to have players set goals for their rewards that they can accomplish. When you just hand it out like Halloween candy, it's forgotten just as fast.


600g for 3 silk thread? Smiley: dubious


No no no you traded in the crawler calculus for the gil. (And the NPC gave you cash for them because the crawlers were eating all the dhalmel chow.)

You saved silk threads til you had a stack, which then sold for 5000-10000 gil on the AH to desperate cloth crafters.


Yeah I figured that out after I'd traded a few stacks to the NPC Smiley: bah
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Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#58 Feb 13 2013 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I have to say, I usually savvy myself as pretty perceptive, but I'm really not sure what point you were trying to make about quest rewards there.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#59 Feb 13 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Honestly the biggest problem I had with gear in XIV was that it wasn't needed until you got to 50 more or less. I don't know how often I saw people exp in gear that was not good to begin with and that they outleveled 30min into the party. In the end though it didn't matter because people just dinged too fast to expect anyone to buy new gear for every level (Especially in PL parties, but this applied to normal parties as well imo). If you dinged and the party ended sure you might get a new weapon before the next party, but generally I had maybe two gear setups and maybe three weapons per 1-50? Granted I was mostly mage/support so it didn't matter as much for me, but I saw the same thing on a lot of others too.

I agree that it isn't fun always getting new gear from loot all the time, but with quest based leveling it will probably be like it is in most mmos nowadays. I doubt crafting will matter much until lategame, especially with the system where gear that is spiritbonded = bound to your character. Combined with a probable high speed to cap I sure won't spend gil on gear I will just have to NPC as soon as I ding 50 if I get gear for free via quests.

Personally I'd like a combination of systems where leveling isn't fast enough for gear to be obsolete in an hour, crafted gear has its place alongside quested gear (that then would have to be less frequent as a reward than in most mmos) and I think the only way to get something like that is if you make a game where endgame is only a part of the game and not the only thing anyone cares about.

We will just have to wait and see how it turns out I guess, most answers will come with beta I think.
#60 Feb 13 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
I have to say, I usually savvy myself as pretty perceptive, but I'm really not sure what point you were trying to make about quest rewards there.


So you don't see how 600g isn't a meaningful reward?
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#61 Feb 13 2013 at 2:58 PM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:

Personally I'd like a combination of systems where leveling isn't fast enough for gear to be obsolete in an hour, crafted gear has its place alongside quested gear (that then would have to be less frequent as a reward than in most mmos) and I think the only way to get something like that is if you make a game where endgame is only a part of the game and not the only thing anyone cares about.

We will just have to wait and see how it turns out I guess, most answers will come with beta I think.
I couldn't agree more.... your post sums up exactly how I feel. Early XIV wasn't anything like it was at the end - before you could PL and they increased EXP gains on everything, all the low level gear was viable and very much worth obtaining. Unfortunately you're probably right, we'll never see that slow paced leveling again in XIV (and possibly never again in any MMO ; ; ).
#62 Feb 13 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I have to say, I usually savvy myself as pretty perceptive, but I'm really not sure what point you were trying to make about quest rewards there.


So you don't see how 600g isn't a meaningful reward?


Ah, I see. No, I meant that the presence of meaningful rewards was something that FFXI did well. I've been very vocal in my criticism that they did a very POOR job of making quest rewards consistently meaningful. I don't necessarily have a problem with the repeatable turn-in quests, as boring as they generally are. They actually had quests that would take many, many hours to complete, and reward you with 1000 gil, and nothing more.

But to go to my go-to example lately, look at GW2. None of the equipment in that game had any real value or meaningfulness to it, and the way it was distributed was as lazy and thoughtless as possible. I understand they actually updated this, but from what I read of it, they didn't exactly do a great job of that, either.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#63 Feb 13 2013 at 3:37 PM Rating: Good
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Well to be fair... in GW2 at launch, character progression of any kind had very little real value or meaning.
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#64 Feb 13 2013 at 5:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I have to say, I usually savvy myself as pretty perceptive, but I'm really not sure what point you were trying to make about quest rewards there.


So you don't see how 600g isn't a meaningful reward?


Ah, I see. No, I meant that the presence of meaningful rewards was something that FFXI did well. I've been very vocal in my criticism that they did a very POOR job of making quest rewards consistently meaningful. I don't necessarily have a problem with the repeatable turn-in quests, as boring as they generally are. They actually had quests that would take many, many hours to complete, and reward you with 1000 gil, and nothing more.

But to go to my go-to example lately, look at GW2. None of the equipment in that game had any real value or meaningfulness to it, and the way it was distributed was as lazy and thoughtless as possible. I understand they actually updated this, but from what I read of it, they didn't exactly do a great job of that, either.


I was teasing really, I know what you mean Smiley: smile
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Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#65 Feb 13 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Gah, you. Smiley: bah
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#66 Feb 13 2013 at 8:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Gah, you. Smiley: bah


Here's a few rate ups for your trouble Smiley: tongue
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"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#67 Feb 13 2013 at 9:02 PM Rating: Good
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Your money's no good here! Smiley: grin
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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