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#52 Feb 07 2013 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:

Because she/he (although I'm pretty confident it's the latter - I must be a mentalist) is using a partial similarity as an
argument in a discussion that is not about the general appropriateness of female, animal, or midget characters.
One rate up for "nice try" is acceptable, but more would mean you actually fell for the sophism.


Edited, Feb 7th 2013 5:27pm by Rinsui

My point is, its ridiculous (and immature) to associate anything sexual in nature with video game avatars no matter what game or what race you're talking about (human, lala, elin, popori...Galka....it doesn't matter.). I wasn't coming at this from the Elin perspective - I'm "guy who likes to make female characters" as well as "guy who plans to make a lalafell (not that it should matter, but male)' in ARR.

I'll use Elins as the example I guess because they are notoriously the most controversial. Though once again, my point is about ALL avatars in ANY game.

The majority of people fall under 2 categories in these discussions...

a) The person sees a game avatar that is half animal, half human, wears dresses on some classes and makes annoying noises. Most of this group is also completely annoyed by anyone who is ignorant enough to even bring sexuality into the conversation.

b) The person sees a figure that automatically sparks impure thoughts and makes them feel uncomfortable. On top of all that, it even makes noises that resemble "moans". Seriously? You think those are moans??? Sorry, you failed that Ink Blot Test.

The same can be said for the old "you made the female human because you wanted to stare at her all day".

a) Some of us just see a female wielding a sword who might remind us of other great female characters from past games, movies, ect.

b) Others see the female and only think of sexually related motives for a male creating them.

You see the pattern here. The problem lies with the people who's mind only lets them interpret these things in a sexual way. Which is why I used the 3 examples, the last of which being the one that should have shown you just how ridiculous it is interpret avatars in such a way. Maybe I'm alone on this and maybe that makes me the strange one, but I have never in my life looked at anything in a video game and had it provoke RL sexual thoughts.

In my mind the problem is with the people who have the problem. The rest of us don't understand where/why some people always have to think of these things with such an dirty perspective.
#53 Feb 07 2013 at 7:08 PM Rating: Decent
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No, I'm also not one to look at fictional characters sexually. The problem is you're assuming everyone else is like you.

In the case of Elin it's rather extreme, they were wearing so little clothing over their childlike bodies that the game had to be censored during localization, and even now most armor is very revealing.

For me, it's not in my mind... I don't see Elin characters and immediately jump to P3DOPHILE!

I listen to the community, I heard what the Elin players are saying. very disturbing things. I see (on other boards) people hyping TERA because you can play as a **** kid with no clothes.

so my opinion of Elin players comes from what they say/do, not me

Edited, Feb 7th 2013 8:09pm by Poubelle

Edited, Feb 7th 2013 8:10pm by Poubelle
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#54 Feb 07 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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Poubelle wrote:

I listen to the community, I heard what the Elin players are saying. very disturbing things. I see (on other boards) people hyping TERA because you can play as a **** kid with no clothes.
Edited, Feb 7th 2013 8:09pm by Poubelle

Edited, Feb 7th 2013 8:10pm by Poubelle
These people are a part of the problem and fall under that same category of "twisted thinking" I was trying to point out.

I'm not trying to get into a huge thing here. I just wanted to voice my opinion on the greater issue of "MMO prejudices" towards the avatars players make - Elins are just the latest punching bags, imo. My 2nd post was to try and back up the reasoning to my OP since you somewhat challenged it. I stand by the logic to my post, but I also respect your opinion on the matter!

peace,

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#55 Feb 07 2013 at 9:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Poubelle wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm surprised to find people so sensitive about it. If you find Elin too ****, it's probably a signal that there may be something wrong and you should seek counseling.

As for the global chat, well... it gets the same treatment that it did in FFXI, WoW and any other MMO. Attaching a label on the entire community for the actions of a few bad apples is just as fair in TERA as it is in any game; XI and XIV are no different in this respect.

I'd be inclined to agree that TERA is bland outside of combat, but combat is the focus of the game. That's like saying that an amusement park is pretty bland outside of the roller coasters. Ya think? Smiley: rolleyes


I don't find them **** personally, what bothers me is being surrounded by a community who does.


Ever consider they might be trolling the oversensitive and not truly attracted to their avatar?

My whole point here is that being attracted to pixels is ******* nutter and anyone who is really trying to date their or anyone else avatar needs therapy. I am not saying that no one has this issue of genuine attraction to pixels, but they're the minority and a simple right click and checking the corresponding box saves you from ever having to interact with them or people trolling on their behalf.

Most people who play races in MMOs pick them for racial abilities or advantages they have over other races. It's no different in TERA. I do play the game and I don't play Elin, but if I were truly serious about PvP in TERA then I'd probably roll an Elin despite not really caring for their aesthetic. They have smaller hit boxes than other races and it gives them a slight advantage. Much the same way that a player in XI would get a slight advantage to AGI as a mithra or INT and MP as a tarutaru.

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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#56 Feb 07 2013 at 11:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eh, the reason I found the Elin so disturbing wasn't just the skimpy wardrobes and the pedophiles in the chat channels. It's the general design. The art direction is bad. They've always got one hip stuck out, they have thunder thighs that are otherwise disproportionate to their bodies, and they don't really appear to have any thought put into them beyond "cute bunny girls." It reminds me too much of Toddlers and Tiaras, or those documentaries about the Traveling Irish that always have the ten year olds dressed up like twenty year olds.

I'm sure they have a deep and lengthy racial lore I'd be interested in learning about, but all I can think about when I see them is how wrong and creepy they feel.

And I play a Tarutaru and a Lalafelle...
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#57 Feb 08 2013 at 12:14 AM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
I'm sure [Elin] have a deep and lengthy racial lore....


The only lore written under legal advisement!
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#58 Feb 08 2013 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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My whole point here is that being attracted to pixels is @#%^ing nutter and anyone who is really trying to date their or anyone else avatar needs therapy.


Does fapping count?
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#59 Feb 08 2013 at 1:34 AM Rating: Default
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catwho wrote:
I'm sure they have a deep and lengthy racial lore I'd be interested in learning about, but all I can think about when I see them is how wrong and creepy they feel.

And I play a Tarutaru and a Lalafelle...

This is what boggles me. You have a problem with proportion, yet you play taru and lala...

Kachi wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
My whole point here is that being attracted to pixels is @#%^ing nutter and anyone who is really trying to date their or anyone else avatar needs therapy.
Does fapping count?


Fap to pixels? What would you think?

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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#60 Feb 08 2013 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
DevilFruit wrote:
To me, it made both genders feel much more androgynous than I would have liked. I'm glad the female Lalafell are getting some female curves to actually promote their gender.


"Promote their gender?" For god's sake, we have every other race to do that (and certainly whatever future ones they add in, too)!

It always has to be some kind of low-cut top, waist-less armour, bikini bottom, or bare thigh leggings for the ladies (you know, because even though you need plate armour for the fight, any girl would rather expose some vital organs than risk being slightly less provocative in a life-or-death battle). It was nice to be rid of that sort of attitude, even in a small part, every now and again.

I thought Tarutaru/Lalafell androgyny was one of the few commendable aesthetic decisions the team had made, and to see them implementing this rather strange change leaves me just shaking my head at it all.


I think you may be reading too much into what I was saying. I don't think the FFXI/XIV female character models are over the top at all, nor is the clothing for that matter. As mentioned, just compare the aesthetics to TERA, the armor/clothing/animations/character models just drip "***". I just think its nice that the female Lalafell will actually look like a different gender, otherwise, what was the point of having a gender option at all? It's not like SE is afraid of making single-gender races. I mean, put a helm on a female Tarutaru, and you're lost amidst all the other Tarutaru, whether they be male or female.

I don't know, I don't feel like its a big deal either way. I'm just happy that they're doing it to actually make each gender stand out.
#61 Feb 08 2013 at 4:00 AM Rating: Good
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Fap to pixels? What would you think?


I was kidding, but considering that all **** is pixels, I would think that the answer falls along the vein of, "It's perfectly normal."
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#62 Feb 08 2013 at 5:20 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sorry, but a Lalafell with boob mechanics is a far cry from the infamous Elin design. I think we are talking apples and oranges here. I also think that if you are like me, avatar models take a back seat in game, since my focus is usually on the gameplay at hand.
With that said, i will probabaly play Miqo' Te again.
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#63 Feb 08 2013 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Btw, ashahi shimbun (the biggest Japanese newspaper) just reported the business success story
of a shop in Akihabara (a district in Tokyo) that sells "lying next to underage teenage girls in school
uniforms" for roughly 10 dollas per 10 seconds.
( http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0207/TKY201302070163.html?tr=pc )

Of course, to even suggest that this has any sort of sexual connotation just shows how depraved
I am, I guess. After all, there's no direct *** involved. Strange that the general public perception
seems to disagree, and very strange that up to now, 100% of the shop's customers are male.

So stop barfing out sh*t arguments about how moaning monsterhip pre-teen lolis in translucent
negligees have nothing to do with attracting Porno Pedro and Lecherous Luke as new customers.


...

Perhaps I'm overreacting. But I also want to make sure that the game a major, famous company in my
country designs doesn't further feed the stupid, stupid, idiotic stereotype that Japan = Tokyo = Akihabara
= Cheap Loli *** free for all. Call it an antiquated type of patriotism, call it an anachronism, call it whatever
you like. To me it looks like few foreigners understand how our system of "it's forbidden, maybe, maybe not"
really works. They pick out Akihabara and claim to understand "the Japanese way of thought" because, like,
they've been to Roppongi, or, even worse, to a brothel in Bangkok.

One of my fears is that something like Elin in a SE game would further this impression. And attract a sort of
players to *my* game I would rather see interested in something else. Besides, their sounds are annoying.

So. Enough bow-wow for today!

Edited, Feb 8th 2013 7:33am by Rinsui
#64 Feb 08 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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We have no idea what bust sizes will be available even. I imagine even at max settings, there will be simply enough change to distinguish a male from a female. I expect once beta starts someone will leak a video or something of this very feature and everyone can rehash this again then.
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#65 Feb 08 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Btw, ashahi shimbun (the biggest Japanese newspaper) just reported the business success story
of a shop in Akihabara (a district in Tokyo) that sells "lying next to underage teenage girls in school
uniforms" for roughly 10 dollas per 10 seconds.
( http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0207/TKY201302070163.html?tr=pc )


LOL yeah I can imagine that in Akihabara. (Actually, I was kind of disappointed when I went there. I think my expectations were built up too high.)

Edited, Feb 8th 2013 10:12am by catwho
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#66 Feb 08 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Default
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This change does not bother me as it is aesthetic change only. This does not affect game play.
#67 Feb 08 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
So stop barfing out sh*t arguments about how moaning monsterhip pre-teen lolis in translucent
negligees have nothing to do with attracting Porno Pedro and Lecherous Luke as new customers.


This made me change my mind. I apologize for trying to support the argument I was making. I realize now that the majority of gamers are ***-starved pedophiles and that EME was just trying to capitalize on that fact. Those who wouldn't line up to lay next to uniformed underage girls are lining up their ammunition to kill them. It all makes complete sense now.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#68 Feb 09 2013 at 12:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Men are paying to sleep next to teenage girls in Tokyo, men are stoning girls to death in Pakistan, men are treating girls like crap in America ...

These are real life issues that need to be addressed for sure, but a video game is probably the wrong place. A video game forum is certainly not the place to handle it.
Why do people keep mixing fantasy with real life? I played Tera for a bit. I tried Elin. I didn't become a pedo ...I'm sure that a Lalafell with boob mechanics isn't gonna make me want to sleep with children.
People that will do that, DON"T need mmo's, or magazines, or tv shows to coax them into doing it. They are sick, and need help (Read: Should be shot imo).
Maybe, some people are more sensitive to this than others. I apologize to them for my views, but this is getting a little out of hand. There is nothing more serious than an adult taking advantage of a child...... But if you think that those people come running to video games to get their fix, i'd have to disagree. If "Pixels" were enough to satisfy this problem, then this problem would have been solved long ago.
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#69 Feb 09 2013 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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If "Pixels" were enough to satisfy this problem, then this problem would have been solved long ago.


Seems like a bit of a non sequitur considering that pixels haven't existed for very long, relatively speaking, and historically the solutions attempted for the problem have been "put them in jail" or "kill them."

But personally I find these discussions repugnant, tantamount to discussing the Holocaust. Is there some corollary here for Godwin's law? Because these discussions never go anywhere productive. And then invariably everyone must chime in on their enlightened view of pedophiles ("I think they're sick!" "Well I think they should be put to death!" "Guys, they should just go to jail. They'll get comeuppance way worse in there. Hurr hurr.") Great, nobody here is a fan of child molestation. Glad we have that out of the way.

Lalafells are getting tits. Tee hee and /gasp. Now can we talk about video games again?
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#70 Feb 18 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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SNOOKIE!
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#71 Feb 19 2013 at 5:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm late to the party, but oh well.

catwho wrote:
Eh, the reason I found the Elin so disturbing wasn't just the skimpy wardrobes and the @#%^philes in the chat channels. It's the general design. The art direction is bad. They've always got one hip stuck out, they have thunder thighs that are otherwise disproportionate to their bodies, and they don't really appear to have any thought put into them beyond "cute bunny girls." It reminds me too much of Toddlers and Tiaras, or those documentaries about the Traveling Irish that always have the ten year olds dressed up like twenty year olds.
We should remember that Tera was built on assets from what was going to be Lineage III. By my guess, Elim were probably modified models intended for female dwarves (who in Lineage are there for the lolicons).

The outrage was ridiculous when it first broke out and is still ridiculous now. Guys who are "into" Elim are no different than the lolicons the anime fandom has had in its fold since the days of the first magical girl shows, which is probably why I just let them be and move on with my life. My main criticism on their design is that they really should have foregone attempts at *** appeal or skimpyness and gone straight to just sugar overdose cute factor. Less "12-year-old epitome of womanhood" and more "chiyo-chan in the penguin suit" (you earn a cookie if you get both references).
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#72 Feb 19 2013 at 5:24 AM Rating: Decent
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#73 Feb 19 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Poubelle wrote:
don't like the idea of being able to make the lalafells "****"

I guess it's to attract those creepers who play Elins on TERA??

I prefer FFXI tarutaru where they clearly werent human. now they just look like little kids, and now theyll be sexualized little kids. wonderful.


Hey now, I played an Elin in Tera because she was the only thing that didn't have big, bouncy, physics defying boobs o.O (I swore those things moved of their own volition in Tera, always in flux and such)

What's creeping me out here is I've always seen taru and lalafel as child-like. I'm just hoping this boob-slider they implement scales to their size in an appropriate way so we don't have midgets that could be in a Dead or Alive game ._. bleh
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#74 Feb 19 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:

"Promote their gender?" For god's sake, we have every other race to do that (and certainly whatever future ones they add in, too)!

It always has to be some kind of low-cut top, waist-less armour, bikini bottom, or bare thigh leggings for the ladies (you know, because even though you need plate armour for the fight, any girl would rather expose some vital organs than risk being slightly less provocative in a life-or-death battle). It was nice to be rid of that sort of attitude, even in a small part, every now and again.

I thought Tarutaru/Lalafell androgyny was one of the few commendable aesthetic decisions the team had made, and to see them implementing this rather strange change leaves me just shaking my head at it all.


Yeah, as a woman I am a bit tired of all female chars being overly sexualized in games. It's getting always been ridiculous.

I don't have any real problem par se with female lalas getting the chest slider, but if that is the only customization they offer in terms of body type I'll be sorely disappointed. If that's the case then, once again, I'll be left thinking that SE only really cares about the preferences of their male customers and they don't care about making their game interesting to women at all.

I know not all women are bothered by it, but I also know I am not the only female who gets turned off by this sort of thing.

Edited, Feb 19th 2013 10:16am by Olorinus
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