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#27 Feb 04 2013 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
You realize Poubelle that modern TVs, unless you have a VERY high end HDTV, only display 30fps, regardless of the device transmitting to it right? The standard for NTSC televisions is 60i or 30fps.


Technically the i in 60i means interlaced scan. Interlaced means every other line is updated per frame so in a way it's 60 fps, but only half the screen is updated (so it doesn't quite count as 30 fps either). Resolutions ending in "p" is progressive scan in which the whole picture is updated per frame. Motion pictures are shown in 24p.

(I say this not to support Poubelle, the obvious troll who is being obvious, but just to give some background info for those like Wint who appreciate it)

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 8:52pm by Xoie
#28 Feb 04 2013 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Wow this thread sure did turn out sucky. Congrats for wasting my 2 minutes.

I like turtles.

And it doesnt matter what people think, if xiv sells they will release it on ps4. Its not about what we or square thinks, its about money as always.

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 8:53pm by aadrenry
#29 Feb 04 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xoie wrote:
Wint wrote:
You realize Poubelle that modern TVs, unless you have a VERY high end HDTV, only display 30fps, regardless of the device transmitting to it right? The standard for NTSC televisions is 60i or 30fps.


Technically the i in 60i means interlaced scan. Interlaced means every other line is updated per frame so in a way it's 60 fps, but only half the screen is updated (so it doesn't quite count as 30 fps either). Resolutions ending in "p" is progressive scan in which the whole picture is updated per frame. Motion pictures are shown in 24p.

(I say this not to support Poubelle, the obvious troll who is being obvious, but just to give some background info for those like Wint who appreciate it)

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 8:52pm by Xoie


I had remembered that old tube TV's were 30 fps (well more like the 29.97 fps you mention) but it does appear that the TV's I looked at just now mostly support at least 50 fps. I don't mind if they run the game in a lower framerate as long as it's a consistent framerate with no dips during graphically intensive moments (something which my PS3 seems to struggle with during some games.
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#30 Feb 04 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, regarding derailing of threads...I tolerate it now because frankly, we don't have much to talk about. We only have what tidbits of information we can glean from the forums and any messages from Yoshi-P or the dev blog.

Once the game is actually launched and there isn't an NDA forbidding discussion, I will probably be more strict as far as derailing goes.
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#31 Feb 04 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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My friiend the PS3 dev says they really haven't maxed out the capabilities of the PS3 yet. It's not quite completely optimized.

Think of the difference in graphics between FFX and FFXII. We thought that FFX and MGS2 were the extent of what the PS2 was capable of. We were wrong.

I need to ask him what his opinion is of the PS4 - beyond the inevitable *****************
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#32 Feb 04 2013 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess everyone missed Yoshi's interview answer on this and many other things such as:
Micro-transactions
life time subscriptions
free to play model
ps4
directx 11 and so on.

His answer really has been:
"We've promised X and while we will definitely look at Y we have to keep all the promises we originally made. After we do that we will always look at what the next tech will bring"

DX11 is coming for sure; PS4 most likely as well if enough people want it. I'm hoping for a lifetime option myself even though I have legacy; I have a number of people that would join regardless but want a lifetime option as well.
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#33 Feb 04 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Elionara wrote:
I guess everyone missed Yoshi's interview answer on this and many other things such as:
Micro-transactions
life time subscriptions
free to play model
ps4
directx 11 and so on.

His answer really has been:
"We've promised X and while we will definitely look at Y we have to keep all the promises we originally made. After we do that we will always look at what the next tech will bring"

DX11 is coming for sure; PS4 most likely as well if enough people want it. I'm hoping for a lifetime option myself even though I have legacy; I have a number of people that would join regardless but want a lifetime option as well.


can you link?

I'm very curious about : micro-transactions & F2P, with other big budget games going that direction (cant find the interview)

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 10:25pm by Poubelle
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#34 Feb 04 2013 at 9:39 PM Rating: Good
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catwho wrote:
My friiend the PS3 dev says they really haven't maxed out the capabilities of the PS3 yet. It's not quite completely optimized.

Think of the difference in graphics between FFX and FFXII. We thought that FFX and MGS2 were the extent of what the PS2 was capable of. We were wrong.

I need to ask him what his opinion is of the PS4 - beyond the inevitable "@#%^!"


That doesn't surprise me really.. but the thing about FF12, if you recall, was you'd get a loading screen every seventeen feet. So yeah, the game looked better, but it came limited by system memory. I'd settle for slightly worse graphics if it meant better gameplay flow.

A port of FFXIV to the PS4 is going to depend largely on whether or not doing so would produce any kind of substantial improvement to the game. I wouldn't think they'd use development time on such a port if it wouldn't. That being said, how long before "PS3 limitations" becomes a thing?

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now this poster for example is simply spouting misinformation, surely I'll be sub-defaulted for telling him that he's incorrect.


Admittedly my source there was a wiki page on fps and broadcast standards, so it COULD be factually incorrect just because wiki. But if you'd care to point out something I'm specifically wrong about, I always like to learn things. Since the very next sentence is you saying that what I'd just said was correct, I'm slightly confused why you said I delivered misinformation.

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Once the game is actually launched and there isn't an NDA forbidding discussion, I will probably be more strict as far as derailing goes.


You have no idea how much that made me want to talk about waffles Smiley: wink
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#35 Feb 04 2013 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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No plans for lifetime subs atm:

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=135812727226861854
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#36 Feb 04 2013 at 10:28 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
now this poster for example is simply spouting misinformation, surely I'll be sub-defaulted for telling him that he's incorrect.



Admittedly my source there was a wiki page on fps and broadcast standards, so it COULD be factually incorrect just because wiki. But if you'd care to point out something I'm specifically wrong about, I always like to learn things. Since the very next sentence is you saying that what I'd just said was correct, I'm slightly confused why you said I delivered misinformation.


You're not wrong; notice how he didn't offer a real rebuttal (and his link funnily enough in no way supports his overarching argument... in fact it outright says that increasing the FPS does not necessarily improve the user experience).

He's just someone who hasn't yet learned that it's the way he argues rather than the substance of his arguments that make him so disliked. ****, I practically disagree with people on here like it was my profession, and I don't get a fraction of the hate he draws. Maybe he'll figure it out someday; until then, don't mind him.
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#37 Feb 04 2013 at 10:45 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
now this poster for example is simply spouting misinformation, surely I'll be sub-defaulted for telling him that he's incorrect.



Admittedly my source there was a wiki page on fps and broadcast standards, so it COULD be factually incorrect just because wiki. But if you'd care to point out something I'm specifically wrong about, I always like to learn things. Since the very next sentence is you saying that what I'd just said was correct, I'm slightly confused why you said I delivered misinformation.


You're not wrong; notice how he didn't offer a real rebuttal (and his link funnily enough in no way supports his overarching argument... in fact it outright says that increasing the FPS does not necessarily improve the user experience).

He's just someone who hasn't yet learned that it's the way he argues rather than the substance of his arguments that make him so disliked. ****, I practically disagree with people on here like it was my profession, and I don't get a fraction of the hate he draws. Maybe he'll figure it out someday; until then, don't mind him.


my link wasn't a rebuttal, it was more an attempt to change the subject back to PS3 vs PS4 FFXIV and the differences between a 30 fps and 60 fps game

but yes he is wrong, the standard hdtvs being sold today are 60hz and theyre all capable of 60 fps. he said they run at 30 fps which is wrong. i think movies and cable television broadcast at 27 fps but it doesnt have to do with the TV itself. games ideally run at 60. then again another poster above explained it in a better way, so I dunno why you're bringing it back up.

as for changing my posts so that they don't offend you, I have bigger goals in life than a color coded name and an "excellent" post rating, I just go to online forums to discuss things, not to involve myself in a popularity contest. you should just skip my posts because my blunt attitude clearly has you on the verge of tears.

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 11:46pm by Poubelle
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#38 Feb 04 2013 at 10:54 PM Rating: Default
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Oh, it's charming that you think you matter to anyone here half as much as you matter to yourself.

You want people to respect what you have to say, but don't want to be respectful about it. One day you'll reconcile the two. Or you won't, and the world will continue to give no ***** either way.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#39 Feb 04 2013 at 11:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Poubelle wrote:
Elionara wrote:
I guess everyone missed Yoshi's interview answer on this and many other things such as:
Micro-transactions
life time subscriptions
free to play model
ps4
directx 11 and so on.

His answer really has been:
"We've promised X and while we will definitely look at Y we have to keep all the promises we originally made. After we do that we will always look at what the next tech will bring"

DX11 is coming for sure; PS4 most likely as well if enough people want it. I'm hoping for a lifetime option myself even though I have legacy; I have a number of people that would join regardless but want a lifetime option as well.


can you link?

I'm very curious about : micro-transactions & F2P, with other big budget games going that direction (cant find the interview)

Edited, Feb 4th 2013 10:25pm by Poubelle


Googled: ffxiv ps4

3rd link:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-13-final-fantasy-14-on-ps4-we-must-first-fulfil-that-promise-of-ps3

Quote:
"It still hasn't been confirmed that a PlayStation 4 will be released!" laughed FF14 producer and director Naoki Yoshida, answering a question asked by Eurogamer behind closed doors at E3.

"For the sake of argument, we'll assume that PlayStation 4 will be announced.

"As you know, our goal as a developer and company is we want as many people to play this game as possible. If that means when a new piece of hardware comes out - if putting our game on that piece of hardware means that we'll get to reach out to new people, then we definitely want to do that.

"But the first thing that we have is, we made a promise to our players that we are going to release this on PlayStation 3. So we must first fulfil that promise. That is our first goal. We must work as hard as we can to fulfil the promise that we made to the players.

"Once we've made that promise, then we can move on to the next promise. And at that time, if moving on to a new piece of hardware is there, then that will be our next promise.
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#40 Feb 05 2013 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
The PS3 was a decisive upgrade in a way that the PS4 simply CANNOT be by the standards of basic hardware upgrades. If not due to the lack of meaningful growth in the tech, then due to the meaningful lack of growth in the capacity for human experience.


Well I don't know about you but I simply cannot enjoy a game that fails to render each eyelash of a character as a unique and fully-interactive object. I have my priorities straight, don't you?

The same goes for eyebrows too, of course.
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#41 Feb 05 2013 at 7:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
The PS3 was a decisive upgrade in a way that the PS4 simply CANNOT be by the standards of basic hardware upgrades. If not due to the lack of meaningful growth in the tech, then due to the meaningful lack of growth in the capacity for human experience.


Well I don't know about you but I simply cannot enjoy a game that fails to render each eyelash of a character as a unique and fully-interactive object. I have my priorities straight, don't you?

The same goes for eyebrows too, of course.


Smiley: laugh

If they manage to bring Luminous Engine to the PS4, you'll get your eyelashes, and eyebrows!
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#42 Feb 05 2013 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
****, I practically disagree with people on here like it was my profession, and I don't get a fraction of the hate he draws.


True.

Kachi irritates the ever-loving **** out of me sometimes, but I never rate him down since he does it in a respectful way Smiley: tongue
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#43 Feb 05 2013 at 8:14 AM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
****, I practically disagree with people on here like it was my profession, and I don't get a fraction of the hate he draws.


True.

Kachi irritates the ever-loving **** out of me sometimes, but I never rate him down since he does it in a respectful way Smiley: tongue



im sure I irritate you a LOT more :p
#44 Feb 05 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
****, I practically disagree with people on here like it was my profession, and I don't get a fraction of the hate he draws.


True.

Kachi irritates the ever-loving **** out of me sometimes, but I never rate him down since he does it in a respectful way Smiley: tongue



im sure I irritate you a LOT more :p


You do have your moments Smiley: laugh
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#45 Feb 05 2013 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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The hypothetical "PS4" wouldn't improve on the graphics as so much as improve the aspects they were trying to do with FFXIV in the first place.

Hypothetical problems that could possibly have been resolved: You know how FFXIV 1.0 had seamless transitions between zones but were limited in the graphics they could display resulting in bland zones and heavy resource-reuse? Better hardware in the system could have averted that problem.
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#46 Feb 05 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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We will never see it on the Xbox due to Microsoft. Microsoft does not want any cross platform games or games that use servers off their network that they don't have control over of billing. I have been waiting for ever to hear this game would come to the 360 and was developed to be for a long time. Believe me I would love to see it.

Also as for the ps4 it will depend on two things.
How successful the ps4 is and how successful FFXIV is.

From what I understand from rumors is the ps4 is nothing like the ps3 in architecture so stuff wont be a direct port. The xbox 720 and the ps4 should actually be very similar if the rumors are true.

Edited, Feb 5th 2013 12:48pm by Nashred
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#47 Feb 05 2013 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
We will never see it on the Xbox due to Microsoft. Microsoft does not want any cross platform games or games that use servers off their network that they don't have control over of billing. I have been waiting for ever to hear this game would come to the 360 and was developed to be for a long time. Believe me I would love to see it.


So how does XI do it?
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#48 Feb 05 2013 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Nashred wrote:
We will never see it on the Xbox due to Microsoft. Microsoft does not want any cross platform games or games that use servers off their network that they don't have control over of billing. I have been waiting for ever to hear this game would come to the 360 and was developed to be for a long time. Believe me I would love to see it.
So how does XI do it?
Screenshot
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#49 Feb 05 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
You know how FFXIV 1.0 had seamless transitions between zones but were limited in the graphics they could display resulting in bland zones and heavy resource-reuse? Better hardware in the system could have averted that problem.


So how does WoW do it on PCs that were considered average back in 2004? It wasn't just "seamless" zoning between similar looking zones either, but you could literally fly between very different looking zones without skipping a beat.
#50 Feb 05 2013 at 2:25 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Nashred wrote:
We will never see it on the Xbox due to Microsoft. Microsoft does not want any cross platform games or games that use servers off their network that they don't have control over of billing. I have been waiting for ever to hear this game would come to the 360 and was developed to be for a long time. Believe me I would love to see it.


So how does XI do it?


XI was able to because SE had a stronger negotiating position back when it was decided. Back then, SE had leverage of a strong IP and the "potential" of mass subscribers that might translate into more folks getting additional Xbox titles and a subsequent gold subscription. It didn't turn out as lucrative as Microsoft had hoped, so this time around they aren't playing. Every other title that uses online features requires a gold membership (you can't even stream netflix or amazon prime, both of which even my freaking smart TV does without an additional charge), and SE (rightly so) decided that since Microsoft would insist on a "surcharge" for this game (gold), they wouldn't waste any more development time on the xbox version.

So yea, it's Microsoft's fault. I'm not sure if it's really about billing as much as requiring Gold to play, and SE won't have it.

For the record, I agree with them. If XI wasn't silver I wouldn't have ever played it on xbox.



Edited, Feb 5th 2013 3:28pm by Torrence
#51 Feb 05 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Default
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I think that the other thing that the 360 has going against it for a release of XIV is the fact that the system is not very popular in Japan.

Edited, Feb 5th 2013 3:29pm by Kaelanis
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