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Letter from the Producer, XLIII (02/15/2013)Follow

#1 Feb 15 2013 at 4:01 AM Rating: Good
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#2 Feb 15 2013 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Just got super exited when I looked on my phone and saw that email from square. I was disappointed that I have to wait 10 more days for beta, but happy that at least we have a date now!
#3 Feb 15 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm...

*looks at the calender*

Going to dial up one of my friends on Moday, say "Seven Days" in a raspy voice, then hang up.
#4 Feb 15 2013 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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Hooray!!!! Just so excited that its almost here.

My ps3 waiteth lol
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#5 Feb 15 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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I don't think PS3 beta is until phase 3. Not sure if that is even what you meant, but just thought I'd mention it anyway.

At least according to the beta roadmap.
http://gdl.square-enix.com/ffxiv/download/en/FFXIV_2.0_BETA_Roadmap_EN.pdf
#6 Feb 15 2013 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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"If you're up to the challenge, an instanced dungeon designed with level 30 players in mind will also be ready for testing. The boss has a few tricks up its sleeve that are sure to give you a run for your money."

I so hope that last part is true... would be wonderful to see proof that there will be things hardcore enough to require some degree or skill and challenge instead of the button mashing skill spamming casual fest direction this game seems to be going in
#7 Feb 15 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
I don't think PS3 beta is until phase 3. Not sure if that is even what you meant, but just thought I'd mention it anyway.

At least according to the beta roadmap.
http://gdl.square-enix.com/ffxiv/download/en/FFXIV_2.0_BETA_Roadmap_EN.pdf


Yeah I was aware of that. I just meant that the sooner phase 1 starts the sooner the ps3 phase starts.

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#8 Feb 15 2013 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wooooooot! I can't wait! Its even more exciting now that they said we'll be getting some more features and character options because of the "delay". The ONLY thing that left me semi-scratching my head was this quote...

"Sidequests are designed to accompany the main scenario, so it may be a bit of a pain to level up after that point. This won’t be the case in the official release version, but until then we ask that you do your leveling through the variety of content that will be available."

So this means that all those sidequests will be OP in terms of EXP compared to everything else. I was personally hoping for a more balanced approach to leveling (if in fact that quote does imply they will be OP EXP). Mainly so everyone on all ends of the exhausting "where should we get our exp debate" would be happy (because making everyone happy is a good thing!).

Before anyone bites my head off for saying that, notice that I did not say which type of content I prefer leveling on and because I do not wish to get into a debate on that. I am ONLY saying it would be a good thing to have multiple ways to level that are equal (or close) in terms of EXP per hour. Every game's leveling system gets old after a while. Having more than one option to mix things up when the other grows stale is a good thing! I also realize that these quest wont be repeatable (I think), so after we've gone through it all on our first class we'll be forced to find other methods of leveling on the other classes we choose to play with.

I will stay optimistic! I'm pretty sure I'll still consider this game better than anything else I've been playing since 1.0 went down. :D

EDIT: I also would like to point out that without having done ARR's quests, there's a very good possibility they blow us all away with how much fun they are and leave everyone satisfied whether you are a Leve-Lover, Mob-Grinder, Sidequest-Supporter or hoping for all to be created equal. Only time will tell! I have faith in you Yoshi!

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 10:59am by scorleone
#9 Feb 15 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"If you're up to the challenge, an instanced dungeon designed with level 30 players in mind will also be ready for testing. The boss has a few tricks up its sleeve that are sure to give you a run for your money."

I so hope that last part is true... would be wonderful to see proof that there will be things hardcore enough to require some degree or skill and challenge instead of the button mashing skill spamming casual fest direction this game seems to be going in


Don't get your hopes up too much, I bet is not going to be really easy but it is not going to be hardcore. Since is Beta and only for 2 weeks, the boss must go down with players with normal gear and easy enough that most of the beta players can beat it. I bet it will take some skill to beat it and probably you will need to have a gladiator in your party for it but it is not going to be Garuda level of a figth. But I wonder if it going to be a 4 players party req or 8 players.
#10 Feb 15 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Or maybe it's a giant booby monster and that's why he said you would "have your hands full". Speculation is fun!!
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Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#11 Feb 15 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
FedeMax wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"If you're up to the challenge, an instanced dungeon designed with level 30 players in mind will also be ready for testing. The boss has a few tricks up its sleeve that are sure to give you a run for your money."

I so hope that last part is true... would be wonderful to see proof that there will be things hardcore enough to require some degree or skill and challenge instead of the button mashing skill spamming casual fest direction this game seems to be going in


Don't get your hopes up too much, I bet is not going to be really easy but it is not going to be hardcore. Since is Beta and only for 2 weeks, the boss must go down with players with normal gear and easy enough that most of the beta players can beat it. I bet it will take some skill to beat it and probably you will need to have a gladiator in your party for it but it is not going to be Garuda level of a figth. But I wonder if it going to be a 4 players party req or 8 players.


A few tricks with lag and flames perhaps!?....Nah, hoping that's a thing of the past.
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#12 Feb 15 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Default
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FedeMax wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"If you're up to the challenge, an instanced dungeon designed with level 30 players in mind will also be ready for testing. The boss has a few tricks up its sleeve that are sure to give you a run for your money."

I so hope that last part is true... would be wonderful to see proof that there will be things hardcore enough to require some degree or skill and challenge instead of the button mashing skill spamming casual fest direction this game seems to be going in


Don't get your hopes up too much, I bet is not going to be really easy but it is not going to be hardcore. Since is Beta and only for 2 weeks, the boss must go down with players with normal gear and easy enough that most of the beta players can beat it. I bet it will take some skill to beat it and probably you will need to have a gladiator in your party for it but it is not going to be Garuda level of a figth. But I wonder if it going to be a 4 players party req or 8 players.



im not expecting it to be super hard Im sure expecting it to be hard enough that might die once or twice or at least FEEL threatened that i MIGHT die.. instead beating it and not even losing half of my hp lol. As for betsa being weeks? thats an minimum Im sure theyre gonna take longer.. I mean heck they wont even give Gamestop info on the game yet (theyre still selling FFXIV vanilla for PS3 at 59.99 for preorder lol
#13 Feb 15 2013 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
im not expecting it to be super hard Im sure expecting it to be hard enough that might die once or twice or at least FEEL threatened that i MIGHT die.. instead beating it and not even losing half of my hp lol. As for betsa being weeks? thats an minimum Im sure theyre gonna take longer.. I mean heck they wont even give Gamestop info on the game yet (theyre still selling FFXIV vanilla for PS3 at 59.99 for preorder lol


Walmart, Target, Amazon, and Bestbuy all have ARR for pre-order.

The absence at Gamestop is conspicuous, but not too surprising. I seem to recall not being able to get ToAU for FFXI at any of them back when it came out, unless you wanted the XBox version. They've never seemed interested in selling expansions to SE games.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 2:01pm by Xoie
#14 Feb 15 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just hope it's difficult because playing your class well requires considerable skill... not because they amped up the enemy stats, gave them some silly gimmick, or because you need a certain party configuration to stand a fair chance.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#15 Feb 15 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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GDLYL wrote:


New letter. That is one "healthy" looking female Galka :o


She is too thin. I am disappoint. At least she doesn't have spindly arms like every other female in the game, but really SE, can I please have a character that more closely matches my body type? I'm chunky and yes, I'd like a char that looks tough and chunky like me, not like I have been squeezed unnaturally at the middle... no, I don't want to look like an hour glass thank you. I really hate this. The hume ladies in XI don't look like they've had all their ribs broken and their bodies contorted...

I was hoping that Roegadyn ladies would fit the bill, but it looks like the mysogynist designers at SE can't bear the idea of a woman with more than a 17 inch waistline, even if it means she looks ridiculous with double d ******* because of it.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 11:49am by Olorinus
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#16 Feb 15 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
im not expecting it to be super hard Im sure expecting it to be hard enough that might die once or twice or at least FEEL threatened that i MIGHT die.. instead beating it and not even losing half of my hp lol. As for betsa being weeks? thats an minimum Im sure theyre gonna take longer.. I mean heck they wont even give Gamestop info on the game yet (theyre still selling FFXIV vanilla for PS3 at 59.99 for preorder lol


Walmart, Target, Amazon, and Bestbuy all have ARR for pre-order.

The absence at Gamestop is conspicuous, but not too surprising. I seem to recall not being able to get ToAU for FFXI at any of them back when it came out, unless you wanted the XBox version. They've never seemed interested in selling expansions to SE games.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 2:01pm by Xoie



Gamestop is the closest store I could pre order it at and and Amazon is an option but then i have to wait for shipping and might get it days later even with one dya shipping Id still be 24 hours late lol

Also gamestop always had the FFXI expansions for PS2 at launch.. now if you didnt get em on day one or waited a week or something THEN yeah lol but first day? always had em

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 2:17pm by DuoMaxwellxx
#17 Feb 15 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
I just hope it's difficult because playing your class well requires considerable skill... not because they amped up the enemy stats, gave them some silly gimmick, or because you need a certain party configuration to stand a fair chance.



"certain party configutation" were only for those who sucks and lacked any strategical battle analyzing skill.

hence proven by me and my group beating CoP missions as they came out (thus pre patch and pre nerfs) without even ONE of the "required" jobs or subjobs
#18 Feb 15 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Kachi wrote:
I just hope it's difficult because playing your class well requires considerable skill... not because they amped up the enemy stats, gave them some silly gimmick, or because you need a certain party configuration to stand a fair chance.



"certain party configutation" were only for those who sucks and lacked any strategical battle analyzing skill.

hence proven by me and my group beating CoP missions as they came out (thus pre patch and pre nerfs) without even ONE of the "required" jobs or subjobs


Let me rephrase: a high chance of winning with certain party configurations; a much lower chance of winning with other configurations. No wait, that's pretty much the same thing that I already said ("stand a fair chance").

You overcame the odds, and so did I-- good for us and all, pat yourself on the back real good. It doesn't change the fact that it turned a lot of people away from the game because it makes things less fun.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#19 Feb 15 2013 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
GDLYL wrote:


New letter. That is one "healthy" looking female Galka :o


She is too thin. I am disappoint. At least she doesn't have spindly arms like every other female in the game, but really SE, can I please have a character that more closely matches my body type? I'm chunky and yes, I'd like a char that looks tough and chunky like me, not like I have been squeezed unnaturally at the middle... no, I don't want to look like an hour glass thank you. I really hate this. The hume ladies in XI don't look like they've had all their ribs broken and their bodies contorted...

I was hoping that Roegadyn ladies would fit the bill, but it looks like the mysogynist designers at SE can't bear the idea of a woman with more than a 17 inch waistline, even if it means she looks ridiculous with double d ******* because of it.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 11:49am by Olorinus


Ya, and the male characters are all in good shape and have nice bodies. As a man, this misandry is insulting. Where is my beer belly and hairy bod?y! What is with all these unaturally hairless guys?! I guess I should be more insulted that ZAM is telling me misandry isn't even a word. Pro Tip: Females who are fit have that body type. Besides you'll only slow the raid down with -10% movement speed :o. /realism
#20 Feb 15 2013 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Xoie wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
im not expecting it to be super hard Im sure expecting it to be hard enough that might die once or twice or at least FEEL threatened that i MIGHT die.. instead beating it and not even losing half of my hp lol. As for betsa being weeks? thats an minimum Im sure theyre gonna take longer.. I mean heck they wont even give Gamestop info on the game yet (theyre still selling FFXIV vanilla for PS3 at 59.99 for preorder lol


Walmart, Target, Amazon, and Bestbuy all have ARR for pre-order.

The absence at Gamestop is conspicuous, but not too surprising. I seem to recall not being able to get ToAU for FFXI at any of them back when it came out, unless you wanted the XBox version. They've never seemed interested in selling expansions to SE games.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 2:01pm by Xoie



Gamestop is the closest store I could pre order it at and and Amazon is an option but then i have to wait for shipping and might get it days later even with one dya shipping Id still be 24 hours late lol

Also gamestop always had the FFXI expansions for PS2 at launch.. now if you didnt get em on day one or waited a week or something THEN yeah lol but first day? always had em

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 2:17pm by DuoMaxwellxx


Amazon has release date delivery for one day shipping... Unless you're a Prime Member, 2 day shipping is also release day.
#21 Feb 15 2013 at 5:30 PM Rating: Default
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lol so prime members dont get release date shipping for 1 day deliveries? lol also I thought release date delivery were only for games/products that specifically say "is eligible for release day shipping" or w/e?
#22 Feb 15 2013 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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GDLYL wrote:

Ya, and the male characters are all in good shape and have nice bodies. As a man, this misandry is insulting. Where is my beer belly and hairy bod?y! What is with all these unaturally hairless guys?! I guess I should be more insulted that ZAM is telling me misandry isn't even a word. Pro Tip: Females who are fit have that body type. Besides you'll only slow the raid down with -10% movement speed :o. /realism


Except that muscular is not the same as abnormally skinny. Most more muscular women do not have itty bitty waists. Real human women are proportioned, which means their chests are not 5X as big as their waists. Also the male characters have a huge range between skinny medium and big waists. All the female chars have tiny waists.

It's not about "having a hairy beerbelly" it's about looking relatively normal/having proper proportions.

Like I felt really uncomfortable when my char was wearing clothes with bare arms because it made me think of anorexics. Anorexic people are not hot. They are scary looking. And they can't wield a sword.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 3:35pm by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#23 Feb 15 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
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None of the FF women I've seen look disproportionate in any way... they all look like totally realistic, healthy body shapes. Based on certain beauty ideals, for certain, but still totally healthy and realistic. I've known many girls with similar figures. Final Fantasy is relatively good about avoiding comic book females in comparison to other games.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#24 Feb 15 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
None of the FF women I've seen look disproportionate in any way... they all look like totally realistic, healthy body shapes. Based on certain beauty ideals, for certain, but still totally healthy and realistic. I've known many girls with similar figures. Final Fantasy is relatively good about avoiding comic book females in comparison to other games.


I'd say this is true generally but not in XIV.

Screenshot


Arms and waist are way too skinny. They creep me out.

I like my XI hume way better:

Screenshot


Not fat, just healthy looking. I don't dig the anorexic look.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#25 Feb 15 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Arms and waist are way too skinny. They creep me out.

Hint: the base model might be asian women.
#26 Feb 15 2013 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
FedeMax wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"If you're up to the challenge, an instanced dungeon designed with level 30 players in mind will also be ready for testing. The boss has a few tricks up its sleeve that are sure to give you a run for your money."

I so hope that last part is true... would be wonderful to see proof that there will be things hardcore enough to require some degree or skill and challenge instead of the button mashing skill spamming casual fest direction this game seems to be going in


Don't get your hopes up too much, I bet is not going to be really easy but it is not going to be hardcore. Since is Beta and only for 2 weeks, the boss must go down with players with normal gear and easy enough that most of the beta players can beat it. I bet it will take some skill to beat it and probably you will need to have a gladiator in your party for it but it is not going to be Garuda level of a figth. But I wonder if it going to be a 4 players party req or 8 players.


A few tricks with lag and flames perhaps!?....Nah, hoping that's a thing of the past.



Can I just say we are all going to be able to get our AF gear at a certain, lower, level.?.?.... So, we will be stronger than an average "beta" player, because we will be in AF gear for our jobs. How do I know that? I don't know, someone tell me how I know that...

#27 Feb 15 2013 at 6:41 PM Rating: Good
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
GDLYL wrote:

Ya, and the male characters are all in good shape and have nice bodies. As a man, this misandry is insulting. Where is my beer belly and hairy bod?y! What is with all these unaturally hairless guys?! I guess I should be more insulted that ZAM is telling me misandry isn't even a word. Pro Tip: Females who are fit have that body type. Besides you'll only slow the raid down with -10% movement speed :o. /realism


Except that muscular is not the same as abnormally skinny. Most more muscular women do not have itty bitty waists. Real human women are proportioned, which means their chests are not 5X as big as their waists. Also the male characters have a huge range between skinny medium and big waists. All the female chars have tiny waists.

It's not about "having a hairy beerbelly" it's about looking relatively normal/having proper proportions.

Like I felt really uncomfortable when my char was wearing clothes with bare arms because it made me think of anorexics. Anorexic people are not hot. They are scary looking. And they can't wield a sword.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 3:35pm by Olorinus


All popular games get them. The difference in prime is that 2 day shipping is FREE. So we don't have to pay for release date delivery that's all.
#28 Feb 15 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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Squeeeeee!
#29 Feb 15 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Arms and waist are way too skinny. They creep me out.

Hint: the base model might be asian women.


I think that the FFXI hume looks that way due to their aspect ratio rather than character model. My character looked stumpy too when doing 16:9 on a none 16:9 screen.

Edited, Feb 15th 2013 7:45pm by GDLYL
#30 Feb 15 2013 at 9:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Uh, yeah, on that second screen shot, the aspect ratio is way off. It looks like someone stepped on your screen. And Rinsui would be correct; that's a very common figure type for Asian women, and it's really not rare, or even bordering on anorexic for American women either.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#31 Feb 16 2013 at 12:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, what gets me about that character model is the hips. I've heard the phrase "hollow hipped thin" but I never quite understood what it meant until now. The model's thighs are a bit wider than her actual hips, and there's a dent where the fat from the hips ought to be.

The arms and waist are thin, but proportioned correctly all the same.
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#32 Feb 16 2013 at 2:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I didnt see anyone comment about the Malboro/Rock Monster pics, those two look awesome to me. I been fighting the Malboro in XI lately so its a big step up imo.
#33 Feb 16 2013 at 5:08 AM Rating: Good
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I didnt see anyone comment about the Malboro/Rock Monster pics, those two look awesome to me. I been fighting the Malboro in XI lately so its a big step up imo.

Well, yes, due to the drought of info during those last few weeks, our brains are in hibernation. For males that means that only the most basic insicncts remain: discussing boob sizes, hips, and gamer chick hairstyles. No worries, we'll recover in a few days once beta starts. ;)
#34 Feb 16 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
Haven't had a chance to post in this thread yet!

I'm very happy that beta is starting soon, and I'm eager to see how it's received by the gaming media. It really seems as if SE is really pulling out all the stops to make this game great; even throwing a carefully themed media event in the U.S. sends a message that they know how important this is.

And, of course, I'm excited to get back into Eorzea, even if just as a beta tester. My wife and I bought Guild Wars 2 at launch so we'd have something to hold us over, and while GW2 is very pretty/polished, it just feels incredibly easy and kind of hollow compared to FFXIV. Based on the buzz/screenshots/videos of ARR released so far, I'm really hoping that ARR will have that same degree of polish without sacrificing any difficulty, realism or storytelling. We'll know what's happening soon enough.

Now, on to the good stuff... body proportions!

I personally think it's just as questionable for game developers to portray all of their male characters as juiced up beefcakes as it is to portray female characters as anorexic supermodels. Sure, you could argue that it's unhealthier to starve yourself to become skinny, but the fact is that it's literally impossible for most men to look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. So, if we're talking about being unrealistically pressured to have/maintain a certain body type, then I think it swings both ways. Although, I will say there are more out-of-shape men who society doesn't view as being unattractive.

On the other hand, pretend for a moment that you live in Eorzea. You don't have a ton of anima, so you end up having to run LONG distances just for the most simple tasks. Heck, just the lack of proper linkshell management tools probably gives you an extra 1,000 points per day on your Nike Fuel Band. Then there's all the fighting, and also the many sets of dungeon runs that some adventurers do each day. And even when you're idle, most of the time you're still standing, refusing to sleep. Lots of people in Eorzea don't even eat food, so caloric intake must be insanely low.

Thus, the picture you see above.
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#35 Feb 16 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:

And, of course, I'm excited to get back into Eorzea, even if just as a beta tester. My wife and I bought Guild Wars 2 at launch so we'd have something to hold us over, and while GW2 is very pretty/polished, it just feels incredibly easy and kind of hollow compared to FFXIV. Based on the buzz/screenshots/videos of ARR released so far, I'm really hoping that ARR will have that same degree of polish without sacrificing any difficulty, realism or storytelling. We'll know what's happening soon enough.

That's exactly the word I used to describe GW2 in comparison to FF. I can never quite put my finger on what exactly makes me feel that way though. Sometimes I think its just because XIV was my first MMO so all my nostalgia driven feelings are based on that game, but maybe not now that I see someone else described it the same way. That's probably the worst thing that could have ever happened to me (having XIV be my first love), now the things I crave in games are what the vast majority of people seem to hate =( . Things like the slow grind to cap, a huge emphasis on crafting, the need for parties on the majority of content (even when exping) and a slower but more challenging battle system. Ever since XIV went down I've been searching for a game that has these concepts in its design and I have not found a single one that comes close. What's worse is that even XIV now feels like its moving away from all these things - hopefully not completely, but every new change to the game is headed in the opposite direction of all the things I liked most about 1.0.

I still have faith though. As I keep saying every time I start to sound negative about the game, this will most likely still be the best MMO for me when its finally completed. :P

Edited, Feb 16th 2013 1:33pm by scorleone
#36 Feb 16 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
I think the problem with GW2 is that it's just too casual, and way too easy to do without needing any help. I'm level 68 now, and on my level 57 personal story mission, and I've only ever needed help once (and that's only because the battle was underwater, and underwater controls aren't as fluid as when fighting on land). There's also no real feeling of progression... there is incentive to explore maps to do all the heart quests (which are mostly very grindy and annoying), but there's no reason to go back to anything again.

The trading post is flooded with cheap, powerful items, so it's super easy to get gear... there isn't much difficult content that you need to team up with others for, except for dungeons, which I hear are kind of unbalanced, overly chaotic and broken. Also, while the game did do away with the "holy trinity," I've got to admit that I kind of like the holy trinity. I prefer games like FFXI and FFXIV where jobs have more defined roles, which lends itself to better strategies in battle (nothing I've done yet in GW2 really requires much strategy at all).

Also, it's really hard to just roam peacefully in the world in GW2, because there are so many monsters all over the place... and because you automatically level synch to each area, you are never at a higher level so that monsters won't attack you. Walking around in Eorzea (or Vana'diel) can be relaxing at times... in GW2, not so much.

Anyway, not trying to turn this into a "let's rip on GW2!" thread, because it is a fun game... but it's just not very meaningful, and if the game shut down today, I wouldn't care.
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#37 Feb 16 2013 at 3:49 PM Rating: Good
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GW2 wasn't built for longevity... that's for sure. But it didn't need to be from the developer's side because it isn't a subscription game.
However, at least the combat could be challenging throughout the game if you hunted in a reasonable level range. And in the endgame areas, combat was pretty much always at least a little bit of a challenge.

I'd agree that it had a poor incentive system, though. You also moved through each area too quickly, and the dynamic events were much too frequent to be cool. To me at least, it proved that wherein pacing is concerned, faster is not necessarily better.
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#38 Feb 16 2013 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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I wonder if its the demand from gamers to be able to start endgame faster or the devs not willing to put in the effort to add enough content that would support a longer grind to cap that's influenced all these games (GW2 is certainly not alone in being way to fast). I always blamed gamers for the change in XIV's EXP because I remember so many people complaining about it taking so long before the PL patch. I could have been completely wrong though. Looking back on it now, maybe they changed it because they realized it was much easier to just push everyone to cap and try to release as much endgame content as possible.

Especially since all content before cap becomes obsolete and forgotten after you've leveled up past it...

Edited, Feb 16th 2013 5:40pm by scorleone
#39 Feb 16 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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GW2 had no shortage of content, though. They had way more content than they needed, and players could easily get to cap without doing the majority of it. Seriously, people who have never played GW2 probably can't even fathom how much more content it had than FFXIV. I would describe the difference as "embarrassing." The game literally just gave you XP too fast to do it all. Then when you got to the level cap, there was absolutely no value in gaining XP (another huge design flaw).

And content that you level past doesn't have to be obsolete at all. GW2 didn't quite do it correctly, though. They created the way to make it challenging, but didn't give you a reason to do it.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#40 Feb 16 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Kachi speaks the truth.

The other big weakness in GW2 was the voice acting. I've always preferred reading text over hearing voices, and GW2 is exactly why.

But yeah, GW2 had far more content than FFXIV, and it wasn't even close. But, as Kachi said, GW2 would have been a much stronger game had they found a way to pace their game better.

I'd also argue that pre-endgame content in FFXI and FFXIV is far more valuable than in other MMOs because players have the ability to play as multiple jobs per character. If done right, there is no reason why a lot of pre-endgame content would ever need to be completely obsolete, especially if higher-level players can be level synched down.
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#41 Feb 16 2013 at 6:27 PM Rating: Default
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"If you're up to the challenge, an instanced dungeon designed with level 30 players in mind will also be ready for testing. The boss has a few tricks up its sleeve that are sure to give you a run for your money."

I so hope that last part is true... would be wonderful to see proof that there will be things hardcore enough to require some degree or skill and challenge instead of the button mashing skill spamming casual fest direction this game seems to be going in


Oh don't be too relieved yet, ARR will be a skill spamming casual fest as that's the audience they're targeting, just with the XIV twist of needing to avoid certain field obsticles/attacks, like in Ifrit the Cracks/Plumes, Garuda her shrieks, Khim with his sandpits etc.


#42 Feb 16 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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Both really good points there as far as tons of content in GW2 and the need for more in XIV because of the ability to play all classes.

I played my character in GW2 all the way to cap, I never logged in again after I got there though - I immediately went back to XIV. I am pretty sure it was done in less than a month which made it feel like I didn't really accomplish anything at all when I got there (not to mention half the server was also already at cap by then too). To their defense, I was able to play more than usual at that time because I wasn't working many hours, but even on a normal schedule I would have made it within 2 months with time to spare. The exp they handed out was ridiculous like you said, they made it so you couldn't "not earn" exp even if you tried, lol.

It all goes back to the hollow feeling for me when talking about their content...sure there was tons of stuff going on, but none of it gave me that sense of immersion that FF did. Instead of things like hamlet, relic quests or even Jobs/AF quest that involve you working towards some type of award or landmark (not sure how to phrase that, but you know what I mean) in the progression of your character - I think everything there felt more like they just threw more meaningless mobs/areas/quests at you, lol. Honestly, the thing I enjoyed most in that game was doing the "puzzles"... looking back those are the only thing I can remember doing that got me really excited (especially trying to complete the ones in WvW areas).
#43 Feb 16 2013 at 9:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, it's really a shame that the things GW2 did so wrong were really not even hard things to fix. Slow down the pacing, make equipment upgrades more meaningful, let players change classes. There, you have a game that is automatically twice as good. If on top of that they did a better job of balancing the class abilities and traits so that more configurations were viable, made meaningful drops that were encounter-specific, and made the game a bit more social with more balanced group play, you'd probably have the best MMO to date by a wide margin. Even those things aren't particularly difficult. They made gameplay which was pretty fun, and arguably, that's the hard part.

(and I'll echo what Thayos said about the voice-acting, at least for player characters... I hated the way they made my character sound)
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#44 Feb 16 2013 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Yeah, it's really a shame that the things GW2 did so wrong were really not even hard things to fix. Slow down the pacing, make equipment upgrades more meaningful, let players change classes. There, you have a game that is automatically twice as good.

This is more of an opinion though. I have no interest in GW2, and I haven't tested it first hand, so I could just be talking out of my *** here. The things you say would improve the gameplay, won't necessarily make the game more enjoyable for others. The problem with what your ideal of the game should be sounds more like the barebones FFXI. While I played FFXI for many years, I don't think it's a good structure for any modern game to be built upon.

I'll defend my argument by using your examples:
  • Pacing
  • I've not played gw2, if you can make it to level cap within a month, maybe there's a problem with the game. If you can make level cap in 2-3 months of moderate playing, I see no real issue with that, assuming that there's some sort small grind, or tiered endgame content before you can tackle the hardest enemies in the game. While in XI, to be really good at what you were doing, you needed to go back and level support jobs, you had to wait for group invites and also unlock the next set of levels. It was literally impossible to play the game at your own pace.
  • Meaningful Equip
  • This might be nitpicky, and would probably boil down to a personal preference, but you're much more likely to see incremental upgrades in ARR, similar to other games. Gear in XI played a much more crucial role than it did in other games, if only because entire sets of gear were required to perform certain functions. If you were a tank who couldn't hit the gear haste cap, you were automatically more of a liability, since you'd be less likely to always have shadows up. Also, it wasn't uncommon to have a piece of gear 20-50 levels lower than your current level. Other games aren't like that; gear will always make a difference, but not in the same way that it did in XI.
  • Class Changes
  • While I initially enjoyed the class system in XI, I really only played one or two classes. I was also really bummed out when I had to go back and level sub jobs that I had no interest in. This aspect of the game could possibly be a turn off to potential players who have interest in just one class or role. Another issue that arises is that developers can get lazy with class balance. We saw this all the time in XI, Paladin and Ninja constantly flip-flopped as to which was the better tank. If you have players who are locked into a single class, devs can't brush them off and say "Well, this encounter isn't really designed for that class."


tl;dr- Stuff that was cool in XI causes imbalance in other games.
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#45 Feb 17 2013 at 1:04 AM Rating: Decent
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You're preaching to the choir, buddy, but no, that's not just my opinion. That's basic game design principles. One person is an opinion; I'm talking about what hundreds of thousands of players have noticed.

I'll be happy to tell you about the many things wrong with FFXI, but GW2 is a game that genuinely had potential that was wasted for the reasons given. The problem with your argument is that you don't really know anything about GW2, so you don't really know what you're arguing.

Quote:
Pacing
I've not played gw2, if you can make it to level cap within a month, maybe there's a problem with the game. If you can make level cap in 2-3 months of moderate playing, I see no real issue with that, assuming that there's some sort small grind, or tiered endgame content before you can tackle the hardest enemies in the game. While in XI, to be really good at what you were doing, you needed to go back and level support jobs, you had to wait for group invites and also unlock the next set of levels. It was literally impossible to play the game at your own pace.


In GW2, you can make it to the level cap after 2 months of relatively casual play, and then there is almost nothing else to do. There are things you can do to improve your character, sure, but there's no reason to do them, because your character has already done everything there is to do. You can get a better weapon, but what will you use it against?

Quote:
Meaningful Equip
This might be nitpicky, and would probably boil down to a personal preference, but you're much more likely to see incremental upgrades in ARR, similar to other games. Gear in XI played a much more crucial role than it did in other games, if only because entire sets of gear were required to perform certain functions. If you were a tank who couldn't hit the gear haste cap, you were automatically more of a liability, since you'd be less likely to always have shadows up. Also, it wasn't uncommon to have a piece of gear 20-50 levels lower than your current level. Other games aren't like that; gear will always make a difference, but not in the same way that it did in XI.


GW2 put virtually no thought into its gear whatsoever. There are almost no special effects, and the equipment is generic as it could possibly be. The best weapons in the game don't even do anything special... just damage and a couple of stat bonuses. A level 80 staff frequently looks the same as a level 1 staff. And gear doesn't even drop off of specific monsters. You don't have to kill the epic dragon of doom to get anything... all monsters drop generic equipment... which can all be easily purchased on the Auction House (with real money, no less).

Quote:
Class Changes
While I initially enjoyed the class system in XI, I really only played one or two classes. I was also really bummed out when I had to go back and level sub jobs that I had no interest in. This aspect of the game could possibly be a turn off to potential players who have interest in just one class or role. Another issue that arises is that developers can get lazy with class balance. We saw this all the time in XI, Paladin and Ninja constantly flip-flopped as to which was the better tank. If you have players who are locked into a single class, devs can't brush them off and say "Well, this encounter isn't really designed for that class."


GW2 doesn't use a subjob system, and no one is suggesting that it should. However, when you cap out your character in GW2, you're basically done with it. Might as well delete it and start a new one...really. I liked my character and wanted to keep playing on it, and I wanted to level new classes, but there was just nothing for me to do. And class balance is a moot point in GW2--it's not good. Allowing class changes wouldn't make it worse.

If you haven't played GW2, you can't take what little you've learned about it here and transplant that to what you know about FFXI. They're -completely- different games. Besides which, no feature is good or bad without regard to the system it operates within. That said, all games operate within the system of the player psychology, which is relatively static and does follow certain rules. So while a certain feature or trait of a game can be subjectively good or bad based on a player's opinion, if attempting to make a financially successful game that appeals to a wide audience, there are absolutely features that are objectively good or bad with respect to the players who engage with the system. If 10,000,000 players engage with your system, then it is good. If a new feature reduces the number of players, then that new feature is bad, and has made your system objectively worse.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#46 Feb 17 2013 at 4:21 AM Rating: Decent
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#47 Feb 17 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
Kachi wrote:
None of the FF women I've seen look disproportionate in any way... they all look like totally realistic, healthy body shapes. Based on certain beauty ideals, for certain, but still totally healthy and realistic. I've known many girls with similar figures. Final Fantasy is relatively good about avoiding comic book females in comparison to other games.


I'd say this is true generally but not in XIV.

Screenshot


Arms and waist are way too skinny. They creep me out.

I like my XI hume way better:

Screenshot


Not fat, just healthy looking. I don't dig the anorexic look.


Not to play devil's advocate, but my wife and many girls I've dated are built that way. Not all of them were asian either, one of them was white. I dunno, it looks fine to me.

*your resolution/aspect ratio makes your BST look thicker.
Truth be told, I'll take em either way ^^

Edited, Feb 17th 2013 12:58pm by Transmigration
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#48 Feb 17 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Perhaps they need to implement something like in GTA where the more lazy your character is and what they eat will fatten them up, and the more activity you do, the more fit you get :P
I'm picturing a bunch of fat mages and weavers now...
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#49 Feb 17 2013 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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At last, we'll have our Bacon Mage?
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#50 Feb 17 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
Kachi wrote:
At last, we'll have our Bacon Mage?


That might be ill-timed with the worldwide bacon shortage about to hit us. SE gets enough tough press already.
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#51 Feb 17 2013 at 5:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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