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#27 Feb 21 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I know it's time for a new console, but I feel the ps3 and 360 still have lots to offer. At some point, gameplay needs to make a comeback and they need to back off on graphics and useless features no one uses. The wii in my opinion had the best rpg in the last 10 years with xenoblade, with good graphics for the wii, but inferior to the hd consoles. They concentrated on story and gameplay...that's what drew me in.

The budgets on games are getting out of hand, maybe they need to work on fun factor rather then special effects.




I agree... Better Graphics can help but who cares if the game is crappy or the story. Rpg's are about the story.

One of the things I thought FFXI didn't do well... The missions were blah... Also

Edited, Feb 21st 2013 12:54pm by Nashred
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#28 Feb 21 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nashred wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I know it's time for a new console, but I feel the ps3 and 360 still have lots to offer. At some point, gameplay needs to make a comeback and they need to back off on graphics and useless features no one uses. The wii in my opinion had the best rpg in the last 10 years with xenoblade, with good graphics for the wii, but inferior to the hd consoles. They concentrated on story and gameplay...that's what drew me in.

The budgets on games are getting out of hand, maybe they need to work on fun factor rather then special effects.




I agree... Better Graphics can help but who cares if the game is crappy or the story. Rpg's are about the story.

One of the things I thought FFXI didn't do well... The missions were blah... Also

Edited, Feb 21st 2013 12:54pm by Nashred


I loved the Windurst storyline, and all of the expansions were amazing as well. I wonder what will make you go "Wow!" Smiley: tongue
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#29 Feb 21 2013 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Nashred wrote:
Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
I know it's time for a new console, but I feel the ps3 and 360 still have lots to offer. At some point, gameplay needs to make a comeback and they need to back off on graphics and useless features no one uses. The wii in my opinion had the best rpg in the last 10 years with xenoblade, with good graphics for the wii, but inferior to the hd consoles. They concentrated on story and gameplay...that's what drew me in.

The budgets on games are getting out of hand, maybe they need to work on fun factor rather then special effects.




I agree... Better Graphics can help but who cares if the game is crappy or the story. Rpg's are about the story.

One of the things I thought FFXI didn't do well... The missions were blah... Also

Edited, Feb 21st 2013 12:54pm by Nashred


I loved the Windurst storyline, and all of the expansions were amazing as well. I wonder what will make you go "Wow!" Smiley: tongue



I thought WOG was pretty good...

I don't know if it was not for alakazam or the wiki none of the missions made sense. I mean how would you ever figure out what to do on them?


Edited, Feb 21st 2013 1:13pm by Nashred
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#30 Feb 21 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
The news this morning that existing PSN purchases won't transfer to the PS4 has me out. It was all so good until they said that. I'm not buying that sh*t all over again.



they confirmed PS3 games wont be backwards compatible on ps4 so how would yo play your digital ps3 games on a ps4 anyway if its not BC? also they said you can play PS1 2 and 3 games on PS4 through cloud streaming, so more likley youll have a to pay a monthly netflix like fee for Gaiki and would have access to EVERY ps1, 2 and 3 game son your ps4... i dont see the issue here
#31 Feb 21 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
The news this morning that existing PSN purchases won't transfer to the PS4 has me out. It was all so good until they said that. I'm not buying that sh*t all over again.



they confirmed PS3 games wont be backwards compatible on ps4 so how would yo play your digital ps3 games on a ps4 anyway if its not BC? also they said you can play PS1 2 and 3 games on PS4 through cloud streaming, so more likley youll have a to pay a monthly netflix like fee for Gaiki and would have access to EVERY ps1, 2 and 3 game son your ps4... i dont see the issue here


Of course you don't Smiley: rolleyes
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#32 Feb 21 2013 at 12:31 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
The news this morning that existing PSN purchases won't transfer to the PS4 has me out. It was all so good until they said that. I'm not buying that sh*t all over again.



they confirmed PS3 games wont be backwards compatible on ps4 so how would yo play your digital ps3 games on a ps4 anyway if its not BC? also they said you can play PS1 2 and 3 games on PS4 through cloud streaming, so more likley youll have a to pay a monthly netflix like fee for Gaiki and would have access to EVERY ps1, 2 and 3 game son your ps4... i dont see the issue here


Of course you don't Smiley: rolleyes



youd be paying monthly for games you already owned plus thousands of other games across 3 different consoles that you never owned or played. thats like saying "i dont wanna pay for netflix because it has movies i already own" ok what about the 500+ movies/tv series it has that you DONT own?

Lastly its not like your PS3 is gonna magically cease functioning when PS4 hits.. when you wanna play ps3 games use your ps3...

..

Edited, Feb 21st 2013 12:33pm by DuoMaxwellxx

Edited, Feb 21st 2013 12:34pm by DuoMaxwellxx
#33 Feb 21 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Why not, that's how you reply to posts Smiley: smile
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#34 Feb 21 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Let's just say I don't have enough HDMI ports to handle all the machines in my living room if I got this. I don't understand why digital purchases can't transfer, other than the fact that you're moving from a Power-PC architecture to a x86, which isn't even really an excuse. There are several emulators for both the PS1 and PS2 out there compiled for x86 architecture that perform VERY well, and they had to reverse engineer it all.

I may look at a PS4 again when I know more about the Final Fantasy coming out but I've never been one to buy a console for just one game, and the others announced just aren't that interesting.
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#35 Feb 21 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Let's just say I don't have enough HDMI ports to handle all the machines in my living room if I got this. I don't understand why digital purchases can't transfer, other than the fact that you're moving from a Power-PC architecture to a x86, which isn't even really an excuse. There are several emulators for both the PS1 and PS2 out there compiled for x86 architecture that perform VERY well, and they had to reverse engineer it all.

I may look at a PS4 again when I know more about the Final Fantasy coming out but I've never been one to buy a console for just one game, and the others announced just aren't that interesting.



Well as for the lack of hdmi ports issue.... keep your hdmi cable plugged in your tv (or monitor) and when you wanna switch for ps4 to ps3 you take awhole 2 secs to pull the cable out the back of one console and put it in the other, not that hard at all.

As for lack of emulation... its called keeping costs down.. you know the same reason they removed it from ps3 (along with awhole lot of other things) in the first place
#36 Feb 21 2013 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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No, they removed it from the PS3 because it had an actual PS2 chip. As far as the software emulation they had, it was garbage to begin with. There is no reason a machine using modern architecture can't run emulations like this.
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#37 Feb 21 2013 at 10:08 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
Let's just say I don't have enough HDMI ports to handle all the machines in my living room if I got this. I don't understand why digital purchases can't transfer, other than the fact that you're moving from a Power-PC architecture to a x86, which isn't even really an excuse. There are several emulators for both the PS1 and PS2 out there compiled for x86 architecture that perform VERY well, and they had to reverse engineer it all.

I may look at a PS4 again when I know more about the Final Fantasy coming out but I've never been one to buy a console for just one game, and the others announced just aren't that interesting.



Well as for the lack of hdmi ports issue.... keep your hdmi cable plugged in your tv (or monitor) and when you wanna switch for ps4 to ps3 you take awhole 2 secs to pull the cable out the back of one console and put it in the other, not that hard at all.

As for lack of emulation... its called keeping costs down.. you know the same reason they removed it from ps3 (along with awhole lot of other things) in the first place


Actually, it IS hard. We bought our TV to fit our giant mahogany entertainment center, and measured it down to the milimeter. Changing HDMI ports on the TV requires lifting the TV out of the cubby (which was designed for a projection TV 15 years ago, apparently) and pulling it out of the actual devices is not much easier. One HDMI cable runs to the media center PC. One HDMI cable runs to the DVD player (old school tri-disk thing.) One HDMI cable runs to the PS3. And then there's the cable that we leave hanging out to attach to my husband's laptop when he's too lazy to turn on the media center PC or transfer the file over to it. (Or he feels like working on the big screen for some reason. I don't know and I don't ask.)

Our next console will probably replace the DVD player. After that.... something else has got to go.
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#38 Feb 21 2013 at 11:53 PM Rating: Good
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Hdmi splitters are really good. Some of them even have remotes, and can give you access to 4 more hdmi slots. I get that companies have to consider ease of use for the consumer, but sometimes, it limits people's resourcefulness/intelligence.(No I'm not saying people are stupid, just doesn't help people think outside the box sometimes.) I have 4 screens now(Hdmi ports for days!!!), but in college(rough times) I just had the one monitor so I had 4 devices hooked up to it and just had to hit a button to change the signal on the splitter to give the signal to the monitor. It wasn't any different than changing the input on your TV remote. The splitter does cause you to buy one extra hdmi for the splitter tv connection though. Not enough HDMI ports seems like a user choice, imho.
#39 Feb 22 2013 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
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It's kind of upsetting how people think they know exactly how much money a company should charge for their system, with no actual knowledge of the cost of production.

Yes, the PS3 was a very expensive console when it first came out, but do you honestly believe Sony was charging that much just to try to price gouge its customers? Here's a quote from an old IGN article from 2006:

"It was clear that the cost of producing PS3 units were high for Sony, forcing the company to charge $600 per unit, but now we know exactly how high. Next-gen.biz has offered a full analysis of Sony's expenses. As it turns out, Sony is losing $306.85 for each 20GB system sold and $241.35 for every 60GB system.

The full production cost for a 20GB system is a whopping $805.85, with the 60 GB coming in at $840.35. Chief among the expenses are the RSX graphics chip at $129 and the Blu-Ray optical drive at $125. In contrast, the $400 Xbox 360 only costs $323.30. For the first time in its five-year console publishing history, Microsoft is making a profit on each system sold."

Companies take a lot into consideration when trying to establish a price point for their new system, and sometimes they have to take a loss for the console in order to sell the games. I honestly believe Sony is trying harder to make this system more affordable than the PS3 was, but companies can't afford to just give them away.

Overall, I'm pretty excited for the PS4. I really hope ARR comes out on it.
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#40 Feb 22 2013 at 1:58 AM Rating: Decent
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They were very clear right after release that the PS3 was losing money on each unit produced. Nobody (that I can recall) ever thought they were price-gouging, just that it was too expensive given the library. Which if you ask me, is true of any new console release. If you're not going to launch with a must-have title, expect most people to wait out for a price reduction or two.
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#41 Feb 22 2013 at 2:19 AM Rating: Decent
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It's not the fact that people claimed price gouging directly. It was the the fanboy wars and people wording their statements against Sony's 600 dollar system in a way that made it look like Sony WANTED to price it that high. People actually claimed Sony was so arrogant, that they thought they could charge us 600 and we would just buy it. Every system was a loss. They took a risk on a new medium that won the war (Go bluray!). They gave us extra usb ports/SD ports built in hdmi and wireless along with the emotion engine.(which they all took away lol) I didn't get it at launch b/c 600 was too much for me.

Xbox 360 sold on a profit but a great percentage of their customers have owned multiple 3+ systems thanks to the infamous red ring. Maybe the reason ps3 had less failures and a longer time to hack was the high production cost? I don't know. This generation of consoles was a bit off for me. I loved the games, but there was just something odd. That conference reminded me of Sony when they first introduced the PS1. I still have my certificate from Sony Wonder lol, and pictures of me trying out Tekken 3. Sony will never overthrow the ps2, because xbox clearly stole some of their market but I hope all the consoles find their magic. I Will continue to buy nintendo consoles only for zelda.
#42 Feb 22 2013 at 2:20 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
The news this morning that existing PSN purchases won't transfer to the PS4 has me out. It was all so good until they said that. I'm not buying that sh*t all over again.


Unbelievable. I didn't know that until you posted it. I also missed the part where they said it wouldn't be backwards compatible. Backwards compatibility was the main thing I wanted in the console and now that it's off the table, I'm not sure I'll be interested in purchasing the ps4 until my fatty ps3 dies. Even then, I'd consider getting my ps3 fixed at some shop in town before I purchase a console I can't play any of my games on along with everything I've purchased from the PSN. I'm not going to be forced to purchase a brand new release game just to play my new console. Those two things just made the decision to purchase the next playstation very easy for me. Wow... Just wow...
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#43 Feb 22 2013 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
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GDLYL wrote:
Yea, if xbox has your game types then that's obvious... Anyway, I'm a JRPG head so it's obvious where I'm at. Well since the backwards compatibility is available through cloud storage, meaning we can just install ARR on the HDD the same was I installed FFXI on my 60 gig ps3. If they offer an upgrade for ps4, that would be awesome.


360 had by far a better JRPG library than PS3 and the best JRPG title this generation was on Wii.....


Oh? Which game was that? One of the Tales games?


Xenoblade for the wii, and the Last Story was not bad either.
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#44 Feb 22 2013 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah, Xenoblade slipped under my radar I guess. I never got through the Xenosaga series... I assume they're related in some way?
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#45 Feb 22 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is my annoyance, and let's just forget the HDMI thing, I realize there are hardware solutions in place but you are missing the bigger picture here.

I bought a TON of stuff on the PSN, every FF they sell, quite a few PS Classes, even some original games. Now if I want to keep playing those games, I can a) play them on my Vita (fine for the ones that it can actually play) or b) keep a PS3 in the house for as long as I want to play them. I don't understand why I'm being unreasonable in wanting those purchases to carry over.

I will probably end up owning a PS4 once the library grows up a little bit, but it will be much longer than when I bought my 60gb, fully backwards compatible, launch PS3.
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#46 Feb 22 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Default
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TurboTom wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
Yea, if xbox has your game types then that's obvious... Anyway, I'm a JRPG head so it's obvious where I'm at.

I felt that xbox had more to offer in that department too. I wasn't a huge fan of any console software this gen, but I thought that Tales of Vesperia was a pretty good game.

Also, do people really rate me down for having a different opinion?

Edited, Feb 21st 2013 12:00am by TurboTom

Maybe if you run emulators on your pc. Otherwise ps1 classics alone make xbox a pebble on a 5000 mile highway.
#47 Feb 22 2013 at 7:46 AM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
The news this morning that existing PSN purchases won't transfer to the PS4 has me out. It was all so good until they said that. I'm not buying that sh*t all over again.

I am kind of upset about this too. But think about it. They are the ones offering a service on a new piece of hardware. At least they are showing intent to offer the service over time to us. They are aiming for a complete backlog of every single playstation game ever made, glitch/bug tested, and offering for $5-60.

Sure you can get alot of them absolutely free on pc emulators. But I think of it like supporting a P2P mmo.
Piracy is one of the biggest reasons pc gaming hasn't ousted consoles. That and a unified global spec for game development.
#48 Feb 22 2013 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:

Sure you can get alot of them absolutely free on pc emulators. But I think of it like supporting a P2P mmo.
Piracy is one of the biggest reasons pc gaming hasn't ousted consoles. That and a unified global spec for game development.


Yea but Piracy and Emulation are different things, albeit related. I own Shadowrun for my old Sega Genesis. It's probably my all time favorite game ever. I also have its emulator on PC. It's not piracy, because I own the cartridge. Now, can folks use this to play games they don't own? Sure, but we're talking about titles that are so archaic the developer has no hope of getting more money for it unless they re-release on a platform that's modern. Sounds like that's what Sony was doing, but how many times should you have to pay for the same game, that has ALREADY outlived its life cycle? Doesn't make sense, and I'm definitely with Wint on that one.

As an aside, why do you think that PC isn't a global spec for game development? Have you ever heard of DirectX? Or were you just talking about the fact that PCs can be upgraded with better hardware? Not sure I'd qualify that as a con.
#49 Feb 22 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
sandpark wrote:

Sure you can get alot of them absolutely free on pc emulators. But I think of it like supporting a P2P mmo.
Piracy is one of the biggest reasons pc gaming hasn't ousted consoles. That and a unified global spec for game development.


Yea but Piracy and Emulation are different things, albeit related. I own Shadowrun for my old Sega Genesis. It's probably my all time favorite game ever. I also have its emulator on PC. It's not piracy, because I own the cartridge. Now, can folks use this to play games they don't own? Sure, but we're talking about titles that are so archaic the developer has no hope of getting more money for it unless they re-release on a platform that's modern. Sounds like that's what Sony was doing, but how many times should you have to pay for the same game, that has ALREADY outlived its life cycle? Doesn't make sense, and I'm definitely with Wint on that one.

As an aside, why do you think that PC isn't a global spec for game development? Have you ever heard of DirectX? Or were you just talking about the fact that PCs can be upgraded with better hardware? Not sure I'd qualify that as a con.

What I meant by that is. Many of my noobie pc using friends aren't even sure whether there pc will run games correctly at times. There is not an absolute certainity of compatibility as their is with consoles.

Well if the games outlived their lifecycle we wouldn't be downloading them would we? At least when it is done legally by a game developer, some of those profits should go to them. It might keep their company in the green more during tough times. Also it could give incentive for the developers themselves to preserve our gaming history and provide us access in one streamilined service. We are not forced to pay, it's a service.
#50 Feb 22 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
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sandpark wrote:
As an aside, why do you think that PC isn't a global spec for game development? Have you ever heard of DirectX? Or were you just talking about the fact that PCs can be upgraded with better hardware? Not sure I'd qualify that as a con.


I believe he means it's more efficient to develop for a very minimally changing set of hardware components in game consoles than it is to accommodate the near-infinite configuration possibilities of computer components.

That being said, the comment about it being viewed as a P2P mmo is foolish, as those console games are not mmos, nor are they being 'maintained', they are being 'emulated' because their cashflow potential is zero. The way I view it, is that if a game is not available in any-single-store in an ENTIRE city, it's probably past it's life cycle and not generating any money. There may be some online market potential, but if the disks aren't being printed anymore it's still not generating revenue for the original creators. Now, I could see a game-streaming-network potentially becoming a 'thing' like netflix someday and actually succeeding (a few have already tried and failed), which 'could' generate revenue for the original game developers but that'd almost undoubtedly be at a severely reduced value based on contracts with the service provider (much like netflix does with movie companies). So in this situation we have a large group 'reccognizing' the reduced value of the original titles, but charging consumers pretty largely increased prices for massive gain, while trickling very little back down to the developers, where the "service provider" takes advantage of not one, but two groups: The producers AND the consumers. This is "o.k." because "something is better than nothing".

Here's the problem I have with it. If I purchase a DVD, I have that DVD forever. But if purchase a blue-ray player, I don't expect to get the blu-ray version of that DVD for free.

If I purchase a console game, I have that game forever. But if I purchase a new system I don't expect to get a "hi-rez" version of that game for free.

If I purchase a piece of software, often times I have that license forever. I don't expect free upgrades to the new version every time I buy new computer parts.

HOWEVER:

If I purchase a new PC I can put that piece of software on the new PC and it (usually) continues to work fine.

If I put that DVD inside a blu-ray player that can also play DVDs, my DVD should play fine.

If I put a console game into a system that holds the capability to play exactly the same version of the game I own, that has been 'ported' over, I should have access to that game since I already payed for it, and can insert physical proof of ownership into the system.

So 'NO' this is not like an mmo where you pay for content changes and server maintenance, it's like an mmo that you pay for every time you want to re-install it. Imagine having to buy a new copy of your mmo, and probably start over since there is no way to import your old save data, every time you want to upgrade your computer. Tieing software specifically to individual machines is a prick move, and even most of the LARGE software companies out there today have moved away from this model, even Cisco and Microsoft are completely open to you moving software around, and they are as prick-ish as it gets (though sometimes it might require a phone-call during registration to confirm it's really what you are doing).

I don't believe that we should have to pay for the same product more than once. Content-Additions, Sure, we can weigh weather or not it's worth it, but unless they take EACH game and actually add VALUABLE CONTENT to those products, the service provider (in this case Sony) can go ***** themselves for double-dipping into it's consumers, or in this case, TRIPPLE-DIPPING since a purchase has already been made by many for the DLC version of the game on PS3.

THIS is why people jailbreak systems. THIS is why groups like anonymous go out of their way to give Sony a hard time. I'll be the first to say that own a PS3 and I love it, but I also don't waste money buying the games twice out of pure principle. I'm getting old now, I'll be 30 next month... and when I was in my early teens I was playing PS1 games via ISO's in Emulators on old-*** Macintosh hardware I installed on 'exposed' network shares at school... technology that old, data that old, games and movies that old... we don't want to hear Giant companies like Sony telling us "how hard they are working" to bring those games to us... because quite frankly, there's nothing difficult about it.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 11:09am by FUJILIVES
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#51 Feb 22 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
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There are some games I'll buy twice. My old fat PS2 finally kicked it some time ago (and before that it wouldn't even talk to the shiny expensive new 40" Samsung television.) Now I have the itch to play FFX and I cannot because my PS3 is not backwards compatible.

So I'll buy their HD version when they release it, although I really wish they'd hurry up with that. I caved in and bought XIII to scratch the itch but it's just not the same.

On the other hand, I paid $10 for FFVI on PSN and I'll be damned if I'm going to give them another $10 to play it on PS4 too.
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