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#52 Feb 22 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
There are some games I'll buy twice. My old fat PS2 finally kicked it some time ago (and before that it wouldn't even talk to the shiny expensive new 40" Samsung television.) Now I have the itch to play FFX and I cannot because my PS3 is not backwards compatible.

So I'll buy their HD version when they release it, although I really wish they'd hurry up with that. I caved in and bought XIII to scratch the itch but it's just not the same.

On the other hand, I paid $10 for FFVI on PSN and I'll be damned if I'm going to give them another $10 to play it on PS4 too.


QFMFT.
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#53 Feb 22 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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If you have a lot of consoles or other TV peripherals, really, get a media pre-amp/receiver. You can get ones with a half-dozen HDMI inputs for cheap ($100-$200 range), or more (Okyo has a relatively cheap 8 HDMI port receiver, IIRC), with component inputs (for your Wii) and composite (for your older systems), as well as cable/antenna inputs. If you're serious enough about gaming that you have a lot of systems and are considering a PS4, why are you using your TV's speakers? You don't need 7.1 speakers to use a 7.1 system--use whatever you have or can afford.

Even if you only have a pair of bookshelf speakers (which is what I have right now), it's a massive improvement over TV audio (and my Sony Bravia has decent integrated speakers), and you have the freedom to run an XBox 360, PS3, PS4, separate DVD player over HDMI, Wii U, and next-gen Xbox simultaneously over HDMI, with a Wii, PS2, PS1, Gamecube, Nintendo 64 all plugged in simultaneously through component and composite (and audio devices over optical).

This (which I don't have) is only $240. You can probably find others, used or new, for even cheaper.

That said, yeah, it sucks your PS3 purchases won't transfer. I like simplicity.
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#54 Feb 22 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have a receiver that has 2 HDMI ins, but that was really just an added annoyance, and wasn't intended to be the main issue I wanted to argue Smiley: smile
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#55 Feb 22 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
This is my annoyance, and let's just forget the HDMI thing, I realize there are hardware solutions in place but you are missing the bigger picture here.

I bought a TON of stuff on the PSN, every FF they sell, quite a few PS Classes, even some original games. Now if I want to keep playing those games, I can a) play them on my Vita (fine for the ones that it can actually play) or b) keep a PS3 in the house for as long as I want to play them. I don't understand why I'm being unreasonable in wanting those purchases to carry over.

I will probably end up owning a PS4 once the library grows up a little bit, but it will be much longer than when I bought my 60gb, fully backwards compatible, launch PS3.


I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. Re purchasing things you already own is a no no. I think your grievances are valid, but are solved easily and inexpensively. You brought up the hdmi issue as a counter to someone's solution, "keep your ps3 hooked up and you can play it still." I am guessing here, but it seems like you're fishing for a reason not to get ps4. Like you're tempted to get it, but now you have the reason not to. Now, I'm not saying that because I'm getting it at launch that you must also, but for every issue I see people complain about, I see a simple solution.

My ps1, ps2 and wii are sitting one foot away from their successors. My wii is hooked up using component, ps2 using composite and 360, ps3 and wii u take up 3 of my TV's 4 hdmi slots. My 4th slot has a splitter to share between my fios tv and my pc incase I want to play FFXIV on the 60" and relax. It actually set up so perfectly that I have 2 spare screens that never get any use lol....(From me anyway. When friends come over, I have screens that they all can play MVC3 Street Fighter etc on).

Ok, forget the hdmi thing. Then that brings us back to the, "well if you want to play ps3 games, keep your ps3." No one is expecting you to repurchase them. However, didn't nintendo actually set up their system that way? You have to re buy all your old content for a reduced price (I think it's 1 dollar for games you already own). I'm guessing that there is some cost added to transfer old content over. A cost we are not willing to pay, (600 dollars) but we still want convenience of having it built into consoles. I'm going to keep my ps3 set up, and If I want to play a PS3 game, I'll just turn on my ps3 and play all my purchases. (All the ps1 final fantasy titles I own as well.)

You said you're getting a final Fantasy X Itch. That's ONE game out of the thousands of games in the ps2 library. I also had that problem last year in February. I got the collectors edition of FFXII when it came out but I really wanted to play it last year again. I used my own advice and popped it in my ps2. OMG... it looked like ****!!! Just a huge screen of muddy squares. I laughed, but I was irritated lol. I could either A) Buy a component cable for ps2 or B) Use a ps2 emulator. I set it up on my pc and ran it at 1200p. It was awesome lol. I REALLY wanted to play.

I'm buying a ps4 to play ps4 games. Not ps1 or ps2 games. I'll go as far as to assume that most of us don't even replay to completion. (I know I've quit playing after my itch was scratched.) Now I'm not saying you do that all the time, but I can be almost certain that you've all replayed a game just for nostalgia and quit halfway and was satisfied. Out of all the ps2 games, I only replayed my favorites, Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix, Final Fantasy XII and Marvel vs Capcom 2. I can hardly expect Sony to make that possible for me when there are so many other options available. I love the age we live in now. The technology and the freedom to find ways to realize our desires. That's why It's not a big deal to me, that it's not natively backwards compatible. It's going to be awhile before we're able to emulate the ps3 and 360 though, which is why I suggest holding on to your old systems.

As for you not buying it at launch, it's quite acceptable because they won't have the quality game library that you are comfortable with. The other so called negatives just seem slightly nit picky. When ps2 started this backwards compatibility trend, they set themselves up lol. They're damned either way, with an over priced console, or a backwards compatibility system that doesn't please everyone. Remember when super nintendo came out and all you could think about was playing regular nintendo games on it? :) Didn't think so. That is unreasonable, because the costs of development. It's hard watching some of these complaints because they are ignorant of how things work outside of what they want. I want a reasonably priced machine that does "many cool things." One of those cool things shouldn't be playing OLD games. That was cool when ps2 launched. Not so much anymore. It has been proven, that allowing backwards compatibility increases costs. You're actually paying for the ps3 again technically (or part of it), when you already own one.(which is your complaint o_o) It's just like nintendo wii u's repurchase your old, already owned titles for 1 dollar lol. I hope next xbox keeps the cost down too by not emphasizing on backwards.
#56 Feb 22 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
I have a receiver that has 2 HDMI ins, but that was really just an added annoyance, and wasn't intended to be the main issue I wanted to argue Smiley: smile


Not to be offensive, but I find that a bit dishonest then. You should have argued your main issue. And you proved my point that the hdmi argument was weak. Are we really that lazy now? The only reason I say that is, I remember when people had to get up to change the channel and it was OK. Granted things change, life get's easier. Besides, we have thousands of channels now, we can hardly expect people to get up 1000 times to change it. but the click of a button for an extra hdmi slot?.... Really?.... is that any different that hitting input on your remote?...

It's OK to not get the ps4 when it comes out. I'll argue weak/dishonest arguments that try to justify it :o (Except, "I wont get ps4 because next xbox will be better." I'll leave that one alone lol...)
#57 Feb 22 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:

What I meant by that is. Many of my noobie pc using friends aren't even sure whether there pc will run games correctly at times. There is not an absolute certainity of compatibility as their is with consoles.

Well if the games outlived their lifecycle we wouldn't be downloading them would we? At least when it is done legally by a game developer, some of those profits should go to them. It might keep their company in the green more during tough times. Also it could give incentive for the developers themselves to preserve our gaming history and provide us access in one streamilined service. We are not forced to pay, it's a service.


For the first point, developers aren't making games for specific hardware. They develop using API's that take that out of the equation entirely, so whether or not an individual PC can run a game isn't really relevant to the developer. They design something and release a guideline for minimum specs\recommended specs and that's the end of it. It's always been up to hardware manufacturers to build things within a reasonable set of guidelines so that my Nvidia GTX 550ti is going to be able to run Skyrim, albeit not as efficiently or on as high of settings as someone else's Nvidia GTX 680. The onus is on the builders\PC owners to make sure that the hardware they have meets the minimum requirements. Yes, a console takes a lot of thinking out of our hands as users, but it's been argued ad naseum that as a productivity tool and a practical platform for competitive gameplay, it falls far short of the mark.

That's not to say I think they should go the way of the dodo; quite the contrary, I enjoy a little bit of mindless controller action in New Vegas every now and again. But let's not act like somehow developing for PC has such a massive cost to developers when it's consoles that tend toward proprietary APIs (I'm looking at you, Ps3) and are much more limiting in what can be done with them. Looks like Sony has finally recognized that and will be changing their ways. Super good move on their part.

As to the second part of your post, what I meant by lifecycle was its reasonable expectation to sell a cartridge\disc\whatever. If it's something you can only get at Gamestop, it's outlived its lifecycle and chances are, the console it was designed for is no longer supported either. Now, I didn't say a word about supporting them if they make the effort to port such titles to something like, say, Playstation Network. Awesome idea, and worth another five dollar investment for nostalgia's sake. But how many times should they get to charge for it? That's the question, and that's my problem.

There's two kinds of people in this argument, it seems. Those who would like to just buy what we like and have access to it whenever because the purchase entitled us to download to the console, and those who want everything to be like netflix. There's really no reason the two models can't thrive side-by-side, but forcing multiple purchases when folks have already been building their PSN libraries goes beyond reasonable reimbursement for offering an emulated version of a game. Guys reverse engineer that **** in their basements and release it on the internet for free. It seems to me that Sony would go a lot farther in convincing people to upgrade to a Ps4 if they weren't telling people they would lose the digital content they bought on the Ps3. We're not talking physical discs here, you know.
#58 Feb 22 2013 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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So...when they stop making PS3's, what happens to my purchases if I can't find one used? That's my point, I bought this stuff, but I can't have access to it whenever I want, for how long I want?
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#59 Feb 22 2013 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I can find a used atari on amazon for 45 dollars. I can also find a Magnavox Odyssey 2 for 65 dollars. (I picked the oldest system to prove a point) I wonder if atari/odessey sold more than nes/snes/genisis/saturn/CD/dreamcast/n64/ps1/xbox/ps3/xbox/ps2/wii/game cube. I have found a used version of all the systems listed. All of them are around 50 and at most 65 dollars (obviously except current gen). Now, you're just fishing up more reasons to validate your legitimate complaint, sir. You not being able to find a used one? Highly unlikely. It took me 4 minutes to find all of them, one of them being close to 40 years old...Actually suggesting that you may not be able to find a ps3 one day is dishonest. No one *really* cares about atari anymore and you can still find one, reasonably cheaply for it's age/availability.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against you. My contention is, "If you want to play a game for an old console, take out your old console. My question to you is, "Is what I suggest that unreasonable?" Sony and Microsoft, unlike nintendo lets you re download games once you've purchased. When your Wii broke, you had to go through nintendo to prove that you owned XYZ in order for you to get them again without the nightmare of re purchasing. Games are locked to console. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore as I only owned 4 games for the wii. (2 of them being zelda :D) Replacing your console to get your purchases is a non issue. Immature statements inc: Maybe this isn't your real argument either? Please share with me the bigger picture, or is this just an argument in convenience. If M$/Sony released a 1000 dollar console that did it all including making toast, I'd be all for it b/c of how awesome it is. You'll still find that article that stirs people up by suggesting how appalling it is that it doesn't make coffee too. "What are we supposed to drink while we eat this delicious toast!"

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:16pm by GDLYL

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:17pm by GDLYL
#60 Feb 22 2013 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Wint wrote:
Let's just say I don't have enough HDMI ports to handle all the machines in my living room if I got this. I don't understand why digital purchases can't transfer, other than the fact that you're moving from a Power-PC architecture to a x86, which isn't even really an excuse. There are several emulators for both the PS1 and PS2 out there compiled for x86 architecture that perform VERY well, and they had to reverse engineer it all.

I may look at a PS4 again when I know more about the Final Fantasy coming out but I've never been one to buy a console for just one game, and the others announced just aren't that interesting.



Well as for the lack of hdmi ports issue.... keep your hdmi cable plugged in your tv (or monitor) and when you wanna switch for ps4 to ps3 you take awhole 2 secs to pull the cable out the back of one console and put it in the other, not that hard at all.

As for lack of emulation... its called keeping costs down.. you know the same reason they removed it from ps3 (along with awhole lot of other things) in the first place


Actually, it IS hard. We bought our TV to fit our giant mahogany entertainment center, and measured it down to the milimeter. Changing HDMI ports on the TV requires lifting the TV out of the cubby (which was designed for a projection TV 15 years ago, apparently) and pulling it out of the actual devices is not much easier. One HDMI cable runs to the media center PC. One HDMI cable runs to the DVD player (old school tri-disk thing.) One HDMI cable runs to the PS3. And then there's the cable that we leave hanging out to attach to my husband's laptop when he's too lazy to turn on the media center PC or transfer the file over to it. (Or he feels like working on the big screen for some reason. I don't know and I don't ask.)

Our next console will probably replace the DVD player. After that.... something else has got to go.


you wouldnt be changing HDMI cables out of the TV THAT would probably be a hassle.. youd keep it in the tv put take the OTHER END out of the ps3 and put it into the PS4 and vice versa depending on which console you wanted to play
#61 Feb 22 2013 at 11:20 PM Rating: Default
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GDLYL wrote:
I can find a used atari on amazon for 45 dollars. I can also find a Magnavox Odyssey 2 for 65 dollars. (I picked the oldest system to prove a point) I wonder if atari/odessey sold more than nes/snes/genisis/saturn/CD/dreamcast/n64/ps1/xbox/ps3/xbox/ps2/wii/game cube. I have found a used version of all the systems listed. All of them are around 50 and at most 65 dollars (obviously except current gen). Now, you're just fishing up more reasons to validate your legitimate complaint, sir. You not being able to find a used one? Highly unlikely. It took me 4 minutes to find all of them, one of them being close to 40 years old...Actually suggesting that you may not be able to find a ps3 one day is dishonest. No one *really* cares about atari anymore and you can still find one, reasonably cheaply for it's age/availability.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against you. My contention is, "If you want to play a game for an old console, take out your old console. My question to you is, "Is what I suggest that unreasonable?" Sony and Microsoft, unlike nintendo lets you re download games once you've purchased. When your Wii broke, you had to go through nintendo to prove that you owned XYZ in order for you to get them again without the nightmare of re purchasing. Games are locked to console. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore as I only owned 4 games for the wii. (2 of them being zelda :D) Replacing your console to get your purchases is a non issue. Immature statements inc: Maybe this isn't your real argument either? Please share with me the bigger picture, or is this just an argument in convenience. If M$/Sony released a 1000 dollar console that did it all including making toast, I'd be all for it b/c of how awesome it is. You'll still find that article that stirs people up by suggesting how appalling it is that it doesn't make coffee too. "What are we supposed to drink while we eat this delicious toast!"

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:16pm by GDLYL

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:17pm by GDLYL


God are you an Idiot! There is no legitimate excuse for them not to carry over what you bought in the PSN store, unless they wanna milk you for your money again, and the excuse that games are locked to consoles is the stupidest idea i have read in a while, since the start of this gen, games have not been locked to consoles, that has been one of the main selling points (And money makers) for all 3 consoles, if this was the ps2/xbox era then you might have had a point, but the companies themselves threw the notion that games where locked to X or Y console out of the window, to make lots of moneys.

What believable excuse can they even offer really ?



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#62 Feb 22 2013 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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GDLYL wrote:
I can find a used atari on amazon for 45 dollars. I can also find a Magnavox Odyssey 2 for 65 dollars. (I picked the oldest system to prove a point) I wonder if atari/odessey sold more than nes/snes/genisis/saturn/CD/dreamcast/n64/ps1/xbox/ps3/xbox/ps2/wii/game cube. I have found a used version of all the systems listed. All of them are around 50 and at most 65 dollars (obviously except current gen). Now, you're just fishing up more reasons to validate your legitimate complaint, sir. You not being able to find a used one? Highly unlikely. It took me 4 minutes to find all of them, one of them being close to 40 years old...Actually suggesting that you may not be able to find a ps3 one day is dishonest. No one *really* cares about atari anymore and you can still find one, reasonably cheaply for it's age/availability.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against you. My contention is, "If you want to play a game for an old console, take out your old console. My question to you is, "Is what I suggest that unreasonable?" Sony and Microsoft, unlike nintendo lets you re download games once you've purchased. When your Wii broke, you had to go through nintendo to prove that you owned XYZ in order for you to get them again without the nightmare of re purchasing. Games are locked to console. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore as I only owned 4 games for the wii. (2 of them being zelda :D) Replacing your console to get your purchases is a non issue. Immature statements inc: Maybe this isn't your real argument either? Please share with me the bigger picture, or is this just an argument in convenience. If M$/Sony released a 1000 dollar console that did it all including making toast, I'd be all for it b/c of how awesome it is. You'll still find that article that stirs people up by suggesting how appalling it is that it doesn't make coffee too. "What are we supposed to drink while we eat this delicious toast!"

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:16pm by GDLYL

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:17pm by GDLYL


Yeah I'm not going to respond to this obvious trolling. If you can't see why I expect my purchases on the PSN, the same PSN that the PS4 will be using, shouldn't be transferrable, then I'm sorry, I can't make things clearer. I don't want to have to rely on used hardware to be able to access my old games. They will eventually stop supporting the PS3, probably sooner than later, and I don't think I should have to spend more on a used console to access my games. Games are tied to my PSN account, not my console.

I'm done with this topic. We're going very far afield from the original topic, and we have enough info for XIV that off topic conversations can be taking to the OOT or another forum more specific to the topic this has turned into.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 11:48pm by Wint
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#63 Feb 22 2013 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
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GDLYL wrote:
Xbox 360 sold on a profit but a great percentage of their customers have owned multiple 3+ systems thanks to the infamous red ring. Maybe the reason ps3 had less failures and a longer time to hack was the high production cost? I don't know.

For the record, 360s also sold for a loss although not as big a hit as PS3 took. The only thing RRoD cost me was the two weeks I was without my console. I never paid a dime to have it replaced.

I'm not sure what shocks me more; the fact that people thought their old titles would translate from PS3 to PS4 with ease or the fact that people are upset about having a console taking up a foot of space and having to press their TV/Video button one more time? The only valid beef people could have other than that is not being able to play old games with a more comfortable(looking at least) controller...

I hate to gloat(who the **** am I kidding) but I pointed out ages ago that the timing of PS4 was going to bunch panties and it did. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to find the thread I posted about this from two years ago, pat myself on the back and send a tweet to Tanaka congratulating him on a most epic troll Smiley: glare

FWIW - **** toast. The only way I pay a grand for a PS4 is if it comes with a 40W lightbulb that makes real happycakes, a lifetime supply of frosting packets and a custom stand that looks like this...
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#64 Feb 23 2013 at 1:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
I can find a used atari on amazon for 45 dollars. I can also find a Magnavox Odyssey 2 for 65 dollars. (I picked the oldest system to prove a point) I wonder if atari/odessey sold more than nes/snes/genisis/saturn/CD/dreamcast/n64/ps1/xbox/ps3/xbox/ps2/wii/game cube. I have found a used version of all the systems listed. All of them are around 50 and at most 65 dollars (obviously except current gen). Now, you're just fishing up more reasons to validate your legitimate complaint, sir. You not being able to find a used one? Highly unlikely. It took me 4 minutes to find all of them, one of them being close to 40 years old...Actually suggesting that you may not be able to find a ps3 one day is dishonest. No one *really* cares about atari anymore and you can still find one, reasonably cheaply for it's age/availability.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against you. My contention is, "If you want to play a game for an old console, take out your old console. My question to you is, "Is what I suggest that unreasonable?" Sony and Microsoft, unlike nintendo lets you re download games once you've purchased. When your Wii broke, you had to go through nintendo to prove that you owned XYZ in order for you to get them again without the nightmare of re purchasing. Games are locked to console. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore as I only owned 4 games for the wii. (2 of them being zelda :D) Replacing your console to get your purchases is a non issue. Immature statements inc: Maybe this isn't your real argument either? Please share with me the bigger picture, or is this just an argument in convenience. If M$/Sony released a 1000 dollar console that did it all including making toast, I'd be all for it b/c of how awesome it is. You'll still find that article that stirs people up by suggesting how appalling it is that it doesn't make coffee too. "What are we supposed to drink while we eat this delicious toast!"

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:16pm by GDLYL

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:17pm by GDLYL


God are you an Idiot! There is no legitimate excuse for them not to carry over what you bought in the PSN store, unless they wanna milk you for your money again, and the excuse that games are locked to consoles is the stupidest idea i have read in a while, since the start of this gen, games have not been locked to consoles, that has been one of the main selling points (And money makers) for all 3 consoles, if this was the ps2/xbox era then you might have had a point, but the companies themselves threw the notion that games where locked to X or Y console out of the window, to make lots of moneys.

What believable excuse can they even offer really ?





The only legitimate reason is cost. If people have no issue with an expensive console, I'm sure it'd be ok. I'm an idiot. OK, coming from a person that quoted me, then made up some attack that I never said. Nice job. Read again please. Nintendo was the ONLY console that did that. All your nintendo virtual store goods were locked to the console it was purchased on. I then said that I didn't know if that policy had changed. I didn't keep up to date with nintendo since I already stated I'm only interested in Zelda. You seem very ignorant of a great many things. It makes it hard to formulate a worthwhile opinion. Go and do a search on nintendo virtual store being console locked, and rectify your ignorance. You can then look into the costs companies struggle with to find a balance in making consoles.
#65 Feb 23 2013 at 1:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
I can find a used atari on amazon for 45 dollars. I can also find a Magnavox Odyssey 2 for 65 dollars. (I picked the oldest system to prove a point) I wonder if atari/odessey sold more than nes/snes/genisis/saturn/CD/dreamcast/n64/ps1/xbox/ps3/xbox/ps2/wii/game cube. I have found a used version of all the systems listed. All of them are around 50 and at most 65 dollars (obviously except current gen). Now, you're just fishing up more reasons to validate your legitimate complaint, sir. You not being able to find a used one? Highly unlikely. It took me 4 minutes to find all of them, one of them being close to 40 years old...Actually suggesting that you may not be able to find a ps3 one day is dishonest. No one *really* cares about atari anymore and you can still find one, reasonably cheaply for it's age/availability.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against you. My contention is, "If you want to play a game for an old console, take out your old console. My question to you is, "Is what I suggest that unreasonable?" Sony and Microsoft, unlike nintendo lets you re download games once you've purchased. When your Wii broke, you had to go through nintendo to prove that you owned XYZ in order for you to get them again without the nightmare of re purchasing. Games are locked to console. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore as I only owned 4 games for the wii. (2 of them being zelda :D) Replacing your console to get your purchases is a non issue. Immature statements inc: Maybe this isn't your real argument either? Please share with me the bigger picture, or is this just an argument in convenience. If M$/Sony released a 1000 dollar console that did it all including making toast, I'd be all for it b/c of how awesome it is. You'll still find that article that stirs people up by suggesting how appalling it is that it doesn't make coffee too. "What are we supposed to drink while we eat this delicious toast!"

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:16pm by GDLYL

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:17pm by GDLYL


Yeah I'm not going to respond to this obvious trolling. If you can't see why I expect my purchases on the PSN, the same PSN that the PS4 will be using, shouldn't be transferrable, then I'm sorry, I can't make things clearer. I don't want to have to rely on used hardware to be able to access my old games. They will eventually stop supporting the PS3, probably sooner than later, and I don't think I should have to spend more on a used console to access my games. Games are tied to my PSN account, not my console.

I'm done with this topic. We're going very far afield from the original topic, and we have enough info for XIV that off topic conversations can be taking to the OOT or another forum more specific to the topic this has turned into.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 11:48pm by Wint


If I am a troll, you are an intellectually dishonest coward. All your arguments were addressed by me without me attacking you. You made one excuse after the next. I DO understand where you're coming from. You just feel entitled. I would love for ps4 to do ps3/4 capabilities. The cost however, would be unappealing. If YOU can't grasp that then please, excuse yourself. Where are you getting ps3 losing support soon? Sony supported ps2 for 13 years concluding it's life cycle just last year. Did you forget Sony said they'd support ps3 for 10 years? The same claim they made for ps2. (just in case some clever person tries to assert that just b/c they say it, doesn't mean it's going to happen) You sir are trying to prove your point by claiming falsehoods, and I'm the troll? Everything I typed, I knew, but I took 1 minute to verify it on the internet, because a little more info never hurt.

First you claim that you don't want to re purchase games- No one is asking you to because you can still play them on your ps3.

You claim you need the extra Hdmi space the ps3 would take up- I suggested an hdmi splitter for that problem. You already owned one making this claim a lie. You then asked to forget the hdmi claim.

You then tried to argue that you will not be able to access your purchases if your ps3 breaks and you may not be able to find a used one if sony stops production- I was able to find the first console ever build on amazon for 65 dollars. That console is nearly 40 years old.

We all know that the ps2/3 are hard to code for because sony used their proprietary tech. They said in the ps4 reveal that they are using something more familiar. We've seen the bad ports between the xbox and ps3 over and over. Would it be a safe 'assumption,' that the hardware might prevent that? It's the same PSN, but different hardware. That even if your purchases are tied to our account, the hardware may not be able to run them? I have no idea, and neither do you. You are just typing entitlements ignorantly and using dishonesty to validate your claims. It frightens me that someone with your intellectual ethics is an admin.



Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 2:50am by GDLYL
#66 Feb 23 2013 at 1:42 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
Xbox 360 sold on a profit but a great percentage of their customers have owned multiple 3+ systems thanks to the infamous red ring. Maybe the reason ps3 had less failures and a longer time to hack was the high production cost? I don't know.

For the record, 360s also sold for a loss although not as big a hit as PS3 took. The only thing RRoD cost me was the two weeks I was without my console. I never paid a dime to have it replaced.

I'm not sure what shocks me more; the fact that people thought their old titles would translate from PS3 to PS4 with ease or the fact that people are upset about having a console taking up a foot of space and having to press their TV/Video button one more time? The only valid beef people could have other than that is not being able to play old games with a more comfortable(looking at least) controller...

I hate to gloat(who the **** am I kidding) but I pointed out ages ago that the timing of PS4 was going to bunch panties and it did. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to find the thread I posted about this from two years ago, pat myself on the back and send a tweet to Tanaka congratulating him on a most epic troll Smiley: glare

FWIW - @#%^ toast. The only way I pay a grand for a PS4 is if it comes with a 40W lightbulb that makes real happycakes, a lifetime supply of frosting packets and a custom stand that looks like this...


My apologies. Someone earlier in the thread listed the production costs and stated that the 360 sold on a profit. They were right about the ps3 so I assumed....they were spot on about 360. (I got my 360 late in the cycle) I should have verified.

Meh, I understand the entitlement. I'd love it too if I could play ps3 with ease on ps4. My overall understanding in conjunction with reality however, helps me understand, regardless of my personal feelings.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 2:44am by GDLYL
#67 Feb 23 2013 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmm keyboard acting up.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 2:49am by GDLYL
#68 Feb 23 2013 at 2:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
There is no legitimate excuse for them not to carry over what you bought in the PSN store, unless they wanna milk you for your money again, and the excuse that games are locked to consoles is the stupidest idea i have read in a while, since the start of this gen, games have not been locked to consoles, that has been one of the main selling points (And money makers) for all 3 consoles, if this was the ps2/xbox era then you might have had a point, but the companies themselves threw the notion that games where locked to X or Y console out of the window, to make lots of moneys.

What believable excuse can they even offer really ?

You purchased a game for PS3. Why would you expect it to carry over to every subsequent console Sony releases, especially considering that it's not expressly stated anywhere that it would happen that way?

I'm not trying to incite pitchforks here, but seriously; It's not a far stretch to argue that if you purchase the rights to play a game then it should be available to you on all consoles, regardless of manufacturer. I owned FFXI on PS2, Xbox 360 and PC. I had to purchase them all separately. Should I feel cheated that I essentially paid thrice to access only one content ID? All of the consoles have internet capability and the content I purchased was linked to my SE account. Why wasn't there a free client download so I could play the game I paid for(did I mention I paid 3 times?) on the platform of my choice?

If we're gonna throw salt at Sony, we can add SE and a slew of others(read: any and every developer making content for multiple platforms(read: everyone)) to the list. Just curious, where do people think the line should be drawn?

GDLYL wrote:
My apologies. Someone earlier in the thread listed the production costs and stated that the 360 sold on a profit. They were right about the ps3 so I assumed....they were spot on about 360. (I got my 360 late in the cycle) I should have verified.

Meh, I understand the entitlement. I'd love it too if I could play ps3 with ease on ps4. My overall understanding in conjunction with reality however, helps me understand, regardless of my personal feelings.

No worries. I feel pretty much the same way. It would have been a great idea to have PSN titles carry over to all future consoles, but I would imagine that Sony would calculate the cost of bringing that fantasy (pun intended) to reality into the initial purchase.



Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 3:22am by FilthMcNasty
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#69 Feb 23 2013 at 3:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Having made a few purchases on PSN, the PS4 announcement has me a little raw too. However, if they go the direction of offering the entire PSN library on the PS4 for a reasonable monthly fee, it may be a real devil's bargain. I'm not entirely sure how I'd feel about a deal like that, but the implications are intriguing.
#70 Feb 23 2013 at 5:29 AM Rating: Default
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Ater the train wreck that was PS3 on its release, Sony would be best to wise up and allow its users to use what they bought via PSN on any console that can support the games technical demands.

Does no one else remember how the PS3 game selection was nearly non-existent for the first two years the console was out? If a lack of customer loyalty, and a ridiculous price tag; are all they have to offer in a console, then they can eat it and deal with the massive loss that they will once again be putting upon themselves.

I bought Legend of Dragoon on PSN for 5 bucks. It's not Legend of Dragoon for the PS3, it's the PlayStation game that had its data ported to the PlayStation 3. Just like they could port the data to the PlayStation 4. But it's Sony, so I won't hold my breath. They have no loyalties.

How's that DCUniverse working out for y'all?

Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 5:31am by Raiendel
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#71 Feb 23 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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GDLYL wrote:
Wint wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
I can find a used atari on amazon for 45 dollars. I can also find a Magnavox Odyssey 2 for 65 dollars. (I picked the oldest system to prove a point) I wonder if atari/odessey sold more than nes/snes/genisis/saturn/CD/dreamcast/n64/ps1/xbox/ps3/xbox/ps2/wii/game cube. I have found a used version of all the systems listed. All of them are around 50 and at most 65 dollars (obviously except current gen). Now, you're just fishing up more reasons to validate your legitimate complaint, sir. You not being able to find a used one? Highly unlikely. It took me 4 minutes to find all of them, one of them being close to 40 years old...Actually suggesting that you may not be able to find a ps3 one day is dishonest. No one *really* cares about atari anymore and you can still find one, reasonably cheaply for it's age/availability.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against you. My contention is, "If you want to play a game for an old console, take out your old console. My question to you is, "Is what I suggest that unreasonable?" Sony and Microsoft, unlike nintendo lets you re download games once you've purchased. When your Wii broke, you had to go through nintendo to prove that you owned XYZ in order for you to get them again without the nightmare of re purchasing. Games are locked to console. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore as I only owned 4 games for the wii. (2 of them being zelda :D) Replacing your console to get your purchases is a non issue. Immature statements inc: Maybe this isn't your real argument either? Please share with me the bigger picture, or is this just an argument in convenience. If M$/Sony released a 1000 dollar console that did it all including making toast, I'd be all for it b/c of how awesome it is. You'll still find that article that stirs people up by suggesting how appalling it is that it doesn't make coffee too. "What are we supposed to drink while we eat this delicious toast!"

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:16pm by GDLYL

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:17pm by GDLYL


Yeah I'm not going to respond to this obvious trolling. If you can't see why I expect my purchases on the PSN, the same PSN that the PS4 will be using, shouldn't be transferrable, then I'm sorry, I can't make things clearer. I don't want to have to rely on used hardware to be able to access my old games. They will eventually stop supporting the PS3, probably sooner than later, and I don't think I should have to spend more on a used console to access my games. Games are tied to my PSN account, not my console.

I'm done with this topic. We're going very far afield from the original topic, and we have enough info for XIV that off topic conversations can be taking to the OOT or another forum more specific to the topic this has turned into.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 11:48pm by Wint


If I am a troll, you are an intellectually dishonest coward. All your arguments were addressed by me without me attacking you. You made one excuse after the next. I DO understand where you're coming from. You just feel entitled. I would love for ps4 to do ps3/4 capabilities. The cost however, would be unappealing. If YOU can't grasp that then please, excuse yourself. Where are you getting ps3 losing support soon? Sony supported ps2 for 13 years concluding it's life cycle just last year. Did you forget Sony said they'd support ps3 for 10 years? The same claim they made for ps2. (just in case some clever person tries to assert that just b/c they say it, doesn't mean it's going to happen) You sir are trying to prove your point by claiming falsehoods, and I'm the troll? Everything I typed, I knew, but I took 1 minute to verify it on the internet, because a little more info never hurt.

First you claim that you don't want to re purchase games- No one is asking you to because you can still play them on your ps3.

You claim you need the extra Hdmi space the ps3 would take up- I suggested an hdmi splitter for that problem. You already owned one making this claim a lie. You then asked to forget the hdmi claim.

You then tried to argue that you will not be able to access your purchases if your ps3 breaks and you may not be able to find a used one if sony stops production- I was able to find the first console ever build on amazon for 65 dollars. That console is nearly 40 years old.

We all know that the ps2/3 are hard to code for because sony used their proprietary tech. They said in the ps4 reveal that they are using something more familiar. We've seen the bad ports between the xbox and ps3 over and over. Would it be a safe 'assumption,' that the hardware might prevent that? It's the same PSN, but different hardware. That even if your purchases are tied to our account, the hardware may not be able to run them? I have no idea, and neither do you. You are just typing entitlements ignorantly and using dishonesty to validate your claims. It frightens me that someone with your intellectual ethics is an admin.



Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 2:50am by GDLYL


Trolling was a bit strong of a wording, I apologize if I offended you.

I still stand by my original "entitlement" that I should be able to play this software on the PS4. They have it working on the PS3 and the Vita, why can't I have it on the PS4 as well? It honestly makes me leery of buying anything else from them digitally, I did so assuming that because it was in a digital format it would be more portable to new platforms than physical copies. This is my fault for making that assumption, especially in light of their dropped support for the PS2 in later versions of the PS3. It's disappointing because everything I've heard about the PS4 is very encouraging, I'm also excited there is a new Final Fantasy in the works for the new platform but I don't have enough disposable income to buy a console for a single game. My existing purchase history would be enough to convince me to buy a PS4 knowing that it could replace my PS3 in my living room rather than supplement it. I think they're making a mistake here, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
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#72 Feb 23 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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It's not the PS3 games I bought from PSN I'm upset about. It's the PS1 and PS2 re-releases I bought on PSN.

All I'm asking is that if they re-re-release those on PSN for PS4, that they don't expect me to plunk down another $10 for it.

PS3 "exclusive" stuff, such as Journey, is a different story. Since that'll have to be re-coded for PS4 (and not just crunched through an emulater/converter on the back end) I'll probably pay money for a re-release.
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#73 Feb 23 2013 at 2:26 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
Wint wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
I can find a used atari on amazon for 45 dollars. I can also find a Magnavox Odyssey 2 for 65 dollars. (I picked the oldest system to prove a point) I wonder if atari/odessey sold more than nes/snes/genisis/saturn/CD/dreamcast/n64/ps1/xbox/ps3/xbox/ps2/wii/game cube. I have found a used version of all the systems listed. All of them are around 50 and at most 65 dollars (obviously except current gen). Now, you're just fishing up more reasons to validate your legitimate complaint, sir. You not being able to find a used one? Highly unlikely. It took me 4 minutes to find all of them, one of them being close to 40 years old...Actually suggesting that you may not be able to find a ps3 one day is dishonest. No one *really* cares about atari anymore and you can still find one, reasonably cheaply for it's age/availability.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against you. My contention is, "If you want to play a game for an old console, take out your old console. My question to you is, "Is what I suggest that unreasonable?" Sony and Microsoft, unlike nintendo lets you re download games once you've purchased. When your Wii broke, you had to go through nintendo to prove that you owned XYZ in order for you to get them again without the nightmare of re purchasing. Games are locked to console. I'm not sure if it's an issue anymore as I only owned 4 games for the wii. (2 of them being zelda :D) Replacing your console to get your purchases is a non issue. Immature statements inc: Maybe this isn't your real argument either? Please share with me the bigger picture, or is this just an argument in convenience. If M$/Sony released a 1000 dollar console that did it all including making toast, I'd be all for it b/c of how awesome it is. You'll still find that article that stirs people up by suggesting how appalling it is that it doesn't make coffee too. "What are we supposed to drink while we eat this delicious toast!"

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:16pm by GDLYL

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 4:17pm by GDLYL


Yeah I'm not going to respond to this obvious trolling. If you can't see why I expect my purchases on the PSN, the same PSN that the PS4 will be using, shouldn't be transferrable, then I'm sorry, I can't make things clearer. I don't want to have to rely on used hardware to be able to access my old games. They will eventually stop supporting the PS3, probably sooner than later, and I don't think I should have to spend more on a used console to access my games. Games are tied to my PSN account, not my console.

I'm done with this topic. We're going very far afield from the original topic, and we have enough info for XIV that off topic conversations can be taking to the OOT or another forum more specific to the topic this has turned into.

Edited, Feb 22nd 2013 11:48pm by Wint


If I am a troll, you are an intellectually dishonest coward. All your arguments were addressed by me without me attacking you. You made one excuse after the next. I DO understand where you're coming from. You just feel entitled. I would love for ps4 to do ps3/4 capabilities. The cost however, would be unappealing. If YOU can't grasp that then please, excuse yourself. Where are you getting ps3 losing support soon? Sony supported ps2 for 13 years concluding it's life cycle just last year. Did you forget Sony said they'd support ps3 for 10 years? The same claim they made for ps2. (just in case some clever person tries to assert that just b/c they say it, doesn't mean it's going to happen) You sir are trying to prove your point by claiming falsehoods, and I'm the troll? Everything I typed, I knew, but I took 1 minute to verify it on the internet, because a little more info never hurt.

First you claim that you don't want to re purchase games- No one is asking you to because you can still play them on your ps3.

You claim you need the extra Hdmi space the ps3 would take up- I suggested an hdmi splitter for that problem. You already owned one making this claim a lie. You then asked to forget the hdmi claim.

You then tried to argue that you will not be able to access your purchases if your ps3 breaks and you may not be able to find a used one if sony stops production- I was able to find the first console ever build on amazon for 65 dollars. That console is nearly 40 years old.

We all know that the ps2/3 are hard to code for because sony used their proprietary tech. They said in the ps4 reveal that they are using something more familiar. We've seen the bad ports between the xbox and ps3 over and over. Would it be a safe 'assumption,' that the hardware might prevent that? It's the same PSN, but different hardware. That even if your purchases are tied to our account, the hardware may not be able to run them? I have no idea, and neither do you. You are just typing entitlements ignorantly and using dishonesty to validate your claims. It frightens me that someone with your intellectual ethics is an admin.



Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 2:50am by GDLYL


Trolling was a bit strong of a wording, I apologize if I offended you.

I still stand by my original "entitlement" that I should be able to play this software on the PS4. They have it working on the PS3 and the Vita, why can't I have it on the PS4 as well? It honestly makes me leery of buying anything else from them digitally, I did so assuming that because it was in a digital format it would be more portable to new platforms than physical copies. This is my fault for making that assumption, especially in light of their dropped support for the PS2 in later versions of the PS3. It's disappointing because everything I've heard about the PS4 is very encouraging, I'm also excited there is a new Final Fantasy in the works for the new platform but I don't have enough disposable income to buy a console for a single game. My existing purchase history would be enough to convince me to buy a PS4 knowing that it could replace my PS3 in my living room rather than supplement it. I think they're making a mistake here, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.


Apology accepted. I also apologize for my harsh words. Water under the bridge.

I truly do understand how you feel, and to some degree I agree wholeheartedly with you. I have a penchant of letting my rational side take over, which doesn't necessarily make me 'right,' just understanding,, regardless of how I feel. The part about the ps4 replacing your ps3 I will concede to because it's a very reasonable expectation. I was also excited about the trolling S-E did lol. (Please be versus XIII). To be honest with you, they should just make another expensive console and just add everything. That's just me though. I'd like my cake and I'll probably pay to eat it too. Then again 550 isn't that much cheaper than last gen lol....

As other's have suggested, I hope the gaikai streaming turns out just as incredible as it sounded.

Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 3:59pm by GDLYL
#74 Feb 24 2013 at 5:53 PM Rating: Default
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
There is no legitimate excuse for them not to carry over what you bought in the PSN store, unless they wanna milk you for your money again, and the excuse that games are locked to consoles is the stupidest idea i have read in a while, since the start of this gen, games have not been locked to consoles, that has been one of the main selling points (And money makers) for all 3 consoles, if this was the ps2/xbox era then you might have had a point, but the companies themselves threw the notion that games where locked to X or Y console out of the window, to make lots of moneys.

What believable excuse can they even offer really ?

You purchased a game for PS3. Why would you expect it to carry over to every subsequent console Sony releases, especially considering that it's not expressly stated anywhere that it would happen that way?

I'm not trying to incite pitchforks here, but seriously; It's not a far stretch to argue that if you purchase the rights to play a game then it should be available to you on all consoles, regardless of manufacturer. I owned FFXI on PS2, Xbox 360 and PC. I had to purchase them all separately. Should I feel cheated that I essentially paid thrice to access only one content ID? All of the consoles have internet capability and the content I purchased was linked to my SE account. Why wasn't there a free client download so I could play the game I paid for(did I mention I paid 3 times?) on the platform of my choice?

If we're gonna throw salt at Sony, we can add SE and a slew of others(read: any and every developer making content for multiple platforms(read: everyone)) to the list. Just curious, where do people think the line should be drawn?

GDLYL wrote:
My apologies. Someone earlier in the thread listed the production costs and stated that the 360 sold on a profit. They were right about the ps3 so I assumed....they were spot on about 360. (I got my 360 late in the cycle) I should have verified.

Meh, I understand the entitlement. I'd love it too if I could play ps3 with ease on ps4. My overall understanding in conjunction with reality however, helps me understand, regardless of my personal feelings.

No worries. I feel pretty much the same way. It would have been a great idea to have PSN titles carry over to all future consoles, but I would imagine that Sony would calculate the cost of bringing that fantasy (pun intended) to reality into the initial purchase.



Edited, Feb 23rd 2013 3:22am by FilthMcNasty


Titles on the ps3 are bound to your account, not your console, if i buy xenogears from the PSN store, is bound to my PSN account, not to the console. There is no real excuse to not allow us to have access to titles we already purchased on the PSN. Now i am not talking about ps3 titles for i really dont care about them, most of them where garbage anyways, but my PS1-2 titles that i bought should be more than able to transfer to my PS4, since it will also be using the PSN. Which is the Playstation Network not the PS3 exclusive network.

Oh and a for why you had to buy Xi on all those consoles..... That is apples to oranges. There was no SE digital store nor was there a PSN, nor was it the norm nor the capability back then really to do such things on consoles.
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#75 Feb 24 2013 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
There is no real excuse to not allow us to have access to titles we already purchased on the PSN. Now i am not talking about ps3 titles for i really dont care about them, most of them where garbage anyways, but my PS1-2 titles that i bought should be more than able to transfer to my PS4, since it will also be using the PSN. Which is the Playstation Network not the PS3 exclusive network.

The issue here is that these games were adapted to run on PS3 hardware. Whether or not your purchase was connected to your PSN account makes no difference. Making the necessary changes to allow the games to run on PS4 is going to take time and money. Do you really expect Sony or the developers of these games to do that without expecting something in return?

When you put in place a system that allows you to develop, produce and distribute games and content minus the costs normally associated with production (box, manual and disc) as well as shipping physical product, you can afford to sell your console for less than the cost of production. It's pretty much the same idea behind games being free to play. You give the client away or sacrifice subscriber income on the basis that more people will be exposed to your product and the money comes on the back end through DLC, customized options, ect ect.

Ostia wrote:
Oh and a for why you had to buy Xi on all those consoles..... That is apples to oranges. There was no SE digital store nor was there a PSN, nor was it the norm nor the capability back then really to do such things on consoles.

It isn't apples to oranges. I can't tell if you're seriously that ignorant or if you're trolling yourself. The argument you just made for PSN works almost perfectly in my example, but not yours...

If I went right now and installed FFXI: RotZ on any of the platforms(although I think 360 came with later expansion) it would update the client to the most current expansion out regardless of whether or not I used that specific disc or bundle to install it. For that reason, all they would need to do is allow you to download the client if you currently have an active account. If you have an active account then it's obvious you at least purchased RotZ and your account status dictates the expansion content you are allowed access to.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#76 Feb 24 2013 at 9:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually, not true. The PS2 and Xbox versions require a disk for the first four expansions, regardless of whether you have them active on the account or not. So if you have the full thing from PC, you have to acquire the 4 disks or an ultimate collection that includes the disks to be able to play it on Xbox. Next expansion will not be available for PS2 in North America in any way, shape, or form.

It works in reverse, though. If you had purchased the Xbox version and wanted to move to PC, you could get a digital copy of the game on PC without any problems and not have to buy it again.
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#77 Feb 24 2013 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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A legal copy?
#78 Feb 24 2013 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
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At this point there is no "legal" or "illegal" for PC in FFXI. If you're paying the subscription, you have a "legal" cop and that's that. If you have not paid for access to the expansions, they will be grayed out on the start screen even if the content is installed, so SE doesn't really care.

I keep a link to the official SE downloader in my public drop box and hand it off to people who need clean copies. Once the new expansion comes out I'll update it with whatever the latest version is.

On that note, many folks will purchase used PS2 or Xbox disks but purchase the PC version for the registration codes. SE doesn't mind that at all.

Edited, Feb 24th 2013 11:52pm by catwho
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I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#79 Feb 24 2013 at 11:05 PM Rating: Good
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Sounds good to me!
#80 Feb 24 2013 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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catwho wrote:
Actually, not true. The PS2 and Xbox versions require a disk for the first four expansions, regardless of whether you have them active on the account or not. So if you have the full thing from PC, you have to acquire the 4 disks or an ultimate collection that includes the disks to be able to play it on Xbox. Next expansion will not be available for PS2 in North America in any way, shape, or form.

It works in reverse, though. If you had purchased the Xbox version and wanted to move to PC, you could get a digital copy of the game on PC without any problems and not have to buy it again.


Thanks for catching that. I'd gone from PS2 > PC > 360 and back to PC which is probably why I got it mixed up.

I was just trying to show that SE could have done something like allowing people to download the client and expansions through POL viewer. I guess it wasn't the case up through the mini-expansions, but there isn't much of a reason why they couldn't have made it available.
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Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#81 Feb 25 2013 at 3:16 AM Rating: Default
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Just wondering but has anyone seen the garbage that Sony and Microsoft are trying to cram down consumer throats with the next gen of consoles? Always online, patents for facial recognition login software, one copy of a game per account per system with no resale possibility? With these kind of draconian stipulations on my hypothetical property I really don't see myself buying into the next gen. I am glad I got into PC gaming when I did. Even if a lot of these things are already present in PC gaming at least I expected it and can buy games cheaper if I want to wait. I can't imagine a world where I'm not able go to the video store and rent that random game that wasn't worth the $60 pricetag. You won't be able to borrow a friend's game or even let your sibling/significant other play the game on their account on the same system. With the money you would spend on those new systems you could most likely buy a great new gaming PC that can do stuff other stuff too >.>...
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#82 Feb 25 2013 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Just an FYI, but having content that was purchased via download locked to the account that purchased it was already in place(at least on 360). I'm not sure why that would come as a shock to people.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#83 Feb 25 2013 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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If I'm not mistaken, Sony said that games would not be console locked for the ps4. You will be able to play used games. Or are people still carrying around that rumor. Even DJ Housen who was commentating Winter Brawl 7 said that on the stream. What's the point on forming an opinion, if your information is wrong? I mean if you're a PC gamer, then by all means be one. Spreading misinformation to validate your choice is bad, and you should feel bad.
#84 Feb 25 2013 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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He's talking about your PSN account or your Xbox gamertag. If you login to your account and purchase a game, you will only be able to play that game while logged into the account that purchased it. I don't think he was talking about console lock, but account lock.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#85 Feb 25 2013 at 4:45 AM Rating: Decent
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You can sign in multiple accounts on one console though, while earning trophies/achievements etc. Should be ok, I think.

DamienSScott wrote:
Just wondering but has anyone seen the garbage that Sony and Microsoft are trying to cram down consumer throats with the next gen of consoles? Always online, patents for facial recognition login software, one copy of a game per account per system with no resale possibility? With these kind of draconian stipulations on my hypothetical property I really don't see myself buying into the next gen. I am glad I got into PC gaming when I did. Even if a lot of these things are already present in PC gaming at least I expected it and can buy games cheaper if I want to wait. I can't imagine a world where I'm not able go to the video store and rent that random game that wasn't worth the $60 pricetag. You won't be able to borrow a friend's game or even let your sibling/significant other play the game on their account on the same system. With the money you would spend on those new systems you could most likely buy a great new gaming PC that can do stuff other stuff too >.>...


Are you referring to games purchased digitally? Still not too savvy with the 360, but I know on ps3, as long as your user account is on a system you can play games on the HDD on a system that isn't yours.(Up to 5 separate console downloads) So the account locked games have been here for a bit. (It even tells you who owns it under info) I think he was talking about the rumor about the inability to play used games. That when you put in a copy, it binds to your account and system. That rumor has been posted everywhere for the past few months. Since Sony Officially said you can play used games, people can rest easy.

Edited, Feb 25th 2013 5:49am by GDLYL
#86 Feb 25 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
Just wondering but has anyone seen the garbage that Sony and Microsoft are trying to cram down consumer throats with the next gen of consoles? Always online, patents for facial recognition login software, one copy of a game per account per system with no resale possibility? With these kind of draconian stipulations on my hypothetical property I really don't see myself buying into the next gen. I am glad I got into PC gaming when I did. Even if a lot of these things are already present in PC gaming at least I expected it and can buy games cheaper if I want to wait. I can't imagine a world where I'm not able go to the video store and rent that random game that wasn't worth the $60 pricetag. You won't be able to borrow a friend's game or even let your sibling/significant other play the game on their account on the same system. With the money you would spend on those new systems you could most likely buy a great new gaming PC that can do stuff other stuff too >.>...


Online only was confirmed to be a rumor only by Kaz Hirai for the PS4. Most of those ??? are still up in the air or are rumored for the Xbox but frankly, if Sony is allowing used games (also confirmed by Sony) then it would be a huge blow against Microsoft if they for some reason decided not to allow them.

I found this to be an interesting read on how Microsoft really missed the ball with the XBox Live Marketplace.

Microsoft's $5 Problem
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#87 Feb 25 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Good
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That was a good read Smiley: eekSmiley: eek
#88 Feb 25 2013 at 7:13 PM Rating: Good
GDLYL wrote:
That was a good read Smiley: eekSmiley: eek


Yes, it was a little interesting. I also lol'd at the thought of a FF or Assassin's Creed game going for $5 digital download.

I am 26, but I feel that I fall into the "old-school" category of gaming. I don't really like all this mobile gaming. Yes, I have some games from the App Store on my iPad, but those are strictly to kill time between turns when my friends and I run Dresden at my buddy's place, or when I know I'll be in the restroom for more than 30 seconds. If I'm at home and I want to play a game I'm on my PC / PS3 / 360. I like in-depth gaming with a real story, a real progression system, a real feeling of adventure. I don't like games that let me play, but after 20 turns I have to either wait for points to regenerate every 3 minutes or buy points back with real cash. I sit down to a game to immerse myself outside of the hum-drum of the day, not to sit down and plan what I will do to maximize the 30 minutes I'm about to spend on the tablet because I only have so many points to use.

I grew up doing chores and working in the neighborhood to pay $50~ for Legend of Legaia and FFVII, not asking my parents to drop $1.99 on the iPad. I was that kid that the companies were looking to breed into a life-time gamer. They succeeded too, because they made good games that made me want to work outdoors for 6 weeks so that I could afford it. I don't feel like the mobile market at the moment is doing this. The games are readily available, cheap (you can get free versions with advertisements for all but the best mobile games), and shallow for the most part.

Think about it... When a lot of us were kids, if we got a new game that we liked, we played the #$%^ out of it for weeks and it was the greatest game ever. Then guess what, there was another awesome game just a few months later! How many kids do you think are playing Words With Friends, All the Bravest, World of Goo, **** even Infinity Blade and are thinking "Wow, that was awesome. I am totally waiting with baited breath for what comes next"? I don't think the ratio is as high anymore. The "greats" are dwindling. Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Gran Tourismo, Xeno-anything for the most part, even Final Fantasy are all degrading, but what is replacing them? Call of Duty and Halo, maybe Assassin's Creed (which is on its way out also, imo. I can't even finish the newest one). Then all the mobile games. /smh /endrant
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#89 Feb 25 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Decent
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At the risk of dating myself, I never looked forward to getting games for consoles as a kid because they didn't really exist or they were too expensive. I was more concerned with getting quarters for the arcade so I could play Galaga, Frogger, Karate Champ or Elevator Action.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#90 Feb 25 2013 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
FilthMcNasty wrote:
At the risk of dating myself, I never looked forward to getting games for consoles as a kid because they didn't really exist or they were too expensive. I was more concerned with getting quarters for the arcade so I could play Galaga, Frogger, Karate Champ or Elevator Action.


That situation still kind of helps to show my point though. One of the big "draws" of the mobile market is social gaming. It doesn't get more social then gettin the guys together to go down to the local 'cade to drop $5.00 on Galaga and see who gets bragging rights for the week. Knowing that you were (insert 3 initials here) with the all-time high score on Space Invaders really felt like something. How do you think it feels to drop $40 or more and have the biggest farm in farmville?

On the topic of dating yourself, that could have been as soon as 5 years before I was born. It aint no thang.

Edited, Feb 25th 2013 8:35pm by IKickYoDog
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Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

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Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#91 Feb 26 2013 at 1:06 AM Rating: Decent
Please come to the ps4 PLEEEAAASSSEEE. I'll buy it for ps3 and ps4.
#92 Feb 26 2013 at 7:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sure it will if there is enough demand, and of course if the game thrives as we all hope it will (naysayers aside).
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