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#27 Feb 21 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Nashred wrote:
It looks really nice but what was wrong with the way ffxi did macros...


Macros will be in ARR. And you can assign them to hotbar action slots.


Ah ok I didn't see them in the video.. That is really cool then.




Edited, Feb 21st 2013 3:10pm by Nashred
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#28 Feb 21 2013 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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I support this thread hai!
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#29 Feb 21 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Default
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PS3 currently seems to lag alot but the PC looks nice. Ul'dah and surrounding areas are amazing.
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#30 Feb 21 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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I think it's a really good controller design. The controller video is my favorite piece of FFXIV ARR media so far, really feels like it actually shows 'gameplay' more than a "BTW we have THIS!" video.

However... I also wish (and maybe this will be possible with addons later?) they would have just taken it a step further and provided four controller macro sets on screen at all times, using L1, L2, R1, and R2 to choose, then using the select-button to pull up the "select more sets" menu. Something about having 32 macros available at all times seems more usable to me than 16 + swaps, especially when considering PvP where you find yourself often using every single ability available to absolutely maximize your potential for surviving the constant influx of high-pressure situations.

Going to get a little ranty here, apologize, but I would like to explain what I'm getting at in a way that might require a breakdown for visualization to understand 'why' I would like this option.

For starters, I use home-row (esdf) key positions instead of the more common wasd combo, because it functions nearly the same and keeps your hands where they 'should' be, making the transition from 'playing' to 'typing' seemless. It also opens up another couple keys on the "pinky" side giving more flexibility when key-binding on PC. Since I generally use ESDF to move, in an MMO environment, take WoW for example, I find myself binding 4RFC, 5TGV, Then Shift-4RFC, Shift-5TGV, to keys I frequently use (we'll call these my tier-1 keys). Keys 123, QWA, 6YHB, Shift-6YHB to keys I need to use somewhat-frequently (tier-2 keys), and other misc keys around the keyboard like zxc, num-pad, brackets, etc for other things. This results in about 16 Tier-1 keybinds, 14 Tier-2 keybinds, and roughly 14 Tier-3 keybinds. When I combine that with the mouse, it adds in two side buttons, a primary click, a right click, a middle click, and scroll-up/scroll-down, providing another 14 bindable functions when combined with Shift modifiers (realistically 8, since the game's primary click, scroll up & down functions are included in the default action-set of a controller, so we can factor them out since I won't bind them to something-else). This means at any-given time I have roughly ~34 "immediate" actions when combining tier-1 and tier-2 bindings I use, while offering an additional 14+ tier-3 bindings that, while I don't use as often are still easy enough to utilize.

I feel that number (34) is pretty close to a 'magic' number, and at least 'around' 34 is realistically what most long-term users will expect to be able to use from a macro system in an 'immediate' sense while inside an MMO, especially as an MMO grows over the years and adds more functionality. FFXI was probably the exception to that rule, since we loved FFXI despite it being a slow/cumbersome menu system. I knew many very good people who navigated the menu in the 'classic' FF style and never used macros at all. In my later years, I even found myself doing a variation of this when windower's spellcast became available.

Out of curiosity, I looked how many WoW action bar macro-slots are available with 'just' the bottom macro sets, since it can get crazy if you figure in the side actionbars, pet-actionbars, and action-bar addons (like bartender) where you can add even more. The number seems to be 36 (3 sets of 12). I seriously think if we had four controller-sets on screen, providing 32 macros, as well as options like using select to change to other macro-sets, that playing with a controller would be something I could be pursuaded to use, and it could potentially even convince me to change over completely from a long-time keyboard-and-mouse user. Anyhow, here's hoping for the option.

Oh, and one thing I haven't seen mentioned... one feature I would LOVE modern day MMOs to offer... is some kind of a mumble/teamspeak/ventrillo integration option. I'm paying a monthly fee, it'd be absolutely AWESOME if a standard voice server was provided with that fee. I'm not talking "build voip options into the game" (though an overlay option of some kind would be cool), since I've yet to see that done properly... but rather, a straight up private voice-server option that we could use our standard voice software (I.E. mumble clients) to connect to from our PCs, but was also usable with PS3 while in game. Having a controller presents a rather MAJOR setback for communication in a heavily communication-dependent game type... voice is about the only alternative I can see potentially resolving the issue while adding a 'hook' to keep players tuned in for years to come. If you play FFXI with nothing but a controller... it gets a lot harder to build long-term bonds with people since your communication will be so limited. So also... here's hoping for voice that is compatible with modern and free multi-platform clients... I mean ****, i can run mumble on my cell phone, there really doesn't seem to be a logical reason for not being able to provide it to the masses.


Edited, Feb 21st 2013 4:29pm by FUJILIVES
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#31 Feb 21 2013 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just watched this one again and still DEM FEELS

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#32 Feb 21 2013 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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Just to follow up on the macro system, I'd like to see an option to do this:

FFXIV-32Macro.jpg
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#33 Feb 21 2013 at 4:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Did anyone happen to notice if in Limsa Lominsa there was still that really obvious texture "draw-in" circle that surrounded your character and rendered things as you moved around? It was hard to tell from the video.
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#34 Feb 21 2013 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Did anyone happen to notice if in Limsa Lominsa there was still that really obvious texture "draw-in" circle that surrounded your character and rendered things as you moved around? It was hard to tell from the video.

You mean those horrible texture pops on the pillars the city was standing on and the surrounding cliffs even at highest settings?
I sincerely hope those are a thing of the past. The two textures were not even matched for brightness...
I doubt they let that slip past QC this time.
#35 Feb 21 2013 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Re: Controller
Curious to see how they implement NPC-only targeting, as that tends to be more important for many classes. I would have thought they'd simply make it so that Left and Right cycled through NPC/monsters. This seems to make much more sense, unless I'm overlooking something.

I am glad that they're finally using button combos to activate abilities. I was begging for that in FFXI for years... it would have made controller gameplay so much more fluid than sliding around through the hotbars. Hopefully they'll expand on that in time to allow swapping out macro sets with button presses. e.g., L1+L2, or L2+R2, toggles to a different macro set. (Oh, and now as I get to the end of the video, I see that they do have an easys way to toggle macro sets, though they don't say what it is.)

I do find it funny that he mentions that the gamepad might be more efficient than keyboard and mouse. Again, I'm not sure why this should be a surprise. Gamepads are -made- to be fluid and efficient. Keyboards were designed based on typewriters, which are themselves known to be laid out inefficiently.

Overall, this is something that I've been asking for for a long time, and I think console players are really going to like it. I think other games will look to it as a standard in the future, even if they don't support console play, just because of the fluid gameplay experience it offers. You're going to start to see players expect it, and complain if they don't have it, which is only a good thing in my mind.
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#36 Feb 21 2013 at 6:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Wint wrote:
Nashred wrote:
It looks really nice but what was wrong with the way ffxi did macros...


Macros will be in ARR. And you can assign them to hotbar action slots.


FFXI's macro system was also super awkward on a controller requiring you to scroll through selections. If you set this system up properly, you'd be a single button combination away from any ability you could need (maybe two if you have to swap to another set).


This was what led me to start suggesting controller key combos. Scrolling through to select macros was very inefficient, often costing precious milliseconds to get to the right one. I wondered why I could have roughly 25 attacks at my fingertips just playing Super Smash Bros., but had to scroll through a menu like a neanderthal just to use my 20 macros. It didn't exactly take a stroke of brilliance to solve the problem, just a willingness to create a UI that actually considered the peripheral's capabilities.

NOW if they'll just release an integrated gamepad+keyboard peripheral, all will be right with the world. I still don't want to have to put down my gamepad to type, or use one of those silly text-pads that force you to hammer something out with your thumbs.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#37 Feb 21 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Screenshot

Like this thing? This was for the PS2, but there's no particular reason it couldn't be used with the PS3 that I know of.
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#38 Feb 21 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Exactly like that thing. In fact, I have two of them.

The problem is, that model isn't made particularly well, not to mention they're all over a decade old and virtually extinct. The analog sticks and keys tend to get stuck, causing players to walk around while afk and to talk like a ******* ssssssssssssssnake. And for some games, they just weren't really support correctly, requiring additional application to cobble something together. Keeping one in working order is the problem.

Otherwise, the design works brilliantly. I'd never use anything else if I had the option.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#39 Feb 21 2013 at 6:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah we discussed that one a few weeks ago I think. Might have been months.
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#40 Feb 21 2013 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, but I'm willing to bring it up as often as it takes to get somebody on top of it :P
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#41 Feb 21 2013 at 6:25 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
talk like a @#%^ing ssssssssssssssnake.


That sssssoundssssss pretty bossssssssss.
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#42 Feb 21 2013 at 6:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
talk like a @#%^ing ssssssssssssssnake.


That sssssoundssssss pretty bossssssssss.


He's not lying, they really did do that a lot. I still have the keyboard part from mine actually.
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#43 Feb 21 2013 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Screenshot

Like this thing? This was for the PS2, but there's no particular reason it couldn't be used with the PS3 that I know of.


Yeah I had one of those. I really liked it
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#44 Feb 22 2013 at 6:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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I am in love with the subtle changes to the areas and towns. It truly looks like a single player FF. Also, SE is just toying with us at ~4;00-`4:02.

I'ts a MAMMET! In public. Following a person! OMG give me Pup NOW.
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#45 Feb 22 2013 at 6:56 AM Rating: Decent
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A require a manlier pet!

A moogle is fine too.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#46 Feb 22 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
I am in love with the subtle changes to the areas and towns. It truly looks like a single player FF. Also, SE is just toying with us at ~4;00-`4:02.

I'ts a MAMMET! In public. Following a person! OMG give me Pup NOW.


Yeah the mammet is one of the pets I got to play with.

I know a little baby behemoth is planned, manly enough for you Kachi? Smiley: tongue
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#47 Feb 22 2013 at 8:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Morbol all the way for me.
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#48 Feb 22 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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I sense attention to details and many hours of invested forethought behind these designs. I love how all the landscapes are not flat and there is elevation and scale. The controller interface is butter, it could have been expanded to 256 hot bar buttons but was perhaps kept as is to avoid over complications.

If they can market this right and get the info out there. The timing of this mmo release for ff fans is great. We couldn't be more ready for a more traditional FF to come about right now.
#49 Feb 22 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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I like how you pointed out that the landscapes aren't flat and featureless. This is what I noticed with my hands-on as well. La Noscea, while still being developed, looked amazing and was much more fun to explore than before.
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#50 Feb 22 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I also love the inclusion of the color GREEN to the BROWN that was Thanalan. IT really screams "A Realm Reborn" to see plantlife in that desert.
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#51 Feb 22 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
PS3 currently seems to lag alot but the PC looks nice. Ul'dah and surrounding areas are amazing.


I'm crossing my fingers. This has been addressed in the Live Letter this morning. They said Sony is working on improving this and since I won't be buying another PC any time soon, all my hopes are pinned on the optimization efforts.
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