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I think ARR will fail.Follow

#1 Feb 25 2013 at 10:49 AM Rating: Default
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It just seems like a mash up of generic MMORPG elements. the combat also seems pretty boring.

this isn't NDA breaking, I'm just basing this on official videos and stuff.

do you guys still think ARR will be good?
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#2 Feb 25 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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#3Poubelle, Posted: Feb 25 2013 at 10:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) no offense it just doesn't seem so great. the people who will play it are probably going to be the people who already played the old version of FFXIV.
#4 Feb 25 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not sure why your description is a bad thing.

We ******* when they tried new things. Now they try established MMO trends that are good, and it will fail? I did not jump from mmo to mmo. My experience is limited to 1.0, FFXI, and a touch of SWTOR. I look forward to picking up tons of quests and completing quick "kill some rats" quests, as this is not a mechanic I have played to death.

That said, the people who played 1.0 to death (including me) are masochists who may find this far too easy and might not like it.

Edited, Feb 25th 2013 12:10pm by Louiscool
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#5 Feb 25 2013 at 11:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know why you're predicting this based on Alpha videos and without hands on with the game in it's current state.

People wonder why SE has an NDA in place Smiley: rolleyes
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#6 Feb 25 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
I don't know why you're predicting this based on Alpha videos and without hands on with the game in it's current state.

People wonder why SE has an NDA in place Smiley: rolleyes



I'm still wondering, Wint. Good games in the rough don't need the hide, they need good feedback. And a game that's improving doesn't need isolation, it needs exposure.
#7 Feb 25 2013 at 11:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's clear Poubelle is just trying to bait folks into breaking the NDA. These threads are getting a little tiresome.

EDIT: and just as a general life tip, Poubelle:

Quote:
no offense it just doesn't seem so great. the people who will play it are probably going to be the people who already played the old version of FFXIV.

(people who are content with a good graphics MMORPG with final fantasy elements, and not many other redeeming qualities)


Prefixing a statement with "no offense" doesn't give you a free pass to say something ignorant and offensive. It just makes you look like even more of a tool than if you'd just made the insulting statement.

Edited, Feb 25th 2013 12:18pm by Torrence
#8Poubelle, Posted: Feb 25 2013 at 11:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ah. well I do try out a lot of MMORPGs and I'm not really looking forward to it. it's sleep inducing
#9 Feb 25 2013 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I think you may be in a shrinking group of doubters. Although this might not be the pinnacle of MMOs it is probably going to be one of the top ones. Add the fact that its Pay to Play with constant updates, tweaks, add-on contents, and a combination of a lot of the good in MMOs right now, plus the freshness of Final Fantasy, and a few exclusive content.... This game is primed to be great.

You can't base the game being bad on Alpha Videos, or Beta for that matter. You can however say that the game does look good, its pretty, smooth, has a decent UI, and the solo or group aspects of it target just about everyone. Just like WoW. You don't have to be hardcore to have fun or have good gear but if you are Hardcore, there is tons of content and equipment to get for you to be that much more hardcore.

I'm sure you are semi trolling but in reality I think anyone who really hates(ed) the game is slowly seeing the potential that this game has and the direction it is taking. Goodluck hating FFXIV, you will soon be playing old MMOs that are stale until something else comes along that you can pretend to hate.
#10 Feb 25 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Wint wrote:
I don't know why you're predicting this based on Alpha videos and without hands on with the game in it's current state.

People wonder why SE has an NDA in place Smiley: rolleyes



I'm still wondering, Wint. Good games in the rough don't need the hide, they need good feedback. And a game that's improving doesn't need isolation, it needs exposure.


I would guess it's because people are using that as their make or break decision on whether they're going to play. From what I saw in the alpha videos, and what I saw in my hands on with the beta code, things change drastically between the two. You really can't assume that because it's in the beta it's going to be there for launch, they've demonstrated over and over that they're willing to change anything within reason.
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#11 Feb 25 2013 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
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I'm wondering why there's an NDA too. This is a game I paid $80 for years ago.

imo they should encourage people to talk about the changes leading up to ARR release

but on every other MMO forum it's the same way, XIV posts gets deleted for NDA.

its definitely giving people who are curious an uneasy feeling about ARR


Edited, Feb 25th 2013 12:41pm by Poubelle
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#12 Feb 25 2013 at 12:01 PM Rating: Good
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I'm wondering why there's an NDA too. This is a game I paid $80 for years ago.


I'll be blunt. This is not the game you paid $80. That game ended in November. The videos are clear indications that this game is something different.

As far as giving people who are courious an uneasy feeling. That entirely depends on the level of courious they are. Those who are strapped to their seat, like you and I, waiting for every scrap of info to leak out publicly to chat over, will always feel like there's room for more opinions and more feedback.

But I imagine there's only so much server space and if they made all aspects of the Beta Public, the demands to get in the beta would be pretty darn high. They limit their sample source so they can listen more closely, I suppose.

Also, we need to remember this is the internet. There is no stable middle ground to form an opinion off of. Everyone's opinions must fall in line with one stereotype or the other, equally extreme and opposing stereotype, which you are playing as a perfect example of.

I don't think this game will fail. Likewise I don't expect this game to be the best that's ever come out, or to fit everyone's tastes. I do expect it to survive nicely like FFXI did, finding its niche and sticking to it. This is an easy conjecture to make due to how previous FF titles have always been - having a core fan base with others debating what they like and hated about it. If SE can achieve even that, then they accomplished what they set out to do - which is reach the quality expected of the Final Fantasy franchise. Personally, that's all I ask of them as well.
#13 Feb 25 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Wint wrote:
I don't know why you're predicting this based on Alpha videos and without hands on with the game in it's current state.

People wonder why SE has an NDA in place Smiley: rolleyes



I'm still wondering, Wint. Good games in the rough don't need the hide, they need good feedback. And a game that's improving doesn't need isolation, it needs exposure.


No, the NDA is very much to prevent people who are playing it like a demo and making rash judgments on something that is not a final product and spreading those things. People who would break nda and tweet about how it sucks are, generally, not providing feedback.

Quote:
especially since FFXIV doesnt have a whole lot going for it in the combat department. for example TERA has this generic quest system as well but it does have action combat as a redeeming quality


OK... there is no way to know this at all from a video. You aren't being coy. You are either breaking NDA, or you are making terrible rash decisions from a 30 second clip on the internet.

Either way, this statement hogwash and poppycock.



Edited, Feb 25th 2013 1:07pm by Louiscool
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#14 Feb 25 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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No, the NDA is very much to prevent people who are playing it like a demo and making rash judgments on something that is not a final product and spreading those things. People who would break nda and tweet about how it sucks are, generally, not providing feedback.


True, but now you have a problem where the only ones who are spreading info on the game are those who break the NDA because they hate it and want to shoutcast their rash opinions on every channel they can to vindicate that opinion. While those who enjoy it are forced to keep their traps shut lest they be banned.

I just feel that it is a touch counterproductive. Then again, knowing full well the idiocy of the internet I suppose there is no easy solution. There are likely those who trumpet horns loudly in complaints on the boards but would never hope to dare remove their precious 'sucky' crack away from them. - Those who love to complain but truly have no substance or willpower behind that complaint.
#15 Feb 25 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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At this point can we just agree that Poubelle is a troll?

All he does is make threads designed to bait people into arguing with him... that's what a troll does.

As for why the game is under NDA, it's really simple: a game that's going to undergo huge changes doesn't need to be sending mixed messages to those people looking in from the outside. If there were no NDA, then you'd be getting this confusing stream of information from alpha and beta testers that would certainly contradict itself more and more as time went on and different periods of time were mistaken for one another.

You lift an NDA when your game isn't going to undergo any more major changes. That's happening in phase 4 when the game is opened up for, essentially, the stress testing phase of beta.
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#16 Feb 25 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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All he does is make threads designed to bait people into arguing with him... that's what a troll does.
Not a good one.
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#17Poubelle, Posted: Feb 25 2013 at 12:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) im not a troll. I ask the tough questions
#18 Feb 25 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Seems like this thread wasn't a question, just a rather not well formed opinion.
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#19 Feb 25 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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You'll have no argument from me about Poubelle being a troll. He is, and a dangerous one at that.

However we're in the era of gaming when openness is needed more than secrecy. Think of Aliens: Colonial Marieens and how the preview from that game represented, in no way, the final product issued. While Yoshida's team is in no way that closed mouthed about things, it does create a hostile environment for them to work in in any situation when they want or need to withhold information.

The internet is going to sort itself out into haters and fanboys regardless of what stage the game development is in, but it might turn some people on the fence towards the game to actually see improvements being made in real development time. The "Hey wow, they fixed that" realization can show that even existing flaws in the game may not last.
#20 Feb 25 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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#21 Feb 25 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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The thing is, the vast majority of people who are interested in MMOs have already written FFXIV off as a dismal failure. Most of them have no idea what was actually wrong with the game other than "lulz it sux."

Seeing alpha footage shows a fairly generic MMO. We here know that what we're seeing is a major improvement over what was there before, but the Internet as a whole doesn't know that.. they'd see that footage and think "wow clone with final fantasy name. Next!" rather than see it as progress toward an end.

SE can't afford for that to happen. They need a larger playerbase than they started with in order to make FFXIV live and survive. At this stage, because they're still making large changes, they need to hold those things they aren't sure will make it to the final product close to the vest so that there isn't a flood of confusing and contradictory information going out.

I just saw a Facebook thread actually where someone said that the only people who would waste mental power on FFXIV were "fanboys who loved FF13." That's going to be the typical attitude, and it's important that when it comes time for that to be dispelled, that it's dispelled with facts and not with speculation.
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#22 Feb 25 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Quote:

No, the NDA is very much to prevent people who are playing it like a demo and making rash judgments on something that is not a final product and spreading those things. People who would break nda and tweet about how it sucks are, generally, not providing feedback.


True, but now you have a problem where the only ones who are spreading info on the game are those who break the NDA because they hate it and want to shoutcast their rash opinions on every channel they can to vindicate that opinion. While those who enjoy it are forced to keep their traps shut lest they be banned.

I just feel that it is a touch counterproductive. Then again, knowing full well the idiocy of the internet I suppose there is no easy solution. There are likely those who trumpet horns loudly in complaints on the boards but would never hope to dare remove their precious 'sucky' crack away from them. - Those who love to complain but truly have no substance or willpower behind that complaint.


Actually, I can agree with this. If it's good, let people talk. I think SE is quite confident in the reboot but taking every precaution.

I also like to think they are planning a huge hype-train for the later beta segments, and they don't want it spoiled by early phase info. Additionally, less info out there has a good chance to create hype and demand for beta access and more people trying it out in phase 4.

Quote:
Seeing alpha footage shows a fairly generic MMO. We here know that what we're seeing is a major improvement over what was there before, but the Internet as a whole doesn't know that.. they'd see that footage and think "wow clone with final fantasy name. Next!" rather than see it as progress toward an end.


Eh, the people who say things like "lulz ffxiv sux" without playing it are not the playerbase that would stay passed the 30-day trial period anyway so good riddance.

Most people I talk to are actually very interested to try it again, because a reboot like this has never been done before.

Edited, Feb 25th 2013 1:36pm by Louiscool
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#23 Feb 25 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Poubelle wrote:
im not a troll. I ask the tough questions


How to select which children are expendable in the face of dwindling schoolhouse budgets is a tough question.

You are just baiting arguments. Big difference.
#24 Feb 25 2013 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
I just saw a Facebook thread actually where someone said that the only people who would waste mental power on FFXIV were "fanboys who loved FF13." That's going to be the typical attitude, and it's important that when it comes time for that to be dispelled, that it's dispelled with facts and not with speculation.

That's pretty much standard these days with just about anything. Games, music, movies, shows, genres, etc. You can find someone out there ready to call you an idiot if you enjoy it.
#25 Feb 25 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Poubelle wrote:
im not a troll. I ask the tough questions

Not gonna lie. I lol'd at this post.

All things considered, let's pretend you have a game that plays exactly like World of Warcraft, but is different in terms of setting, lore and content, does that make it any better or worse than WoW? In my opinion, no. Ultimately if a development team can give players enough to do to keep them busy and entertained, industry-norm elements aren't all that much of an issue.
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#26 Feb 25 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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News flash; MMO has MMO elements.

Stay tuned; after the break: New Call of Duty to release in November, but will it have guns? The answer may surprise you...
#27 Feb 25 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the key isn't so much that FFXIV nails the MMO features, they're all more or less the same. What they need to nail is the blending of MMO with Final Fantasy. If they get that right, they'll get the audience they want, naysayers be damned.
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#28 Feb 25 2013 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Wrong thread Smiley: mad


Edited, Feb 25th 2013 4:38pm by GDLYL
#29 Feb 25 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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Poubelle wrote:
im not a troll. I ask the tough questions


and your question was "I think ARR will fail."?

It does not look like a question to me.


I tried 1.0, i did not like it. was so excited before launch and was so disappointed and hate lots of elements in the game from user interface to the game play.
There were stuff that I like such as the Disciple of Hands, etc.

I didn't know about ARR until couple months ago, I was just told by friends SE was going to remake FFXIV from the ground up.
I serached more and found they really have the commitment the make this one of the best MMOs, and I will give them and myself a chance on this game again. I might not like it, but it's too early to tell a game will fail when it's still in closed beta, as many stuff in the game could still change.

And how do you determine if a game is a success or not anyway?
When they are popular?? When lots of players bought it? When they win awards?

slightly off topic, I played NBA 2K13 a month ago, popular? i think so, it was "executive produced by Jay-Z"
I played it for a week, and I went back to NBA 2K11.
They release the games with lots of bugs and never try to fix it after release, the post game media conference and the NBA draft in game looks 95% the same as NBA 2K11. My player mode has this bug that you wont' be able to change the name of your player. They never find out where the problem is, they just focus on adding more elements into the game and think their fans like what they had already.
oh, I forgot to mention my friend told me it was a great game, I thought it was too until I tried it myself.

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#30 Feb 25 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
At this point can we just agree that Poubelle is a troll?

All he does is make threads designed to bait people into arguing with him... that's what a troll does.


After a brief start here with this forum -- even I can see this. Obvious troll is obvious.
#31 Feb 25 2013 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh NOW everybody realizes what a worthless user this guy is.

Say what you will about me. I think ARR will fail, too, but at least I don't roll in here like an ******* and pretend I'm "asking the tough questions." Smiley: lol
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#32 Feb 25 2013 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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Mostaru wrote:

slightly off topic, I played NBA 2K13 a month ago, popular? i think so, it was "executive produced by Jay-Z"
I played it for a week, and I went back to NBA 2K11.
They release the games with lots of bugs and never try to fix it after release, the post game media conference and the NBA draft in game looks 95% the same as NBA 2K11. My player mode has this bug that you wont' be able to change the name of your player. They never find out where the problem is, they just focus on adding more elements into the game and think their fans like what they had already.
oh, I forgot to mention my friend told me it was a great game, I thought it was too until I tried it myself.


If I could take the "sim to next key game" from 12(and perhaps 13) and put it in 11's My Player I'd love that. An option to skip the draft and just pick a team would be sweet as well.
#33Poubelle, Posted: Feb 25 2013 at 4:02 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I wouldn't say I'm 'worthless'. I'm starting discussions on an otherwise slow forum. you just got offended because I made some blunt remarks at you. if you're still whimpering over an argument that occurred weeks ago, you're really too fragile to be on the internet.
#34 Feb 25 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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You're still conflating the fact that I notice what a tool you are with the idea that I see you as some kind of equal.

I would agree that you have worth, as a sort of village idiot. Unfortunately, that worth is only realized when you are ridiculed. Ergo, though it may seem paradoxical, you are absolutely worthless.

Good job! Smiley: grin
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#35 Feb 25 2013 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Poubelle wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Oh NOW everybody realizes what a worthless user this guy is.

Say what you will about me. I think ARR will fail, too, but at least I don't roll in here like an @#%^ and pretend I'm "asking the tough questions." Smiley: lol


I wouldn't say I'm 'worthless'. I'm starting discussions on an otherwise slow forum. you just got offended because I made some blunt remarks at you. if you're still whimpering over an argument that occurred weeks ago, you're really too fragile to be on the internet.

this forum will probably stay dead though (despite my thought provoking topics) because of the archaic rating system, and having to pay a subscription to use custom avatars and post images. when you can do that anywhere else on the internet for free.

so most of the people who stick around are people like lolgaxe with 35k posts who stay/pay because they feel important here

Edited, Feb 25th 2013 5:09pm by Poubelle


"Thought provoking comments" is a bit of a stretch dude. Your sense of self worth amazes me. Why not go make your own "I think FF XIV will fail" forum, then you and all the other haters can post all the images you want for free. You might even be popular.,and btw, You consistently prove that the "archaic rating system" is still working as intended.
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#36 Feb 25 2013 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Poubelle wrote:
so most of the people who stick around are people like lolgaxe with 35k posts who stay/pay because they feel important here


I keep coming back to this site because I genuinely like ZAM's FFXI community, a good share of the people are awesome.

I come to the FFXIV forum to check up on the status and current gossip about "A Realm Reborn", and hear people's opinions about the changes to 1.0 (since I stopped playing 1.0 a while back).

As for Lolgaxe, He used to be an annoying mole on our faces, but He wasn't cancerous and we were all doing whatever we could to make it in Hollywood so despite all those tables we were busting to make ends meet, we never found ourselves in a position where we had both the time and money to remove him. The end result is that when we all became supermodels, the public recognized us by the Lolgaxe on our faces and now we wear Him as a sort of beauty mark, so you know what? He should feel important.
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#37 Feb 25 2013 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Wint wrote:
I don't know why you're predicting this based on Alpha videos and without hands on with the game in it's current state.

People wonder why SE has an NDA in place Smiley: rolleyes



I'm still wondering, Wint. Good games in the rough don't need the hide, they need good feedback. And a game that's improving doesn't need isolation, it needs exposure.


The reason for NDAs is mainly because if a feature exists in Beta, people will get ****** off if it's not in release. Many things change up to and after release day even for non-MMO's. The NDA keeps people from reviewing an unfinished product and minimizing the trolling. However, with SE there will always be trolls... Oh look, it's a french trash bin...
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#38 Feb 25 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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Poubelle wrote:
It just seems like a mash up of generic MMORPG elements. the combat also seems pretty boring.


Well, yeah, all of us already know this. Just, please, do try to act surprised six months after release, for Yoshida's sake, darling.
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#39Ostia, Posted: Feb 25 2013 at 7:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jesus you guys are harsh Smiley: laugh Sure he is trolling and biting but damm Smiley: glare I tho you guys where all cool and calm :(
#40 Feb 25 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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I try to be a little bit nicer to everyone than they probably deserve. And wherein Poubelle is concerned, I probably still do that.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#41 Feb 25 2013 at 8:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Obvious troll is obvious.


I can't remember when I put Poubelle on Ignore. May have been during the lead-up to and during 1.0? Honestly cannot remember.
Only problem I have now is everyone quoting him.
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#42 Feb 25 2013 at 10:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Ten years ago, I was a beta tester for EVE Online, which had an NDA in place. So, no, I don't think that NDAs are used by companies to hide the flaws in games under development.
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#43 Feb 25 2013 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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IP's are very close, I'll turn it over to Kaolian to deal with.


Oh please be true.
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#44 Feb 25 2013 at 11:50 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Jesus you guys are harsh Smiley: laugh Sure he is trolling and biting but damm Smiley: glare I tho you guys where all cool and calm :(


You strike me as familiar....

Curious question. Do you know Hyrist's last name?
#45 Feb 26 2013 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Jesus you guys are harsh Smiley: laugh Sure he is trolling and biting but damm Smiley: glare I tho you guys where all cool and calm :(


You strike me as familiar....

Curious question. Do you know Hyrist's last name?


Is this some sort of trick question ?? I am really bad at those :( :(

Btw: Googling hyrist brings a lot of material from FFXI, is that you ?
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#46 Feb 26 2013 at 1:03 AM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Jesus you guys are harsh Smiley: laugh Sure he is trolling and biting but damm Smiley: glare I tho you guys where all cool and calm :(


You strike me as familiar....

Curious question. Do you know Hyrist's last name?


Is this some sort of trick question ?? I am really bad at those :( :(

Btw: Googling hyrist brings a lot of material from FFXI, is that you ?


I assume he means Hyrists' surname in XIV
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#47 Feb 26 2013 at 1:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
All he does is make threads designed to bait people into arguing with him... that's what a troll does.
Not a good one.
They can't all be grandmasters. I mean, where else will young billy goats level up?

Poubelle wrote:
im not a troll. I ask the tough questions

Am I the only one who read that in Cartman's voice?
#49 Feb 26 2013 at 1:35 AM Rating: Good
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Funny cause all my old guild mates who hate 1.0 with a passion love 2.0....
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#50 Feb 26 2013 at 2:30 AM Rating: Default
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^^ The game is not out yet, so i assume they love what the perception of what 2.0 might be ?
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#51 Feb 26 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:


Is this some sort of trick question ?? I am really bad at those :( :(

Btw: Googling hyrist brings a lot of material from FFXI, is that you ?


Yep! Most Hyrist content in FFXI is me. I don't believe anyone replicated the name. I tended to be pretty active in the media community so my name pops up now and again.

But you're not the only one with the name Ostia. I could have swore I saw you on Excalibur. Is Ostia a common name?
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