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#27 Feb 26 2013 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
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SillyHawk wrote:
You do realize that yes the current tier in WoW, refering to MSV, HOF & ToES is puggable with someone who is new to raiding or even undergeared. Having a voice chat helps in many ways.

If you're carrying one person, maybe. 2-3 PUGs with an otherwise seasoned group isn't as realistic.
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#28 Feb 26 2013 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
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I hope that its not for raid/endgame content. For 4-6 man content this could help those with out and LS. If its for everything then it will all probably get nerfed to be easy mode, because people will do nothing but ***** and complain. As for the teleporting to the dungeon, I can kinda understand it, but part of me would like to see it for that zone only. Otherwise it will be as other have said, people will just hang out in towns looking for thier preffered dungeon.

I just hope that there is some sense of community unlike the last few MMOs I have played.
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#29 Feb 27 2013 at 12:59 AM Rating: Good
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huhwhat wrote:
I hope that its not for raid/endgame content. For 4-6 man content this could help those with out and LS. If its for everything then it will all probably get nerfed to be easy mode, because people will do nothing but ***** and complain. As for the teleporting to the dungeon, I can kinda understand it, but part of me would like to see it for that zone only. Otherwise it will be as other have said, people will just hang out in towns looking for thier preffered dungeon.

I just hope that there is some sense of community unlike the last few MMOs I have played.


I haven't heard anything about them limiting the use to only content intended for smaller parties. I'm pretty sure it's for all dungeon content in the game. Yoshi has said that he will not be making things easy right off the bat. He will makes things fairly tough so that we can all enjoy the challenge and then he'll make an easy mode later on after several (6 i think) months.I'd imagine it'll be very similar to how they made the dungeons available to smaller parties later on after it's been available for awhile.
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#30 Feb 27 2013 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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TurboTom wrote:
SillyHawk wrote:
You do realize that yes the current tier in WoW, refering to MSV, HOF & ToES is puggable with someone who is new to raiding or even undergeared. Having a voice chat helps in many ways.

If you're carrying one person, maybe. 2-3 PUGs with an otherwise seasoned group isn't as realistic.


Not really. MSV and Terrace are very easy. You'd only get some hiccups vs Elegon and Sha, maybe Lei Shi (Protectors hit hard). HoF is really the only one I'd be afraid of with 2 or 3 PUG's, but that's only for the last 2 bosses... and maybe Garalon.

Anyway, as for a dungeon finder tool: http://jpgames-forum.de/jpgames-de-foren/news-rund-um-japanische-videospiele/23211-final-fantasy-xiv-our-new-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/

"Also talking about the party system, there’s of course a time, when you need to join a party to complete the Main Story Scenario. So at that time you don’t have to sort of actively go and see players by shouting or calling in the world by yourself. We are implementing as system called Duty Finder, which is like a content finder. The system can automatically find suitable members for your own party – automatically not only from the server you are playing on, but all the different worlds, all the different servers, so it’s going to be very easy to party. And the system also sort of makes sure, that it’s a good balanced party. So you just need to place a request like ‘This is a dungeon I want to try out.’ and then the Duty Finder will automatically do it for you. So you can enjoy a party experience in a very easy way."

I'm not entirely for this cross-world Duty Finder, but we do still have Search Comments (and they're much improved now) for finding people on your own server.
#31 Feb 27 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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DevilFruit wrote:
I'm not entirely for this cross-world Duty Finder, but we do still have Search Comments (and they're much improved now) for finding people on your own server.


It really feels like individual servers for online gaming may become one of those things we talk about as "back in my day ... " type elements. Regardless of our opinion on it, more and more games are moving to seamless worlds joined together through background balancing.
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#32 Feb 27 2013 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I haven't heard anything about them limiting the use to only content intended for smaller parties. I'm pretty sure it's for all dungeon content in the game. Yoshi has said that he will not be making things easy right off the bat. He will makes things fairly tough so that we can all enjoy the challenge and then he'll make an easy mode later on after several (6 i think) months.I'd imagine it'll be very similar to how they made the dungeons available to smaller parties later on after it's been available for awhile.


I hope not. I can see it at lower levels being okay till like maybe 30ish. to help those who don't have LSs get along, until they can find one. As for Easy mode later on, I don't wanna see that either, or atleast make the rewards different for the Hard version.
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#33 Feb 27 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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huhwhat wrote:
Quote:
I haven't heard anything about them limiting the use to only content intended for smaller parties. I'm pretty sure it's for all dungeon content in the game. Yoshi has said that he will not be making things easy right off the bat. He will makes things fairly tough so that we can all enjoy the challenge and then he'll make an easy mode later on after several (6 i think) months.I'd imagine it'll be very similar to how they made the dungeons available to smaller parties later on after it's been available for awhile.


I hope not. I can see it at lower levels being okay till like maybe 30ish. to help those who don't have LSs get along, until they can find one. As for Easy mode later on, I don't wanna see that either, or atleast make the rewards different for the Hard version.

I don't understand why you'd prefer they limit a looking for group/dungeon tool to midway through the game only.
#34 Feb 27 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Waiwan wrote:
So details I am looking for are ...
1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


They've said it will port you to the entrance.

But what's the alternative? In XI people camped the cities and /shouted to form parties. There always will be a social hub auto grouping or not.

Waiwan wrote:
2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


Not sure on this one but your statement is conjuncture anyway.

There always will be people who complain something is too hard just as some will complain things are too easy.

SE has said they're adding scalable difficulty, which is the proper way to handle it PUG or otherwise.

Waiwan wrote:
3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


It's its own reward; you don't have to spend your play time shouting for a group. Should finding fellow players with which to raid really require much effort?

Some parts of an MMO shouldn't be mind-numbingly cumbersome; and finding a PUG for some quick action is among them.

Waiwan wrote:
What are your thoughts?


I recall many a night in XI sitting for hours with a handful of DDs, desperately in search of tanks and healers.

If this features alleviates that, then I'm all for it.

Nothing is all positive. There will, of course, be downsides to it, but I feel the ability to quickly access content outside of regular linkshell events outweighs the potential for the occasional scumbag who would troll with or without the feature.


Edited, Feb 27th 2013 4:26pm by Sephrick
#35 Feb 27 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


What do you mean by additional reward? Are you talking about the Call to Arms feature that WoW implemented? If you are, that was to combat a very specific issue and for the most part, it worked well. What was happening was queue times were atrocious because fewer people are willing to take on the leadership responsibility for a dungeon and play as a tank. To some extent this applied to healers as well, but tanks are definitely the most sought after (not unlike XI was....) As a result, folks who played as a damage dealer would have very long queue times and for some of those people whose only options WERE to play in the damage role, it detracted from the overall experience.

So Blizzard looked at the problem and came up with a solution, in the call to arms feature. The tool looks at the queues, and based on what role is most needed it will offer an additional reward for players queuing as that role. The rewards aren't anything grand, just some mounts and potions and stuff, but it was enough to entice folks who otherwise would have just eaten the queue time to mindlessly mash the pew pew buttons, into switching over to that arms or blood or prot spec instead and lowering those queue times for everyone else. In short, everyone wins.

A dungeon finder tool isn't the end of the world. I promise. Other games have used it to great success.
#36 Feb 27 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eh. While I'm at it, might as well respond to these as well.

Quote:
1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


This actually has the opposite effect. Since you can queue from anywhere, there's no need to stay in town. You can be out hunting down achievements, doing quests, fishing, anything at all and not worry about "missing a shout". Check your facts.

Quote:

2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


WoW's raid finder tool isn't designed with hard modes in mind. It was put there so casual people can experience the lore, and has a different tier of difficulty and loot than regular raids. Is there QQ? Sure, but not for the reasons you seem to think. It doesn't put together the hardest mode raids and it doesn't reward the same ilvl of gear.

In short, why don't you go experience these systems for yourself before making judgments on them? You're wrong on every count.

#37 Feb 27 2013 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Waiwan wrote:

1. Will dungeon finder tool also port you inside the dungeon like wow tool does? Please no.
This just makes player camp cities, stop beeing lazy and move your asses to the dungeon.


2. Will they find you also the raid parties for 24 man raids? Please no.
Here I think that raids should never be pugable, it would just dramaticaly increase more ''This is too hard'' complains ...''We are not able to beat this so please nerf it so even us can do it.'' ''I should not be forced to have a guild to do the raids'' bla bla bla..


3. Will they give you additional reward for using this tool? Please no.
It will find a freaking party for you without any effort, isnt that enought?!


What are your thoughts?
Edited, Feb 26th 2013 3:29pm by Waiwan


1) I would hope that it ports you.
In other MMOs I've played (not just WoW), I've always used the Dungeon Finder not only when I'm in town, but often times when I'm out and about questing and doing whatever. That's part of why it's amazing, you can access it anywhere, stop what you're doing, do a dungeon and potentially get good gear, and then get back to farming puppy pelts (or whatever have you). This can be a very handy thing for someone that hasn't found a good LS yet.

2) Depending on the difficulty of said "Raid" - What would happen if your white mage had to take off because it was his night to make fish tacos? Being able to open the finder to find a quick healer is always better than packing up and going home. But then again, the next white mage will always be a wild card.

3) Meh. I could care less if there's a reward or not.

But all in all, I think it's a good system. Crossing servers should only happen if population issues arise, but not at first, no.

Honestly, I don't think it's purposes should stop there. I think it could be useful for grouping up for various situations you need multiple people for, not necessarily dungeons. If I could've used a system similar to this for finding groups hunting papers for AF3, I would've been pleased. It takes the work out of shouting for groups and certain waiting.
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#38 Feb 28 2013 at 4:44 AM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:

WoW's raid finder tool isn't designed with hard modes in mind. It was put there so casual people can experience the lore, and has a different tier of difficulty and loot than regular raids. Is there QQ? Sure, but not for the reasons you seem to think. It doesn't put together the hardest mode raids and it doesn't reward the same ilvl of gear.



Understand :) you have a point

But about this one you mentioned.
Me personally, I hate the whole, sorry to say this, retarded addition of heroic raids ... in vanila/tbc there was only one tier of raids and if you didnt have good guild enought or didnt play enought, you had no raid gear. Simple. Some might say, ''wow did it right'', they gave acess to everyone, even without guild, they could do these raids .. Well I prefered if they didnt.. you either got yourself good guild, made enought time to progress or bye bye raid gear :) Dont make me laught, differce in gear is ilvl number and colour of the gear and LFR gear has the same set bonuses as normal and heroic.. :D : Awesome difference colour and number. This is why me and many many of my friends left wow. Difference between casual and hc is almost zero, they just practicaly gave everything to everyone, thats how it is.



Edited, Feb 28th 2013 6:08am by Waiwan
#39 Feb 28 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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The biggest negative I saw in the cross-server LFG tool in Rift: Some people saw it as an opportunity at being a total loot ninja or some such. I think as more time goes by and cross-server matching becomes the norm, issues like this will definitely die down. Like someone above said it's going to be less about the "world" you're on and more about a total across the board experience. Add in social media playing a heavier hand in MMO's and it's going to be even harder for some hard core dbag to try to "steal" lootz and run back "home".

The biggest positive: I really liked that I could be out in the world doing whatever I wanted (harvesting/achievements/etc) and be immediately transported to my PUG from the LFG tool. In FFXI I always found myself running from halfway around the world to meet up with my group while fishing. Then, by the time you get there, someone has to be replaced in the next 30 minutes because you just wasted an hour trying to get there. The musical chairs start all over after that and you find yourself spending way to much time standing around waiting for a balanced party.





Edited, Feb 28th 2013 6:14am by LebargeX
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#40 Feb 28 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the duty finder, I think it will make a lot of things much easier and more fun. I don't think it should teleport you to the instance however. With all the aerthytes and abolishment of anima, traveling in XIV will be easy and fast enough as it is. I don't want this to turn into a hub to instance game any more than it already is.

Being able to just join a queue instead of shouting or looking for shouts for events is a great idea, as well as being able to do it anywhere out in the world instead of just standing in town. However in another thread it was discussed how forcing travel creates a good sense of space and makes the world feel big and I think someone said magical even. Of course however there needs to be a balance. The XI way of doing it has its merits, but in a lot of ways it went too far.

In FFXIV though, between teleporting to frequently occuring aerthytes and mounts I think it is already easy enough to make it okay for anyone playing. Having you be teleported to the instance and maybe even back afterwards is just taking the whole "ease of travel" too far imo, doing that would be taking away the good parts of a big world with small gains in time and effort.

Like was discussed there should be a balance to get fast and easy travel while at the same time keeping the sense of a large and explorable world and I believe getting teleported via the queue as well weighs the scales to heavily to the side of easy travel at the cost of the feel of the world.

That said, WoW teleports you to the instance and so I think that is what they will do here as well.
#41 Feb 28 2013 at 10:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
The biggest negative I saw in the cross-server LFG tool in Rift: Some people saw it as an opportunity at being a total loot ninja or some such.


Well, the word "ninja" is sometimes misused. Maybe you mean "wh*re"?

Two warriors are in a party, one is doing DPS and on is the tank. DPS piece drops. Both warriors can roll on it, and the tank wins the roll for his off spec. Does it suck that the DPS warrior needed it and the tank was a ****? Yes.

Is it "ninjaing" an item? No, it's really not.

Truly ninjaing an item isn't rolling need on an item your class is allowed to need on in a random dungeon, although we can all agree it's the "nice" thing to do to let that DPS warrior have the DPS piece. Ninjaing was something that happened in games like XI where everything dropped to the treasure pool, and you told Sephiroth he could lot on the Ridill and everyone else should pass, but Cloud lotted too and laughed as his roll went higher and he got the drop. Hope you put in the chat log that it was slated for Seph, or the GM won't do jack. Cloud doesn't care, because he just hops server and changes his name. If you're lucky, a thread will open on BG forums in the player warning section and dramafest will ensue, but not always. (more's the pity, I wasted many a lunch hour on that forum alone).

Anyway, I digress. That doesn't happen at the raid level in Rift (and wow\etc) because there is a setting called Master Looter, where the leader or the chosen Quartermaster recieves all the loot, and can distribute it to the person in the raid who was slated to get that item. Hopefully that will happen here as well, so we can leave that nonsense behind.
#42 Feb 28 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I wish they'd just let you pull up a "hunting" menu of items in the dungeon and let you pick the ones you want to loot. No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.
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#43 Feb 28 2013 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Personally I wish they'd just let you pull up a "hunting" menu of items in the dungeon and let you pick the ones you want to loot. No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


The issue with that, if I understand what you're saying, is that people would gear up too quickly.

No seriously.. in leveling content it wouldn't matter so much. But at endgame it absolutely would. You need people to be doing this content for a system like the duty finder to work, otherwise queue times quickly balloon into the absurd as people get the gear they want and stop doing it.

Waiwan wrote:
Difference between casual and hc is almost zero


You don't know what you're talking about here. Your statements only make any sense at all if you consider gear to be the determining factor in whether a player is skilled or not; which is a patently absurd thing to say.

Let's take a trip to statistics land~

In the previous tier of WoW raiding (Tier 13, Dragon Soul):
62,648 guilds were documented on wowprogress as having participated minimally in raiding, or roughly 800,000 players give or take.
Of those, 1,300 guilds never killed the second boss of the instance on normal difficulty.
And when we get to the top end (the guilds that cleared the entire instance on heroic difficulty), we find that only 14,126 guilds (or roughly 200,000 players) killed the final boss on heroic.

So what happened? If the difference between casual and heroic is nothing, where did those other 600,000 players go? Could it be that, in fact, there's quite a large difference in what players are able to accomplish? That perhaps, even having gear from LFR (which existed in that tier) isn't enough to propel someone to the top, far beyond their actual level of skill?

****, let's go even further and look at the Glory meta achievement which, if you're unfamiliar, requires you to perform strange tasks while defeating all these bosses. It looks like 6,398 guilds got that, or roughly 10% of all tracked guilds.

I realize that WoW hurt you in a fundamental way when the designers realized they were spending a ton of time on something only a tiny handful of people would ever see. But if your entire thesis is that they've removed the distinction between casual players and top-end raiders, you are absolutely wrong.
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#44 Feb 28 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Personally I wish they'd just let you pull up a "hunting" menu of items in the dungeon and let you pick the ones you want to loot. No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


The issue with that, if I understand what you're saying, is that people would gear up too quickly.

No seriously.. in leveling content it wouldn't matter so much. But at endgame it absolutely would. You need people to be doing this content for a system like the duty finder to work, otherwise queue times quickly balloon into the absurd as people get the gear they want and stop doing it.


People would only gear up too quickly if the item was guaranteed to drop and they were guaranteed a roll. WoW's system doesn't work like that, which is what I assume Kachi is referring to.

Quote:
Raid Finder uses a system called Personal Loot. When a boss is killed for the first time each week, every player has a fixed percentage chance of receiving a loot item. For each player, the game will decide whether the player will receive loot. If so, the game will then select a class- and spec-appropriate item from the boss's loot table and immediately deposit the item into the player's inventory. The specialization is the one the player is using at the time of the boss's death, and is not related to the role chosen by the player when queueing for the raid. All players who do not receive a loot item will instead be issued a bag of gold. All loot gained through this method is strictly Bind on Pickup and can not be traded with other players.

Bosses may only be looted once per week, though they can be run as often as desired.


That's what I assume he is talking about, and currently Blizzard is investigating making it so that you select the items you would prefer to get should you happen to be lucky enough to win the random selection out of the 20 people in the raid (because people were queuing as one role to get a fast queue then ninja-swapping to the role they wanted a chance to receive loot for). It's actually slower than gearing up through a raid, especially if you are a tank or a healer who raids tend to make sure they max out first and there's less competition. It's definitely not a "fast" way to gear up, unless the RNG gods smile upon you. Not to mention this isn't top tier gear, either. Watered down encouters mean watered down equipment and no one is facerolling hard modes with this stuff.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 12:20pm by Torrence
#45 Feb 28 2013 at 11:22 AM Rating: Good
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People would only gear up too quickly if the item was guaranteed to drop and they were guaranteed a roll. WoW's system doesn't work like that, which is what I assume Kachi is referring to.


Could be, if so I misunderstood him. I was confused by:

Quote:
No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


Which made it sound as though you'd be pre-selecting the loot you wanted and then you'd have a higher chance to get that as opposed to getting something less desirable.

My understanding for what WoW is planning is allowing you to sort of alter your loot table to get gear for another spec *instead* of your current spec. The odds would be the same, you'd just be getting loot as though you were a different spec.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 11:23am by Callinon
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#46 Feb 28 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

Which made it sound as though you'd be pre-selecting the loot you wanted and then you'd have a higher chance to get that as opposed to getting something less desirable.

My understanding for what WoW is planning is allowing you to sort of alter your loot table to get gear for another spec *instead* of your current spec. The odds would be the same, you'd just be getting loot as though you were a different spec.


I don't think Kachi was looking to have the odds of getting loot increased for the individual. The game essentially does a /random on its own to choose who is going to get a drop from this boss, and the person who was selected would get something they were interested in.

The alternative is public rolls, where sometimes people are ***** and roll on something just to spite someone else, or to sell, or whatever.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 12:35pm by Torrence
#47 Feb 28 2013 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
People would only gear up too quickly if the item was guaranteed to drop and they were guaranteed a roll. WoW's system doesn't work like that, which is what I assume Kachi is referring to.


Could be, if so I misunderstood him. I was confused by:

Quote:
No public loot pool, just custom odds for the stuff you want dropping straight to your inventory.


Which made it sound as though you'd be pre-selecting the loot you wanted and then you'd have a higher chance to get that as opposed to getting something less desirable.

My understanding for what WoW is planning is allowing you to sort of alter your loot table to get gear for another spec *instead* of your current spec. The odds would be the same, you'd just be getting loot as though you were a different spec.

Edited, Feb 28th 2013 11:23am by Callinon


The way I understand Kachi's idea is this:

Party of 8: Tank, Healer, Buffer, 4x DD, Caster.

When entering the instance, players pull up a list of the loot pool and choose:
Tank - Shield
Healer - Cloak
Buffer - Hat
DD1 - Spear
DD2 - Spear
DD3 - Gloves
DD4 - Spear
Caster - Staff

They go through the raid and kill the boss and the shield, spear, and a crystal drop. Tank is the only one who picked the shield, so he gets it. 3 DD's chose the spear, so the game rolls on each to see who gets it. Crystal is dropped randomly to anyone in the party. This way you don't have a BLM thinking about maybe lvling WAR, then seeing Ridill drop and going "OMG MINE I was thinking of lvling WAR!"
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#48 Feb 28 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Or they could just implement a need before greed system that won't allow you to select need for an item that your current class can't equip.
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#49 Feb 28 2013 at 1:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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#50 Feb 28 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
TurboTom wrote:
Or they could just implement a need before greed system that won't allow you to select need for an item that your current class can't equip.


We had a need before greed system in DCUO, but it wasn't class restricted, which kind of defeated the point. Anyone could roll need or greed, but if one person did need and 12 other did greed, the one got it. This caused no one to ever roll greed for anything. The problem I have with this system is that some people have more jobs leveled than others. Say I level BRD, GLD, LNC and ARC, but Joe only leveled LNC and ARC. To run the raid we need a BRD and I'm the only one in the company who has it leveled. This means that until someone else in the company levels their BRD up, I'm stuck only gearing mine up while joe can gear up both of his jobs. What if I max it out before someone gets theirs to cap? That means I can't go on LNC and work on gearing that job, which is ludicrous.

It's not always as easy as "find another BRD and invite him to your ls" or "Find a way to win without a BRD" (queue Kachi's class balance argument Smiley: wink). In that situation, a player would be SOL and at the whim of other players, which is a bad design in my opinion.
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#51 Feb 28 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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383 posts
IKickYoDog wrote:
TurboTom wrote:
Or they could just implement a need before greed system that won't allow you to select need for an item that your current class can't equip.


We had a need before greed system in DCUO, but it wasn't class restricted, which kind of defeated the point. Anyone could roll need or greed, but if one person did need and 12 other did greed, the one got it. This caused no one to ever roll greed for anything. The problem I have with this system is that some people have more jobs leveled than others. Say I level BRD, GLD, LNC and ARC, but Joe only leveled LNC and ARC. To run the raid we need a BRD and I'm the only one in the company who has it leveled. This means that until someone else in the company levels their BRD up, I'm stuck only gearing mine up while joe can gear up both of his jobs. What if I max it out before someone gets theirs to cap? That means I can't go on LNC and work on gearing that job, which is ludicrous.

It's not always as easy as "find another BRD and invite him to your ls" or "Find a way to win without a BRD" (queue Kachi's class balance argument Smiley: wink). In that situation, a player would be SOL and at the whim of other players, which is a bad design in my opinion.

Well, I can't ever imagine you'd need an ideal setup for random instance, but SE's made me scratch my head often in the past. Furthermore, if your LS or team is making you take a certain class to whatever it is that you're doing, they should offer you priority or at least a chance to roll. In the latter case, however, a master-looter system would be best.But that brings me to another point; if your guild is making you go to raids and not letting you loot on stuff that you can use, maybe you need to find a new guild.

Now, as far as a need/greed system with randoms is concerned, if it's a queue system, there should be nothing holding you back from queuing from the class that you want gear for. Even in WoW, most people are pretty cool about letting you loot for your OS, but the game blocks you from needing any gear that's useless to your class. I could only assume that SE is smart enough to develop a system that does the same.
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