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JPGames interview with Yoshida-sanFollow

#52 Mar 18 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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iFixit has a kit that includes the heat gun, tools, and replacement compound/pads for $40, so pretty cheap really. I just don't have the cash this month so it will have to wait.

HSG for the Vita is cool, they have weekly tournaments with daily courses you can compete in, usually around 3000-5000 people participating world wide. They're a LOT better than I am though.
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#53 Mar 18 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Before my wife and I had kids, we would play quite a bit of Hot Shots golf 3 against each other on the PS2. It was fun and this thread is making start to feel nostalgic.
#54 Mar 18 2013 at 2:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well I know you have a PS3 now, you should check out HSG: out of bounds for the PS3, absolutely gorgeous game.
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#55 Mar 18 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
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Having said that, sports and thinking games like chess have actual value. They can sharpen the mind and body....Most video games are not like any of these things. At their best they require serious coordination of the thumbs, and more often they just require you to play the game even when it's boring--even though that's the exact opposite of the reason you bought it.


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The qualities you're describing that are present in many games contribute to mental acuity and other types of learning... i.e., games are certainly good.


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I think you're confusing the value of games with the value of trophy systems.


I was actually just responding to your comments, which you seem to go back and forth on quite a bit. Either games have value or they don't. If they have value, then their achievements also have value and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand for being "stupid", just because you don't understand them or because you are trying to drill them down to little more than a pong-esque hand-eye coordination experience. We've come a long way from pong, you know, but even then, I wouldn't dismiss players who had the skill to achieve a high level of gameplay.

Games today are strategic (even the most basic ones) and your dismissive and flippant attitude makes me wonder why you even play games if you think they are so unworthy of your time.

Edited, Mar 18th 2013 2:00pm by Torrence


Ah, well I think you've understandably taken my comments out of context. Games are certainly good; game achievements are seldom meaningful. You'll have to remember that I'm quite a games fanatic--to me it goes without saying that games have value. BUT, most of that value is in providing leisure stimulation and relaxation. The tangential "developmental" aspects of gaming provide added value to that leisure experience which gives it societal merit. Game achievements, contrarily, frequently engage players with an illusory carrot that neither gives them enjoyment nor meaningful personal development. Ergo:

Games are good.
Achievements and trophies: meh.

And there are some achievements which are exceptions to the rule, but unfortunately in a way where their merit is most often undermined completely by the 99% of achievements which are absurd time-wasters or meaningless blue ribbons. They exist solely for you to want to have them, when you really shouldn't want them and don't really even want to earn them. Going back to the wealth analogy, it's like people who keep trying to earn more money and acquire more things--even though it neither makes them happier nor enriches them in any way. They're just grasping at illusory carrots. THAT is what I call utterly stupid.
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#56 Mar 19 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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99% of achievements which are absurd time-wasters or meaningless blue ribbons


The irony is that we are talking about something that is considered one of the ultimate time-wasters: video games in general, mmos in specific.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. If the arena has value, the achievements have value, and I've always held that position. I think that gamers tend to not get a fair shake, while being expected to respect things like Iron Chef as a legitimate competitive arena. It's especially disheartening when even our own folks are belittling our measures of skill and tenacity, but I can see I'm not going to change your mind on this one.
#57 Mar 19 2013 at 1:09 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
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99% of achievements which are absurd time-wasters or meaningless blue ribbons


The irony is that we are talking about something that is considered one of the ultimate time-wasters: video games in general, mmos in specific.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this. If the arena has value, the achievements have value, and I've always held that position. I think that gamers tend to not get a fair shake, while being expected to respect things like Iron Chef as a legitimate competitive arena. It's especially disheartening when even our own folks are belittling our measures of skill and tenacity, but I can see I'm not going to change your mind on this one.


Are you even trying to hear what I'm saying? It really seems like you're only hearing what you want to hear.

An arena can have value whereas the achievements have no value. It happens all the time. The achievements in video games are often awarded just for playing the game, for example. They're participant trophies. They're meaningless. Others reward you for completing inane tasks that don't necessarily require any meaningful application of skill. 90% of the time they don't indicate that you've reached any measure of skill or performed a task of any actual difficulty. There's no real accomplishment attached. It'd be like the Kindle releasing trophies for reading books. That's not why people read books. There are lots of good reasons to read books... enjoyment, to learn and grow as a person (wow, just like video games!). Earning a trophy for getting to page 168 isn't one of them.

You do understand that we're talking about things like gamerpoints, trophies, Xbox achievements, right? Not actual achievements.

I take the same position of any pro in the recreational domain. Pro-football quarterback? Good for you. You're the best football-thrower in all the land. What an accomplishment that is that helps nobody at all except for you and the people you share your inflated paycheck with. Thank you for giving our country something to watch while they eat Doritos and grow fat rather than doing something constructive (like playing football!) with their Sunday afternoon. You are truly a national treasure.

So yeah, video games are good. But no, you shouldn't feel any special recognition for playing them well. That's not the point of playing them. You're not doing a service to anyone. You're playing a game. ****, at least the Iron Chef makes something that others can eat and enjoy. Are playing games a waste of time? NO. Everybody needs play time. It's an essential part of a healthy human life. But so are sleeping, eating and breathing, and you don't deserve any recognition for those, either (and you won't get any).

People should make games and people should play games. And I repeat: achievements, trophies and points... MEH!

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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#58 Mar 19 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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So yeah, video games are good. But no, you shouldn't feel any special recognition for playing them well. That's not the point of playing them. You're not doing a service to anyone. You're playing a game. ****, at least the Iron Chef makes something that others can eat and enjoy. Are playing games a waste of time? NO. Everybody needs play time. It's an essential part of a healthy human life. But so are sleeping, eating and breathing, and you don't deserve any recognition for those, either (and you won't get any).

People should make games and people should play games. And I repeat: achievements, trophies and points... MEH!


I could never put it better than this, well done i agree 100%!
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#59 Mar 19 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi, I don't think you get to decide what the point of playing video games is, as that would differ from person to person. You don't get to decide their importance, how they "should" be played, etc.

then again I couldn't really take you seriously after you downplayed being a pro quarterback as no big deal/no real accomplishment. I guess you think athletics are pointless or something. I get the sense that you're out of touch with reality.

and I get the sense that you have a very inflated opinion of yourself too.

stop overthinking the situation. some people find achievments/trophies, 100%ing the game, having little badges on their account to share what games they like/have played... some people like that stuff. and games are for fun after all.
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#60 Mar 19 2013 at 4:07 PM Rating: Good
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There are lots of good reasons to read books (...) earning a trophy for getting to page 168 isn't one of them.

And there I thought you were just another self-proclaimed know-it-all without any sense of humor...
Stop it, or I'll actually have to re-assess my conviction! Smiley: laugh
#61 Mar 19 2013 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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We probably just aren't on the same page as far as what constitutes an achievement. When I think of achievements, I think of "The Perfect Akylios" - which is defeating the entire four stage, nearly thirty minute encounter without any of your 20 raid members dying. It's ******* hard, because there's loads of stuff to die to and it was once the hardest encounter in Rift. Not only does that achievement show that you have reached the highest level of content in question, but you and your team have mastered the mechanics as well. There's nothing wrong with being proud of having that level of coordination, teamwork, communication, and skill. Achievements allow you to remember things you have done in a neat and easy format, and it also allows others to see what your gaming level\interest is. I'd tend to agree that an achievement for reading up to page 168 is hardly worthy of notice, but knowing that someone has reached floor 100 of Nyzul, for example, wouldn't necessarily be a trivial accomplishment to report.

I just don't see why you have such disdain for achievements. It doesn't make sense to me.
#62 Mar 19 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Achievements / trophies are okay. It's just a form of bragging rights, not unlike displaying your FFXIV character's levels in a sig. Some people value them more than others and that's fine too.

I'm not a big fan of trophies you have to grind to collect, but getting a virtual pat on the back for accomplishing something hard is a nice gesture at the least. And at its best, trophies challenge you to try playing the game in a way you hadn't considered or to find something in it you may have overlooked otherwise.
#63 Mar 19 2013 at 4:51 PM Rating: Default
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Poubelle wrote:
Kachi, I don't think you get to decide what the point of playing video games is, as that would differ from person to person. You don't get to decide their importance, how they "should" be played, etc.

then again I couldn't really take you seriously after you downplayed being a pro quarterback as no big deal/no real accomplishment. I guess you think athletics are pointless or something. I get the sense that you're out of touch with reality.

and I get the sense that you have a very inflated opinion of yourself too.

stop overthinking the situation. some people find achievments/trophies, 100%ing the game, having little badges on their account to share what games they like/have played... some people like that stuff. and games are for fun after all.


Smiley: lol

From you? Priceless.

Newsflash: I'm not the least little bit interested in being taken seriously by you. You mean nothing to me, other than an occasional hardy laugh at your expense. Reflect upon the fact that NO ONE here takes you seriously. Then go somewhere and die quietly.

Torrence wrote:
We probably just aren't on the same page as far as what constitutes an achievement. When I think of achievements, I think of "The Perfect Akylios" - which is defeating the entire four stage, nearly thirty minute encounter without any of your 20 raid members dying. It's @#%^ing hard, because there's loads of stuff to die to and it was once the hardest encounter in Rift. Not only does that achievement show that you have reached the highest level of content in question, but you and your team have mastered the mechanics as well. There's nothing wrong with being proud of having that level of coordination, teamwork, communication, and skill. Achievements allow you to remember things you have done in a neat and easy format, and it also allows others to see what your gaming level\interest is. I'd tend to agree that an achievement for reading up to page 168 is hardly worthy of notice, but knowing that someone has reached floor 100 of Nyzul, for example, wouldn't necessarily be a trivial accomplishment to report.

I just don't see why you have such disdain for achievements. It doesn't make sense to me.


I don't have an inherent disdain for achievements, but I think they are an example of really lazy design at best. As I said, there are some exceptions to the rule-- "The Perfect Akylios" perhaps being one of them. Perhaps. It could also be an example of an accomplishment that seems to require great skill but also requires incredible luck, and therefor a great deal of repetition. That rather seems to lessen the accomplishment to me. If most achievements were indications of coordination, teamwork, communication and skill, then I would think much more highly of them, but still: Meh. And the primary reason is that they are a poor substitute for a real reward.

Good games reward players--it's one of the main things they do. Those rewards exist within the game for a reason--because it enhances the game. If your character gets a trophy that they can walk around and whack things with, that's cool! Even if they can just put it in their house, fine. Achievements are non-rewards. No one really cares that you got them, and you can't do anything with them. They're a consolation prize for lazy design. Now, I find no fault with giving someone an achievement that goes along with an actual award. I think that's probably even an ideal approach. It's just almost never the case.

My complaint isn't with achievements in theory, but achievements in practice. Bearing in mind that game design is a passion of mine (obsession is perhaps a better word), I'm inclined to be rather nitpicky about doing it well. It doesn't mean that they're evil, just that they're an example of bad design. When you get me on a rant, it's in the same way a car fanatic might tear into you if you suggest that the Chevy Cobalt is a good car (is it? I'm not a car fanatic).

I want games to be meaningful experiences. That means meaningful rewards for meaningful play. Achievements struggle to accomplish that in theory, and they miss the mark by miles in practice.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#64 Mar 19 2013 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Not all achivements are bad, i like the ones Blizzard did in WOW, some of them where silly as ****, but most of them where coherent and fun, now i know of a few that where very annoying to attain and where very grindy but the way i see it, there are achivements for everybody, i liked completing the ones that dealt with dungeons and raids, bosses and stuff like that, but i knew a girl that was strictly playing to finish the one for the pets and stuff lol
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#65 Mar 19 2013 at 9:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just recently been playing Borderlands 2 and I would complete a part of the game and get an achievement. Didn't really mean anything to me. I never really paid much attention to trophies or achievements. I can see the side where others are for them, especially if they add some additional challenge to a game like some have already mentioned. Everyone is different and will like and play games differently.
#66 Mar 19 2013 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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I didn't earn a trophy for page 168 but when I was in 7th grade my best friend and I single handedly won the schools' "Read around the world" contest in about two weeks. Our class of 30 was supposed to collectively read 24,901 pages in a month.

We said the 1992 middle school equivalent of "pfffft amateurs" and both hit a combined 24,000 on our own in half that time. That was the first time I read Gone with the Wind (around 800 pages) and a few books I probably ought not to have been allowed to read yet. (Like Clan of the Cave Bear.)

We got an "achievement" and also a pizza party for our class.

Come to think of it, that was before I got my SNES for Christmas that year. Smiley: lol

Edited, Mar 19th 2013 11:37pm by catwho
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#67 Mar 19 2013 at 9:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I got a signed certificate or something like that in 7th grade from Michael Crichton for reading Jurassic Park. Not sure how he knew, guess my teacher at the time sent something in on my behalf. Pretty sure it got thrown away.
#68 Mar 19 2013 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent
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It's interesting reading people's opinions on the trophy system. I hadn't given it though outside whether I was interested in getting it or not. It was nice reading both the pros and the cons.
#69 Mar 20 2013 at 4:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually, I love it.
It keeps the obsessive-compulsive nerds occupied while I enjoy the games.
Win/win.
#70 Mar 20 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Actually, I love it.
It keeps the obsessive-compulsive nerds occupied while I enjoy the games.
Win/win.


Aside from the part where I care whether other people are actually enjoying the games or are just getting strung along by compulsion, I agree.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#71 Mar 20 2013 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Not all achivements are bad, i like the ones Blizzard did in WOW, some of them where silly as ****, but most of them where coherent and fun, now i know of a few that where very annoying to attain and where very grindy but the way i see it, there are achivements for everybody, i liked completing the ones that dealt with dungeons and raids, bosses and stuff like that, but i knew a girl that was strictly playing to finish the one for the pets and stuff lol


My Ex did that >.>. She got that stupid skunk finally and probably rarely used it. However she did end up discovering a great way to make gold by selling some of the drake whelps for 1000-5000 gold. I stuck with my singing sunflower from Plants vs Zombies XD.

Also, I was planning on getting a Vita when I heard the possibility of a port of Monster Hunter 3rd, but when they chose to inexplicably continue to make games for Nintendo systems I gave up that idea. There is no possible way you could play that game with a Wiimote... You pretty much had to buy a Gamecube controller... GG Nintendo, GG.



Edited, Mar 20th 2013 4:24pm by DamienSScott
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