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So Summoners will have all the previous summons huh?Follow

#1 Mar 01 2013 at 1:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I thought that was quite a claim when I read it... so because I hate myself, I decided to figure out just what that would mean... because I'm kind of an idiot like that.

So apparently, just counting main series Final Fantasy games (but including re-releases), I came up with 80 77 distinct summons since the concept of summoning things started in FF3.

So here they are... your future summoner's spell list.

 
Adrammelech (12)    Alexander (6 7 8 11 13)   Anima (10)                Ark (9) 
Asura (4 5)         Atomos (9)                Bahamut (3 thru 10 + 13)  Bahamut ZERO (7) 
Belias (12)         Bismarck (6)              Bomb (4 5)                Brothers (8) 
Brynhildr (13)      Cactuar (6 8)             Cait Sith (6)             Carbuncle (6 8 9 11) 
Catoblepas (6)      Cerberus (8)              Chaos (12)                Choco/Mog (7) 
Chocobo (3 4 5)     Cockatrice (4 5)          Crusader (6)              Cuchulainn (12) 
Diabolos (6 8 11)   Doomtrain (8)             Eden (8)                  Exodus (12) 
Famfrit (12)        Fenrir (6 9 11)           Garuda (11)               Gilgamesh (6) 
Goblin (4 5)        Golem (5 6)               Hades (7)                 Hashmal (12) 
Hecatoncheir (13)   Ifrit (3 thru 11)         Ixion (10)                Kirin (6) 
Kjata (7)           Knights of the Round (7)  Lakshmi (6)               Leviathan (3 thru 9 + 11) 
Maduin (6 9)        Magus Sisters (10)        Mateus (12)               Midgarsormr (6) 
Mindflayer (4 5)    Mist Dragon (4)           Neo Bahamut (7)           Odin (3 thru 7 + 9 11 13) 
Palidor (6)         Pandemona (8)             Phantom (6)               Phoenix (6 7 9) 
Quezacotl (8)       Ragnarok (6)              Raiden (6)                Ramuh (3 thru 7 + 9 11) 
Seraph (6)          Shemhazai (12)            Shiva (3 thru 11 + 13)    Siren (6 8) 
Syldra (5)          Titan (3 4 5 7 9 11)      Tonberry (8)              Typhoon (7) 
Ultima (12)         Unicorn (6)               Valefor (10)              Whyt (4)        
Yojimbo (10)        Zalera (12)               Zeromus (12)              Zodiark (12)     
Zone Seeker (6) 


So yeah.... summoners are going to be BUSY

Even allowing for the likelihood of combining some of these that are pretty much the same things like Quezacotl and Valefor or Syldra and Mist Dragon... it's still going to be a ridiculously large number of summons.

EDIT: Apparently I can't count

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 1:37am by Callinon

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 8:54am by Callinon
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#2Poubelle, Posted: Mar 01 2013 at 1:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) where did they say that? how many summons does FF11 summoner have now, a decade++ later?
#3 Mar 01 2013 at 2:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Even allowing for the likelihood of combining some of these that are pretty much the same things like Quezacotl and Valefor or Syldra and Mist Dragon... it's still going to be a ridiculously large number of summons.


Quezacotl is based off an Aztec god; he's nothing like Valefor aside from them both being bird-like. They have different elemental alignments; so do Syldra and Mist Dragon. Just saying, I don't consider them basically the same.

I would appreciate having all the Summons available-- it would certainly exploit the nostalgia factor about as hard as it can possibly be exploited, which I don't object to. Even if the game isn't particularly good, I could appreciate the nostalgia for a little while.

Now as for implementation of that many, that sounds problematic in a number of ways, which is not to say that it can't be done, but I would be interested to know their plan.
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#4 Mar 01 2013 at 3:00 AM Rating: Good
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You forgot Typhoon (7)
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#5 Mar 01 2013 at 3:53 AM Rating: Decent
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There's also this.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#6 Mar 01 2013 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Poubelle wrote:
how many summons does FF11 summoner have now, a decade++ later?


Irrelevant.

If they add some that are just used as kindof spells, where they come, do something and then go away, I could see it being possible, but a little overkill. I'm not sure how summoner will work this time around mechanic wise, but if it used as a pet job, I doubt we will be seeing ALL of them as usable summons.

Edit-clarification

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 7:22am by Ryklin
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#7 Mar 01 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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My guess is they won't implement ALL of those, but what Yoshi-P was trying to say is that any of them are possible.

You could also probably roll Belias and Ifrit into one, etc.
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#8 Mar 01 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also a mention that Brothers were a boss in 11...

A lot of what is listed here as a 'summon' are also a major monster in the game so we'll likely get to see those in their monster forms rather than summon forms.
#9 Mar 01 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Think summoner is going to work more or less in the same way as in FF11 :P
#10 Mar 01 2013 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I kinda hope not. I was never really happy with its implementation in XI. A few familiar-type summons would be fine (generic ones like Moogle/Chocobo/Remora in particular), but it never really felt true to the FF series to me.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#11 Mar 01 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't see why not. While there would probably be only a handful of really useful ones, SE would do themselves a disservice to ignore a blatantly perfect opportunity for quest\achievement (read: grind).

Lots of folks who like the summoner class would go after every single summon just to say they had them. Doesn't matter if they are all super useful or not.
#12 Mar 01 2013 at 8:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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The one summon I'd really like to see is Anima from X. That guy creeped me out Smiley: nod
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#13 Mar 01 2013 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
The one summon I'd really like to see is Anima from X. That guy creeped me out Smiley: nod


I think Anima was a woman.... Seymour's mother, actually.

I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. Lol
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#14 Mar 01 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
I kinda hope not. I was never really happy with its implementation in XI. A few familiar-type summons would be fine (generic ones like Moogle/Chocobo/Remora in particular), but it never really felt true to the FF series to me.


I would agree.

SMN was my main in XI and loved it to death, but I always thought that SMN shouldn't be a pet-type job. Personally, I would've liked seeing the blood pacts be the actual spell being cast (if that made sense). For instance, select avatar -> select bloodpact -> cast avatar who immediately uses bloodpact then auto-release. Depending on gear, all that MP ticking away was just wasted if you ask me, that is, IF you left them out for any period of time.
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#15 Mar 01 2013 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Ryklin the Malevolent wrote:
Poubelle wrote:
how many summons does FF11 summoner have now, a decade++ later?


Irrelevant.

If they add some that are just used as kindof spells, where they come, do something and then go away, I could see it being possible, but a little overkill. I'm not sure how summoner will work this time around mechanic wise, but if it used as a pet job, I doubt we will be seeing ALL of them as usable summons.

Edit-clarification

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 7:22am by Ryklin


It's not a pet job like FFXI summoner. Arcanist will have carbuncle, summoner will "imbue carbuncle with the power of the summon" or something like that.

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#16 Mar 01 2013 at 8:52 AM Rating: Good
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Quezacotl is based off an Aztec god; he's nothing like Valefor aside from them both being bird-like.


I was going for a functional similarity.. Quezacotl and Valefor are both lightning birds.. or close enough as to make no difference.

FF12 also had a lot of different names for functionally the same summons as previous games; probably because it took place in an established world. Although it also had Chaos and Zeromus... so.... orbital wobble?

I don't actually expect all those to be available. I expect that what Yoshi-P actually intended was that they were eligible for use in 14.. just the wording was kinda sloppy, so I decided to investigate what that would actually mean.

Quote:
You forgot Typhoon (7)


You're right. The source I was working from missed Golem (5) as well, but I caught that one... I'll correct the Typhoon one just to keep it from messing up my list.
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#17 Mar 01 2013 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
I don't see why not. While there would probably be only a handful of really useful ones, SE would do themselves a disservice to ignore a blatantly perfect opportunity for quest\achievement (read: grind).

Lots of folks who like the summoner class would go after every single summon just to say they had them. Doesn't matter if they are all super useful or not.


It would be brilliant, for sure, and can I say that that's part of the reason why I would be very surprised to see it? The main problem is all of the new assets they would have to develop. It's a whole lot of work even to do one summon, let alone designing the questing/event content to unlock it. But ****, that alone would probably make the game significantly more successful.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#18 Mar 01 2013 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Torrence wrote:
I don't see why not. While there would probably be only a handful of really useful ones, SE would do themselves a disservice to ignore a blatantly perfect opportunity for quest\achievement (read: grind).

Lots of folks who like the summoner class would go after every single summon just to say they had them. Doesn't matter if they are all super useful or not.


It would be brilliant, for sure, and can I say that that's part of the reason why I would be very surprised to see it? The main problem is all of the new assets they would have to develop. It's a whole lot of work even to do one summon, let alone designing the questing/event content to unlock it. But ****, that alone would probably make the game significantly more successful.


Obviously they would do them in expansions or patches to keep that carrot in front of you.

The only problem I see, they will have to drastically change their job system. As it stands, each job only gets 5 abilities. I am REALLY hoping they change this, but we have no details.
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#19 Mar 01 2013 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well I saw more than 5 in the hands on I got, and that was only level 35. Since it caps at 50, I'm guessing there will be more.
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#20 Mar 01 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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He's talking about the job classes as a single entity. Not Job + Class.

In 1.0, aside form the stat and armor differentials, there were only 5 core abilities separating a dragoon from a lancer. I too hope this changes as the game goes on. But I have no problem with the concept that you're primarily focusing on a limited number of skills. This happened automatically regardless of skill libraries in previous MMOs.
#21 Mar 01 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Golem was in 6 as well.

You also missed Maduin from 6.

Great work so far but on a closer look you're actually missing a fair number.

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 9:47am by Onionthiefx
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#22 Mar 01 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Well I saw more than 5 in the hands on I got, and that was only level 35. Since it caps at 50, I'm guessing there will be more.


Oh man oh man Wint, that makes my day. Why did I not read your write-up? I am a fool.
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#23 Mar 01 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Personally while I don't necessarily want to have a ton of abilities, I'm generally of the mind that more is better... if they're actually balanced and useful. If they're going for strategic play, the harder it is to choose the right decision, the more challenging the game is, the more potential it has to be fun.

Games where you just rotate through the same actions over and over every battle get boring fast.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#24 Mar 01 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Personally while I don't necessarily want to have a ton of abilities, I'm generally of the mind that more is better... if they're actually balanced and useful. If they're going for strategic play, the harder it is to choose the right decision, the more challenging the game is, the more potential it has to be fun.

Games where you just rotate through the same actions over and over every battle get boring fast.


Agreed. Rift is a prime example of a game that has wayyyyy too many abilities. In any given soul all of them proc a different buff, so to be really optimal you end up with such a complex rotation that most players never take their eyes off their keybinds. That's going too far.

But swing swing swing WS is way too simplistic as well.

I'm hoping for a good blend that lets us make decisions, but doesn't require us to miss the beauty of the scenery as we fight.


#25 Mar 01 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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If we will have that many, it sounds like a Blue Mage wandering around the world trying to learn them all. Some easy...some totally not easy, and maybe having to wait til certain levels and skills learned for each. Some soloable, some needing a full alliance? That would be totally sweet.
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#26 Mar 02 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
Ryklin the Malevolent wrote:
Poubelle wrote:
how many summons does FF11 summoner have now, a decade++ later?


Irrelevant.

If they add some that are just used as kindof spells, where they come, do something and then go away, I could see it being possible, but a little overkill. I'm not sure how summoner will work this time around mechanic wise, but if it used as a pet job, I doubt we will be seeing ALL of them as usable summons.

Edit-clarification

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 7:22am by Ryklin


It's not a pet job like FFXI summoner. Arcanist will have carbuncle, summoner will "imbue carbuncle with the power of the summon" or something like that.


Well, the official page says:

Quote:
The beast tribes of Eorzea worship and summon forth beings known as primals, among which are Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan. Yet what is a god to one man is a demon to another, for the city-states of Eorzea see these beings as a grave threat to their collective survival.

In times immemorial, there lived mages who had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will. Known simply as summoners, the existence of these men and women and their arcane art have been all but lost to the ages.


So this makes me think we will be able to summon the actual primals and not just work through Carbuncle after we reach Summoner status. I wish they would give is a little Summoner teaser...

In time... in time.



Edited, Mar 2nd 2013 8:03am by Ryklin
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