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PS3: Keyboard vs ControllerFollow

#1 Mar 01 2013 at 7:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I've never played FFXIV but I did play FFXI for years on PC using solely the keyboard, never used the mouse. I expect FFXIV will be fairly similar?

I'm going to be playing on PS3 and initially thought I could just get a wireless keyboard and use that alone. But having watched the gamepad videos released by Square Enix (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hqbg9_ZJLw) the controller seems quite effective and user-friendly.

Having played FFXI, I realise the importance of being able to communicate with the other players, so at least some form of typing will be necessary... So what are your views on using:

1) Full-sized wireless Keyboard, no gamepad/controller

2) Gamepad/Controller and mini keypad (something like this: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51xvISXjIIL._SX300_.jpg) <-- Has anyone used these?

OR

3) Mixture of gamepad/controller and a full-sized keyboard <-- Would that be too difficult to keep dropping/picking up your controller to type?
#2 Mar 01 2013 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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To me, mini keypads are so ineffective that you might as well be picking up and dropping your controller. Maybe even affix is to a lanyard on your wrist like you would with a Wiimote. For me, anyway, I'm going with 3, if my netplay controller doesn't keep up, at least.

****, I'm half tempted to saw a controller in half and glue it to the sides of a keyboard. Make my own :P
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#3 Mar 01 2013 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah we've talked about the PssssssS2 Logitech keyboard/controller combo they had around when FFXI came out, but if I were going to play this on the PS3 I would still want a full sized keyboard on my lap. Honestly I've molded my office into something that is much more comfortable than my livingroom would ever be, so I've never really considered playing the PS3 version.
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#4 Mar 01 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Decent
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I've considered that too; the question really is what to do with the controller while typing.

Also, I guess I'd be looking at a new controller. Mine came with the system and has to be plugged in to a 3 ft. cable to charge. If it were to die on me mid-session, I'd be screwed.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#5 Mar 01 2013 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
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Oh, I got it. You can just make a mount that suspends the controller over the keyboard in your lap. So basically, the controller just floats there above the keyboard. That would probably work even better than the Logitech design, and much easier to make.

Someone should really manufacture those. It'd be really easy to make, and with the markup on peripherals like that, you could make a tidy sum.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#6 Mar 01 2013 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Oh, I got it. You can just make a mount that suspends the controller over the keyboard in your lap. So basically, the controller just floats there above the keyboard. That would probably work even better than the Logitech design, and much easier to make.

Someone should really manufacture those. It'd be really easy to make, and with the markup on peripherals like that, you could make a tidy sum.


Hah! That's actually a pretty cool idea.

I think I'm leaning towards using a mixture of keyboard & controller as well - but it does kinda seems to superfluous to have two... doesn't it?
#7 Mar 01 2013 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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I played XI with a controller and attempted the 360 chat pad at one time - it ended up so much slower than just dropping the controller to my lap and typing, not to mention the way it was laid out you had to press a button twice to register the / so you could start typing something. Forget about quick replying with crtl+r or anything like that. Get a full keyboard.

I know that this is pretty foreign to the XI crowd in general, but there is also this really neat thing you can do on a pc called voice chat.

:p
#8 Mar 01 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Oh, I got it. You can just make a mount that suspends the controller over the keyboard in your lap. So basically, the controller just floats there above the keyboard. That would probably work even better than the Logitech design, and much easier to make.

Someone should really manufacture those. It'd be really easy to make, and with the markup on peripherals like that, you could make a tidy sum.


Something like a Gorilla mount for the controller would be awesome.

http://0.tqn.com/d/gofrance/1/0/c/E/gorilla-pod-gift-25.jpg
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#9 Mar 01 2013 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually I play FFXIV with a controller and keyboard, since I play from my couch I would have the keyboard in my lap and use a logitech wireless controller. It work real good for me, I only use the keyboard for chat, but at the same time I did had to create several micros to play at a hardcore endgame level and I am going to do the same for ARR.
#10 Mar 01 2013 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Nice to hear some people's experiences. Seems like controller and full keyboard is the most popular.

Torrence - that's a good point. I forgot about the lack of quick replies etc on a mini keypad.

Have they mentioned anything about voice chat being built-in to the game for PS3 users?
#11 Mar 01 2013 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I think I'm leaning towards using a mixture of keyboard & controller as well - but it does kinda seems to superfluous to have two... doesn't it?


Nah, not any more so than having a keyboard and mouse, really. The only value of the keyboard is to chat-- you can do everything else with a controller, the way it should be. Unfortunately, the keyboard is still the best tool for chat, at least until they add voice recognition to the controllers :P should be coming any day now.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#12 Mar 01 2013 at 8:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Also, I personally don't like voice chat, and I know a lot of MMO players who are opposed to it. Can't count on it for pickup activities anyway unless it's fully integrated, in which case you'll have a lot of unhappy players.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#13 Mar 01 2013 at 9:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Also, I personally don't like voice chat, and I know a lot of MMO players who are opposed to it. Can't count on it for pickup activities anyway unless it's fully integrated, in which case you'll have a lot of unhappy players.


True, I can see why voice chat isn't always preferable. I would only use when playing with friends. Voice chat in pickups would be annoying!
#14 Mar 01 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Also, I personally don't like voice chat, and I know a lot of MMO players who are opposed to it. Can't count on it for pickup activities anyway unless it's fully integrated, in which case you'll have a lot of unhappy players.


The only mmo players I ever came across that were against it were FFXI players. And when I say against it, I mean back when I ran a Dynamis shell and suggested it people flat out told me they would leave if we even had the OPTION of voice chat. I get that not everyone is an extrovert, but I thought that was a little extreme.

I think it's a great way to make an online game feel more real. These are real people you are playing with, and some of us have been friends with people we met in XI for years and years.

It's nice to have quick communication when you are fighting a monster, or sometimes just to hang out and talk about the game.
#15 Mar 01 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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We use a mumble server I set up on my Raspberry Pi for our LS. It's great, we've had over 20 people on it with no lag or other issues. It was really easy to set up and makes Nyzul runs a breeze Smiley: nod
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#16 Mar 01 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Voice chat still the best way to handle communications on endgame content until everyone knows what to do and when to do it. But on pick up parties can be uncomforble since there is always some idiot been bulgar or harrassing the only girl in the group. Text chat still be best way for pick up groups or shouting in the world. Our LS uses mumble without any problems, but the leader is trying TS3 with ARR to see how it handles.
#17 Mar 01 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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My issue with voice chat:

1. My computer is in the living room. If you chat with me, you will hear living room chatter. And everyone will hear you. When someone is watching TV, I mute the game.

2. I have a thick Southern accent and people complain they cannot understand me. Smiley: bah

3. I'm a heavy, fast typer and my Salvage group mocked me for months over the pounding on the keyboard. "The Jackhammer" one nicknamed me.

As long as whatever voice option is included is not always on, though, I don't mind.

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 1:47pm by catwho
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#18 Mar 01 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
My issue with voice chat:

1. My computer is in the living room. If you chat with me, you will hear living room chatter. And everyone will hear you. When someone is watching TV, I mute the game.

2. I have a thick Southern accent and people complain they cannot understand me. Smiley: bah

3. I'm a heavy, fast typer and my Salvage group mocked me for months over the pounding on the keyboard. "The Jackhammer" one nicknamed me.

As long as whatever voice option is included is not always on, though, I don't mind.

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 1:47pm by catwho


Why did you leave your mic open?

lol
#19 Mar 01 2013 at 1:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Use the gamepad for control and a full size wireless kb for everything else, mainly communication.. That is how everyone on the Xbox played FFXI.

Also so far they have said no voice chat for ps3 users as of right now, meaning it could change farther down the road.... Big mistake in my opinion.

For FFXI it made it so much easier for bcnm to give instructions vs typing them all.

They said since the pc has so many chat options... But how many people have a pc next to their ps3?


Edited, Mar 1st 2013 2:23pm by Nashred
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#20 Mar 01 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Also, I personally don't like voice chat, and I know a lot of MMO players who are opposed to it. Can't count on it for pickup activities anyway unless it's fully integrated, in which case you'll have a lot of unhappy players.


The only mmo players I ever came across that were against it were FFXI players. And when I say against it, I mean back when I ran a Dynamis shell and suggested it people flat out told me they would leave if we even had the OPTION of voice chat. I get that not everyone is an extrovert, but I thought that was a little extreme.

In my experience optional voice chat may as well be changed to mandatory for most groups. Or risk creating another way of dividing up the LS. Especially if lots of people ignore regular chat and only communicate through voice. Some may do a better job of that, but I rarely see it.
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If I were playing on PS3 I'd have the regular keyboard in my lap and switch between that and controller. I played XI & my 1st run with XIV that way on my PC.

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 2:47pm by TwistedOwl
#21 Mar 01 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Also, I personally don't like voice chat, and I know a lot of MMO players who are opposed to it. Can't count on it for pickup activities anyway unless it's fully integrated, in which case you'll have a lot of unhappy players.


The only mmo players I ever came across that were against it were FFXI players. And when I say against it, I mean back when I ran a Dynamis shell and suggested it people flat out told me they would leave if we even had the OPTION of voice chat. I get that not everyone is an extrovert, but I thought that was a little extreme.

In my experience optional voice chat may as well be changed to mandatory for most groups. Or risk creating another way of dividing up the LS. Especially if lots of people ignore regular chat and only communicate through voice. Some may do a better job of that, but I rarely see it.
---
If I were playing on PS3 I'd have the regular keyboard in my lap and switch between that and controller. I played XI & my 1st run with XIV that way on my PC.

Edited, Mar 1st 2013 2:47pm by TwistedOwl



Actually that's how it was for one of my LS on ffxi... Half the people were on skype and the other half on xbox chat.
Was a real problem because the leaders would tell everyone in skype what to do and never tell those on xbox... We all be like what are we supposed to do!
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#22 Mar 01 2013 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
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For an organized event, voice chat is helpful... but only if everyone can at least hear it.

For a random pickup dungeon or other non-complex activity? Nah, unnecessary.

It'll be a tough juggling act too. Voice chat is a lot more common now than when FFXI was new, and PS3 users might have a difficult time using a service like Ventrillo or Mumble. SE would almost need to include some form of built-in voice chat in order to bridge the platforms, but it's going to be really tough making something like that not suck.
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#23 Mar 01 2013 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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Depending on the type of phone you have, you can get the chat apps on them now anyway. I usually run vent/mumble on one of my other PCs because my FFXIV PC is for that game only and nothing else. I looked into getting the app on the tablet as well, but I'm unsure as to it's reliability. I don't really see ps3 users having an issue because they can simply just use their laptops to voice chat.
#24 Mar 01 2013 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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When I started FFXI, I full-timed a keyboard. Then in 2003, I discovered Teamspeak and didn't type much anymore. Thats when I got a controller. So even back in 2003/4 I started full-timing a controller, which FFXI let you program yourself. My plans for PS3 are to use the keypad for when it's absolutely necessary and since I already dedicate one laptop to streaming and teamspeak, I'll just keep using that.
#25 Mar 01 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't leave the mike channel open because otherwise people would hear strange things. Like people cooing to the cats who sleep on/near my desk, or my husband ranting about how dumb his students are, or noise from whoever was watching the TV.

If it was up to me, my computer would not be in the living room. But my husband insists on keeping his out here, and if I hauled my setup to the bedroom I'd get lonely really fast.
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#26 Mar 02 2013 at 4:16 AM Rating: Good
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I messed around with DCUO and their intergrated voice chat wasn't too bad. However people leaving it on unintentionally left me having to mute my tv a lot of the time. Then there was just offensive drunks in pick up 8 man raids. Put me off voice chat unles it's intelligently designed (selective muting/time out)
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