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#27 Mar 20 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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Swtor went F2P and wauw.. its more or less unplayable with a F2P account :P

I very much prefer P2P since it keeps out most or at least the majority of idiots with keyboards. Its like a Protect and Reflect at the same time! :O Protecting me from the horrors of internet-people and their MND/INT lowering comments! :O

Even TERA with the F2P went down into the gutter, and opened the gates to the forbidden parts of the internet, from where people from "sides that must not be mentioned" poured in and corrupted the world, so not even a MEGA FLARE could hope to cleanse it. =(

Oh and Grats on the 10.000 post Wint! :D Oh yeah, and take this Reflect Ring, it protects you against 'face palm' worthy comments! :D
#28 Mar 20 2013 at 6:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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I tried SWOTR a week or two ago, and to be honest I would have been ****** if I had paid money for it (and that's saying something, I was happy with my investment in XIV). Wow that game is ugly. The opening cinematics were great, but then you get dropped into what looks like a futuristic version of Neverwinter Nights (which is a great game, but dated graphically). Even my first quest was an exercise in frustration, I promptly uninstalled it. I hope ARR launches sooner than later, I'm not getting much done in XI these days.
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#29 Mar 20 2013 at 6:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
I tried SWOTR a week or two ago, and to be honest I would have been ****** if I had paid money for it (and that's saying something, I was happy with my investment in XIV). Wow that game is ugly. The opening cinematics were great, but then you get dropped into what looks like a futuristic version of Neverwinter Nights (which is a great game, but dated graphically). Even my first quest was an exercise in frustration, I promptly uninstalled it. I hope ARR launches sooner than later, I'm not getting much done in XI these days.


Well you can go around the graphics imo. (I was never a graphic freak anyway, Baldur's gate FTW) The thing that was/is great in SWOTR is the story like for each class. It is simple really good i believe. The problem is that graphics as you said are a big plus or minus for players but thats not even the biggest problem, even before it goes F2P. The biggest problem i had were the bugs. After that we go to the F2P system. Its one of the most stupid ones i have seen as i have already said in another thread. Try to do your class quests and storyline alone and F2P? You are better off killing your self. You simple CAN'T do them alone. Your xp is cut to half so you are always 2-3 lvls bellow the mobs you need to kill and for many other reasons. Simple to put SWOTR devs thought that, by making the F2P of their game practically unplayable they might force the people that came to go for the subscription. I love star wars but i will never try to finish that game.
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#30 Mar 20 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
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I downloaded SWTOR yesterday, but the F2P restrictions are choking compared to say DCUO. The class quests in SWTOR are fun, but I'm not sold on combat/graphics. It was a vain attempt to prevent me returning to ffxi (8 months since I "quit") I have to say my continued absence from XI isn't looking promising.

Edited, Mar 20th 2013 9:09am by Tyka
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#31 Mar 20 2013 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Who said I'm offended? Frankly I'd rather have a subscription based game with a lower overall population than a F2P game where any moron with a keyboard can get in, but that's just me. Quality over quantity.

I would rather pay to have full access to everything than have to nickle and dime my way into a complete game.


Boom! Couldn't agree more.

I think F2P creates the potential for an instant surge in population at launch, followed by a more rapid "dying" as people get tired of the game and don't want to pay for premium content. A good example is Guild Wars 2. I haven't paid a cent for anything beyond the box price of the game, and I never will... and I find it frustrating that I'll never be able to open any of the treasure chests I find throughout the game without spending real money to do so. This element doesn't add to my gameplay experience. It just makes me want to finish my personal storyline so I can stop playing sooner.

I much prefer a subscription-based model for the games I want to play more than others. I like the model in which everyone pays in, and everyone has access. I also like having the filter of a monthly fee to keep out the hordes of gamers who won't add anything of value to our community.

I'm not against casual gamers. Heck, I'm a casual gamer, nowadays. But I'd rather FFXIV be filled with people who are serious about playing the game.
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#32 Mar 20 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
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Who said I'm offended? Frankly I'd rather have a subscription based game with a lower overall population than a F2P game where any moron with a keyboard can get in, but that's just me. Quality over quantity.

I would rather pay to have full access to everything than have to nickle and dime my way into a complete game.


Boom! Couldn't agree more.

I think F2P creates the potential for an instant surge in population at launch, followed by a more rapid "dying" as people get tired of the game and don't want to pay for premium content. A good example is Guild Wars 2. I haven't paid a cent for anything beyond the box price of the game, and I never will... and I find it frustrating that I'll never be able to open any of the treasure chests I find throughout the game without spending real money to do so. This element doesn't add to my gameplay experience. It just makes me want to finish my personal storyline so I can stop playing sooner.

I much prefer a subscription-based model for the games I want to play more than others. I like the model in which everyone pays in, and everyone has access. I also like having the filter of a monthly fee to keep out the hordes of gamers who won't add anything of value to our community.

I'm not against casual gamers. Heck, I'm a casual gamer, nowadays. But I'd rather FFXIV be filled with people who are serious about playing the game.


I agree with you both.
#33 Mar 20 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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I do not play any MMORPG that is free to play, because 99.9% of them end up being Pay to Win, and i have a certain disdain for games like that, if they where to have a model like LoL, then that would be a different story, but the moment they start selling gear for money is the moment i uninstall the game.
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#34 Mar 20 2013 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
I do not play any MMORPG that is free to play, because 99.9% of them end up being Pay to Win, and i have a certain disdain for games like that, if they where to have a model like LoL, then that would be a different story, but the moment they start selling gear for money is the moment i uninstall the game.


I don't always agree with Ostia. But when I do, I upvote.
#35 Mar 20 2013 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
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abesut wrote:
I very much prefer P2P since it keeps out most or at least the majority of idiots with keyboards. Its like a Protect and Reflect at the same time! :O Protecting me from the horrors of internet-people and their MND/INT lowering comments! :O

Even TERA with the F2P went down into the gutter, and opened the gates to the forbidden parts of the internet, from where people from "sides that must not be mentioned" poured in and corrupted the world, so not even a MEGA FLARE could hope to cleanse it. =(


Indeed, even P2P still have a good amount of bad quality players, comparing to F2P, it's so obvious that P2P has a much better environment in most cases.

TERA is just lack of end-game contents; classic korean mmorpgs style (me and my friends called it kimchi mmorpg :P) non-stop meaningless 99% soloable questing, people get bored pretty quick including myself; and the messed up pvp system just ******* me off all the time when all OP'd people can group together having fun to abuse the pvp beginners, and those ppl are here all the time D: but that's not the main reason i quit the game, after i played for a couple months, it goes F2P, it gives me a feeling that going F2P is a back up plan for them when things are not working as they planned, which couldn't give me any security and confidence about the game anymore, so i quit'd right away.

Ostia wrote:
I do not play any MMORPG that is free to play, because 99.9% of them end up being Pay to Win, and i have a certain disdain for games like that, if they where to have a model like LoL, then that would be a different story, but the moment they start selling gear for money is the moment i uninstall the game.


Yeah, i agree with you. F2P is unfair, money = everything, well which reflects the real fact but destroy the fun and fantasy in game world :/

i strongly believe FFXIV is not going F2P, that's a good amount of faith i have with this game ;)


#36 Mar 20 2013 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you can keep the d-bags out, you build up a fairly decent community. Take XI for example, the server idiots are usually weeded out (a few usually remain) and you start forming relationships with the regulars, even if you aren't friends or in the same LS. I would like to see that same sense of community with XIV. Of course if it ends up like the official forums...Smiley: frown
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#37 Mar 20 2013 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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It all depends on popularity to be honest. I do not want people to miss understand what i am about to say but usually the biggest problems i had in MMO's were when kids were playing the game. The immaturity was so big i just wanted to hit my monitor sometimes. There are of course mature and ok kids but thats not the normal case.

That is also another reason i don't like playing F2P games. Anyone, any age can log in and play. The same was also in WoW but thats a special occasion as we all know.

I will give you a good example of an awesome community.

Eve online. The game itself and the interface is so hard that most drop it from the tutorial hehe. And of course the monthly subscription also helps. You will find that most corporations (guilds/clans linkshells w/e you name it) when they recruit players most of them want 18+ or 20+ i ve even seen 30+. They all need an in game interview and when you go more farther ahead in the more serious space Teamspeak interview is a must if you are to be accepted. Yes its like a job interview >_< . **** spies.

Edited, Mar 20th 2013 2:04pm by Teravibe
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#38 Mar 20 2013 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teravibe wrote:
It all depends on popularity to be honest. I do not want people to miss understand what i am about to say but usually the biggest problems i had in MMO's were when kids were playing the game. The immaturity was so big i just wanted to hit my monitor sometimes. There are of course mature and ok kids but thats not the normal case.

That is also another reason i don't like playing F2P games. Anyone, any age can log in and play. The same was also in WoW but thats a special occasion as we all know.

I will give you a good example of an awesome community.

Eve online. The game itself and the interface is so hard that most drop it from the tutorial hehe. And of course the monthly subscription also helps. You will find that most corporations (guilds/clans linkshells w/e you name it) when they recruit players most of them want 18+ or 20+ i ve even seen 30+. They all need an in game interview and when you go more farther ahead in the more serious space Teamspeak interview is a must if you are to be accepted. Yes its like a job interview >_< . **** spies.

Edited, Mar 20th 2013 2:04pm by Teravibe


True, i'm not saying kids are bad quality players either but in most cases they are just not mature enough to pay attention to the big picture and details as well, just like in real life they wouldn't care about important things (politics/importance of showing respect to others for example) as much as adults do, and they dun take things seriously (bad languages/behaviors toward other players, they do whatever they want, they quit the quest whenever they want without saying anything, annoying case like these) Overall, when there is a good amount of kids population, the community will be getting messy as well. But i think it's our responsibility too, to not letting those bad quality players continue their "bad behaviors", best way to me is to ignore them so they dun think they can get attention becuz of doing stupid things, or report them when really feeling offended, this is really personal standard kind of thing so i dun wanna talk more here but just wanna make the point.

PS: i literally laughed out when I read the part you said you wanted to hit the monitors sometimes, that's my favorite quote too :P or i also use "i feel like throwing the monitor out of the window now" sometimes ^^;

#39 Mar 20 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teravibe wrote:
Eve online. The game itself and the interface is so hard that most drop it from the tutorial hehe. And of course the monthly subscription also helps. You will find that most corporations (guilds/clans linkshells w/e you name it) when they recruit players most of them want 18+ or 20+ i ve even seen 30+. They all need an in game interview and when you go more farther ahead in the more serious space Teamspeak interview is a must if you are to be accepted. Yes its like a job interview >_< . **** spies.


I haven't played EO as it doesn't really seem to be my cup of intergalactic tea, but after reading some hilarious Cracked.com articles about the insane douchebaggery that has happened in that world it seems pretty awesome. I really like the idea behind the players creating the majority of the content. The building of corporations and politics by the players is an amazing mechanic way ahead of its time. I would love to one day see this idea transferred to a fantasy game. One where say you and a couple friends could set up on a trade route road or something and demand that traders pay you lest they be killed and their goods ransacked. Unless of course that merchant hired mercenaries...
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#40 Mar 20 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
Eve online. The game itself and the interface is so hard that most drop it from the tutorial hehe. And of course the monthly subscription also helps. You will find that most corporations (guilds/clans linkshells w/e you name it) when they recruit players most of them want 18+ or 20+ i ve even seen 30+. They all need an in game interview and when you go more farther ahead in the more serious space Teamspeak interview is a must if you are to be accepted. Yes its like a job interview >_< . **** spies.


I haven't played EO as it doesn't really seem to be my cup of intergalactic tea, but after reading some hilarious Cracked.com articles about the insane douchebaggery that has happened in that world it seems pretty awesome. I really like the idea behind the players creating the majority of the content. The building of corporations and politics by the players is an amazing mechanic way ahead of its time. I would love to one day see this idea transferred to a fantasy game. One where say you and a couple friends could set up on a trade route road or something and demand that traders pay you lest they be killed and their goods ransacked. Unless of course that merchant hired mercenaries...


I can talk hours and hours for Eve online but i wont since this isn't Eve online forums. :P But i will say this, eve online is one of the most interesting games i have played. Hard as ****, and not only it isn't forgiving but it will also laugh at your face for being weak and then shoot you some more. Its just as real life in all its aspects. You have huge coalitions that fight for resources, making trading agreements war agreements you name it you have it.What ever happens in real world you will find it in there.
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#41 Mar 20 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Teravibe wrote:
I can talk hours and hours for Eve online but i wont since this isn't Eve online forums. :P But i will say this, eve online is one of the most interesting games i have played. Hard as ****, and not only it isn't forgiving but it will also laugh at your face for being weak and then shoot you some more. Its just as real life in all its aspects. You have huge coalitions that fight for resources, making trading agreements war agreements you name it you have it.What ever happens in real world you will find it in there.


I guess that whats kept me from trying it is that I've always heard that there is a HUGE learning curve and barrier to entry. Plus I'm pretty antisocial, even in games, being an Aspie and all. I have a feeling that might cause more difficulty in Eve than most other games. XD
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PUP WHM PLD MNK BLU BST SAM WAR BLM 99 BRD THF NIN DNC SMN RDM 50+

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#42 Mar 20 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
If you can keep the d-bags out, you build up a fairly decent community. Take XI for example, the server idiots are usually weeded out (a few usually remain) and you start forming relationships with the regulars, even if you aren't friends or in the same LS. I would like to see that same sense of community with XIV. Of course if it ends up like the official forums...Smiley: frown


Deep Deep Down! I share this sentiment, i played XI and the game itself fomented a "Party" mentality, that most MMOS of today do not do, having also played EQ and EQOA, the same game design was in place, where if you did not behave in a certain manner, you would not find a party to EXP on, and the community weeded out the bad apples, WoW did this to a degree on endgame content, since you needed to be in a guild in order to pogress futher. The birth of cross server LFG tools and Raids, kinda messed that up, and only because if i am a bad apple i can just pay 40 dollars and change my name, and start over again :/ Which is what has been happening a lot in WOW and newer games.

Also even tho i have been adamant about SE lack of development insight this past decade, i seriously doubt they will ever let FFXIV go F2P.
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#43 Mar 20 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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I generally prefer a subscription model for reasons already beaten to death. But basically, the idea of an MMO is to be a part of a living, breathing world, yeah? At least, that used to be the vision of it, as opposed to a simple multiplayer game. F2P games generally abandon that vision outright, either by drastically lessening support for the game, or by bringing money from the real world into the everyday experience of the game.
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#44 Mar 20 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
I can talk hours and hours for Eve online but i wont since this isn't Eve online forums. :P But i will say this, eve online is one of the most interesting games i have played. Hard as ****, and not only it isn't forgiving but it will also laugh at your face for being weak and then shoot you some more. Its just as real life in all its aspects. You have huge coalitions that fight for resources, making trading agreements war agreements you name it you have it.What ever happens in real world you will find it in there.


I guess that whats kept me from trying it is that I've always heard that there is a HUGE learning curve and barrier to entry. Plus I'm pretty antisocial, even in games, being an Aspie and all. I have a feeling that might cause more difficulty in Eve than most other games. XD


Nah mate, you can still fly solo. The "peaceful zone" (high sec) is open for everyone and the strict recruitment doesn't really apply there i was talking for the hardcore part of the game that happens in null sec (player owned space). Eve online can be perfectly played solo maybe 100% better than any other mmo out there. The only problem with eve is that you do not level up, you can not advance faster from someone else if you playe 24/7. Eve is based in skill training in real time. (setting up a skill to train you train it in 3 minutes 1 hour 10 hours 2 days 25 days even when you are offline).
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#45Poubelle, Posted: Mar 20 2013 at 4:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) again, I really don't know what fantasy world you're living in where d-bags are incapable of paying 12 bucks a month.
#46 Mar 21 2013 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I wouldn't agree that it's a preferred model for most people. It's a decent enough incentive to get someone to try a game once, but unless it's a game they really enjoy it won't matter that it's free or not. They won't continue to play it.

And while it does give folks more freedom to kind of **** around different video games, those of us who were longtime XI players are more likely to be looking for a new home for the next decade. I'd wager that very few on this board are just looking for another time waster to fill in the gap between GW2, Tera, Aion, TSW and SWTOR (among other free to play disasters). For us, the subscription model like it was in XI is just fine.

#47 Mar 21 2013 at 12:30 PM Rating: Default
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I dont see how GW2 or AION are F2P disasters Smiley: dubious
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#48 Mar 21 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teravibe wrote:
Wint wrote:
Poubelle wrote:
I dunno, I feel like using WoW as an example that P2P isn't dead is kind of unfair at this point.


Why, because it disproves your assertion that the only way XIV can succeed is if it goes F2P?


You can also use Eve online. It may not be the biggest but it has more than 400.000 subscribers and it keeps growing. F2P hasn't affected it.


Edited, Mar 19th 2013 9:47pm by Teravibe


Even so, Eve Online is not a typical F2P design where the publisher is trying to cash in on selling in-game gear and shortcuts as their primary source of income. It's more of an anti-RMT measure where subscribers can sell the time they paid for to hardcore players who are willing to trade their in-game currency to play for free.
#49 Mar 21 2013 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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Poubelle wrote:
I really don't know what fantasy world you were living in where FFXI had no d-bags! or maybe my server was just junk. tons of drama, tons of stealing, every top guild using hacks and bots, guys pretending to be girls for a year+ to form relationships and steal items/accounts, and other stuff. lol


Haha, this sort of thing happened to my RL friend that I played with. He was talking to this mithra for well over a year helping them out only to discover it was actually a guy. But then again I also met a couple Galkas that were supposedly female and rolled them because they didn't want to get harassed. This kind of thing seemed to happen quite a bit in FFXI for some reason. Along with an apparently huge subculture of people that really, REALLY get into Role Playing cats.................................................................................................. .

Ostia wrote:
I dont see how GW2 or AION are F2P disasters Smiley: dubious


GW2 just lacks content. I did start playing it again yesterday and it's kind of enjoyable still. A bit better since I'm playing with my friend.
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#50 Mar 21 2013 at 4:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xoie wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
Wint wrote:
Poubelle wrote:
I dunno, I feel like using WoW as an example that P2P isn't dead is kind of unfair at this point.


Why, because it disproves your assertion that the only way XIV can succeed is if it goes F2P?


You can also use Eve online. It may not be the biggest but it has more than 400.000 subscribers and it keeps growing. F2P hasn't affected it.


Edited, Mar 19th 2013 9:47pm by Teravibe


Even so, Eve Online is not a typical F2P design where the publisher is trying to cash in on selling in-game gear and shortcuts as their primary source of income. It's more of an anti-RMT measure where subscribers can sell the time they paid for to hardcore players who are willing to trade their in-game currency to play for free.


Well i would say Eve online is a flat out subscription game. Sure you can buy game time with in game money but that will require for someone to sell it witch means that guy not only paid his subscription but also bought 2 or 3 subscription fees to sell them in game. I run 3 accounts in eve online and each one is payed with a plex (game time bought with ingame money) it costs me around 1.6 billions isk per month to run them. To be able to do this (i ve seen others with a lot more) you need to be playing for a long time and be in places "not so safe". But yea it is also a great way to hit RMT. Not that it doesn't exist but its really weak if you look at other games.
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#51 Mar 21 2013 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
I dont see how GW2 or AION are F2P disasters Smiley: dubious


I wasn't trying to imply that in and of themselves, ANY of them are bad games. I rather like TSW personally - they literally had the most awesome mmo concept I have seen in years and gosh, I really wanted to love that one - but in the end there just wasn't enough to keep interest and they had to go f2p. GW2 is an awesome game and you'll hear me singing its praises to Thayos all day long - but as a "home"... It just doesn't have what Vana'diel had. Aion I never got beyond the first month or so, but as I recall, that was a sub game before f2p as well and it ultimately couldn't sustain the model

So of the games I mentioned, only one didn't even try to be a subscription game, and ironically, that was probably the one with the highest chance of succeeding at that model.
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