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I wish Yoshi could afford to think a little more like thisFollow

#1 Mar 23 2013 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
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So I was browsing for some information about EQ Next and found this article: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/20/soe-live-2012-john-smedley-on-eq-next-and-soes-future/#continued

Now when I read this I quickly realized I agree with a lot of it and I really wish Yoshi was thinking at least a little bit along the same lines. I completely understand why Yoshi is deciding to take the safe route and do what everyone else has done, which has worked fine, but I still can't help but feel like Yoshi could have made a better game if he looked more towards the future of the genre.

In a sense this is the legacy of 1.0 I feel. Not only was it such a bad game it hurt SE and FF directly in a lot of ways, but now it is holding SE back simply because they can't afford to fail again, and frankly trying to do something new is always a risk. Now I am not really saying Yoshi couldn't or doesn't feel the same way, but I do feel like he can't afford to risk anything at all, he has to go the safest route possible even if this might mean a game that isn't as good as it could have been. SE needs to get their reputation back on track so they are given a chance by the players if they ever make a new mmo and right now that just seems to mean make a game that is just as good as the others because it is like the others.

I honestly think that if Yoshi had gotten to do 1.0 with the resources of ARR and enough time he would have done a few things differently compared to what ARR is. Of course this is just speculation, but I think he realizes just as much as John Smedley that the mmo genre is going to start changing (I personally think with EQ Next and Project Titan at the forefront) and the way ARR is shaping up to be it will be a part of the older generation which is sad if you ask me. For the record I don't think every new mmo will be sandbox, that isn't what I am saying.

Now I probably sound super negative which isn't really my intention, I think with the last few years standards ARR will be a decent mmo which will pull some decent numbers if it can overcome its bad reputation after 1.0. As a FF fan though and as someone who feels the genre has been stagnant for too long I wish ARR could afford to be something more.

I realize a lot of you probably don't agree and I don't mind, this is just how I feel about it all, but I do think it was an interesting interview either way that talks about not just EQ, but about the genre as a whole and different related things. Worth a read imo... even if it is John Smedley ;)

PS Sorry if the subject is confusing or bad I just couldn't think of a good one tbh... <.<

Edited, Mar 23rd 2013 7:49am by Belcrono
#2 Mar 23 2013 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I generally agree in regards to making a different game experience, but that aside, nothing else in the article sounded even the slightest bit cogent. If anyone should be working on that, it doesn't seem that this is the guy Smiley: oyvey
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#3 Mar 23 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Lol I won't argue with that.
#4 Mar 23 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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I've skimmed the article, but in general the "safe" route was/is best.

I think you need a solid foundation (or at least an understanding of that foundation) before you start to make any novel changes. This goes for anything really.

I guess there's the possibility of being mired in the same repetitive genre, but SE and Yoshi are currently doing the right thing.

The recipe for success is the combination of familiar game elements combined with novelty, not novelty for the sake of novelty. That's akin to pretentiousness.

Now would l like to see more dynamic and ever expanding/changing content? Sure, but I also think this isn't going to be sustainable until AI becomes advanced enough to create this content itself.

But at a certain point, as I've mentioned in other posts, in regards to Final Fantasy, I play because of the music, artwork, graphics and story. And if that is solid and gameplay is "up to par," then I'll stick around for a while. Anything on top of that is a nice bonus.
#5 Mar 23 2013 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent
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When it comes to emergent gameplay and the notion of players as content, there's also the problem of antisocial behavior. What sorts of ways do you address that in sandbox titles?

It all revolves around what the sandbox elements that you're putting into the game are. Certainly griefers are a part of every game. Our intent is not to make a game where antisocial people rule the world. The intent is to make a world that's immersive and allows so many player interactions and so much involvement, not to empower griefers. Every single one of our new games is designed with that in mind. A good example is PlanetSide 2. There's a very harsh anti-griefing system in that game. It's funny because before we put it in, you had exactly what you'd expect, which was people just mowing teammates down. We went to China Joy, and it was one of the funniest things I've ever seen, just watching people. They only had 15 minutes on the game, so they shot anything that moved. They were just mowing teammates down. So we had to put the anti-griefing stuff in.

This is not going to be Grieferquest, and every system will be designed around not allowing that. It's one of those things where you have to make it so that griefers can't ruin the experience for everyone else.



Hilarious, because FFXIV has been built around antisocial behavior. Maybe not in context of teammates killing one-another, but in that of players being encouraged and rewarded for working by themselves.
#6 Mar 23 2013 at 3:18 PM Rating: Decent
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je355804 wrote:
Hilarious, because FFXIV has been built around antisocial behavior. Maybe not in context of teammates killing one-another, but in that of players being encouraged and rewarded for working by themselves.


Yay! Hyperbole free for all!
#7 Mar 23 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Default
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They tried to innovate in 1.0 but obviously it fell sort. If your trying to innovate in the game industry these days its going to take an enormous amount of time and effort. It is a creative process that can not be rushed.
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#8 Mar 23 2013 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I would rather Yoshi stick to what works, for now, and then add in more varied content by way of expansion packs down the line.
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#9 Mar 23 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Good
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onineko wrote:
They tried to innovate in 1.0 but obviously it fell sort. If your trying to innovate in the game industry these days its going to take an enormous amount of time and effort. It is a creative process that can not be rushed.


An enormous amount of time and effort... hmmm, yeah. we definitely wouldn't expect that from a multimillion dollar SE game.

(I don't say that to insult you Onineko, I say it because SE seems like they don't give a rats behind, until their blockbuster hit flops harder than a fat boy off the high dive.)
#10 Mar 23 2013 at 6:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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je355804 wrote:
onineko wrote:
They tried to innovate in 1.0 but obviously it fell sort. If your trying to innovate in the game industry these days its going to take an enormous amount of time and effort. It is a creative process that can not be rushed.


An enormous amount of time and effort... hmmm, yeah. we definitely wouldn't expect that from a multimillion dollar SE game.

(I don't say that to insult you Onineko, I say it because SE seems like they don't give a rats behind, until their blockbuster hit flops harder than a fat boy off the high dive.)


Yoshi has already been quite candid about their attitude and abuse of the Final Fantasy franchise with this game, I don't think we need to crucify them every few days over it. They're working hard to fix things, give them a shot. Everyone who wants to try the game, whether they were burned by 1.0 or not are going to get a free shot at it in Beta Phase 4, anyone not withholding judgement until then is not being fair.
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#11 Mar 23 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is going to be rushed, but :

A game doesn't have to innovate to be successful. It has to execute. For a game to be fantastic, it needs to innovate AND execute.

Game design is a lot like cooking. And if you extend a lot of arguments about game design to food preparation, it quickly becomes apparent how absolutely ridiculous many of the theories about game design are.

Innovation mostly deals with the presentation of features. You're not likely to be cooking with new foods that the person has never tasted, but you can come up with a new recipe. But it doesn't necessarily matter how high-quality the ingredients you use are. It's not about which features your game has. If you use the finest steak and the finest ice cream in one recipe, it will probably turn out to be weird and gross. But why? Steak and ice cream are both great!

And then we have execution. Everyone knows how to make a hamburger, but to make a GREAT hamburger? That's challenging to pull off. Many game designers try to copy the hamburger recipe (just like many restaurants do), then wonder why their hamburgers aren't as successful. "But we made hamburgers! You LOVE hamburgers!" And just like there are a dozen other burger places with mixed success, there's still McDonald's with it's subpar ingredients sitting happily on top.

At the end of the day, what makes a dish successful is not whether it was different OR whether it followed the recipe. This is a very flawed and naive view of game design that many people seem to grapple with. Game design is about the very subtle balance of elements--how the new and the old blend together into one satisfying experience-- that only a very competent chef can understand. It's not about the ingredients. It's about how they come together to create mouth-feel, flavor, and aroma.

I know some people get irritated with all my blabber about game design psychology, but a game designer needs to understand the gamer's brain like the chef needs to understand the consumer's palate. They don't have to have a technical understanding of it--they may operate mainly on intuition--but they do have to have a much more sophisticated grasp than "how to mix ingredients to make food" if they want to be successful.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#12 Mar 23 2013 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Following that analogy, only a true veteran chef knows when it's safe to toss new ingredients in an old recipe, or substitute stuff.
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#13 Mar 23 2013 at 11:26 PM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
je355804 wrote:
Hilarious, because FFXIV has been built around antisocial behavior. Maybe not in context of teammates killing one-another, but in that of players being encouraged and rewarded for working by themselves.


Yay! Hyperbole free for all!


Oh not at all XD!
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#14 Mar 24 2013 at 4:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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onineko wrote:
They tried to innovate in 1.0 but obviously it fell sort. If your trying to innovate in the game industry these days its going to take an enormous amount of time and effort. It is a creative process that can not be rushed.


I don't think 1.0 failed because of it's innovation, I'm pretty sure it failed because of the lack of effort put into that innovation. I personally would have loved to play what 1.0 should have been at launch. The twists on the battle system were a fresh change from FFXI and WoW. The stamina mechanic and free stat point allocating were two points I liked immensely. But they were implemented poorly and the game was rushed out far too soon. That along with all of the bugs and "WTF were they thinking" moments caused it to fail.
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#15 Mar 25 2013 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
here's still McDonald's with it's subpar ingredients sitting happily on top.


Gross.

Most people just have poor taste in food, clothing, design, cars, and everything else really. People just want cheap, and they end up looking and acting that way too. That will never change.
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#16 Mar 25 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Good
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Eh, I don't know.
Clothing, design and cars are material luxuries. I don't think there's anything particular admirable about having "refined" taste in such things. As food plays an important role in personal well-being, it's another matter. Still, for as much as I really appreciate fine food and such, I'm not above enjoying McDonald's from time to time either.

There are literally scientists in labs working on ways to make the food more addictive. It's not a matter of taste insomuch as exploiting the programming of the brain. It's designed to taste good.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#17 Mar 25 2013 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't say that people have poor taste, but rather people don't have the luxury of knowing better.

I was going to disagree and say something about quality of ingredients in food (in the analogy) and how they do make a difference, but ultimately I agree with Kachi.

Again, Yoshi is going a good job, and sure you want to see the next WoW, iPhone, whatever...to break the mold... but the truth is, FFXIV was never going to be in that position. The downword trend in JRPGs, the staleness of MMOs, the rise of mobile and F2P, the obvious failure of FFXIV and questionable success of FFXIII, and the mismanagement of the Final Fantasy division of SE and you can see that SE wasn't in the position to start gambling and trying to create awesome recipes.

So they're going back to culinary school and learning from the greats, while using (IMO) quality ingredients, to create a foundation of familiarity. Once you have that down then you can experiment.
#18 Mar 26 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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It's execution period. Coaches can draw up elaborate plays, cooks can imagine exotic recipes, car manufacturers can dream up space flying cars, etc, etc. If you fail to execute, you fail on the surface level.

The bold and new when done well is appreciated. The safe and old when done well is appreciated. The bold and new shocks and awes more due to the experience you have not seen before. The safe and old relaxes and comforts you due to experiencing things you are familiar with. Climb a huge mountain your first time and experience adventure, fear, awe. Get hurt during the climb and maybe next time you no climbey huge mountain anymore. But what if you never even attempted to climb that mountain?
Your safe and comfortable but you never really know what could have been.

While the mmo space may seem to stagnate right now. Technology will reinvigorate it with things like google fiber, oculus rift, etc, etc. If computers, servers, and software can advance in pace with those. We may see mmos with 100s to 1000s of players battling in one zone with little to no lag.
#19 Mar 26 2013 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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mmm I'd love an MMO that managed to capture the feeling I had when I played Achaea, Dreams of Divine Lands (a text based MUD). I was never very good at it and never got very far but the game enforced roleplaying. Getting ahead had as much to do with writing a backstory, joining an established family and rising in a player controlled guild (each one actually controlled a class, so if you didn't participate in the guild you couldn't get higher level skills in the class) as bashing rats...

The GMs were gods and often participated in real time events. It was neat, every once in awhile something new and unexpected would happen... the gods would get down and dirty and involved in real world events. It was fun and immersive.

When I first logged in to XI (my first MMO) I expected something similar cause all the muds I'd played had leaned quite heavily on role playing. That it didn't exist was disappointing.

I'd love an MMO where players controlled key institutions and you had to participate in roleplay to get ahead. Alas, it shall never happen. I think that is the magic sauce that these games are really missing though. Getting loot and grinding levels is not immersive. It may be enjoyable but it isn't immersive and it never will be. Dynamic environments are also cool, but without more human control over the world and its institutions the genre will never move ahead really.

Well that's my opinion anyway. I just think that nothing can replace the feeling of being part of a player controlled organization. Joining a in-game thing by talking to an npc can't compare with having to put on a play or perform a poem to become an initiate in the Jester's guild, for example - or to expound upon the nature of chaos to join the.. oh dear forgotten the name of the guild. occultist guild

Anyway, that kind of game creates more interesting memories than fully scripted games are capable of producing. Like once I rolled a new player - a member of the city with the chaos magic wielding guild - starting as that class. So I went and rescued the town's orphans (which were usually sacrificed as part of the occultist guild's rituals) and tried to run them to the holy city of the priests. I got all the way to the holy city but the church was barred to me since I was of the other city, so I couldn't quite save the orphans.

Then I was captured and repeatedly killed by other players... until they got bored because I was level 1 and couldn't delevel.

Anyway, one of my most memorable gaming memories ever.



Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:13pm by Olorinus
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#20 Mar 26 2013 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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@Olorinus: General question, but how do you feel about LARPing?
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#21 Mar 26 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't help but laugh at the word LARP. I'm still not even sure what it is (Dungeons & Dragons?) but the word makes me giggle.
#22 Mar 26 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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LARP= Live Action RolePlay?
#23 Mar 26 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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It isn't a very appealing sounding word, I'll give you that. It's Live Action Roleplaying, where you physically act out the character. It's like improvisational acting in a loose sense. Some of them are more sport-oriented, focusing on combat.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#24 Mar 26 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Eh, I don't know.
Clothing, design and cars are material luxuries. I don't think there's anything particular admirable about having "refined" taste in such things. As food plays an important role in personal well-being, it's another matter. Still, for as much as I really appreciate fine food and such, I'm not above enjoying McDonald's from time to time either.

There are literally scientists in labs working on ways to make the food more addictive. It's not a matter of taste insomuch as exploiting the programming of the brain. It's designed to taste good.


Well it tastes like **** to me, makes me feel like ****, and leaves a strange film in my mouth.
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#25 Mar 26 2013 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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Well, during the eating of a Wendy's triple cheeseburger I feel like I've died and gone to heaven. Smiley: inlove

Shortly after eating one I just feel like I'm about to die.

I only eat fast food about once a month, usually when I'm traveling. The rest of the time I cook from scratch. Thankfully, by now I know how to make things taste delicious without having to add a ton of fat and salt. (A little fat and salt is necessary, but not as much as fast food places use.)
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#26 Mar 26 2013 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Well it tastes like sh*t to me, makes me feel like sh*t, and leaves a strange film in my mouth.


And food, like video games, well... see my sig.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#27 Mar 26 2013 at 10:16 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
@Olorinus: General question, but how do you feel about LARPing?


I can't even find people to trade pokemon in real life, finding folks to play in costume with sounds even more difficult.

More seriously though, I think it is easier to let go and enjoy role playing in a video game because you can truly be whatever you want. Pretending to cast a fireball isn't quite as neat as doing it in a videogame. I think I would feel awfully silly LARPing
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#28 Mar 26 2013 at 10:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
Kachi wrote:
@Olorinus: General question, but how do you feel about LARPing?


I can't even find people to trade pokemon in real life, finding folks to play in costume with sounds even more difficult.

More seriously though, I think it is easier to let go and enjoy role playing in a video game because you can truly be whatever you want. Pretending to cast a fireball isn't quite as neat as doing it in a videogame. I think I would feel awfully silly LARPing


I did a LARP event once... never again.

It devolved towards the end as a lot of:

"My axe cleaves your arm off"

"Nuh uh, I totally had a shield spell up".

"Uh no you didn't dude, and besides, my magical axe can cut through them"

"Uh no way punk, my shield spells were gifted to me from the gods of protection and are impervious"

"No way suck face, there's no such thing"

"Yuh huh"

"Nuh uh"


This is also why I generally have a distaste for PvP online.
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#29 Mar 26 2013 at 11:58 PM Rating: Good
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Oh lawd, I'm so ashamed for roleplay-combat LARPing. Nono, you'd want a game that uses real combat with boffers (foam weapons). If you're in a game where there's any question of what does what, and it's not because you didn't read the rules, it's probably not a good game. You know if you're hit because you feel it.

@Olorinus: It requires a bit of suspension of disbelief, but really not so much more than a video game. Look at it this way--in LARPing, you'll throw a cloth-wrapped ball that will represent a fireball, and that's the sort of thing that works against the immersion a bit. In video games, you literally can't do ANYTHING that the game isn't programmed to do. There are cliffs you can't climb, people you can't attack, etc... It's just learning a new kind of imagination. And you can very often be whatever you want to be as well, sometimes more so.

Anyway, it's a **** of a lot of fun, actually, assuming you're playing a good game with people you like. But just like video games, there are some real stinkers in the LARP world, too.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#30 Mar 27 2013 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Puuuh... I just re-read the article. My true impression is that this guy threw in an overdose of PR pills,
gargled them with a healthy dose of blablablanextgeneration, and finally swallowed them in a big
fit of incrediblenewrevolutionary. Everything he tells us is just another mix-up of the usual overused
catchphrases every single company with sub-par products feels compelled to spit out to credulous
Walmart customers who just beg to be deceived just one more time. Like some cliche "Mandy"
working at a cheap roadside motel who keeps telling herself that maybe the next unshaved drunk
trucker mounting her in his cabin is different. For some 20 years, until she's just as fat & old & leathery
as the chicken wings she's selling.



#31 Mar 27 2013 at 1:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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P.S.:
And although I like ending my posts with catchy analogies, I guess it's o.k. to elaborate a little more. For me, it's
funny to witness that modern games continue to be streamlined and simplified (e.g. cutting away travel times and
the leveling process) to arrive at the "endgame" as quickly and conveniently as possible. At the same time, players
complain that after the 300th endgame dungeon run, the game becomes stale. I mean, how much brain does one
need to have to understand that maybe, just maybe there's a connection between [trunctating a game to endgame]
and [getting fed up with endgame]?
#32 Mar 27 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
P.S.:
And although I like ending my posts with catchy analogies, I guess it's o.k. to elaborate a little more. For me, it's
funny to witness that modern games continue to be streamlined and simplified (e.g. cutting away travel times and
the leveling process) to arrive at the "endgame" as quickly and conveniently as possible. At the same time, players
complain that after the 300th endgame dungeon run, the game becomes stale. I mean, how much brain does one
need to have to understand that maybe, just maybe there's a connection between [trunctating a game to endgame]
and [getting fed up with endgame]?


Absolutely magnificent.
#33 Mar 27 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I think GW2 is an excellent example of a game that cut out all the "BS", only to prove that it could really have afforded at least a little bit more of that "BS".
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#34 Mar 28 2013 at 3:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I think I'm certainly tired of MMOs revolving around developer generated content. It feels like I'm just going through the motions because I can no longer maintain the suspension of disbelief after doing the same things in the same fantasy settings in so many games. Levelling up and grinding for new gear does not feel rewarding anymore. These fantasy MMOs may have lots of content but I think they seriously lack depth and mental challenge, which has killed my interest in the genre. There are just too many restrictions on what you can do in these games resulting in very little complexity compared to games like EVE. There is no scope for the players to create empires, become involved in political intrigue, form corporations, wage wars, change the landscape, etc. All of this is relegated to the background and for some reason any game that tries to implement these things is considered "niche"...

Likely for these reasons I probably won't end up playing ARR or any other fantasy MMO in the near future. I would have if it came 3 years ago, but now I'm more cynical and my life is busier I think I want to spend my free time on fresher experiences.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 5:34am by Dizmo
#35 Mar 28 2013 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dizmo wrote:
I think I'm certainly tired of MMOs revolving around developer generated content. It feels like I'm just going through the motions because I can no longer maintain the suspension of disbelief after doing the same things in the same fantasy settings in so many games. Levelling up and grinding for new gear does not feel rewarding anymore. These fantasy MMOs may have lots of content but I think they seriously lack depth and mental challenge, which has killed my interest in the genre. There are just too many restrictions on what you can do in these games resulting in very little complexity compared to games like EVE. There is no scope for the players to create empires, become involved in political intrigue, form corporations, wage wars, change the landscape, etc. All of this is relegated to the background and for some reason any game that tries to implement these things is considered "niche"...

Likely for these reasons I probably won't end up playing ARR or any other fantasy MMO in the near future. I would have if it came 3 years ago, but now I'm more cynical and my life is busier I think I want to spend my free time on fresher experiences.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 5:34am by Dizmo


Then you should try something different for a change. Try eve online. There is absolutely no Developer generated content. Every event that is happening is from the players and the players only.

A bit off topic but i wanted to show that there are games (MMOs) for everyone out there. :)
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#36 Mar 28 2013 at 7:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I did play it for a good while.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 9:18am by Dizmo
#37 Mar 28 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dizmo wrote:
Yes, I did mention Eve online. :x


It is obvious i lack the ability to read!!

Sorry for that.
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#38 Mar 28 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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About a decade ago I played a modernized browser based MUD where you ran a little fiefdom in a country, with 19 other players, and your goal was to become the dominant fiefdom in your country by attacking other players, stealing their resources, and eventually assassinating the other guys. The rounds reset every two weeks so if your fiefdom got taken over and you were kicked out for the round, you could pick up again in a few days. Everyone got a new turn once every 4 hours. If you neglected your country even for a day, you'd run the risk of getting overtaken.

It was fun. I'd like to see something similar done with a modern day graphical MMORPG.
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#39 Mar 28 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Everyone got a new turn once every 4 hours.

Nighttime included? That sounds an awful lot like NM camping in FFXI.
"Yay guys! My turn just popped! And no other campers around!"
#40 Mar 28 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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There is another browser based game like that called erepublic quite good as an idea. Its basically the real world in the game. With governments soldiers etc. 1 country can basically attack and if can conquer another nation. (not an easy task of course). Played it a bit but dropped due to lack of time.
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#41 Mar 28 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Everyone got a new turn once every 4 hours.

Nighttime included? That sounds an awful lot like NM camping in FFXI.
"Yay guys! My turn just popped! And no other campers around!"


Your turns were stored so when you woke up the next morning you could do a few turns in rapid succession, but yup, night time attacks were common. You'd go to sleep and wake up the next morning only to find your fiefdom got invaded at 5AM and your population has been reduced to a third, while your army has been wiped out, and a few allies of the attackers have stolen all your food to boot, so you have to take your remaining population, stick half of them in the Army to rebuild it, and force the other half to farm. That means your citizens were unhappy and they could petition to revolt and sell you out to one of the other guys via rebellion.

It was fun, but frustrating at times.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
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