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#52 Mar 25 2013 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
It was not really a Bard. It was an Archer with a very small handful of AoE skills which were randomly given music-related names.


Ugh; I echo this sentiment a thousand times. As it is bard is a disappointment, both to its name and as a support class. The abilities don't even really play music... just a vague couple notes after an awkwardly silently cast time. Smiley: disappointed


Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:39am by KaneKitty
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#53 Mar 26 2013 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I think another shift people are going to have to consider is the Class > Job transition. I've had a hard time trying to define to friends who ask what a Job is versus a Class in the game.


I'm aware that this game is not FFXIV, so I don't cause myself unneeded discomfort trying to fit it in the box. I realize that Yoshi had to use the elements of the old system to build. However, since 2.0 is a new game, I would have preferred if he did away with the Class > Job.

Wint wrote:
I rated you back up, only one person rated you down but since you're still at default Karma it took the thread a way I don't want it to go. This is a good discussion, we could branch out into talking about other class/job combos. People have said they want to see THF come back, what would be a job to spawn from THF, NIN? Assassin? What would be a good class to have NIN evolve from?


I would love to play Ninja, but I have no interest in Thief. Assassin sounds like a very fun class too! Along those lines, how would they implement Samurai? Ronin > Samurai? It seems a bit complicated to just Class > Job all the time. You can just create a THF job with it's own rules.

In the end, a NIN is just going to be a THF with 5 extra abilities. Now, to take into consideration that the cap is only 50, what that would mean for both the classes and jobs in the future. From 30-50, they got 5 new skills every 4 levels. We can expect more class abilities/traits than job in the cap raise, still essentially putting more emphasis on the class.

This added to the notion that Yoshi mentioned alluding to multiple jobs coming from one class, scares the **** out of me. A DRK coming from a GLA is still a bunch of DEF traits and abilities with 5 DRK related abilities. Hardly a 'new' job imo.

Grandlethal wrote:
I know a lot of people would likely frown on this idea, but here it goes anyway:

What if instead of having one progression path, it became a split path (one way or the other, not both). So, for example, you are playing Archer and hit level 25. You notice two unique quests offered at the guild. One offers a quest that will lead you to Bard and the other leads you towards Ranger. One lets you focus on party buffs/support, while the other lets you go all out DD.

This would allow people the ability to pick a path that best suits their playstyle and offer a little more diversity and specialization. Some other possible paths:

Marauder: warrior/dark knight
Cleric: White Mage/Geomancer
Thaumaturge: Black Mage/Time Mage
Gladiator: Paladin/Fencer

I am sure people can think up better combos, but I am sure you get the point. I think this would give each player a little more personality and get rid of everyone having the same jobs available all the time.


I still see a time mage with a lot of elemental spells and 5 time related abilities/spells. Just doesn't sit right. Branching jobs from one class seems like a bad path. I hope he doesn't follow through with that.

I'm really interested in how he would make this work as he is privy to more information than I am.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 2:43am by GDLYL
#54 Mar 26 2013 at 1:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know if it was mentioned and if it is relevant but bards were always able to use short bows/crossbows in almost any fantasy RPG i played. Of course that is with D&D rules. FF does not go with them but still in my eyes that haven't seen much of XI yet (currently playing it) when i saw your discussion it didn't feel weird that the bard could use bows.

In games like Baldur's Gate or Icewind dale or even the neverwinter nights series bards were wearing light armors could use simple weapons like swords or short bows and crossbows and could even use shields (not tower shields though). They had the support magic of course but when they had all the buffs applied they could start putting damage as well.
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#55 Mar 26 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like how in XI bard got put on Sagasinger.

So when I'm done singing I can whip out my rusty sword / lightsaber and pretend I'm a badass. Smiley: laugh
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#56 Mar 26 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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I'm jealous of your sagasinger, even if it is just a toy
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#57 Mar 26 2013 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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So nobody's referenced the fact that Bard killed Smaug with an arrow yet? What kind of ****** fantasy nerds are you people?
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#58 Mar 26 2013 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was playing A Bard's Tale, getting sweet loot using my impressive skills with my lute as well as my....well...."lute."
#59 Mar 26 2013 at 10:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
It was not really a Bard. It was an Archer with a very small handful of AoE skills which were randomly given music-related names.


Ugh; I echo this sentiment a thousand times. As it is bard is a disappointment, both to its name and as a support class. The abilities don't even really play music... just a vague couple notes after an awkwardly silently cast time. Smiley: disappointed

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:39am by KaneKitty


Bards should be able to change the battle music you hear as an effect of their "songs." Even if there's no budget for composing the tunes, just offer a library of battle music from previous Final Fantasies. For a haste spell, you'd hear FFX's "Hurry" instead of the usual fight music, for example. Just give people the option to opt-out if they hate it and everyone's happy.

It's gimmicky, but that's my kind of gimmick. Smiley: nod

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 12:51am by Xoie
#60 Mar 26 2013 at 11:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
It was not really a Bard. It was an Archer with a very small handful of AoE skills which were randomly given music-related names.


Ugh; I echo this sentiment a thousand times. As it is bard is a disappointment, both to its name and as a support class. The abilities don't even really play music... just a vague couple notes after an awkwardly silently cast time. Smiley: disappointed

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:39am by KaneKitty


Bards should be able to change the battle music you hear as an effect of their "songs." Even if there's no budget for composing the tunes, just offer a library of battle music from previous Final Fantasies. For a haste spell, you'd hear FFX's "Hurry" instead of the usual fight music, for example. Just give people the option to opt-out if they hate it and everyone's happy.

It's gimmicky, but that's my kind of gimmick. Smiley: nod

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 12:51am by Xoie


Love. It.

Simple, elegant, charming.
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#61 Mar 27 2013 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Xoie wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
It was not really a Bard. It was an Archer with a very small handful of AoE skills which were randomly given music-related names.


Ugh; I echo this sentiment a thousand times. As it is bard is a disappointment, both to its name and as a support class. The abilities don't even really play music... just a vague couple notes after an awkwardly silently cast time. Smiley: disappointed

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:39am by KaneKitty


Bards should be able to change the battle music you hear as an effect of their "songs." Even if there's no budget for composing the tunes, just offer a library of battle music from previous Final Fantasies. For a haste spell, you'd hear FFX's "Hurry" instead of the usual fight music, for example. Just give people the option to opt-out if they hate it and everyone's happy.

It's gimmicky, but that's my kind of gimmick. Smiley: nod

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 12:51am by Xoie


Love. It.

Simple, elegant, charming.


You could do an awful lot with it too. You could queue your group to perform tasks or just a different tune telling you a buff is up or something. Tempo and mood convey a lot. Making it ultra-customizable would be the key. Very cool.
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#62 Mar 27 2013 at 2:45 AM Rating: Good
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Bard being able to have emotes that constantly played tunes would be pretty awesome, even outside of combat. It would be great for ******** around with friends or waiting on some event. Or.. Altana forbid some RP in an RPG O.o

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 4:45am by DamienSScott
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#63 Mar 27 2013 at 2:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
Bard being able to have emotes that constantly played tunes would be pretty awesome, even outside of combat. It would be great for ******** around with friends or waiting on some event. Or.. Altana forbid some RP in an RPG O.o

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 4:45am by DamienSScott


That is a great idea! But i bet the only thing they are gonna get is a /sing or a /dance or something like that and it will go out like "Teravibe started singing" which if you ask me its lame compared to what you can actually do!! Smiley: disappointed

If SE implemented small stuff like that they could boost the RP of the game that would result to a lot of new players that love RP. Or so i think anyway.
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#64 Mar 27 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Xoie wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
It was not really a Bard. It was an Archer with a very small handful of AoE skills which were randomly given music-related names.


Ugh; I echo this sentiment a thousand times. As it is bard is a disappointment, both to its name and as a support class. The abilities don't even really play music... just a vague couple notes after an awkwardly silently cast time. Smiley: disappointed

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:39am by KaneKitty


Bards should be able to change the battle music you hear as an effect of their "songs." Even if there's no budget for composing the tunes, just offer a library of battle music from previous Final Fantasies. For a haste spell, you'd hear FFX's "Hurry" instead of the usual fight music, for example. Just give people the option to opt-out if they hate it and everyone's happy.

It's gimmicky, but that's my kind of gimmick. Smiley: nod

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 12:51am by Xoie


Love. It.

Simple, elegant, charming.


You could do an awful lot with it too. You could queue your group to perform tasks or just a different tune telling you a buff is up or something. Tempo and mood convey a lot. Making it ultra-customizable would be the key. Very cool.


Lol SoulEater! Soul controling everyone by playiing the paino! Reminds me of this.
#65 Mar 27 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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Xoie wrote:
It's gimmicky, but that's my kind of gimmick. Smiley: nod]


Just start simple, I say. It would be so easy just to compose a ~8-10 second melody for each type of song. They could even make it become more complicated for higher tier versions, if necessary.

Is the sound team really so busy that they can't write a grand total of 40 seconds of music for a job that's designed entirely around playing it?
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#66 Mar 27 2013 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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All I know, is that if I ever design a game with a class that can change the battle music, I'm putting Xoie's name in the credits.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
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