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#27 Mar 26 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
I did not say that I like or want a free-to-play model. I think it can potentially lower the quality of the game. I was simply saying that it's a huge possibility for financial reasons.


Also, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you here, but I'm just tired of this argument and I'd rather discuss more fun things than the current financial state of Square Enix. I don't think they're going anywhere, and if they ever needed to drum up some cash they could always fall back on finally remaking Final Fantasy VII Smiley: tongue
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#28 Mar 26 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oh! Thank which ever god got him to Resign!! The Squaresoft killer has finally given Up!

Now whoever becomes CEO, needs to release FF Type 0, tell toriyama to pack his backs and GTFO! Oh and gives us a damm update on Versis jesus is been like a decade <.<
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#29 Mar 26 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Plus if Yoshi-P does keep its promise and not fall into the pressure of SE for a release date, FFXIV ARR will have a change to be a successfull MMO. I don't think there is any future MMO that will have the success of WOW since now their is a new MMO every month not like 10 years ago that you could count them with your fingers.

As far as numbers Phase 1 has shown some posibilities with 100,000 players according to the last Letter from the Producers. There is still a big FF fan base out there. As we reach Open Beta in phase 4, it will give us and idean of the posible success of ARR, then it will be up to the Dev Team to keep the players interest on the game over time. Just like SWTOR, Tera and GW2, the games were pretty fun leveling your class reaching cap with new ideas but fail to keep the interest of the players by updating or having content ready in time for the hardcore players and the subcribers number fall. Time will tell if SE will be able to succed where others have fail.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:40pm by FedeMax
#30 Mar 26 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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FedeMax wrote:
Plus if Yoshi-P does keep its promise and not fall into the pressure of SE for a release date, FFXIV ARR will have a change to be a successfull MMO.


It is not up to him. It's not whether he "falls" for the pressure. If his employers demand certain things of him, he will have no choice but to comply. I guess this is why some people are worried.

This also goes for my remarks about the possibility of a free-to-play model. Yoshi-P saying it will be pay-to-play really doesn't mean that much, especially with a new president and CEO coming in.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 12:46pm by Killua125
#31 Mar 26 2013 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I would PAY a sub to play 1.23. Nuff said, and I know a bunch of my friends who would do the same. FFXI is still Pay To Play and its doing fine with a steady sub base. Pay to Play is the only thing keeping every idiot and his kids on the internet out of the game. I think the less vocal majority of players feel that they would rather pay a small sub and get everything; patches, new content etc. for free than having to pay bunch of small fees.

And no I'm not a fanboy, I simply think that FF14 ARR is GOING to be a good game.

#32 Mar 26 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why do people keep saying that ARR is gonna be F2P or its best to go that way? We are freekin talking for a game that hasn't come out yet!!! Plus the actual dev of the game said that its not gonna be F2P. And the best come up to that is to say "thats what (s)he said" ?

If people that keep yapping that its best to go F2P are actually right ill be the first to say ********** you were right and i was wrong shame on me". But until then you got nothing and the rest of us got the fact that SE itself told us it will be P2P.
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#33 Mar 26 2013 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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TOR devs said their game was not going F2P, it went F2P, just because a producer says something does not mean is set in stone, SE is a company out to make as much money as they can make, if they decide that F2P is the rout that will make them the most money in the end, they will go F2P. Not saying they are but to say THEY WILL NOT 100% is Stupid.

Also please whoever said Yoshi should be the CEO.... Please stop.
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#34 Mar 26 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well Yoshi said it will be P2P but he didn't say it will be forever but the fact remains that it will be P2P when it launches. Only if it fails in getting enough subscriber it will go F2P and i bet my money on it.

And either the companies are stupid or it is actually more profitable to start P2P . Of course that requires subscribers and when there arent many they turn to F2P.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 1:07pm by Teravibe
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#35 Mar 26 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Default
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Teravibe wrote:
Well Yoshi said it will be P2P


It's not necessarily up to him. If his superiors want to launch ARR with a free-to-play model of some sort, he will have to comply.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 1:13pm by Killua125
#36 Mar 26 2013 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
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Ok lets look at the facts shall we?

a) We got the lead dev of the game saying that it will be P2P . He obviously learned it from SE itself.

b) The game is in beta that means its nearly done. Do you actually think that SE will say at this time i want it to go F2P. I will stop the beta re design parts of it to be able to go F2P and by doing that slowing the release date?

Last time i checked SE wanted to release the game as soon as possible not slow it down even more.

If a company makes a fool out of its lead dev that wont be good for their image. They will lose even greater number of fans/players however you wonna call them.

Its delusional to even think at this moment that it will go F2P from the start.

As we take a look at the facts that i gave we can clearly see that no man in its right mind will decide to go F2P now.

Somehow i believe that no matter how many times i say it, someone will still tell me something along the lines of "yea.....but it might", so ill say this once more, yea it might but only if the P2P fails to attract enough subscribers.

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 1:26pm by Teravibe
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#37 Mar 26 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Also you have to remember Yoshi said to have a MMO be F2P it has to be developed with that in mind.. You can take a game that was developed and meant to be P2P and at launch make it F2P.. It wasnt built for it. So for release im confident it will be P2P... I dont see a new president walking in and taking a game that was designed for P2P and say release it as F2P happenin! They would basicaly have to redo a bunch of crap to the game spending more money and the release date pushed further back wasting time that could have been sub fees in their pocket.. Just dont see it.. Like Wint, F2P leave a bad taste in my mouth. To me MMOs that are F2P are like prostitues on the corner. Pay everything up front to get all the goods right now! Whereas Final Fantasy is more classy and doesnt deserve a quick bam bam thank you ma'am but instead a relationship and experience that is lasting. Hmm.. idk where that came from.. LOL. erm! Point is.. A MMO worth anything (Like FFXIV) should have time invested. Not just, "I pay to be stronger and experience content faster!" But something more steady as in I pay my simple monthly fee and have access to all the wonders of the FF world with an equal opportunity as the next without having to spend loads more just to get ahead.
#38 Mar 26 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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You guys are forgetting Yoshi isn't just a producer, he's been promoted to Corporate Executive. He has a little more pull than I think you think he has.

TOR went F2P because they had investors to satisfy, FFXIV has no such requirement.
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#39 Mar 26 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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F2P has more short term profits, but the gravy train ends in 1-2 years.

P2P is more long term profits, providing a ROI for a decade or more for games that make it.
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#40 Mar 26 2013 at 12:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:


Now whoever becomes CEO, needs to release FF Type 0


This, for chrissakes, this

Wint wrote:


TOR went F2P because they had investors to satisfy, FFXIV has no such requirement.


When did SE stop being a publicly traded company?

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 11:30am by Olorinus
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#41 Mar 26 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Simply put a new MMO customer has to ask themselves.

Why should I pay monthly, every...single month for a game when I can play another one that is very similar for nothing at all. Can anyone list a reason they should? Just being a FF title isn't enough anymore.

This is how most mmo players think these days.




Edited, Mar 26th 2013 2:48pm by preludes
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#42 Mar 26 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
Simply put a new MMO customer has to ask themselves.

Why should I pay monthly, every...single month for a game when I can play another one that is very similar for nothing at all. Can anyone list a reason they should? Just being a FF title isn't enough anymore.


Because it keeps the 13 year old script kiddies OUT OF THE GAME.
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#43 Mar 26 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Also, I'm sorry if it seems like I'm attacking you here, but I'm just tired of this argument and I'd rather discuss more fun things than the current financial state of Square Enix. I don't think they're going anywhere, and if they ever needed to drum up some cash they could always fall back on finally remaking Final Fantasy VII Smiley: tongue


Now if only they would release a sizable amount of info about Phase 1 then maybe we would have something to actually talk about u.u. Also, at this point I'm not so sure i want a remake of VII or any of the old games for that matter. I've seen what they did with Crisis Core and FFXIII and I just feel like it would be terrible with their current mindset. Besides, Cloud's polygonal hands being as big as his head has a nostalgic value no amount of state of the art 3d rendering could come close to.


I don't think that new management is going to effect the release of FFXIV in any way. I would think that they learned their lesson with 1.0 and I'm sure they like the positive feedback Yoshi has gotten. I doubt they would mess with a good thing a second time.

And I'm sure that FFXIV will make plenty of money for them as P2P. Even if they don't recoup losses on it for 5+ years if it is a quality game it will begin to repair fan loyalty to the name and bring in more future revenue. Besides, if after 11 years FFXI is making enough money to warrant the creation and release of another full blooded expansion, then it must not take that many subscribers in the grand scheme of things to be profitable on this model...Even if the release of SoA was simply a way to keep FFMMO players interested after the flop of 1.0...
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#44 Mar 26 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
preludes wrote:
Simply put a new MMO customer has to ask themselves.

Why should I pay monthly, every...single month for a game when I can play another one that is very similar for nothing at all. Can anyone list a reason they should? Just being a FF title isn't enough anymore.


Because it keeps the 13 year old script kiddies OUT OF THE GAME.


Not the only reason but you are so right!
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#45 Mar 26 2013 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:

Wint wrote:


TOR went F2P because they had investors to satisfy, FFXIV has no such requirement.


When did SE stop being a publicly traded company?

Edited, Mar 26th 2013 11:30am by Olorinus


Smiley: rolleyes
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#46 Mar 26 2013 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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preludes wrote:
Simply put a new MMO customer has to ask themselves.

Why should I pay monthly, every...single month for a game when I can play another one that is very similar for nothing at all. Can anyone list a reason they should? Just being a FF title isn't enough anymore.

This is how most mmo players think these days.


I love Angry Joe and he was a deciding factor in me picking up GW2 but he is by no means a true MMO player. He is a complete Casual, as made obvious by some of his other videos. He plays multiple ones for a couple months and then drops them. He also comes from the XBox generation so his tastes are quite different than most of us MMO players. Yes GW2 might appeal to a larger audience being F2P but it still doesn't make it any less boring to play for me. It's sad but I've actually heard people get surprised when they got close to max level and realized there was no end game content.

With P2P today you get constant content updates, I mean ****, look at 1.0 and the amount of crap they released in about a year's time. If they weren't focused on fixing a broken game just think of what they could have produced in patches. GW2 has had one big patch since I bought it around 4 months ago and all they did was fix arbitrary crap, balance stuff, and add more useless crap to the gem shop. Paying a subscription fee allows companies to provide more content and new stuff a lot faster than the F2P model, if they even add anything at all. I mean look at WoW. It got to the point that every 2 weeks to a month they were adding new stuff, with major new content being thrown in every couple months. SE will have to do this to make that subscription worth paying and I'm pretty sure they know that. If F2P is the road companies take to pay back shareholders, I don't see much surplus remaining there to put toward a constant flow of content.

That kind of gets me back to the Casual player vs Serious player mentality. A casual player won't have an issue with a F2P model that doesn't add new content more than once or twice a year, while a more serious player will need that content to keep their interest in the game. Those casual players will hop onto the next big thing and leave the game with even less of a source of income.
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#47 Mar 26 2013 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
You guys are forgetting Yoshi isn't just a producer, he's been promoted to Corporate Executive. He has a little more pull than I think you think he has.

TOR went F2P because they had investors to satisfy, FFXIV has no such requirement.


Which is mind boggling, the guy has 0 merits under his belt, all he has done is take tanaka's already planned updates and release them under his reign as producer.... Oh and writte letters that 90% of the time contain little to no information on what is to come, it's always i am sick, or i did this, blablabla oh and 1.0 was so bad we had to do this blablabla we get it already Yoshi! 1.0 was horrible, we know it, the world knows it, now how about some inside information on ARR ?

Also Square-Enix has shareholders :)
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#48 Mar 26 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
You guys are forgetting Yoshi isn't just a producer, he's been promoted to Corporate Executive. He has a little more pull than I think you think he has.

TOR went F2P because they had investors to satisfy, FFXIV has no such requirement.


Which is mind boggling, the guy has 0 merits under his belt, all he has done is take tanaka's already planned updates and release them under his reign as producer.... Oh and writte letters that 90% of the time contain little to no information on what is to come, it's always i am sick, or i did this, blablabla oh and 1.0 was so bad we had to do this blablabla we get it already Yoshi! 1.0 was horrible, we know it, the world knows it, now how about some inside information on ARR ?

Also Square-Enix has shareholders :)


So working in the industry since 1993 and working on games like Dragonquest are 0 merits? Whatever man.

Also you know that SE's development of XIV is nothing like Bioware and EA's arrangement on SWOTR.
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#49 Mar 26 2013 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
You guys are forgetting Yoshi isn't just a producer, he's been promoted to Corporate Executive. He has a little more pull than I think you think he has.

TOR went F2P because they had investors to satisfy, FFXIV has no such requirement.


Which is mind boggling, the guy has 0 merits under his belt, all he has done is take tanaka's already planned updates and release them under his reign as producer.... Oh and writte letters that 90% of the time contain little to no information on what is to come, it's always i am sick, or i did this, blablabla oh and 1.0 was so bad we had to do this blablabla we get it already Yoshi! 1.0 was horrible, we know it, the world knows it, now how about some inside information on ARR ?

Also Square-Enix has shareholders :)


So working in the industry since 1993 and working on games like Dragonquest are 0 merits? Whatever man.

Also you know that SE's development of XIV is nothing like Bioware and EA's arrangement on SWOTR.


The dude worked on Bomberman man.... And worked on DQ in 2004 and not even DQ the main series, Dragon Quest Monster Battle Road game.... was the lead game designer for DQX a main entry into the series.... and that game was Garbage! No DQ game has sold less than a million DQX has sold 600K and it was released a year ago Smiley: lol Listen i like the guy, i think that he is awesome as a human being, but as a game producer, he is untested, as a game designer, as showned in DQX, he flat out sucks, as a PR person he is amazing, and that is his forte, but to make him an excecutive ? Hahaha Please! Look at development team 3 which he is the head for, name me one game Yoshi has produced or been involved in, that is better than any of those :)
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#50 Mar 26 2013 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:


Did you just suggest that Yoshi-P take over Square Enix?

Developing for a few games doesn't make you qualified to run a giant company. Square Enix does western and Japanese games, anime, manga, toys, etc.



- And are notoriously terrible at public relations.

I don't throw Yoshida's name into the hat for his gaming background. I throw it in for his business policy. The open ended, earnest and active approach that FFXIV is having is his direct influence. Had anyone else in Square Enix taken over the project I severely doubt that we would have as open a window in FFXIV as we do now.

Corporate management is something you gain from experience, you deny someone the opportunity to be at the helm and you deny that experience.

That said, it's Yoshida's policies I want adapted into the Presidential position, not necessarily Yoshida. SE needs to open up, and get a closer relationship with their fans.
#51 Mar 26 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Hyrist wrote:
Killua125 wrote:


Did you just suggest that Yoshi-P take over Square Enix?

Developing for a few games doesn't make you qualified to run a giant company. Square Enix does western and Japanese games, anime, manga, toys, etc.



That said, it's Yoshida's policies I want adapted into the Presidential position, not necessarily Yoshida. SE needs to open up, and get a closer relationship with their fans.


I can agree with that much.
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