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#152 Mar 27 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Teravibe wrote:
Lol did someone actually mentioned DLCs? Dlcs were made in an effort to leech money from the players. The fact that there are people buying them doesn't mean its "better" for the players. What was the game that had the dlc pre installed in the game but was locked till the company "release" it and you buy it? I can't remember.

Anyway enough with the off topic from my behalf.

My opinion is that F2P games are not better for the players as someone mentioned. Well...i am not 100% right there. What i should say is that F2P is not better for players like me or from what i read Thayos or catwho etc for reasons listed in previous posts. On the other hand F2P is also good for players probably like you for the "benefits" that can provide like playing for free.

It all comes down in what you really like for me its always P2P.


Street Fighter X Tekken, Mass Effect 3, Marvel vs. Capcom 3 to name a few. Capcom is very guilty of this. There is nothing a company can say to spin this. If it's made, and it's on the disk, why are we being charged extra at a later date?
#153 Mar 27 2013 at 6:21 PM Rating: Default
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kainsilv wrote:
Is anyone posting here not going to play FFXIV:ARR because Yoshi has said it will be P2P? I'd really like to collect some data on the types of people who are most upset it is P2P. All this chatter has me curious. I also wonder if Yoshi hasn't seen similar statistics and based his decision off said data.

I also find it curious that even though many MMOs in the last couple years have gone F2P many started out P2P. If F2P is superior why do all these games keep attempting to have a go at P2P?

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:05pm by kainsilv


Oh, plenty of people. Tons of people will not give a subscription game a chance. You probably won't find them on this forum or the official forum, though.
#154 Mar 27 2013 at 6:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Good thing they have Phase 4 to try the game for free to decide.
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#155 Mar 27 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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preludes wrote:
catwho wrote:
Tera was planned and released as P2P which is why it's AAA quality.

It went F2P because the people who pay for P2P games (i.e. the 30+ gamers) generally thought it was awful and not worth the fee. As someone on Reddit put it, it was "a great fighting game built around an MMO I don't want to play." I think it was a market disconnect more than anything. The 15 year old male demographic probably ate it up, but they're not the market that pays monthly fees. I'm a gal - I found the jiggle physics offensive and wanted to take the poor naked females shopping at Target for real clothes.

Penny Arcade also explains why many games go FTP...


So you find XIV ARR offensive too? You know they added jiggle to that to appeal to those same gamers and most of the outfits on females are half naked right? Heck didn't you play FFXI too? Pretty sure most of the armors there were half naked too.


Are you sure? Or are you pretty sure? Because I'm male, I obviously didn't take umbrage to the lack of coverage on the female in Tera. I don't believe you can honestly compare Tera and Final Fantasy XI/XIV in regards to nudity. It would be like comparing soft core to hardcore, and calling it the same. There are about 4 pieces of **** apparel in FFXIV, both male and female. (Most of the outfits I'm sure...) Try to stick to facts sir. Remove the emotional cloud.
#156 Mar 27 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Atkascha wrote:
S-E are not greedy, given their current track record with...


I guess you haven't seen this

Quote:
Nostalgia is a powerful thing. Especially video game nostalgia, since you have a memory of actively participating in these epic moments. I’m the one that cleared the ice cave in Final Fantasy. I’m the one that climbed the ShinRa tower in Final Fantasy VII. The Black Mage’s sprite, the battle victory fanfare… these things are part of our collective shared experiences.

Final Fantasy All the Bravest exploits these feelings of nostalgia in almost the most cynical way possible. Outside of its nostalgia points (which are significant), it has no redeeming qualities. It barely qualifies as a video game. It’s a fireworks display – a lightshow – comprised of Cloud Strife, Kefka, Meteor spells and Cactuars. All designed to extract money with ruthless efficiency.


Yeah sounds like a company that's putting the feelings of fans over profits.

Now let's be clear, I don't fault them for it, cause if they don't make money they go out of business, and if they go out of business they can't make games, and I am still hopeful for them to make some good new final fantasy games (hopefully ARR is one of them)

But you don't do your argument any credit when you act as though they are putting out this game as a charity. They aren't. They are putting it out because having a mainline final fantasy languish as a steaming pile of unloved garbage would be a massive black eye on the company. They are trying to make the best of the black eye they have.

But don't for one minute imagine means that they won't find ways to squeeze money out of this project.
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#157 Mar 27 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Default
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swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


Some people like to actually eat their own waste.... FFXIII series is a stain on FF legacy, FFXIII is as different from FFXIII-2 as FFVI is from FFVIII, the stoy in XIII-2 made no sense whatsoever if you actually played XIII, there is no coherence in the two of them, is like if you where watching evangelion, and midway it turns into dragon ball z, and you are just like WTF! Did shinji just went SSJ ? How ? Why ? Because Paradox!

Also FFXIII-2 sold half of what XIII did, also as you noted, you are happy with subpar quality, fine for you, but that was not what FF was all about :)
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#158 Mar 27 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Tons of people will not give a subscription game a chance.


A lot of these people would hardly pay anything through a cash shop, either.

Not saying F2P isn't profitable -- it seems to be much more profitable in the short term -- but SE is clearly planning FFXIV for the long haul. They need to make money for their shareholders, but shareholders aren't business partners. Shareholders are in this for the long haul too, and they'll be better off with profits over time. Meanwhile, SE doesn't need to repay investors (business partners) for development costs, because ARR was handled in house... so there's no external pressure to go F2P, which is a big problem with other games... hence the cash grab.

Given how quickly F2P games tend to fade away, it just seems that a P2P game with a significantly smaller population would be far more profitable after several years because EVERYONE is paying into it.
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#159 Mar 27 2013 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
Given how quickly F2P games tend to fade away, it just seems that a P2P game with a significantly smaller population would be far more profitable after several years because EVERYONE is paying into it.


Hmm, that model sounds a lot like FFXI, which just so happens to be the most profitable Final Fantasy game ever...
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#160 Mar 27 2013 at 7:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Yep, great point, Kane!

And I'm sure SE would love nothing more than to repeat the financial success of XI.
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#161 Mar 27 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Given how quickly F2P games tend to fade away, it just seems that a P2P game with a significantly smaller population would be far more profitable after several years because EVERYONE is paying into it.


Hmm, that model sounds a lot like FFXI, which just so happens to be the most profitable Final Fantasy game ever...


To be fair, gaming (especially MMO gaming) was in an entirely different place when Final Fantasy XI released, became popular, and gained most of it's long-term user base. There's really no guarantee that they can repeat something like XI in 2013. People didn't really have any options but to pay monthly back then.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 9:54pm by Killua125
#162 Mar 27 2013 at 8:10 PM Rating: Default
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I am genuinely concerned for the future of Final Fantasy titles. If, not that it will, but if FFXIV 2.0 fails, it will be very hard for me, as I'm sure many others will agree, to get back into another FF game. Maybe FFXIV 2.0 will fail and in a last ditch effort to save the franchise Square will finally redo FFVII for Ps4 ;)
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#163 Mar 27 2013 at 8:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think it's interesting that people who want to pay a subscription fee today was called the "minority" earlier in the thread. The people that sub WoW clearly makes that untrue. Yes, WoW is successful, even if I don't particularly enjoy that game. People WILL pay for quality. Therefore, I can only conclude that, the payment model depends on the quality of game. If you have a ****** game with cheap thrills for a short journey, F2P is your financial ticket. It's why the acronym F2P brings up that feeling. This misguided idea that "the people" don't want to pay sounds silly. DLC would have ended a long time ago.

When you purchase a season pass for a single player game with some multiplayer functions, they usually ask for a flat fee of around 20-50 dollars. If you purchase the DLC separately, you'd probably spend twice as much. Therefore, it comes down to the company convincing us that it's a worthwhile investment. For an extremely popular game, it's an easy sell. If the devs deliver on quality, the fans are more than willing to invest knowing that they'll get the future updates etc for "free." My point is, that initial all encompassing fee is the consumer's way of telling the devs, "I trust that you'll deliver." It's better to get people to pay for it all upfront, than to release one at a time and have the sales fluctuate negatively in the long run. *Obvious right?* There are people who don't care about MP and won't pay for it. In the end, it's up to the consumer to evaluate his spending and decide if he'll stick around long enough to get his money's worth.

This brings me to the P2P model. Every time you pay that monthly fee, you do it because you are satisfied with the quality you receive. Every month, your payment tells the devs that you want to be there. When a company stops getting that fee from a large percentage of it's subscribers, that tells them, people don't want to be there. *Obvious right?* So, my question is, on what planet is a free to play model a good sign? Good things are almost never free, and free things are almost never good. What's convincing people to passionately defend that business model? Free to play right out of the gate, gives the impression that your content won't be supported by a p2p model. Therefore you must rely on micro-transactions to make money.

What the Free to play advocates have stated clearly, was their uncertainty in FFXIV:ARR succes. *Obvious right?* Therefore, they aren't satisfied with the quality of the FFXIV product and don't feel comfortable paying the fee. I can only conclude *Opinion alert* that they want to experience all the game has to offer, without a financial loss. They aren't willing to take that risk. They bring up all these points about whales, casual buyers, and freeloaders. Is it just me, or don't they already sound like they're probably going to fit into the freeloader demographic?

I can understand that a person wont spend money on something they don't like. Asking for it to be free because you aren't comfortable with it is quite selfish. Trying to convince people who like it that it should be free is silly. "I hear it wasn't a good movie anyway, so I'll just torrent it. Won't waste my money." *Justified!*

Let's be real, OK? Paying to get ahead works in real life. Humans compete, they want to be the best. People have proven over and over, that they're comfortable spending real money for fake virtual items. Free to Play will always go down that road in an MMO, because people always want an advantage or the appearance of prestige. "Pre order at gamestop and get the the exclusive Blah blah blah that makes you blah blah blah. Gamestop power to the players Smiley: rolleyes"

Believe whatever you want, but we know that money will increase the quality of the game *Obvious yea?*. It's what we ALL want. To create a cash shop that increases the game quality would have to convince people that they should spend A LOT of money. The easiest way to do that is to give them advantages. Even if the advantages are slight, the person with most money will just buy more slight advantages, making it not so slight anymore. Stop pretending you care about the gaming community and the success of FFXIV. You don't think the game is worth your money. We get it. People want fun, and people want quality. Paying to win is empty (and that's saying something, because how much is is being the best in an MMO worth IRL), and it's exactly where F2P in an MMO ends up.

I started Tera for a month last year, and found out something I didn't know existed. There is an item token of some kind, that people can buy for real money, and sell it to other players for in game money to extend their playtime another month. I have several awful/emotion/hateful experiences with RMT. *@#&^$# Argus and #$*#$&9 Mee Deggi the Punisher and whatever... too many others. Those #$#$ suckers #$#@#.Smiley: mad Anway... That system reminded me of that. At first, I was against it. Then it hit me, the money goes to Square-Enix, and it would ***** over those Gil sellers, but wont wipe them out completely. In some ways, for those people who spend time farming in game money to extend play time, it's Free to play. They are at a disadvantage because they have to sacrifice their earnings while the regular subs don't. Their character development is slowed. That's the only "F2P" model that I MIGHT agree with. Only because I've come to accept that the farmers will always exist. SE should get in that market, if that money is then used to increase FFXIV's quality.

Hmmm. That was longer than I intended.Smiley: blush I don't remember a time when I've used the word "quality" that much either.
#164 Mar 27 2013 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Hmm, that model sounds a lot like FFXI, which just so happens to be the most profitable Final Fantasy game ever...


To be fair, gaming (especially MMO gaming) was in an entirely different place when Final Fantasy XI released, became popular, and gained most of it's long-term user base. There's really no guarantee that they can repeat something like XI in 2013. People didn't really have any options but to pay monthly back then.


There were only subscription options in 2004?
And 2006?
And 2008?
And 2010?
And 2012?
And into the game's fifth expansion later this year?

Of course there's no guarantee that the same thing can be repeated in 2013 -- saying so is pointless, though, as there's never a guarantee (especially in the realm of MMORPGs). The point is that FFXI is still going on, still making a profit for the company.

It doesn't take very many committed players to generate a significant amount of money and make a game worth keeping; even 500k subscribers -- quite modest by today's inflated standards -- makes 90 million dollars a year before upkeep costs. The revenue generated is as though, every few months, every one of those subscribers buys a new SE game, and with good retention that pattern continues for years upon years. There's a level of consistency that should not be ignored in favour of the spike-and-crash profits of the "free" to play method.
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#165 Mar 27 2013 at 9:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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XI's 5th expansion hit today, actually. I got locked out of the friggin log in server because so many people were slamming it. I gave up and messed around with my new 5.1 speakers (purchased for ARR...) instead.

Took me three hours to get them working. Dumb Windows 8.
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#166 Mar 27 2013 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Hmmm, 5.1 speakers...
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#167 Mar 27 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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They are smexy and I luff them.

Even if I did have to manually install a codec for my on board sound for them to work.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#168 Mar 27 2013 at 9:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Surround sound is one of the reasons why I'm excited for the ps3 version! I got a nice setup for my living room awhile back.
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#169 Mar 27 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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I really just needed something better than the $11 basic PC speakers I had from Logitech. I'm no audiophile, but I could tell those things were crap.

Even for stuff that can't take advantage of all six speakers (like FFXI) the sound quality is drastically improved.
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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#170 Mar 27 2013 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
The sad truth is that whether games are P2P or FtP or even B2P, the composition of the overall gaming population is different from what it was a decade ago. This stems from changes on sociological forces as much as anything else. We live in a world of instant gratification, where everything we could every want is just a click away. A new TV, a trip to Hawaii, a new car, **** even a new girlfriend can all be acquired by a few clicks of the mouse and minimal time. When we're not at home next to our computer? No problem! There's an app for that. The generation of people born since the 70's was also largely raised hearing things like "You can do whatever you want to do." We want what we want, when we want it, after only putting in as much work as we want to provide, not as much as is required.

This has been translated to gaming as well.

"I want to play this game. I don't want to pay for it, but I still want all the shinies. To get shinies, I can either pay some money for it, or grind for a few months. I guess I could... Oh hey! NEW GAME WITH NEWER SHINY STUFF! Huh? You want me to pay you some money for this? Meh."

I think we "old fashioned" gamers need to accept that the kids now run the world, and it's slowly being destroyed Smiley: tongue For us to get what we want out of an MMO, we're going to have to hope that companies realize that MMO's are not the gauranteed cash cow that they are hoping for. They need to realize that there is a huge possibility that there will never be another WoW and start developing games for smaller niche markets, hoping for long term success. Develop a game and plan for 500k subs at $14.99 and you'll bring in almost $8mil a month. Tell me that won't be deemed successful. I look at video games the same way I look at professional sports. Want to know why the Yankees have been so successful over the last century? They run their baseball team like a baseball team, not like a business. If they need that shortstop to be a contender, then they go get that shortstop and deal with the financial intricacies later. Hedge funds need to get out of the video game business.
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#171 Mar 27 2013 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


Some people like to actually eat their own waste.... FFXIII series is a stain on FF legacy, FFXIII is as different from FFXIII-2 as FFVI is from FFVIII, the stoy in XIII-2 made no sense whatsoever if you actually played XIII, there is no coherence in the two of them, is like if you where watching evangelion, and midway it turns into dragon ball z, and you are just like WTF! Did shinji just went SSJ ? How ? Why ? Because Paradox!

Also FFXIII-2 sold half of what XIII did, also as you noted, you are happy with subpar quality, fine for you, but that was not what FF was all about :)


Honestly, like I said, everyone has their own opinion about what they think the FF games should be like. I was just giving mine. I liked the games. That's all I was saying. I tried giving some reasoning as to why I thought that way.

I didn't really see any reasoning behind your opinion other than the stories didn't make sense from one game to the other, so I was just curious to see what the sales figures were for each game in the FF series. I saw that XIII was the 2nd best selling game in the entire franchise. Looking at that alone makes it difficult to see how it's considered a failure in the majority of FF fans. I understand that these sales numbers don't necessarily reflect the attitude toward those players after they played it, but it's not like they sold this many on the first day and then people just stopped buying it. By word of mouth alone, like we saw of FFXIV, I would think that if the majority of players weren't satisfied with the game I would think that the sales figures would be much lower. If I am to assume if XIII is a stain on the FF legacy, then wouldn't it be logical, by numbers alone, that every other FF title in the history of the franchise is also a stain other than VII? It's the only game that has sold more copies in it's lifetime.

I'm just curious of what your reasoning is behind not liking XIII and XIII-2 other than "the stories don't make sense." I respect your opinion, but please don't act like mine is wrong just because you disagree.
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#172 Mar 27 2013 at 11:27 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
I am genuinely concerned for the future of Final Fantasy titles. If, not that it will, but if FFXIV 2.0 fails, it will be very hard for me, as I'm sure many others will agree, to get back into another FF game. Maybe FFXIV 2.0 will fail and in a last ditch effort to save the franchise Square will finally redo FFVII for Ps4 ;)


Personally, if ARR tanks, it wont keep me from playing later FF titles. I separate the MMO titles from the single player console ones. It may make me think twice about building a new pc to try out the next MMO they come up with, but it wont stop me from being excited for the next single player one. I've read in magazine interviews that they WILL NOT remake VII until they've made another FF title with just as much if not more popularity/acclaim than VII did. This pretty much seems like an impossible task with the way people are feeling about the franchise currently. It would awsome sauce to have it remade in all its HD goodness, but it's something I've come to terms with and have adopted the "I'll believe it when I see it" mentality.
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#173 Mar 28 2013 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Hmm, that model sounds a lot like FFXI, which just so happens to be the most profitable Final Fantasy game ever...


To be fair, gaming (especially MMO gaming) was in an entirely different place when Final Fantasy XI released, became popular, and gained most of it's long-term user base. There's really no guarantee that they can repeat something like XI in 2013. People didn't really have any options but to pay monthly back then.


There were only subscription options in 2004?
And 2006?
And 2008?
And 2010?
And 2012?
And into the game's fifth expansion later this year?

Of course there's no guarantee that the same thing can be repeated in 2013 -- saying so is pointless, though, as there's never a guarantee (especially in the realm of MMORPGs). The point is that FFXI is still going on, still making a profit for the company.

It doesn't take very many committed players to generate a significant amount of money and make a game worth keeping; even 500k subscribers -- quite modest by today's inflated standards -- makes 90 million dollars a year before upkeep costs. The revenue generated is as though, every few months, every one of those subscribers buys a new SE game, and with good retention that pattern continues for years upon years. There's a level of consistency that should not be ignored in favour of the spike-and-crash profits of the "free" to play method.



That is kind of a biased argument, because by that time, you already had built an attachment to a character and community, there is a reason why XI and WOW are still viable games 10 years later, i for example continued to pay for WOW 8 months into cata, even tho i quit a 2 months after it, becuase i had an attachment, not because the game was good.
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#174 Mar 28 2013 at 12:39 AM Rating: Good
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People abandon ship in MMOs all the time. The question is whether they come back, and often times they do.

Young people are not such victims of impulse that they can't delay gratification as many people seem to think. They're as capable of persevering towards a goal as you or I, if perhaps a bit less masochistic about it.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#175 Mar 28 2013 at 12:39 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Hmm, that model sounds a lot like FFXI, which just so happens to be the most profitable Final Fantasy game ever...


To be fair, gaming (especially MMO gaming) was in an entirely different place when Final Fantasy XI released, became popular, and gained most of it's long-term user base. There's really no guarantee that they can repeat something like XI in 2013. People didn't really have any options but to pay monthly back then.


There were only subscription options in 2004?
And 2006?
And 2008?
And 2010?
And 2012?
And into the game's fifth expansion later this year?

Of course there's no guarantee that the same thing can be repeated in 2013 -- saying so is pointless, though, as there's never a guarantee (especially in the realm of MMORPGs). The point is that FFXI is still going on, still making a profit for the company.

It doesn't take very many committed players to generate a significant amount of money and make a game worth keeping; even 500k subscribers -- quite modest by today's inflated standards -- makes 90 million dollars a year before upkeep costs. The revenue generated is as though, every few months, every one of those subscribers buys a new SE game, and with good retention that pattern continues for years upon years. There's a level of consistency that should not be ignored in favour of the spike-and-crash profits of the "free" to play method.



That is kind of a biased argument, because by that time, you already had built an attachment to a character and community, there is a reason why XI and WOW are still viable games 10 years later, i for example continued to pay for WOW 8 months into cata, even tho i quit a 2 months after it, becuase i had an attachment, not because the game was good.


You didn't have to pay for the game to keep your character. Unless I'm mistaken and your character gets deleted after you unsub. Sounds like poor money management on your part. It also shows that paying your sub fees, even though you weren't playing, wasn't an issue for you. People will spend money over silly reasons.Smiley: lol The argument can be made, that the subscription fee is so small, a person will pay for half a year without even playing.
#176 Mar 28 2013 at 1:02 AM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


Some people like to actually eat their own waste.... FFXIII series is a stain on FF legacy, FFXIII is as different from FFXIII-2 as FFVI is from FFVIII, the stoy in XIII-2 made no sense whatsoever if you actually played XIII, there is no coherence in the two of them, is like if you where watching evangelion, and midway it turns into dragon ball z, and you are just like WTF! Did shinji just went SSJ ? How ? Why ? Because Paradox!

Also FFXIII-2 sold half of what XIII did, also as you noted, you are happy with subpar quality, fine for you, but that was not what FF was all about :)


Honestly, like I said, everyone has their own opinion about what they think the FF games should be like. I was just giving mine. I liked the games. That's all I was saying. I tried giving some reasoning as to why I thought that way.

I didn't really see any reasoning behind your opinion other than the stories didn't make sense from one game to the other, so I was just curious to see what the sales figures were for each game in the FF series. I saw that XIII was the 2nd best selling game in the entire franchise. Looking at that alone makes it difficult to see how it's considered a failure in the majority of FF fans. I understand that these sales numbers don't necessarily reflect the attitude toward those players after they played it, but it's not like they sold this many on the first day and then people just stopped buying it. By word of mouth alone, like we saw of FFXIV, I would think that if the majority of players weren't satisfied with the game I would think that the sales figures would be much lower. If I am to assume if XIII is a stain on the FF legacy, then wouldn't it be logical, by numbers alone, that every other FF title in the history of the franchise is also a stain other than VII? It's the only game that has sold more copies in it's lifetime.

I'm just curious of what your reasoning is behind not liking XIII and XIII-2 other than "the stories don't make sense." I respect your opinion, but please don't act like mine is wrong just because you disagree.


Ok i will try explain it the best i can.

To understand the success of FFXIII, you have to look at a trend, the first FF title in a console generation, will always outsell the following titles in the same generation for example IV,VII,X,XIII. This is no mere coincidence, most FF fans are eager to buy the new title for the new console, as are RPG fans in general, because of the upgrade in graphics and the gap in time between the last title and the new One. XIII did sold 6+ million copies, nothing to sneeze at, but the backlash from the community was something never seen before, i bought the game when it released, and i returned it, i have never returned a FF title EVER! Not even X! Also if you check XIII-2 did not even came close to selling the same numbers XIII did, why did it not ? It was created with the full intent of being everything XIII was not, it was a redeem title, yet half the people ignored it, it was so bad that on release day, Tales of grace beat XIII-2 on sales, something that has never happened, and should have never happened.

Now on to why i did not liked XIII, well for one the story pace was horrible, the game was linear as ****, no world map, summons where some kind of transformers, the characters where horrible, vanille was more annoying than yuna, snow was some idiot, and hope was a crybaby, the only character that i liked was sach or whatever his name is, he was cool, and realistic, everyody else was so over the top, and lighting was a clone of Cloud! If i wanted to play cloud, i would play VII or crisis core, also combat was so boring, it brought me to tears, just X X X X X X X X clear a stage, next X X X X X clear another stange, watch a CG, XXXXX, watch another CG, XXXXXX watch another CG, it felt like a movie, i was just hitting X to see what happens next, and what happened next was boring, the story line was presented in a way that was bland and boring, i really did not care, all this nonesense about Lcie and Icie or whatever was just stupid, so the big bad guys like orphan and whatever they are called falcie or something, where taking care of humans in the hope of having their creator come back right ? But wait in XIII-2 that is thrown out of the window, now is some valhalla **** brough from valkyrie profile, and lighting is lennet ? Wait WHAT ? When did this happened ? When was time travel and paradoxes ever an issue or a topic in the original game ? NOWHERE! But ok whatever so this bad guy with a big sword, has always been present and has had to watch this little girl die over and over.... Hmm i dont recall them in the original game.... I mean like it was not even sugested... But ok.... so we got some time paradoxes and now we can travel back and forth but is all irrelevant because if you fix a timeline, the messed up one continues anyways and creates a new fixed one, so now we got a messed up one and a fixed one, geez that sounds like some Chrono cross copy paste stuff right there.

Anyways really the game was just pathetic, Play Xenogears, now that is a real game.
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#177Ostia, Posted: Mar 28 2013 at 1:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Considering how horribe play online was/is i would have never unsubed if i had to go thru that **** again to sub <.<
#178 Mar 28 2013 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
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I guess that's it. FtP*: dismissed.

* free to play unless you want to play the whole game
#179 Mar 28 2013 at 2:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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GDLYL wrote:
GDLYL's beefy post.


GDLYL has slain the thread.
GDLYL gains 9001 experience points.
GDLYL attains level BAUSS.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 4:36am by DamienSScott
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#180 Mar 28 2013 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
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DamienSScott wrote:
GDLYL wrote:
GDLYL's beefy post.


GDLYL has slain the thread.
GDLYL gains 9001 experience points.
GDLYL attains level BAUSS.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 4:36am by DamienSScott


Lol!
http://www.9wtf.com/uploads/Meme-Like-A-Boss-res.jpg
#181 Mar 28 2013 at 10:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
If anything, SE needs to "go back" to doing what made them great in the first place, not continue to "move forward" with the same tactics that have been consistently failing for them.
The problem is ... that was never true. People pick one or two titles and decide "this is what the franchise is all about!" and then complain that anything different is wrong. Ignoring Final Fantasy 1 since it's the start, we have 2 where stats were based off usage (where you could have 9,999 hit points before leaving the first area), 3 had the variable job system, 4 allowed five members instead of four and introduced the Active Time Battle system, 5 brought back 3's variable jobs but allowed you to mix and match abilities, 6 introduced a massive group and multi-party gameplay, 7 introduced controllable Limit Breaks and basically completely customizable characters, 8 the Draw system, 9 was where you learned abilities and spells exclusively through equipment, 10 was the grid sphere, 11 was retarded AI playing with other human players on a global scale, 12 was gambits and AI controlled party members, and 13 was the extremely streamlined combat interface. Then you have sequels, and sub-franchise like Tactics and Adventures, so on and so forth.

Then you have Chrono Trigger with a multitude of different endings, Xenogears with it's interactive combat interface, Secret of Mana being multiple players ... well, this just isn't a company that became what it was by sticking to a formula.

Did from memory. Most likely missed some more or less obvious changes between one game to the next. These were just the ones I remembered.
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#182 Mar 28 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
If anything, SE needs to "go back" to doing what made them great in the first place, not continue to "move forward" with the same tactics that have been consistently failing for them.
The problem is ... that was never true. People pick one or two titles and decide "this is what the franchise is all about!" and then complain that anything different is wrong. Ignoring Final Fantasy 1 since it's the start, we have 2 where stats were based off usage (where you could have 9,999 hit points before leaving the first area), 3 had the variable job system, 4 allowed five members instead of four and introduced the Active Time Battle system, 5 brought back 3's variable jobs but allowed you to mix and match abilities, 6 introduced a massive group and multi-party gameplay, 7 introduced controllable Limit Breaks and basically completely customizable characters, 8 the Draw system, 9 was where you learned abilities and spells exclusively through equipment, 10 was the grid sphere, 11 was retarded AI playing with other human players on a global scale, 12 was gambits and AI controlled party members, and 13 was the extremely streamlined combat interface. Then you have sequels, and sub-franchise like Tactics and Adventures, so on and so forth.

Then you have Chrono Trigger with a multitude of different endings, Xenogears with it's interactive combat interface, Secret of Mana being multiple players ... well, this just isn't a company that became what it was by sticking to a formula.

Did from memory. Most likely missed some more or less obvious changes between one game to the next. These were just the ones I remembered.


I only really go to the FFXIV forums, but this is the first time I have seen a non-snark comment from lolgaxe. And it's a rate-up worthy non-snark comment.

I've slipped into another dimension, haven't I? Smiley: eek
#183 Mar 28 2013 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
If anything, SE needs to "go back" to doing what made them great in the first place, not continue to "move forward" with the same tactics that have been consistently failing for them.
The problem is ... that was never true. People pick one or two titles and decide "this is what the franchise is all about!" and then complain that anything different is wrong. Ignoring Final Fantasy 1 since it's the start, we have 2 where stats were based off usage (where you could have 9,999 hit points before leaving the first area), 3 had the variable job system, 4 allowed five members instead of four and introduced the Active Time Battle system, 5 brought back 3's variable jobs but allowed you to mix and match abilities, 6 introduced a massive group and multi-party gameplay, 7 introduced controllable Limit Breaks and basically completely customizable characters, 8 the Draw system, 9 was where you learned abilities and spells exclusively through equipment, 10 was the grid sphere, 11 was retarded AI playing with other human players on a global scale, 12 was gambits and AI controlled party members, and 13 was the extremely streamlined combat interface. Then you have sequels, and sub-franchise like Tactics and Adventures, so on and so forth.

Then you have Chrono Trigger with a multitude of different endings, Xenogears with it's interactive combat interface, Secret of Mana being multiple players ... well, this just isn't a company that became what it was by sticking to a formula.

Did from memory. Most likely missed some more or less obvious changes between one game to the next. These were just the ones I remembered.


Very interesting and true post. Thank you for reminding me that SE sold the awesome IP of Xenogears (WTF is a Xenosaga?), stopped making Chrono games, and stopped making good Mana games. And don't get me started on the horrible, unspeakable things they did with the awesome SaGa series.. Seriously, WTF was Unlimited SaGa and why did it violate my SaGa Frontier? That must have been the beginning of the cash grabbing days... and getting $8 for selling a new $50-$60 game at Gamestop. ; ;

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 1:41pm by DamienSScott
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#184 Mar 28 2013 at 11:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Actually Xenosaga was very good, 2 was forgettable, and 3 was somewhere between. I would give the original Xenosaga a shot, it's probably < $10 used these days now.
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#185 Mar 28 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Actually Xenosaga was very good, 2 was forgettable, and 3 was somewhere between. I would give the original Xenosaga a shot, it's probably < $10 used these days now.


I played through Episode One back when it came out. I liked it fine, but it definitely didn't have that Xenogears feel to it. I felt like they could have made that same game with a different title and it make more sense XD. I shall never stop kicking myself for not buying Xenogears from my video store when it was $10...
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FFXIV: Damien Scott Race: Duskwight Elezen GC: Limsa Lominsa Server: Ultros
DoW GLA50 ACN50 PUG50 MAR 50 Rest30+
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#186 Mar 28 2013 at 12:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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Were Xenogears and Xenosaga supposed to be related at all? If they were I definitely don't see how Smiley: laugh I hadn't played Xenogears before Xenosaga, so I really enjoyed myself.
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#187 Mar 28 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Xenosaga is the spiritual successor, and it was intended to be the prequels to Xenogears, but the two head guys left Square and developed it for Namco instead.
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#188 Mar 28 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Default
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DamienSScott wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
If anything, SE needs to "go back" to doing what made them great in the first place, not continue to "move forward" with the same tactics that have been consistently failing for them.
The problem is ... that was never true. People pick one or two titles and decide "this is what the franchise is all about!" and then complain that anything different is wrong. Ignoring Final Fantasy 1 since it's the start, we have 2 where stats were based off usage (where you could have 9,999 hit points before leaving the first area), 3 had the variable job system, 4 allowed five members instead of four and introduced the Active Time Battle system, 5 brought back 3's variable jobs but allowed you to mix and match abilities, 6 introduced a massive group and multi-party gameplay, 7 introduced controllable Limit Breaks and basically completely customizable characters, 8 the Draw system, 9 was where you learned abilities and spells exclusively through equipment, 10 was the grid sphere, 11 was retarded AI playing with other human players on a global scale, 12 was gambits and AI controlled party members, and 13 was the extremely streamlined combat interface. Then you have sequels, and sub-franchise like Tactics and Adventures, so on and so forth.

Then you have Chrono Trigger with a multitude of different endings, Xenogears with it's interactive combat interface, Secret of Mana being multiple players ... well, this just isn't a company that became what it was by sticking to a formula.

Did from memory. Most likely missed some more or less obvious changes between one game to the next. These were just the ones I remembered.


Very interesting and true post. Thank you for reminding me that SE sold the awesome IP of Xenogears (WTF is a Xenosaga?), stopped making Chrono games, and stopped making good Mana games. And don't get me started on the horrible, unspeakable things they did with the awesome SaGa series.. Seriously, WTF was Unlimited SaGa and why did it violate my SaGa Frontier? That must have been the beginning of the cash grabbing days... and getting $8 for selling a new $50-$60 game at Gamestop. ; ;

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 1:41pm by DamienSScott


Yeah, Square Enix really doesn't know what to do with itself.
#189 Mar 28 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Were Xenogears and Xenosaga supposed to be related at all? If they were I definitely don't see how Smiley: laugh I hadn't played Xenogears before Xenosaga, so I really enjoyed myself.


It's not that they had to be related, but as a kid having played Xenogears, I guess I just expected more "gears" in Xenosaga. It just seemed like they were an arbitrary addition that wasn't even used that much. If I recall, most of their attacks were pretty basic and I preferred using the actual characters over them. The story and gameplay wasn't bad or anything, I just felt like they could have done more/gone a different way with the IP. Squaresoft never should have sold it imo. I mean ****, they've kept making Front Mission games and while interesting and sometimes fun, they don't hold a candle to Tactics.

Maybe I would have been more invested in the trilogy if they didn't take so long getting Episode Two out.

Edited, Mar 28th 2013 3:21pm by DamienSScott
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#190 Mar 28 2013 at 1:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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I wasn't trying to criticize for not liking Xenosaga, sorry if I gave that impression.

Having come from the opposite direction (Saga first before Gears) I was able to enjoy the game as my first Xeno game, but I agree, the mechs felt like they were slapped on rather than an integral part of the game. I really liked Shion and KOS-MOS and I think that's really why I liked the game, the story and the characters more than the game play itself.
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#191 Mar 28 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
I wasn't trying to criticize for not liking Xenosaga, sorry if I gave that impression.

Having come from the opposite direction (Saga first before Gears) I was able to enjoy the game as my first Xeno game, but I agree, the mechs felt like they were slapped on rather than an integral part of the game. I really liked Shion and KOS-MOS and I think that's really why I liked the game, the story and the characters more than the game play itself.



Haha, I know Wint. It's just differing opinions and a discussion. I know you have to deal with some things and some stuff, especially in this thread so I don't take it to heart. The more we discuss it though the more I'm starting to recall the game. I do remember greatly enjoying the development of the characters in Ep. 1. I most likely would have played all 3 if they came out closer together. I might have to look into getting my hands on them again in the future, I'm sure it would be an enjoyable experience to play through all of them at once.

And it isn't like Xenogears was a perfect game either. I'm pretty sure they had to rush production in the end and had to scrap a huge chunk of the story, causing the second disc to be what it was.
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#192 Mar 28 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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Maaaaan.. I dont see how all you people can be so negative.. I just read about some of the FATES they have in store.. MAN! I amped up!
#193 Mar 28 2013 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


Some people like to actually eat their own waste.... FFXIII series is a stain on FF legacy, FFXIII is as different from FFXIII-2 as FFVI is from FFVIII, the stoy in XIII-2 made no sense whatsoever if you actually played XIII, there is no coherence in the two of them, is like if you where watching evangelion, and midway it turns into dragon ball z, and you are just like WTF! Did shinji just went SSJ ? How ? Why ? Because Paradox!

Also FFXIII-2 sold half of what XIII did, also as you noted, you are happy with subpar quality, fine for you, but that was not what FF was all about :)


Honestly, like I said, everyone has their own opinion about what they think the FF games should be like. I was just giving mine. I liked the games. That's all I was saying. I tried giving some reasoning as to why I thought that way.

I didn't really see any reasoning behind your opinion other than the stories didn't make sense from one game to the other, so I was just curious to see what the sales figures were for each game in the FF series. I saw that XIII was the 2nd best selling game in the entire franchise. Looking at that alone makes it difficult to see how it's considered a failure in the majority of FF fans. I understand that these sales numbers don't necessarily reflect the attitude toward those players after they played it, but it's not like they sold this many on the first day and then people just stopped buying it. By word of mouth alone, like we saw of FFXIV, I would think that if the majority of players weren't satisfied with the game I would think that the sales figures would be much lower. If I am to assume if XIII is a stain on the FF legacy, then wouldn't it be logical, by numbers alone, that every other FF title in the history of the franchise is also a stain other than VII? It's the only game that has sold more copies in it's lifetime.

I'm just curious of what your reasoning is behind not liking XIII and XIII-2 other than "the stories don't make sense." I respect your opinion, but please don't act like mine is wrong just because you disagree.


Ok i will try explain it the best i can.

To understand the success of FFXIII, you have to look at a trend, the first FF title in a console generation, will always outsell the following titles in the same generation for example IV,VII,X,XIII. This is no mere coincidence, most FF fans are eager to buy the new title for the new console, as are RPG fans in general, because of the upgrade in graphics and the gap in time between the last title and the new One. XIII did sold 6+ million copies, nothing to sneeze at, but the backlash from the community was something never seen before, i bought the game when it released, and i returned it, i have never returned a FF title EVER! Not even X! Also if you check XIII-2 did not even came close to selling the same numbers XIII did, why did it not ? It was created with the full intent of being everything XIII was not, it was a redeem title, yet half the people ignored it, it was so bad that on release day, Tales of grace beat XIII-2 on sales, something that has never happened, and should have never happened.

Now on to why i did not liked XIII, well for one the story pace was horrible, the game was linear as ****, no world map, summons where some kind of transformers, the characters where horrible, vanille was more annoying than yuna, snow was some idiot, and hope was a crybaby, the only character that i liked was sach or whatever his name is, he was cool, and realistic, everyody else was so over the top, and lighting was a clone of Cloud! If i wanted to play cloud, i would play VII or crisis core, also combat was so boring, it brought me to tears, just X X X X X X X X clear a stage, next X X X X X clear another stange, watch a CG, XXXXX, watch another CG, XXXXXX watch another CG, it felt like a movie, i was just hitting X to see what happens next, and what happened next was boring, the story line was presented in a way that was bland and boring, i really did not care, all this nonesense about Lcie and Icie or whatever was just stupid, so the big bad guys like orphan and whatever they are called falcie or something, where taking care of humans in the hope of having their creator come back right ? But wait in XIII-2 that is thrown out of the window, now is some valhalla sh*t brough from valkyrie profile, and lighting is lennet ? Wait WHAT ? When did this happened ? When was time travel and paradoxes ever an issue or a topic in the original game ? NOWHERE! But ok whatever so this bad guy with a big sword, has always been present and has had to watch this little girl die over and over.... Hmm i dont recall them in the original game.... I mean like it was not even sugested... But ok.... so we got some time paradoxes and now we can travel back and forth but is all irrelevant because if you fix a timeline, the messed up one continues anyways and creates a new fixed one, so now we got a messed up one and a fixed one, geez that sounds like some Chrono cross copy paste stuff right there.

Anyways really the game was just pathetic, Play Xenogears, now that is a real game.


Ostia wrote:
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
swisa wrote:
Ostia wrote:
"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


swisa wrote:
[quote=Ostia]"Here at SE we care about the Final Fantasy Brand! We Respect It!"

Releases XIII..... "Well see that sold, lets shove this female cloud down their throats all while we laugh on our way down the bank"

"We know our games have not been quality the last few years but we are gonna fix that BELIEVE IT!"

Hey you toriyama, make XIII-2, just rehash the areas, use the same monsters, and just make a stupid story, WHO CARES IF IT MAKES NO SENSE DUDE TIME PARADOX BRAH!

"We at SE want you all to know we take the Final Fantasy legacy very serious.... How many times do we have to say it guys ? for reals is SERIOUS!"

Hey you monkey go make me a final fantasy for phones.... WHO CARES IF IS WORST THAN ANYTHING WE HAVE EVER RELESED!! Just name it Final Fantasy something man, and it will sell, sh*t with the name alone we can just charge $20 and call it a day.... Jesus just call it Final Fantasy Dimension and GET ON IT!!!! Oh and also make me a game where there is no strategy, no deepth no story, just random battles and the kicker will be that we will charge them money to unlock FF Main characters, yeah yeah another great idea, if you pay us money, it will be totally random Muahahaha You might spend 50 dollars and never see Cloud! Muahaha THIS SUCKERS!

..... SE..... Is beyond raping Final Fantasy.....


Personally, I liked the FFXIII series so far. The only thing I didn't like about XIII is the fact that the world was so linear. In XIII-2, they did a much better job. I think the story made sense. They only thing that didn't make sense is the fact they expected their customers to pay for DLC just to see a proper ending to the story. That wasn't a smart move by any means. I don't know the exact numbers, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure XIII-2 has sold the most copies of any FF game for a long while now. I'm pretty much to the point that the old school FF fans simply wont be happy with the FF's they release nowadays. The franchise has been in a long trend of becoming more and more action based and we see it in the battle system. I guess they are trying to classify the games as an "action rpg" while staying true to their roots, but many of their player base simply doesn't like the way they implement it.

Overall, in my personal opinion, I think that the recent FF games have been a success. The thing, I think, they are running into is the fact that they've changed the games so much over their long span that their fans are coming in at different times and they feel like a "Final Fantasy" game should be just like the game where they entered at. As this keeps going on, they continue changing the games and people continue to form different ideas of what "Final Fantasy" should be and they feel the backlash. We, as a FF community, are very passionate about the franchise and it's obvious that we all want it to succeed. It just seems like we all have different ideas of how it should be as opposed to how the company keeps doing it. I'm happy as long as they have a halfway decent story, with randomish battles and an immersive world. They've succeeded in my book with all of those.

EDIT: Removed extra part of quote that showed up twice.

Edited, Mar 27th 2013 8:14pm by swisa


Some people like to actually eat their own waste.... FFXIII series is a stain on FF legacy, FFXIII is as different from FFXIII-2 as FFVI is from FFVIII, the stoy in XIII-2 made no sense whatsoever if you actually played XIII, there is no coherence in the two of them, is like if you where watching evangelion, and midway it turns into dragon ball z, and you are just like WTF! Did shinji just went SSJ ? How ? Why ? Because Paradox!

Also FFXIII-2 sold half of what XIII did, also as you noted, you are happy with subpar quality, fine for you, but that was not what FF was all about :)


Honestly, like I said, everyone has their own opinion about what they think the FF games should be like. I was just giving mine. I liked the games. That's all I was saying. I tried giving some reasoning as to why I thought that way.

I didn't really see any reasoning behind your opinion other than the stories didn't make sense from one game to the other, so I was just curious to see what the sales figures were for each game in the FF series. I saw that XIII was the 2nd best selling game in the entire franchise. Looking at that alone makes it difficult to see how it's considered a failure in the majority of FF fans. I understand that these sales numbers don't necessarily reflect the attitude toward those players after they played it, but it's not like they sold this many on the first day and then people just stopped buying it. By word of mouth alone, like we saw of FFXIV, I would think that if the majority of players weren't satisfied with the game I would think that the sales figures would be much lower. If I am to assume if XIII is a stain on the FF legacy, then wouldn't it be logical, by numbers alone, that every other FF title in the history of the franchise is also a stain other than VII? It's the only game that has sold more copies in it's lifetime.

I'm just curious of what your reasoning is behind not liking XIII and XIII-2 other than "the stories don't make sense." I respect your opinion, but please don't act like mine is wrong just because you disagree.


Ok i will try explain it the best i can.

To understand the success of FFXIII, you have to look at a trend, the first FF title in a console generation, will always outsell the following titles in the same generation for example IV,VII,X,XIII. This is no mere coincidence, most FF fans are eager to buy the new title for the new console, as are RPG fans in general, because of the upgrade in graphics and the gap in time between the last title and the new One. XIII did sold 6+ million copies, nothing to sneeze at, but the backlash from the community was something never seen before, i bought the game when it released, and i returned it, i have never returned a FF title EVER! Not even X! Also if you check XIII-2 did not even came close to selling the same numbers XIII did, why did it not ? It was created with the full intent of being everything XIII was not, it was a redeem title, yet half the people ignored it, it was so bad that on release day, Tales of grace beat XIII-2 on sales, something that has never happened, and should have never happened.

Now on to why i did not liked XIII, well for one the story pace was horrible, the game was linear as ****, no world map, summons where some kind of transformers, the characters where horrible, vanille was more annoying than yuna, snow was some idiot, and hope was a crybaby, the only character that i liked was sach or whatever his name is, he was cool, and realistic, everyody else was so over the top, and lighting was a clone of Cloud! If i wanted to play cloud, i would play VII or crisis core, also combat was so boring, it brought me to tears, just X X X X X X X X clear a stage, next X X X X X clear another stange, watch a CG, XXXXX, watch another CG, XXXXXX watch another CG, it felt like a movie, i was just hitting X to see what happens next, and what happened next was boring, the story line was presented in a way that was bland and boring, i really did not care, all this nonesense about Lcie and Icie or whatever was just stupid, so the big bad guys like orphan and whatever they are called falcie or something, where taking care of humans in the hope of having their creator come back right ? But wait in XIII-2 that is thrown out of the window, now is some valhalla sh*t brough from valkyrie profile, and lighting is lennet ? Wait WHAT ? When did this happened ? When was time travel and paradoxes ever an issue or a topic in the original game ? NOWHERE! But ok whatever so this bad guy with a big sword, has always been present and has had to watch this little girl die over and over.... Hmm i dont recall them in the original game.... I mean like it was not even sugested... But ok.... so we got some time paradoxes and now we can travel back and forth but is all irrelevant because if you fix a timeline, the messed up one continues anyways and creates a new fixed one, so now we got a messed up one and a fixed one, geez that sounds like some Chrono cross copy paste stuff right there.

Anyways really the game was just pathetic, Play Xenogears, now that is a real game. [/quote]

Quoting the reply, with quotes, to the absurdly long post + Double quote bug=
Is it really worth scrolling all the way back up there just to rate me down? Smiley: tongue

No fair if Wint does it. That's cheating!
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#194 Mar 28 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,530 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
... well, this just isn't a company that became what it was by sticking to a formula.


I think we just misunderstood each other a bit. I was referring to attitudes of the company and the sense of titles in general, not merely sticking to one formula that was successful in the past. There's a difference between gradual change and innovation, on one hand, and of trying to be "x-treme" for "today's audience" on the other. And even though Final Fantasy I - IX had some differences among them, it's also pretty clear that they have a huge amount in common, such as ATB, some semblance of jobs / classes, traditional inventory systems, world maps, and so on -- they're games that, no matter how many cinematic cutscenes appeared, were deep, traditionally inspired single-player role-playing games.

Although separated by 13 years and numerous console generations, you could still put FFI and FFIX side by side and see without much effort that they're of the same ilk. Even with FFX it's still fairly clear. Now that's being traditionally minded.

So you see, I refer to the driving force behind the company's continued releases, and it's clear -- heck, even from just looking at the protagonists of Final Fantasy titles -- that SE has been trying to change (or "expand?" ... or "exploit?") their market. Or perhaps they just realize that graphics are easier to make than a coherent plot and likeable characters. I think of it as the difference between a creative team making a sequel to a game, and a marketing team scaffolding a game that, to quote Eidos Montreal, appeals to "the modern audience of today's... market."
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#195 Mar 28 2013 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ugh. I'm going to have to start placing people on ignore for not trimming their quotes. I get that Firefox does the whole "I quote you twice" thing, but it's no different than trimming quote towers. Please take the extra time to cut it down so I don't automatically skip your posts for being so unwieldy.
#196 Mar 28 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hyrist wrote:
Ugh. I'm going to have to start placing people on ignore for not trimming their quotes. I get that Firefox does the whole "I quote you twice" thing, but it's no different than trimming quote towers. Please take the extra time to cut it down so I don't automatically skip your posts for being so unwieldy.


Thank you. Creative use of the
Put your 10 page long quote here
tags works wonders here, too, if you insist on keeping the whole quote tree there for reference.



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Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

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#198 Mar 28 2013 at 7:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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catwho wrote:
... if you insist on keeping the whole quote tree there for reference.

But isn't that what the thread is for!? Smiley: lol

Hmm... but this whole spoiler thing gives me an idea...

I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a HARDCORE READER MEDAL UNLOCKED! inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...?inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...?


Edited, Mar 28th 2013 10:00pm by KaneKitty
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

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#199 Mar 28 2013 at 8:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
catwho wrote:
... if you insist on keeping the whole quote tree there for reference.

But isn't that what the thread is for!? Smiley: lol

Hmm... but this whole spoiler thing gives me an idea...

I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a HARDCORE READER MEDAL UNLOCKED! inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...?inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...?


Edited, Mar 28th 2013 10:00pm by KaneKitty


Woot I got a medal!
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#200 Mar 28 2013 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
catwho wrote:
... if you insist on keeping the whole quote tree there for reference.

But isn't that what the thread is for!? Smiley: lol

Hmm... but this whole spoiler thing gives me an idea...

I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a I wonder whether I can put a HARDCORE READER MEDAL UNLOCKED! inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...?inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...? inside of here for an infinite regress...?


Edited, Mar 28th 2013 10:00pm by KaneKitty


Smiley: lolSmiley: laughSmiley: lol
Smiley: laughSmiley: lolSmiley: laugh
Smiley: lolSmiley: laugh[:lol:]
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#201 Mar 28 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Good
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Lol. . .
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