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Is combat changing for ARR?auto attack made me quit the gameFollow

#1 Apr 02 2013 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
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I was one of the guys who played FFXIV from the start and played it hardcore. When auto attack was added it made the game feel horrible to me so I quit. Will ARR have fluid combat or are they keeping the same terrible auto attack?

Edited, Apr 2nd 2013 5:53pm by tpgsoldier
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#2 Apr 02 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Let me also add I am not saying I hate auto attack in general. I loved how fluidly auto attack works in many of the games I have played in the past WOW being the one that most sticks out as having very good auto attack.

The very clunky duct tape version of auto attack in FFXIV was a game killer for me. I would just like someone to confirm the terrible version of auto attack in FFXIV that ran myself and several of my friends off will not be in the remake.
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#3 Apr 02 2013 at 5:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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2.0 combat will be macro bars, global cooldowns, auto-attacks, and regenerating resource bars. Think WoW combat (or standard MMORPG combat) with the occasional party-wide limit break and you have FFXIV's system. Anything about the actual functionality of 2.0 is covered still by a non-disclosure agreement and can't be discussed (on Zam) -- I think that covers it. :)


Edited, Apr 2nd 2013 7:06pm by KaneKitty
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#4 Apr 02 2013 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
2.0 combat will be macro bars, global cooldowns, auto-attacks, and regenerating resource bars. Think WoW combat (or standard MMORPG combat) with the occasional party-wide limit break and you have FFXIV's system. Anything about the actual functionality of 2.0 is covered still by a non-disclosure agreement and can't be discussed (on Zam) -- I think that covers it. :)


Edited, Apr 2nd 2013 7:06pm by KaneKitty


If they can get it down(without the clunky feel) I may have to give this game a second try :)
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#5 Apr 02 2013 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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tpgsoldier wrote:
Let me also add I am not saying I hate auto attack in general. I loved how fluidly auto attack works in many of the games I have played in the past WOW being the one that most sticks out as having very good auto attack.

The very clunky duct tape version of auto attack in FFXIV was a game killer for me. I would just like someone to confirm the terrible version of auto attack in FFXIV that ran myself and several of my friends off will not be in the remake.


It's no secret that one of the major goals of 2.0 is improve the combat experience, and with the new engine and combat system planned for ARR, many of the incurable flaws of 1.0 ought to be eliminated. We'll publicly know for sure later in the beta if they've actually succeeded.
#6 Apr 02 2013 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Xoie wrote:
tpgsoldier wrote:
Let me also add I am not saying I hate auto attack in general. I loved how fluidly auto attack works in many of the games I have played in the past WOW being the one that most sticks out as having very good auto attack.

The very clunky duct tape version of auto attack in FFXIV was a game killer for me. I would just like someone to confirm the terrible version of auto attack in FFXIV that ran myself and several of my friends off will not be in the remake.


It's no secret that one of the major goals of 2.0 is improve the combat experience, and with the new engine and combat system planned for ARR, many of the incurable flaws of 1.0 ought to be eliminated. We'll publicly know for sure later in the beta if they've actually succeeded.


Right on man, I will be watching for a chance to give it a try when they do the open beta.
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#7 Apr 02 2013 at 6:11 PM Rating: Default
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All I can say is this, based on public information and journalist impressions of ARR.

If you want satisfying combat, ARR is DEFINITELY not the game for you.
#8 Apr 02 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
All I can say is this, based on public information and journalist impressions of ARR.

If you want satisfying combat, ARR is DEFINITELY not the game for you.


"satisfying combat" being an entirely tangible and quantifiable characteristic of a game.
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#9 Apr 02 2013 at 6:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just in case you want a chance at the closed beta.

http://entry.ffxiv.com/beta/na

Edited, Apr 4th 2013 1:18pm by Geffe
#10 Apr 02 2013 at 6:37 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
All I can say is this, based on public information and journalist impressions of ARR.

If you want satisfying combat, ARR is DEFINITELY not the game for you.


"satisfying combat" being an entirely tangible and quantifiable characteristic of a game.


I don't know what you're trying to say... OP did ask specifically about the combat changes.

I'm not a beta tester, but it's been described by people who attended the press event as WoW combat in slow motion. It doesn't sound like what OP is looking for if auto attack made him quit the game. (especially since auto attack is apparently still in)

Edited, Apr 2nd 2013 8:41pm by Killua125
#11 Apr 02 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
All I can say is this, based on public information and journalist impressions of ARR.

If you want satisfying combat, ARR is DEFINITELY not the game for you.


"satisfying combat" being an entirely tangible and quantifiable characteristic of a game.


I don't know what you're trying to say... OP did ask specifically about the combat changes.

I'm not a beta tester, but it's been described by people who attended the press event as WoW combat in slow motion. It doesn't sound like what OP is looking for if auto attack made him quit the game.


I understand you are giving your opinion but I think you and OP both need to wait till you play the game before you pass judgement. That's what I am doing.
#12 Apr 02 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
It doesn't sound like what OP is looking for if auto attack made him quit the game. (especially since auto attack is apparently still in)


He also said he doesn't hate auto-attack.

He didn't like the implementation from 1.0. That's probably fair, it was tacked on late in the development cycle.

Quote:
but I think you and OP both need to wait till you play the game before you pass judgement


That's a good idea. That's how you judge things fairly Smiley: nod
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#13 Apr 02 2013 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
All I can say is this, based on public information and journalist impressions of ARR.

If you want satisfying combat, ARR is DEFINITELY not the game for you.


"satisfying combat" being an entirely tangible and quantifiable characteristic of a game.


I don't know what you're trying to say... OP did ask specifically about the combat changes.

I'm not a beta tester, but it's been described by people who attended the press event as WoW combat in slow motion. It doesn't sound like what OP is looking for if auto attack made him quit the game. (especially since auto attack is apparently still in)

Edited, Apr 2nd 2013 8:41pm by Killua125


That makes me sad. I will still be excited to try it out but if its not as fluid as a game I was playing in 2004 I dont think it will be for me.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2013 9:07pm by tpgsoldier
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#14 Apr 02 2013 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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He's basing his answer on Alpha footage and 2nd hand interviews. Nobody has seen what they've done since Phase 1 of the beta, there are many months of changes to come before the final product is released. I encourage you to wait until Phase 4 (or sign up for the beta now), and try it yourself before writing the game off.
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#15 Apr 02 2013 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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Basically everyone that paid for the game gets a free week or few during phase 4, so even if you don't score the beta lottery, it's at least worth a look.
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#16 Apr 02 2013 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
All I can say is this, based on public information and journalist impressions of ARR.

If you want satisfying combat, ARR is DEFINITELY not the game for you.


"satisfying combat" being an entirely tangible and quantifiable characteristic of a game.


AKA if you're expecting an action platformer with a marvel vs capcom 2 style battle system, you're **** outta luck.

#17 Apr 03 2013 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
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Oh Tony. Phrasing things like he isn't Legacy. Smiley: laugh

I don't mind the auto attack. I liked the original idea though, Certain fights made it hard to switch from defense to offense because they had you on the ropes. Auto attack made the game easier in certain ways.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 3:27am by GDLYL
#18 Apr 03 2013 at 1:26 AM Rating: Excellent
I've read several interviews in which media testers were surprised at how fast the new battle system is.

That said, I'm guessing we won't have an idea about how good the battle system really is until further along in the beta process.

But yes, according to media reports, it is definitely fast. If it's that much faster, it's probably not as clunky as it used to be.
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#19 Apr 03 2013 at 3:08 AM Rating: Default
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He's basing his answer on Alpha footage and 2nd hand interviews. Nobody has seen what they've done since Phase 1 of the beta, there are many months of changes to come before the final product is released. I encourage you to wait until Phase 4 (or sign up for the beta now), and try it yourself before writing the game off.


Isn't that the same all people said with FFXIV 1.0?
Wait till it's out?!
I know Yoshi-P is different then Tanaka, but I doubt they'll change the overall combat system.
What do you think?

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 5:09am by xenatore
#20 Apr 03 2013 at 3:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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xenatore wrote:

I know Yoshi-P is different then Tanaka, but I doubt they'll change the overall combat system.
What do you think?

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 5:09am by xenatore


They changed almost evrything, including the overall combat system.

Edit: Any info given at this point would be a breach of the NDA, so we will just have to wait a little longer to find out the scope of the changes.


Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 5:23am by Teneleven
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#21 Apr 03 2013 at 5:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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xenatore wrote:
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He's basing his answer on Alpha footage and 2nd hand interviews. Nobody has seen what they've done since Phase 1 of the beta, there are many months of changes to come before the final product is released. I encourage you to wait until Phase 4 (or sign up for the beta now), and try it yourself before writing the game off.


Isn't that the same all people said with FFXIV 1.0?
Wait till it's out?!
I know Yoshi-P is different then Tanaka, but I doubt they'll change the overall combat system.
What do you think?

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 5:09am by xenatore


From my hands on it felt quite fast, and a lot of fun. There are multiple combos to set up and battle is fluid and quick. They even showed video comparing a battle in 1.0 versus ARR in split screen and the ARR battles end much faster and are much more exciting. So I think I have a little credibility here when I say to "please look forward to it!"
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#22 Apr 03 2013 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Join the open Beta in phase 4 and determine for yourself. You will either love it or hate it.
#23 Apr 03 2013 at 8:49 AM Rating: Default
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Go read the forums where the posters regularly break the nda and you'll have your answer, probably not the answer you're hoping for sadly.
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#24 Apr 03 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
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tpgsoldier wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
2.0 combat will be macro bars, global cooldowns, auto-attacks, and regenerating resource bars. Think WoW combat (or standard MMORPG combat) with the occasional party-wide limit break and you have FFXIV's system. Anything about the actual functionality of 2.0 is covered still by a non-disclosure agreement and can't be discussed (on Zam) -- I think that covers it. :)


Edited, Apr 2nd 2013 7:06pm by KaneKitty


If they can get it down(without the clunky feel) I may have to give this game a second try :)


You mean without the weird "active" stance thing, and without abilities resetting the auto-attack speed?

Yeah, those things should be covered.

I think you posed your question poorly, which incited the gut reaction of "defend the game!" but I understood what you meant. It's not auto-attack OP hates, but the poor and tacked on implementation in 1.0. (Which I felt got better once I tamed the beast, but was immediately awkward and clunky)

Combat systems are undergoing drastic and complete overhauls throughout the beta, so it's unfair to judge now (via videos or through shadier forums with nda leaks.)

Nothing is solid until Phase 4, as others have said. Just have to wait.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 12:43pm by Louiscool
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#25 Apr 03 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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Bieng Legacy! I cannot wait for SE to drop the NDA so your minds will be Blown!!! But i actually have enough faith in SE to hope they do not drop the NDA :)
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#26 Apr 03 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
I've read several interviews in which media testers were surprised at how fast the new battle system is.

That said, I'm guessing we won't have an idea about how good the battle system really is until further along in the beta process.

But yes, according to media reports, it is definitely fast. If it's that much faster, it's probably not as clunky as it used to be.


I have only seen Wint say that.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:26pm by Killua125
#27 Apr 03 2013 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
Thayos wrote:
I've read several interviews in which media testers were surprised at how fast the new battle system is.

That said, I'm guessing we won't have an idea about how good the battle system really is until further along in the beta process.

But yes, according to media reports, it is definitely fast. If it's that much faster, it's probably not as clunky as it used to be.


I have only seen Wint say that.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:26pm by Killua125


And what have other media outlets who have had hands-on time with the game, and are not breaking NDA, have you spoken to?
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#28 Apr 03 2013 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Thayos wrote:
I've read several interviews in which media testers were surprised at how fast the new battle system is.

That said, I'm guessing we won't have an idea about how good the battle system really is until further along in the beta process.

But yes, according to media reports, it is definitely fast. If it's that much faster, it's probably not as clunky as it used to be.


I have only seen Wint say that.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:26pm by Killua125


I spent waaaaaay too long doing your homework for you.

Massively

Quote:
I mentioned before that the slower, non-standard cooldown doesn't really slow down combat that much, and part of the reason is that combat is fast. In single-target battles, you can unload a lot with your TP starting at max, but you do need to be somewhat careful lest you run out when you'll need it. Skills hit hard enough that while you won't be spamming one ability repeatedly, hitting it once or twice in the course of a battle has the same net effect. You wind up with the same sense of making a calculated choice rather than hammering on buttons, but the fights feel faster and more responsive.


RPGamer

Quote:
The newbie area of the Black Shroud was filled with some squirrels, ladybugs, and Funguars, all of which fell very quickly to the two techniques I had at my disposal: Gloom Arrow and Heavy Shot. Mr. Yoshida mentioned earlier that making battles shorter was a selling point of A Realm Reborn


IGN

Quote:
Compared to the sluggish tedium of Final Fantasy XIV’s original combat system, A Realm Reborn’s is noticeably faster. More importantly, the interface is hugely improved. It actually responds to inputs instead of constantly lagging a few fractions of a second behind or longer.


Smiley: schooled

I'm sure there are more, these are just the first few I found. I'm also sure you won't care, but it was a good exercise for me, I have more sources for my compendium now.
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#29 Apr 03 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
[quote=Thayos]I've read several interviews in which media testers were surprised at how fast the new battle system is.

That said, I'm guessing we won't have an idea about how good the battle system really is until further along in the beta process.

But yes, according to media reports, it is definitely fast. If it's that much faster, it's probably not as clunky as it used to be.


I have only seen Wint say that.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:26pm by Killua125

I spent waaaaaay too long doing your homework for you.

snip

Oh Sh*t!

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 2:01pm by Louiscool
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#30 Apr 03 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Excellent
I am actually curious about which media reports ever claimed that he battles were slow or clunky? I read tons about ARR, and can't recall seeing that criticism from anyone who got to test the game.
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#31 Apr 03 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
I am actually curious about which media reports ever claimed that he battles were slow or clunky? I read tons about ARR, and can't recall seeing that criticism from anyone who got to test the game.


None! They have all pretty much said the same, compared to 1.0, 2.0 is fast.
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#32 Apr 03 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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xenatore wrote:
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He's basing his answer on Alpha footage and 2nd hand interviews. Nobody has seen what they've done since Phase 1 of the beta, there are many months of changes to come before the final product is released. I encourage you to wait until Phase 4 (or sign up for the beta now), and try it yourself before writing the game off.


Isn't that the same all people said with FFXIV 1.0?
Wait till it's out?!
I know Yoshi-P is different then Tanaka, but I doubt they'll change the overall combat system.
What do you think?

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 5:09am by xenatore


As opposed to what, the fruitless activity of judging it now with little to no info of current improvements? Yeah, let’s make lasting judgments about a game that’s not finished! Trolls and nay sayers like to proclaim that people who defend or think positively of FFXIV ARR are what is wrong in the first place. Our line of thinking is what hurts SE.. But I beg to differ, it’s silly comments like this that hurt SE. Any new comer who automatically sees the trolls talking bad about the game or taking small problems (which by the way could already be fixed by now) and blow them up to make the game seem bad. Ney sayers are the ones who hurt SE. Its ok to criticize in a positive way "hey you guys kind of messed up on this, you should think about fixing it." Instead of, "OMG they don’t have enough beards in the character customizations FFXIV ARR is going to flop!!!" Yes, wait till the game is closer to being complete.. Then decide. You want SE to redeem itself but you won’t give it the time necessary to do so.. For people who come to FFXIV forums and claim to want the game to do good and be good, you do more harm towards the brand and what people think about it than helping it with your so called "constructive criticism."
#33 Apr 03 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Technically the game is Finished! Is already on Beta, what you will see on beta, will be what you will see on release, with the exception of bug fixes, and combat adjusments, but the core systems will be there :)

Also we have limited information because that is how SE has chosen to do it. And i do not blame them on this one.
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#34Killua125, Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 12:57 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That depends on how long they want to/are permitted to stay in testing. If they end up making enough changes, it could be different from what it is now.
#35 Apr 03 2013 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Odds are that fundamental systems like the user interface are sticking with the way they are now.

Combat could be tweaked. Area flow could be tweaked. Character progression could be tweaked.

Until you actually get a chance to play with it, don't make any judgments.

I almost wish SE would put out some more beta footage to give people something to look at and speculate about rather than relying on alpha footage for stuff like this.
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#36 Apr 03 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
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edit, wrong thread.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 3:19pm by preludes
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#37 Apr 03 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Technically the game is Finished! Is already on Beta, what you will see on beta, will be what you will see on release, with the exception of bug fixes, and combat adjusments, but the core systems will be there :)

Also we have limited information because that is how SE has chosen to do it. And i do not blame them on this one.


If there are things to fix/tweak then the game is NOT finnished.. Yeah the frame work is done.. Only someone like tanaka would call a game in beta finnished lmao.. Its in beta for a reason.. I'm talking phase 4/ launch.. Aside from this.. the "finnished" game has yet to be seen to form a judgment is the point.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 3:35pm by AlexandEric
#38 Apr 03 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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AlexandEric wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Technically the game is Finished! Is already on Beta, what you will see on beta, will be what you will see on release, with the exception of bug fixes, and combat adjusments, but the core systems will be there :)

Also we have limited information because that is how SE has chosen to do it. And i do not blame them on this one.


If there are things to fix/tweak then the game is NOT finnished.. Yeah the frame work is done.. Only someone like tanaka would call a game in beta finnished lmao.. Its in beta for a reason.. I'm talking phase 4/ launch.. Aside from this.. the "finnished" game has yet to be seen to form a judgment is the point.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 3:35pm by AlexandEric


Yes because so many and many MMORPGS have been released in the last decade that from beta to release where drastically changed...... Oh wait!

Also the "Finished" game has been seen, we just cannot talk about it, Two entirely different things.
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#39 Apr 03 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Small change or or big change finnished is finnished sir. So no the finnished game HASNT been seen. Also even if the so called finnished game has been seen, if you cant talk about it whats the point? What is the point of the NDA if not for something that were in are our and some things that are out are now in? So again.. Until the finnished game is in open beta/launch there is no point in making a lasting judgment because nothing is set in stone hence the point of player feed back.. If enough people say it sucks will it stay in? If enough people say it needs to be in that may very well happend. you dont know.. Its not finnished. :)
#40 Apr 03 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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AlexandEric wrote:
Small change or or big change finnished is finnished sir. So no the finnished game HASNT been seen. Also even if the so called finnished game has been seen, if you cant talk about it whats the point? What is the point of the NDA if not for something that were in are our and some things that are out are now in? So again.. Until the finnished game is in open beta/launch there is no point in making a lasting judgment because nothing is set in stone hence the point of player feed back.. If enough people say it sucks will it stay in? If enough people say it needs to be in that may very well happend. you dont know.. Its not finnished. :)


By that logic an MMORPG is never finished, because it always evolving and being tweked, at some point it is what it is, also no game in beta has been "Drastically" changed from beta to release, so what people will see in beta, is what they should expect more or less on release, with fixes and adjusments here and there, now if this where Alpha, then you might have had an argument, also considering XIV track record.... Yeah we have been here before.
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#41 Apr 03 2013 at 2:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Got an error when clicking the link.
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#42 Apr 03 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Try this one instead.

http://entry.ffxiv.com/beta/na
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#43 Apr 03 2013 at 4:42 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
AlexandEric wrote:
Small change or or big change finnished is finnished sir. So no the finnished game HASNT been seen. Also even if the so called finnished game has been seen, if you cant talk about it whats the point? What is the point of the NDA if not for something that were in are our and some things that are out are now in? So again.. Until the finnished game is in open beta/launch there is no point in making a lasting judgment because nothing is set in stone hence the point of player feed back.. If enough people say it sucks will it stay in? If enough people say it needs to be in that may very well happend. you dont know.. Its not finnished. :)


By that logic an MMORPG is never finished, because it always evolving and being tweked, at some point it is what it is, also no game in beta has been "Drastically" changed from beta to release, so what people will see in beta, is what they should expect more or less on release, with fixes and adjusments here and there, now if this where Alpha, then you might have had an argument, also considering XIV track record.... Yeah we have been here before.


Ive been in betas that have taken certain elements out completely. Beta isnt the end all be all you make it out to be. Even so, by your own submission alpha to finnish can have drastic change right? All we really have is alpha videos and other tid bits from interviews.. We dont even know whats going on in beta (even if we do we cant talk about it so there is no use for it here so it is irrelevent). So we dont have a "finnished" game to fairly judge the game. Also to say the game is finnished by beata is silly.. You say, 'at some point it is what it is." Well I would say it hasnt reached that point. You like to always bring up SE short comings and track record well.. Lets look at it then.. Everyones favorite saying was in my experience "FFXIV 1.0 was released as an unfinished game it should have been in alpha/beta longer." Why would people make that argument unless they believed it could have "drastically" changed the game so that it was enjoyable and kept more subs? If ARR were released at Beta phase 1 I bet it would probably look something like 1.0 and the same remarks would be made.. So no I dont agree beta is a finnished game. That IS the very point of beta.. Change.. See what works what doesnt work with a greater gaming community playing your game. So it is not finnished. It wasnt with 1.0 and it wouldnt be now. At the most you could say the foundation has been laid and frame work in place but the game by no means is finnished.. It has its major pillars im sure but it is not done. We are still looking at about 3 more onths of beta.. That is alot of work and testing. Some of the elements Yoshi-P wants to make ready at launch like housing or our own airships or some other things he mentioned.. But he is unsure if it will make it. I would say releasing ARR with housing would be a more note worthy change then releasing without it. Again we dont know beta specifics to say its reached the point of "it is what it is." I would submit to you that the "Finnished" game to us should be defined by what the makers call finished. Which is, the point of release where they actually try to sell the game. At launch and not any sooner. I understand what your saying but I respectfully disagree. Finnished is when the maker is comfortable trying to actually sell it. If at that point it still sucks, THEN say it sucks. Have at it!
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#44 Apr 03 2013 at 4:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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3,438 posts
Quote:
Finnished


The game is being Englished, Frenched, Germaned, and Japanesed. I'm afraid it isn't being Finnished anytime soon.

Smiley: clownSmiley: clownSmiley: clown

I'm a bad person.
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#45 Apr 03 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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229 posts
Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
Finnished


The game is being Englished, Frenched, Germaned, and Japanesed. I'm afraid it isn't being Finnished anytime soon.

Smiley: clownSmiley: clownSmiley: clown

I'm a bad person.

Good catch ;) ..You have rendered my entire argument useless.. Thanks Callion.
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#46 Apr 04 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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tpgsoldier wrote:


Thanks. I fixed my original post to what Callinon linked so no one else gets confused.
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