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#27 Apr 03 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:


That's important, but if it's costing the company too much money and there's no real returns, he will need to do something about that.

He's Japanese, but he's a businessman, not a samurai or whatever you think Japanese businessmen are. He's not going to choose honor over profit if it means the death of his company.


Killua Logic:

Let's completely scrap a game that's three years in the development, shows promise, right after promoting the Producer of the game to corporate executive! Final Fantasy XIV doom-and-gloom!

Now... if ARR hasn't been so far in development and in beta, and FFXIV 1.0 failed the first time, the CEO might have a different plan than just hiring a new team and scrapping it altogether.

There's a point in game development I like to call the "point of no return", where it's more work/and expensive to scrap the current project than it is to finish and release it. I'm fairly sure given ARR's status in beta testing, it's not in trouble unless it's released and subscriptions aren't going well.

Now Final Fantasy Versus XIII, that's been in development seven years and still no real information. It's also held up development on future console Kingdom Hearts games due to the team being occupied with that. If I were CEO, I'd either re-appropriate the team to get things done or start doing something about that.
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#28 Apr 03 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
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Well... from a business perspective, so far, FFXIV has been worse of a decision than anything you listed. We should consider that the new president with a background in finance will see it that way. I'm pretty sure FFXIV is Square's biggest blunder of all time.


Is he Japanese? (He is)

I think you have their new president confused with this guy.

Sticking to their promises, and proving that they won't let their flagship franchises fail is the smartest business move they can make. No amount of money can't buy faithful consumers.


That's important, but if it's costing the company too much money and there's no real returns, he will need to do something about that.

He's Japanese, but he's a businessman, not a samurai or whatever you think Japanese businessmen are. He's not going to choose honor over profit if it means the death of his company.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:09pm by Killua125


Well now you just sound silly. You clearly don't know that there are very large cultural differences between how Japan and America do business if you think I'm referring to Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai.

Here is some additional reading, if you care to educate yourself.

These differences can be personified by just looking at Tanaka. If SE was an American company, Tanaka would have just been asked to resign after the 1.0 failure, instead of being reassigned to FFXI.


Quote:
When you mention Type-0 Do you mean as in not releasing it Stateside ? Because Type-0 Is their best game since they changed their name to Square-Enix


Exactly, the fact that there isn't even news on it being released outside of Japan.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:31pm by Louiscool
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#29 Apr 03 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
Well... from a business perspective, so far, FFXIV has been worse of a decision than anything you listed. We should consider that the new president with a background in finance might see it that way. I'm pretty sure FFXIV is Square's biggest blunder of all time.


Based upon...what? Do you have some magical report that spells out how much SE lost on XIV as well as other games? Do you have a business degree or are you just pulling crap out of thin air? Do you know how many legacy members there were who paid during the part of 1.0 where they were collecting subscription fees?

These are all things you would have to know before making any of the statements I just quoted. You worry about misinformation being out there (see your post on the April Fool's article) yet you spout this crap.


On XIV ? On 1.0 alone around 30-50mil, considering the game was free for up to a year, put a couple mil more on keeping it running w/o any income, put 2.0 development cost on top of that, and considering what Triple A titles cost let alone MMORPGS, you could be looking up to 100-150Mil combined on FFXIV alone, on how many legacy members ? Really ? Considering at release they only had 50K and up to before the payment option came around there was around 10-15K users.... Less than 100K Easily! Come on we have gone thru this before :)


You have documented financials for this, or are you just pulling numbers out of your *** as well? It's ok, you can admit you have no really solid idea of how much they lost on this game specifically. Based on the last letter from the producer, assuming that mostly legacy and alpha testers were in phase 1, 100k legacy could be possible actually.
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#30Killua125, Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 11:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Actually, that's not my logic. If you looked at my second post in this thread, I said I don't think it should/will be scrapped.
#31 Apr 03 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:

Actually, that's not my logic. If you looked at my second post in this thread, I said I don't think it should/will be scrapped.


Then why/how would 14 be in trouble?
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#32Killua125, Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 11:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Budget cuts, layoffs, and so forth.
#33 Apr 03 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Budget cuts, layoffs, and so forth.


Currently the 14 dev team consists of many people from other departments / projects, to get 14 running quickly. I doubt they would need to layoff the staff, they will just go back to their projects, and SE will focus on key projects, like they are currently doing with 14. It's also pretty rare for a Japanese company to perform layoffs, so I think it was already a very tough decision to do the previous round of cuts.

His statements are made to re-assure investors, not some cryptic doom report.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:47pm by Louiscool
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#34 Apr 03 2013 at 12:17 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
Well... from a business perspective, so far, FFXIV has been worse of a decision than anything you listed. We should consider that the new president with a background in finance might see it that way. I'm pretty sure FFXIV is Square's biggest blunder of all time.


Based upon...what? Do you have some magical report that spells out how much SE lost on XIV as well as other games? Do you have a business degree or are you just pulling crap out of thin air? Do you know how many legacy members there were who paid during the part of 1.0 where they were collecting subscription fees?

These are all things you would have to know before making any of the statements I just quoted. You worry about misinformation being out there (see your post on the April Fool's article) yet you spout this crap.


On XIV ? On 1.0 alone around 30-50mil, considering the game was free for up to a year, put a couple mil more on keeping it running w/o any income, put 2.0 development cost on top of that, and considering what Triple A titles cost let alone MMORPGS, you could be looking up to 100-150Mil combined on FFXIV alone, on how many legacy members ? Really ? Considering at release they only had 50K and up to before the payment option came around there was around 10-15K users.... Less than 100K Easily! Come on we have gone thru this before :)


You have documented financials for this, or are you just pulling numbers out of your *** as well? It's ok, you can admit you have no really solid idea of how much they lost on this game specifically. Based on the last letter from the producer, assuming that mostly legacy and alpha testers were in phase 1, 100k legacy could be possible actually.


There will never be concrete numbers, that is why SE scraped the feature where you could see how many people where in a server :) But as far as price, we can take an educated guess :) As far as population, we did remember had those threads a while back on the community itself doing sensus, remember those ? But! Considering who you are, unless SE themselves says something is not real or feasable, just take into consideration, before legacy, the population was below 20K (That we know off) now the argument is that after making the game P2P the population increased by 90K ? Now new influx was seen in their main forums, or in the game, not one to assume 90K new bloods. I would give them 50K which is not bad considering where they where, and the status of the game.
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#35 Apr 03 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Quote:
Well... from a business perspective, so far, FFXIV has been worse of a decision than anything you listed. We should consider that the new president with a background in finance will see it that way. I'm pretty sure FFXIV is Square's biggest blunder of all time.


Is he Japanese? (He is)

I think you have their new president confused with this guy.

Um.. I think you just compared him to a prostitute lol.. Less honor more money! haha

Sticking to their promises, and proving that they won't let their flagship franchises fail is the smartest business move they can make. No amount of money can't buy faithful consumers.


That's important, but if it's costing the company too much money and there's no real returns, he will need to do something about that.

He's Japanese, but he's a businessman, not a samurai or whatever you think Japanese businessmen are. He's not going to choose honor over profit if it means the death of his company.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 1:09pm by Killua125


Um.. I think you just compared him to a prostitute lol.. Less honor more money!

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 2:42pm by AlexandEric
#36 Apr 03 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I am pretty sure the big wigs at SE has already considered all the sunk costs associated with FFXIV 2.0. I certainly didn't agree with their decision of continuous improvements onto the 1.0 as long as they did because they could have spent that money and time elsewhere. However...Kudos to SE for revamping the MMO by starting from a new game engine! A new engine optimized for PC will hopefully mean more SE games for the PC as I am sure a lot of it can be re-used/modified. Even if SE finally decides that 2.0 is not viable in the long run, I highly doubt layoffs and downsizing at this point is in any way related to their ffxiv exit strategy.

#37 Apr 03 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Default
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Please no games from SE on PC, they all suck.
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#38 Apr 03 2013 at 1:03 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
Please no games from SE on PC, they all suck.


LOL....agreed on the part the they all suck....BUT....I'm just saying it could be a way of spreading out ARR development costs...besides...I wouldn't mind if they decide to go multi-platform for their future games.
#39 Apr 03 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
Please no games from SE on PC, they all suck.


While I think they need to find someone else to do their PC ports (I had problems with both Tomb Raider and Sleeping Dogs despite my hardware being more than good enough to run both perfectly), I think "no games from SE on PC" would be a huge mistake. There's a lot of money to be made on Steam, etc.

I understand why their big hitter Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts games remain exclusive to consoles, but I don't think everything should.

I mean (just random ideas), think about a multi plat Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles online co-op game. That would probably do REALLY well on something like Steam.

Not sure if the latest Crystal Chronicles games are any good, I only played the Gamecube one, but it's just a random thought. A lot of money is to be made on PC games as well.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2013 3:09pm by Killua125
#40 Apr 03 2013 at 1:10 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
Budget cuts, layoffs, and so forth.



I'm sorry.


Killua Logic:

Let's dramatically cut the budget of the latest game of our flagship IP that's the spiritual sequel to the game that's considered by the company to be the most profitable in the franchise! Even more-so than Final Fantasy VII. Final Fantasy XIV Doom-and-gloom!


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#41Killua125, Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 1:13 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Wrong again. That's not what I personally want, I only stated it as a possibility with the new management.
#42Killua125, Posted: Apr 03 2013 at 1:39 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Small update.
#43 Apr 03 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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LOL! Omg that is hilarious hahaha
#44 Apr 03 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Default
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Ouch! I have to admit i laugh at that one XD!
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#45 Apr 03 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Wrong again. That's not what I personally want, I only stated it as a possibility with the new management.

Killua Logic: There's a new president and it's a possibility that he might cut some funding for FFXIV.

Jackass.


Call me whatever you like, but I'm still saying your assertions do not make any sense.

Mis-management and games becoming vaporware can soak up company funds. I don't see why they would cut funding on development of a game that is in the middle of beta testing and very close to the big re-launch.

Like I said in a previous post, the new CEO most likely would have taken a different route for FFXIV than the expensive route of scrapping 1.0 and hiring a team nine times the size to reboot it. But it's just a silly business decision to lay off FFXIV's team this far in until they see how it does after launch.
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#46 Apr 03 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Small update.

President and CEO of Square Enix America, Mike Fischer, confirmed to be laid off.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/04/02/corporate-restructuring-leads-to-layoffs-at-square-enix-los-angeles.aspx

Quote:
According to the report, layoffs affect marketing, public relations, accounting, IT, events, and more.


I'm actually more shocked that they expected 5 million units from Hitman... I mean we haven't seen a Hitman in 10 years, it's safe to to say it was forgotten by many, and never known by some.
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#47 Apr 03 2013 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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I will enjoy reading this thread again when the game has been released for half a year :) and then I'll bring forth my mighty stick and poke all those who wore the "End is near" sign. :)
#48 Apr 03 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Actually it seems their losses are coming down and things are getting better.. . SE has been blaming allot of the losses on FFXIV for a while now...

Fact of the matter is this: all games by SE are possibly in trouble.. FFXIV fails again it is possible to bring down the company. those losses are huge for a company the size of SE and they have been going on for a while.

FFXIV is either going to be the savior of the company or bring it down. That is why they are spending the time and money on it.
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#49 Apr 03 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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abesut wrote:
I will enjoy reading this thread again when the game has been released for half a year :) and then I'll bring forth my mighty stick and poke all those who wore the "End is near" sign. :)


We have been hearing that for like 3 years..... I have yet to see somebody stick me with a stick over XIV! Oh but i welcome the challenge XD!
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#50 Apr 03 2013 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
abesut wrote:
I will enjoy reading this thread again when the game has been released for half a year :) and then I'll bring forth my mighty stick and poke all those who wore the "End is near" sign. :)


We have been hearing that for like 3 years..... I have yet to see somebody stick me with a stick over XIV! Oh but i welcome the challenge XD!


I don't think you can handle my awesome poking stick, prepare yourself! I challenge you to a poking duel ! I will poke your blasphemy out of you, unholy Ostia!
#51 Apr 03 2013 at 2:19 PM Rating: Decent
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^^^ Lmao! I actually laugh out loud when i read that XD!

I welcome your challenge Sir! Smiley: lol
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