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Final Fantasy Old and New GamesFollow

#1 Apr 12 2013 at 5:34 PM Rating: Decent
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http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/ybbqrs/gametrailers-com-memo-to-square-enix


After watching the video in the link above, I just rolled my eyes. If you did not watch the video it was basically old fans complaining about Final Fantasy games like XIII and you can presume they wish things were as great as VII. This all seems like game politics to me and in real politics I am conservative but in terms of game politics, when it comes to game play difficulty I lean farther toward the hardcore player direction but some might paint me as a liberal with other aspects which might qualify me as a moderate and I don't like being moderate xD.

Final Fantasy X was the first game I played from the Final Fantasy series and I really liked most of the games aspects except Blitzball because I sucked at it. I liked the music, story, characters, graphics, monsters, environments, and gameplay. I played it when I was in elementary school so I never beaten it for a while in fact I would sometimes just stop playing it for months and come back to it. Even today I would replay it again and I can't wait till the updated version comes out. I also played X-2 but I haven't beaten it yet. The main difference I noticed was that the gameplay was different and the game seemed to have more of a feminine edge which I didn't mind.

When I got FF XII, it was interesting at first but it didn't seem as exciting as X and the gameplay was difficult so I quit on it a long time ago. If I had it today, I would probably just play for the sake of beating it but I would probably use guides. Overall it isn't one of my favorites.

As for the XIII series, I liked most aspects of it just like I did with FF X. FF XIII 1 and 2 aswell as Lightning Returns have received the most criticism from Final Fantasy fans because of its gameplay and difficulty. The games to me were somewhat challenging to me but I did beat it quicker than FFX. The only difficulty I ever really met in XIII was near the end where I couldn't get passed certain trash mobs. I finished the game later on. As for XIII-2, I got lost with the time travel and couldn't progress through the main story line and I wasn't much of a fan of its music nor its two players and 1 Pokemon battle team lol. Now that I've beaten both, I'm now looking forward for Lightning Returns

I've never played any Final Fantasy game before 10 so that makes me part of the new crowd for Square Enix. I can see how some of the older players have problems with this the recent games, especially 13, because I too have played a game that has been out for a considerate amount of time. That game is World of Warcraft which I played for more than five years and I think its going down the toilet because Blizzard is catering to the casual players, the story isn't impressive anymore, and it lost its touch. I've actually stopped playing it and am waiting for FF XIV ARR to come out and be the new MMO I play because it seems promising with just about every aspect I care about in a game. As for WOW, I think it will be out for a while even though I sometimes think it's reaching its end time. I think I've simply just lost interest of playing it.

When it comes to the Final Fantasy games before FFX, I think I would give them a try if ever having the opportunity. The only thing that makes me move away from those games are the players that played them and heavily label these games as the worst FF games ever. Their criticism makes me think that the FF games that came out around my generation's times are the worst ever. These critics seem to love FF VII a lot and even judge FF XIV ARR which I think has potential to be a great game. I'm not asking for or saying that the old generation players to come together with the newer generation players, I just think its very annoying. The whole point of this forum post is purely expression and I welcome discussion on other similar or different views. :)
#2 Apr 12 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Default
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You "rolled your eyes" at his complaints, yet you have never played any games before Final Fantasy X, therefore you would have no concept of how far the quality from Square Enix has plummeted?

OK... To be honest, that video was extremely gentle on Square Enix.

Edited, Apr 12th 2013 8:07pm by Killua125
#3 Apr 12 2013 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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I thought the video became melodramatic when it showed scenes from XIII with one of the theme songs of FF X. Do you think Final Fantasy games are in the end of times?
#4 Apr 12 2013 at 6:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Final Fantasy IX is available on PSN.
Final Fantasy VIII is available both on PC and PSN.
Final Fantasy VII is available both on PC and PSN.
Final Fantasy V and VI are available on GBA and, well, every emulator around.
Final Fantasy III and IV were remade for DS, and GBA, and also can be played on emulators.
And so on...

Really, these games are all very easy to play, it's really just a matter of searching for their title online. Smiley: nod
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#5 Apr 12 2013 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the info :) I'll probably get the ones on the PC and PSN at some point.


#6 Apr 12 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Decent
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You are a FF noob talking about things that you do not #1 Understand and # Have no knowledge off. You did not even beat X, nor XII, because "Difficult" Really ? FF are the mainstream of RPG, they are not "Difficult" and you talk about casual, yet you are casual on offline games ? You play a game because "SHINY OH GAWD GRAPHIXX LASARS" and then get bored, do not finish them and move to the next shiny thing.

Also please do tell me how WOW is ending, i would welcome the 99797998647979797 declaration of wow's demise.

P.S: FFX Sucked!
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#7 Apr 12 2013 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Look, a lot of us who grew up with FF are in our 30s and 40s now. They were a huge part of our adolescence as XIII is to yours.

Older Final Fantasies didn't have super awesome cutscenes and our imaginations had to fill in the rest. There was a lot of novelty and "firsts" that FF did (granted this was just by virtue of the times) but there were literally no other games doing what they were doing. They used limitations of the time and simple sprites to tell heart moving stories. Varied casts, dream sequences, mini-games, hidden story-lines, the illusion of freedom and choice, were things that made FF what it was.

If you wanted a regular western RPG experience (or any other for that matter) you were loading and installing tens of floppy disks of Forgotten Realms on PC ...or whatever.

In the recent past SE (no longer Square) has rested on their laurels, put huge budgets into graphics and direction in their main series, and frankly spread themselves too thin for the rest of their company. The criticism of XIII and the failure of FFXIV 1.0 was unheard of, given the "do-no-wrong" of their past offerings.

Again, I think this is partly their fault, and the fact that JRPGs never really were popular (in NA) to begin with. So, they were always treading on thin ice.

SE found that it wasn't really worth putting more games like Secret of Mana, Xenogears or Brave Fencer Musashi because they'd only sell maybe 200,000 copies between them all. So, they have been struggling to hold an identity with rehashing old franchises...and it worked to a point.

---


Even though I'd like for Square to return back to the old days, I can sadly see why they can't. So, I hope that they can focus on what they're good at, reorganize a bit and hopefully innovate and recapture a bit of that magic again.

FFXIV has that opportunity. I think (although some might call it pandering) harking back to older series is fine, if you're also borrowing and innovating in other areas. And I think that's what Yoshi is trying to do.

---

Lastly I think JP developers are still trying to find themselves, in the West especially. In the 90's there were great RPGs and games put out by Square, Konami and Capcom. Now Bioware, Bethesda and Irrational are making the games I want to play. (Well Eidos too, but that kinda weakens my argument)... :)
#8Killua125, Posted: Apr 12 2013 at 7:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Why can't they? Too risky is not an excuse... A Realm Reborn is anything but safe. It might never make them any money at all.
#9 Apr 12 2013 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol I did beat X but not XII. Yes I do like the graphics in FF but that isn't the only factor I enjoyed which I believe was stated. I become bored of some of the games because I got stuck at certain points but I later played them again and passed the points I got stuck. Comparing offline and online games is like comparing apples and oranges. As I've said before I lost interest in WOW over many things that I found problems with but I think the game will continue without me for more years to come. As for my concerns with wow... It started laye for me near the end if Cataclysm. I noticed more playets skipping most of the lvl 85 raid content lik e Blackrock Descent to do Dragon Soul. They were able to do this because high enough ilvl epucs dropped ftom easy heroics like Hour of Twilight. Thr most horrible system to that Blizzard integrated was the raid finder. It was always a disasters to do those types of raids but it was a new way for casuals to get easy epics. While regular DS raids were lesz ridicolous because the group was dedicated, I didn't like the fact that it became the only raid to get groups which made it seem more like farming. It totally screwed the ladder to end game raiding. I lost complete interest in WOW whe n MOP came out and at that point the game's image just seemed too silly to me and the basic storyline seemed really generic. I still was interested in FF games and wad lured by FF XIV.
#10Killua125, Posted: Apr 12 2013 at 7:26 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So you've beaten one Final Fantasy game and you feel compelled to comment on the direction that the series has taken since previous titles, which you never played.
#11 Apr 12 2013 at 7:46 PM Rating: Good
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Have you read what I said? Let me clarify again, I've beaten X, XIII, and XIII-2. I never gotten my hands on games before X and I have nothing against the games before it. I think that it is pointless for you to dwell on the fact that the games are changing out of your style and interest. Go find another game if new FF games have nothing to offer you anymore.



Edited, Apr 12th 2013 9:52pm by IvanStine207
#12 Apr 12 2013 at 7:54 PM Rating: Default
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so basically #dealwithit
#13 Apr 12 2013 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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It's obviously all up to you. Heck why don't you just make your own game for people, I'm sure you can put in the right stuff, oh and don't forget to tell others your a "non-profit business" and that you commit your heart and soul to the game so that the players can experience a top quality game.

Edited, Apr 12th 2013 10:06pm by IvanStine207
#14 Apr 12 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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That video seemed to be more of a pep talk kind of thing than complaining. All of the beef was valid and they were given credit for what they've done right. I really don't see the problem with it.

IvanStine207 wrote:
That game is World of Warcraft which I played for more than five years and I think its going down the toilet because Blizzard is catering to the casual players

Ironic. No offense, but this excuse is just a cop out. Considering that WoW services 10 million players and the majority of them are considered 'casual' gamers, they're just developing their game to the vast majority of their base. It's like being upset because a Chinese restaurant doesn't serve hamburgers.

Not only does it not make sense, but it's actually not true. WoW still has just as much 'hardcore' content as it used to. I'll concede that the raids don't take as long to clear, but there is just as much if not more content to be cleared. The only difference is that they changed it so that you'd get less content, but on a more frequent release schedule. Instead of getting 18 bosses in a raid and nothing for 6 months, you get 6 bosses every two months.

Personally, and this is coming from a former raider, I much preferred the latter. It led to less of the burnout feeling one would get from cramming their days with 4-6(almost always more on release) hours of raiding 4-5 times a week. Instead, I could relax and actually enjoy the time knowing that I wasn't missing out on anything and it just felt right to me in terms of how the content progressed. This is just my preference and it's ok to not share the same opinion, but whichever way you prefer it; this has no real bearing on how casual or hardcore the game is.
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#15 Apr 12 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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VII is the defining title in the series for most people. Not only was it the first 3D Final Fantasy game, but it was a defining point in the series that many fans (myself included) got hooked after that. VII started the series' trademark of delivering high quality scenes that meshed with the gameplay causing a unique game experience at the time. Many people will try to compare the newest Final Fantasy to the one they resonate with the most, and that's why FFVII gets mentioned a ton.

While FFVI and before were excellent (except FFII, that game can go to ****) single player RPGs in their own right, they were 2D and cutscenes and gameplay were limited to what they could show in 2D sprites and backgrounds.

Personally I hate X and XIII because they trivialized what Final Fantasy meant to me. What used to be a game full of exploration, an interesting battle system complemented with an amazing story, music and graphics were sliced down to a linear progression that discouraged exploration with a giant map with a big red X in front of you telling you where to go.

Don't get me started on XIII's fight-to-stagger+main character dies = game over battle system. I think XIII is a great game for a new IP or separate RPG, but for a Final Fantasy game I was largely disappointed and expected way more for what it was.


Edited, Apr 12th 2013 7:34pm by UltKnightGrover
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#16 Apr 12 2013 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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While I'll admit I quit WoW before doing MOP, I think there was other factors of the game that I started to censure... Before any expansions WoW seemed to be considerable populated. Questing and leveling didn't seem easy and quick as it used to and not just anyone could get into raiding and dungeons seemed to take more time and team work than they did when I lasy played. Ulimately my loss of interest us why I don't play it anymore.I think that ARR will provide a decent story with lots of lore. I'm not **** bent on difficulty of the game but I hope the game doesn't go F2P. Other factors that lure me are class/role customization, character creation and races, enviroments and graphics, and the housing system.
#17 Apr 12 2013 at 8:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
Kierk wrote:
Even though I'd like for Square to return back to the old days, I can sadly see why they can't.


Why can't they? .


Because generation Call of Duty.

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#18 Apr 12 2013 at 8:58 PM Rating: Default
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I heard VII made Square the most money of all their games and I watched a movie with its characters and I have to admit I like Sephiroth's theme song. As for XIII, I hated its stagger+ main characters die =game over battle system too. What are the main aspects that make FF VII great?

Edited, Apr 12th 2013 11:05pm by IvanStine207
#19 Apr 12 2013 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Ha I hate COD... that was all my friends and I played one time when we were at a gaming lodge one night.
#20 Apr 12 2013 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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IvanStine207 wrote:
I heard VII made Square the most money of all their games and I watched a movie with its characters and I have to admit I like Sephiroth's theme song. As for XIII, I hated its stagger+ main characters die =game over battle system too. What are the main aspects that make FF VII great?

Edited, Apr 12th 2013 11:05pm by IvanStine207


Just FYI, it was/still is XI.
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#21 Apr 12 2013 at 9:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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re: FF6 vs FF7

Let's look at the two main characters, Terra and Cloud. They both start off as employees of their universes' Evil Empires with inaccurate and missing memories of who they really were. They both encounter the rebel faction, and spend time trying to escape the first town because they defected (Cloud defected before the start of the game, Terra escaped mind control). Half way through the game they're separated from their groups and once they're found again they don't rejoin because they've had significant changes to their mental states; Terra becomes extremely maternal for the orphans and refuses to leave them and Cloud becomes catatonic from Life Stream Poisoning. They're out until you return and they discover who they really are and what they really want; Terra wanting to be more proactive in saving her orphans and Cloud figuring out he isn't Zack and that being proactive in stopping Sephiroth is the best thing he could do.

Now the two main villains, Kefka and Sephiroth. They, too, start off as employees of their universes' Evil Empires, and they're both relatively friendly with their heroic counterparts while they're there. Both were genetically manipulated since the womb by the Empire's top scientists, and while the scientists know of the instabilities, both Kefka and Sephiroth are allowed to not only operate within the organizations, but advance to top levels. Even for their individual universes they dress peculiarly. When the opportunity arises, they both kill the head guy of the Evil Empire to continue on with their ulterior motives. When they both achieve their ultimate power they create dungeons that require flying and descending from top level down until you finally find them. Both have multi-tier final forms, the first being grotesque monstrosities followed by an angelic End form. You first find out just how mentally damaged both individuals are when they pretty much snap and take out a town with no regard of who lives and dies.

Both stories begin with the main protagonists fighting against the Evil Empire without a second thought to the main antagonists, who is at best just another enemy within Evil Empire, until said antagonists eliminate the head of the Evil Empire. Both stories explores the implications of genetic engineering. Both games end without really explaining what happens. Terra's group escapes the tower, Cloud's escape the meteor, but beyond that nothing. No, the movies and sequels and prequels and everything else of FF7 don't count because they're not ingame. Both games are also about the ramifications of killing God. FF6 was where Kefka moved the statues and became God himself, and Sephiroth was that the world itself was God and he wanted to essentially kill it for his Mother. Both Gods have weapons of mass destruction to protect them, the Ultima Weapons (Atma in 6). Both games have a single city attacked by the true main antagonist with a sole survivor, who comes back as a party member to avenge their loved ones.

Both game's characters were essentially blank slates, with a single unique ability (FF6 abilities like Blitz, FF7 Limit Breaks), but overall you could alter physical and magical attacks through relics/espers/materia so there were no true "classes" and what you'd end up with at the end of the game is 4/3 remarkably similar statistically and ability-wise.

Now, I feel a game just isn't interesting unless the villain is someone who seems competent. Excluding the similarities discussed earlier, in the entirety of 7 Sephiroth only managed to ravage a small mountain town, kill a flower girl and fat business man, and debatable whether it was his actions that ended Midgar. Kefka has a pretty similar resume in that he ravaged a small kingdom, kill an old man and a fellow high ranking officer in the Evil Empire. However, most people don't seem to realize that Kefka won during the World of Balance. His goal was to become an all powerful God, and he did it. Then he tore the world to pieces, and proceeded to sit in a tower and play Angry Birds with his Eye of Judgement to pass the time. Prior to the final battle he even tells you he's bored of it all. He's going to turn everything into nothing. ("I will destroy everything ... I will create a monument to non-existence!") He was prepared to die because he simply had nothing else left to do. Sephiroth's goal was to damage/kill the world so much that everything except himself died so he could return it to the Cetra/Jenova/His Mommy. He didn't accomplish that. He came close, I'll grant that. But he didn't succeed even at the end of the game, whereas Kefka took only half his game to accomplish his goal. They both killed old men, but Kefka took the extra step of playing soccer with his corpse before launching it off the side of a flying island.

Locke x Celes felt real as well. Locke goes out of his way to rescue Celes to the point of making a complete *** out of himself near the end of the Opera. Then during the beginning of the World of Ruin, Celes basically gives up all hope and is brought back from suicidal despair by a bandana that reminds her of Locke and that it's possible he survived. Even during the end sequence they go out of their way to rescue each other. I didn't feel Cloud x Tifa ever reached that level. It's never been really explained why she just sat there while Cloud explained what happened to Zack during the Nibelheim incident but in first person. She just kind of smiles and nods. Cloud isn't who rescues her when she's being gassed by Scarlet. Even when she takes time out to take care of him when he's catatonic, he pretty much ends up treating her like his sister. He ends up pining over the dead flower girl who, at best, was only maybe interested in him. Aeris wasn't Cloud's Gwen Stacy.

Final Fantasy 6's graphics were high tech for it's time, but it was consistent. I'll grant that Final Fantasy 7 was new media, but the style jumped all over the place. One moment the game would be polygonal three dimensional gameplay graphics, then you'd go into decent full motion video cutscene, which were both fine. But then you'd get into weird gameplay character graphics in FMV cutscene backgrounds like it was a placeholder. And then there were the weird interactive half gameplay half FMV scenes.

I've got more reasons, but let's just end it here. On it's best day, Final Fantasy 7 was a watered down Final Fantasy 6.

Edited, Apr 12th 2013 11:30pm by lolgaxe
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#22 Apr 12 2013 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah MMOs are an excellent source of income if you don't take in development and other on going costs.

Hold on to just 50000 subscribers @$15 for a year and you've made $9,000,000.

That's a good number for any JRPG.

Something like Xenogears in their prime only sold 200,000 copies. I couldn't imagine what a game like that would do today. Especially when games like CoD are selling 25,000,000 copies.

----


FFVII can only be appreciated if you grew up at the time. Yes, you can still think it's a good game, but IMO if you weren't around when it came out you can't really fathom why it was so good.

FFVI was great, but FFVII was the first FF with polygons and better sound (quality wise). It had movies (that didn't detract from the story as most "blended in with the real time graphics), and it featured really cool, varied locales and offered a sweet materia system, love triangle, strategy games, motorcycle racing and snow board racing.

The summons were epic, because there wasn't anything like it before. It was in a "steampunk" world, and had a involved story, especially when you're a teenager.

It was on 3 disks, and it was a continuation of a series I grew up with, and was a huge part of my teen years.

There was very little/slow internet. I had to read EGM or GamePro, and I bought other Square games to play the demo. I actually bought Tobal No. 1 to play the FFVII demo. Basically there was less info overload, so playing a game was more of an experience; like listening to a whole album.

So, without sounding to grandfather-like, younger people will never have that experience that I had with FFVII, they just can't. And that's why SE can never go back, because that was a unique point in time.
#23 Apr 12 2013 at 10:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
re: FF6 vs FF7


Edited, Apr 12th 2013 11:30pm by lolgaxe



They are very, very similar. But at the time my jaw dropped when even a spell like Bolt was cast. The graphics (at the time) put it over the top.

Looking at it from a story point, VI I think had better moments and was focused more on the ensamble. There were more characters that I liked and had an affinity for than in VII.

Ghost Train and Zozo are just two unforgettable locales that managed to create their respective moods and this was just with sprites.
#24 Apr 12 2013 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
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Final Fantasy will never be as it was because the parts teams behind those games have aged or moved on to other companies. This isn't to say the future can't be great as well. In my opinion the older titles were great because they had a talented team led by a man, Sakaguchi who kept the series close to it's roots and kept the team from over complicating the process. Their most critically acclaimed games were directed by Hiroyuki Ito. I want to see him direct the next FF and see if he still has the touch.

You will see arguments about which FF was the best. The popular argument is between VI and VII. I like VI, VII, XII,IX, X, then all the rest in that order. VII regardless if it's a favorite or not was developed during the prime of Squaresoft. Almost everything they touched was golden. The thing it did that enveloped gamers of that time was that it took every FF before. They applied technology and showed a level of graphical prowess that left other competitors in the dust on that hardware. Yet it retrained all the gameplay and replayablity of the older FF on older hardware. Nowdays when a game pushes the envelope, the content is usually shortened or added through dlc later on. To be a gamer of this generation and with more choice and improvements made since then both graphically and gameplay aesthetics wise. You might play an older FF and not feel the same passion for it.

Let me try and give an example to express the breadth. Let's say your favorite games are Dark Souls and Demon Souls. In your opinion, everything about these games are done close to perfection. Now imagine that next generation consoles released and were a ton more powerful than current gen. You see other games releasing on the new gen shooting for power and you see big improvements power wise but you notice the gameplay being shortened or watered down. Or vice versa, you see other games not pushing the envelope but the gameplay is retained. You would gravitate towards the latter because this is an interactive and not passive media.
But what if Dark Souls 3 released with real time cgi graphics, particle effects, yada, yada, yada. And the gameplay was retained but even more visually impressive. DS 3 would stick in your mind.

Due to writing and pacing some gamers have preference over one FF to the other. But one can't argue the jump from snes to ps one is not evident in terms of power.

By the way you can also get V and VI on the psn as well.

Edited, Apr 13th 2013 12:53am by sandpark
#25 Apr 12 2013 at 11:46 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
re: FF6 vs FF7

Let's look at the two main characters, Terra and Cloud. They both start off as employees of their universes' Evil Empires with inaccurate and missing memories of who they really were. They both encounter the rebel faction, and spend time trying to escape the first town because they defected (Cloud defected before the start of the game, Terra escaped mind control). Half way through the game they're separated from their groups and once they're found again they don't rejoin because they've had significant changes to their mental states; Terra becomes extremely maternal for the orphans and refuses to leave them and Cloud becomes catatonic from Life Stream Poisoning. They're out until you return and they discover who they really are and what they really want; Terra wanting to be more proactive in saving her orphans and Cloud figuring out he isn't Zack and that being proactive in stopping Sephiroth is the best thing he could do.

Now the two main villains, Kefka and Sephiroth. They, too, start off as employees of their universes' Evil Empires, and they're both relatively friendly with their heroic counterparts while they're there. Both were genetically manipulated since the womb by the Empire's top scientists, and while the scientists know of the instabilities, both Kefka and Sephiroth are allowed to not only operate within the organizations, but advance to top levels. Even for their individual universes they dress peculiarly. When the opportunity arises, they both kill the head guy of the Evil Empire to continue on with their ulterior motives. When they both achieve their ultimate power they create dungeons that require flying and descending from top level down until you finally find them. Both have multi-tier final forms, the first being grotesque monstrosities followed by an angelic End form. You first find out just how mentally damaged both individuals are when they pretty much snap and take out a town with no regard of who lives and dies.

Both stories begin with the main protagonists fighting against the Evil Empire without a second thought to the main antagonists, who is at best just another enemy within Evil Empire, until said antagonists eliminate the head of the Evil Empire. Both stories explores the implications of genetic engineering. Both games end without really explaining what happens. Terra's group escapes the tower, Cloud's escape the meteor, but beyond that nothing. No, the movies and sequels and prequels and everything else of FF7 don't count because they're not ingame. Both games are also about the ramifications of killing God. FF6 was where Kefka moved the statues and became God himself, and Sephiroth was that the world itself was God and he wanted to essentially kill it for his Mother. Both Gods have weapons of mass destruction to protect them, the Ultima Weapons (Atma in 6). Both games have a single city attacked by the true main antagonist with a sole survivor, who comes back as a party member to avenge their loved ones.

Both game's characters were essentially blank slates, with a single unique ability (FF6 abilities like Blitz, FF7 Limit Breaks), but overall you could alter physical and magical attacks through relics/espers/materia so there were no true "classes" and what you'd end up with at the end of the game is 4/3 remarkably similar statistically and ability-wise.

Now, I feel a game just isn't interesting unless the villain is someone who seems competent. Excluding the similarities discussed earlier, in the entirety of 7 Sephiroth only managed to ravage a small mountain town, kill a flower girl and fat business man, and debatable whether it was his actions that ended Midgar. Kefka has a pretty similar resume in that he ravaged a small kingdom, kill an old man and a fellow high ranking officer in the Evil Empire. However, most people don't seem to realize that Kefka won during the World of Balance. His goal was to become an all powerful God, and he did it. Then he tore the world to pieces, and proceeded to sit in a tower and play Angry Birds with his Eye of Judgement to pass the time. Prior to the final battle he even tells you he's bored of it all. He's going to turn everything into nothing. ("I will destroy everything ... I will create a monument to non-existence!") He was prepared to die because he simply had nothing else left to do. Sephiroth's goal was to damage/kill the world so much that everything except himself died so he could return it to the Cetra/Jenova/His Mommy. He didn't accomplish that. He came close, I'll grant that. But he didn't succeed even at the end of the game, whereas Kefka took only half his game to accomplish his goal. They both killed old men, but Kefka took the extra step of playing soccer with his corpse before launching it off the side of a flying island.

Locke x Celes felt real as well. Locke goes out of his way to rescue Celes to the point of making a complete *** out of himself near the end of the Opera. Then during the beginning of the World of Ruin, Celes basically gives up all hope and is brought back from suicidal despair by a bandana that reminds her of Locke and that it's possible he survived. Even during the end sequence they go out of their way to rescue each other. I didn't feel Cloud x Tifa ever reached that level. It's never been really explained why she just sat there while Cloud explained what happened to Zack during the Nibelheim incident but in first person. She just kind of smiles and nods. Cloud isn't who rescues her when she's being gassed by Scarlet. Even when she takes time out to take care of him when he's catatonic, he pretty much ends up treating her like his sister. He ends up pining over the dead flower girl who, at best, was only maybe interested in him. Aeris wasn't Cloud's Gwen Stacy.

Final Fantasy 6's graphics were high tech for it's time, but it was consistent. I'll grant that Final Fantasy 7 was new media, but the style jumped all over the place. One moment the game would be polygonal three dimensional gameplay graphics, then you'd go into decent full motion video cutscene, which were both fine. But then you'd get into weird gameplay character graphics in FMV cutscene backgrounds like it was a placeholder. And then there were the weird interactive half gameplay half FMV scenes.

I've got more reasons, but let's just end it here. On it's best day, Final Fantasy 7 was a watered down Final Fantasy 6.

Edited, Apr 12th 2013 11:30pm by lolgaxe


Wow! If i could upvote you i would, because you just said everything i think of VI vs VII (Tho i might have been a bit harsher, on the Kefka vs Sephiroth)

In my eyes VII was an improved version of VI graphically with a watered down story/character develoment.
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#26 Apr 13 2013 at 12:12 AM Rating: Default
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IvanStine207 wrote:
Have you read what I said? Let me clarify again, I've beaten X, XIII, and XIII-2. I never gotten my hands on games before X and I have nothing against the games before it. I think that it is pointless for you to dwell on the fact that the games are changing out of your style and interest. Go find another game if new FF games have nothing to offer you anymore.



Edited, Apr 12th 2013 9:52pm by IvanStine207


So you beat 3 of the most Ez mode Final Fantasy titles in existance, and suddendly you feel like you know what Final Fantasy is ? Interesting... 3 out of 14 main titles.... Talk about Hard Core! Boy! Please do tell me why the fans that have supported this franchise over it's 25 years and the company by purchasing every other IP they released when they where Square should just move on ? We made this company what it is today, because the company had a level of quality that has dropped drastically over the last 10 years, it is not like we just woke up one day and said.... **** Final Fantasy! Also since SE agrees with us, they themselves stated that XIII was not up to par with what FF should be nor was XIV, so even they agree with us, but we should just move on because we are right ? Makes Sense!

Also just by reading what you said about WOW and your interest in FF, i can tell you are a casual player, by no means are you hardcore, real hardcore players do not concern themselves with what other players achieve or if they have access to their content, they are interested in beating said content first and and hardest, they are not worried about joe from some random guild setting foot in their dungeon, they are worried about a fellow guild/LS beting them on beating X boss first.

Unless you have played IV/VI/VII you should not even think about what FF is because you do not know what it is.
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#27 Apr 13 2013 at 1:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)

The narratives were pretty much on par with one another. A lot of the technological improvements in 7 helped create a sense of atmosphere that wasn't doable with 6. FF6 required you to imagination the level of ruination in the world--honestly, even in Narshe, Zozo, etc., it just didn't compare to the visualization of the Midgar slums. Everything that was darker was notably moreso, in contrast to the chipper protagonism of other games. Seven, at least in the U.S., was also one of the first to legitimately kill off one of your characters. (6's ending was much better though)

The gameplay was far more flexible and better fleshed out in 7 as well. Let's not forget the importance that has in, you know, a video game.

As someone who played them both in their time, I don't even bother trying to compare which was better. I don't think 7 was leaps and bounds above 6, but neither do I think it was a cheap knock off that was more flash than substance.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#28 Apr 13 2013 at 2:23 AM Rating: Good
I was content to just lurk, but I actually had to create an account just to respond to this...

Kachi wrote:
@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)

The narratives were pretty much on par with one another. A lot of the technological improvements in 7 helped create a sense of atmosphere that wasn't doable with 6. FF6 required you to imagination the level of ruination in the world--honestly, even in Narshe, Zozo, etc., it just didn't compare to the visualization of the Midgar slums. Everything that was darker was notably moreso, in contrast to the chipper protagonism of other games. Seven, at least in the U.S., was also one of the first to legitimately kill off one of your characters. (6's ending was much better though)

The gameplay was far more flexible and better fleshed out in 7 as well. Let's not forget the importance that has in, you know, a video game.

As someone who played them both in their time, I don't even bother trying to compare which was better. I don't think 7 was leaps and bounds above 6, but neither do I think it was a cheap knock off that was more flash than substance.

I won't get into the technological improvements at all, because that's very much up to the individual, though I would say the "visualization" of the Midgar slums pales in comparison to the choice of music, especially compared to Zozo. The themes used in Midgar had a feeling of foreboding and deep sadness that Zozo and Narshe simply didn't have, in large part due to the fact that they weren't the same. Zozo was mostly a joke town, after all, where everyone spoke in lies except for the one guy who said "It's dangerous here."

As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important. Aerith's death has never been special because it was the first, it was special because it was one of the first (scripted) deaths that properly dealt with the loss. When your characters died in FFII, it didn't really matter, because we all knew who was permanent when we picked out names at the beginning of the game. We all knew it was Firion, Guy, Maria and Leon for the endgame, and anyone else was temporary. When Tella died in FFIV, he had already gone past the point of being useful, and was more of a hindrance than anything else. I'd actually argue that point was reached the moment Palom & Porom joined the party, but I digress. When Galuf died, we felt that sense of loss for a brief moment as we remembered how much time and energy we spent on him, training him in various jobs, etc. Then...God, what's her name now? Cara? Krile? Is it back to Kururu? Anyway, she came along and absorbed all the work we'd already done with him and it was back to status quo, just with a female instead of a male.

But when Aerith died? I'd argue most players didn't even realize she could get up to her L4 Limit Break, let alone tried to obtain it. Most of the best stuff for her(the Umbrella, the Great Gospel, etc.) were likely obtained either post-mortum, or right after she left the party. Her passing left a huge gaping hole in the party, and it was felt in the story, even up to the ending.

As for gameplay, I actually would be more likely to give the nod to FFVI than VII, though they both mark a turning point in the series that I absolutely loathed. With FFVI, any character could learn any spell, so the only things that really differentiated them were the weapons they equipped, their special skills(Steal, Bushido, etc.) and the exceedingly rare desperation attack. With FFVII, though, there were only weapons, which were mostly irrelevent aside from appearance(any weapon Cloud got had an equivalent with pretty much the same abilities and Materia slots as everyone else) and their Limit Breaks. Aside from those, every character was essentially the same from a gameplay standpoint. If you swapped out Party A for Party B, you just had to switch their Materia and everything was fine. It felt cheap, and uninteresting compared to the Magicite System, which not only taught characters spells permanently, but also adjusted their stat growth, changing how they performed in combat permanently.

And, now I go back to lurking....
(I love almost every Final Fantasy before XII)
#29 Apr 13 2013 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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If the first FF you played was X, then THAT my friend is why you can never understand. The earlier FFs (and FF XII) in my opinion were simple works of genius (for their time.) It's easy to take a big dump on IV,V,VI,VII,IX never having played them in their time perspective. However, if the first you played was say... IV, then and only then would you understand.

Squaresoft was plain and simply an innovator back in it's day. Their games were unrivaled. Now they simply don't have that track record anymore. Can they get it back? I think so. Will they? I'll give them a fair shot at it... certainly not a 100% chance of getting back on top.

IvanStine207 wrote:
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/ybbqrs/gametrailers-com-memo-to-square-enix


After watching the video in the link above, I just rolled my eyes. If you did not watch the video it was basically old fans complaining about Final Fantasy games like XIII and you can presume they wish things were as great as VII. This all seems like game politics to me and in real politics I am conservative but in terms of game politics, when it comes to game play difficulty I lean farther toward the hardcore player direction but some might paint me as a liberal with other aspects which might qualify me as a moderate and I don't like being moderate xD.

Final Fantasy X was the first game I played from the Final Fantasy series and I really liked most of the games aspects except Blitzball because I sucked at it. I liked the music, story, characters, graphics, monsters, environments, and gameplay. I played it when I was in elementary school so I never beaten it for a while in fact I would sometimes just stop playing it for months and come back to it. Even today I would replay it again and I can't wait till the updated version comes out. I also played X-2 but I haven't beaten it yet. The main difference I noticed was that the gameplay was different and the game seemed to have more of a feminine edge which I didn't mind.

When I got FF XII, it was interesting at first but it didn't seem as exciting as X and the gameplay was difficult so I quit on it a long time ago. If I had it today, I would probably just play for the sake of beating it but I would probably use guides. Overall it isn't one of my favorites.

As for the XIII series, I liked most aspects of it just like I did with FF X. FF XIII 1 and 2 aswell as Lightning Returns have received the most criticism from Final Fantasy fans because of its gameplay and difficulty. The games to me were somewhat challenging to me but I did beat it quicker than FFX. The only difficulty I ever really met in XIII was near the end where I couldn't get passed certain trash mobs. I finished the game later on. As for XIII-2, I got lost with the time travel and couldn't progress through the main story line and I wasn't much of a fan of its music nor its two players and 1 Pokemon battle team lol. Now that I've beaten both, I'm now looking forward for Lightning Returns

I've never played any Final Fantasy game before 10 so that makes me part of the new crowd for Square Enix. I can see how some of the older players have problems with this the recent games, especially 13, because I too have played a game that has been out for a considerate amount of time. That game is World of Warcraft which I played for more than five years and I think its going down the toilet because Blizzard is catering to the casual players, the story isn't impressive anymore, and it lost its touch. I've actually stopped playing it and am waiting for FF XIV ARR to come out and be the new MMO I play because it seems promising with just about every aspect I care about in a game. As for WOW, I think it will be out for a while even though I sometimes think it's reaching its end time. I think I've simply just lost interest of playing it.

When it comes to the Final Fantasy games before FFX, I think I would give them a try if ever having the opportunity. The only thing that makes me move away from those games are the players that played them and heavily label these games as the worst FF games ever. Their criticism makes me think that the FF games that came out around my generation's times are the worst ever. These critics seem to love FF VII a lot and even judge FF XIV ARR which I think has potential to be a great game. I'm not asking for or saying that the old generation players to come together with the newer generation players, I just think its very annoying. The whole point of this forum post is purely expression and I welcome discussion on other similar or different views. :)

#30 Apr 13 2013 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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flamemasterelan wrote:
I was content to just lurk, but I actually had to create an account just to respond to this...

[quote=Kachi]@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)



As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important.



Hey don't forget Palum and Porum. When I first played I spent ridiculous quantities of time naively attempting to restore them!
#31 Apr 13 2013 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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For me, FFIV undermined character loss by constantly having character's "sacrifice" themselves only to come back in the end. I couldn't care about any of their deaths because the execution set up the expectation that they would come back, and they did.

Granted, I probably would have felt the same way about FFVII if not for the baffling decision to release the game without adding the option to restore her to life. Probably made the game stronger, but still, baffling.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#32 Apr 13 2013 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Well for starters I think Final Fantasy games are the best out there in when it comes to RPGs . I would like to see the demographics of the FF fanbase to see how much of old fans remain. The fact of the matter is this is just simply an old VS new debate and thst isn't really significant. All game series have their rise and fall time periods and sometimes it takes a bit of falling to rise up. Also do not compare me to casuals because I obviously have differences. When I find a game I like, usually I like and appreciate most of its aspects while most casuals only care about KILL KILL KILL factor of the game like Call of Duty and try to get to the highest level possible in the quickest way. When it comes to raiding, I can progress through bosses that casuals get stuck on when I'm on a good team and I study the boss beforehand. Most casuals only care about getting gear to dress their barbie doll and complain when the game is to hard for them. I'd prefer the older experience I had in WOW during Vanilla instead since there was more risk and reward in your leveling progression and not just anyone could dov the 40 man raids that did not have bosses just laying down and handing out free loot. WOW today would start losing money if they implimented a high risk and reward system like permadeath and lootable corpses which FF games dont seem to have like Ulitima had which my Dad considers is the best RPG and never did hear of FF series until X came out. Blizzard would aldo start losing money if they didn't let casual players to have the capability to solo round up 4-7 mobs with ease. Final Fantasy games are more difficult than other games and even the ones that you think suck.


#33 Apr 13 2013 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
Xenoblade Chronicles, best RPG to come out in the last 10 years imo. Went old school, great graphics for the Wii but sub par for any other next gen machine. Did anyone mind? Nope, why? Solid story and fun gameplay, but most importantly, solid story. SE just needs to take a page from Monolith on that one. It was the first RPG in years to make me want to play every day for multi hour sessions.

I don't know when SE is going to learn that shiny new graphics aren't necessary for success. **** you still have XI that's outdated to no end keeping people around, they obviously do not care that the game is not on par with today's graphics. And why they won't just remake FFVII or Chrono Trigger or **** a sequel to Chrono Trigger is beyond me. Love or hate FFVII, a remake would sell no matter what you thought about it.
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#34 Apr 13 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Default
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IvanStine207 wrote:
Well for starters I think Final Fantasy games are the best out there in when it comes to RPGs . I would like to see the demographics of the FF fanbase to see how much of old fans remain. The fact of the matter is this is just simply an old VS new debate and thst isn't really significant. All game series have their rise and fall time periods and sometimes it takes a bit of falling to rise up. Also do not compare me to casuals because I obviously have differences. When I find a game I like, usually I like and appreciate most of its aspects while most casuals only care about KILL KILL KILL factor of the game like Call of Duty and try to get to the highest level possible in the quickest way. When it comes to raiding, I can progress through bosses that casuals get stuck on when I'm on a good team and I study the boss beforehand. Most casuals only care about getting gear to dress their barbie doll and complain when the game is to hard for them. I'd prefer the older experience I had in WOW during Vanilla instead since there was more risk and reward in your leveling progression and not just anyone could dov the 40 man raids that did not have bosses just laying down and handing out free loot. WOW today would start losing money if they implimented a high risk and reward system like permadeath and lootable corpses which FF games dont seem to have like Ulitima had which my Dad considers is the best RPG and never did hear of FF series until X came out. Blizzard would aldo start losing money if they didn't let casual players to have the capability to solo round up 4-7 mobs with ease. Final Fantasy games are more difficult than other games and even the ones that you think suck.



So not only are you a FF Noob! But you are an MMO Noob aswell :/

Final Fantasy has never been Hard! Is the mainstream RPG out of all RPG's, is the COD of RPG! In suikoden II there is a fight mid game vs Luca Blight that is the equivalent of a final fight in FF universe, you need 3 teams, to beat the guy, and he does not holds back, Star ocean 2 was harder than most Final Fantasys, now i am not saying they are the easiest games out there, but to call them hard, is well kinda Silly!

Also on the aerith death, i cannot even believe somebody said that in the US it was a first.... IV released in USA, and there was main character death in V too, they where not a first for SE, let alone for the USA market, did nobody ever played Snes ? Lufia II was released in the USA, and it had a main character die, Selan died in that game :)

Also WOW would lose money if the implement a high risk and reward system like perma death, because that is a stupid design choise.
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#35 Apr 13 2013 at 10:32 AM Rating: Default
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Lol dude I'm not saying every single part of any FF game is hard but the games are definitely more challenging than most RPGs like Ni No Kuni for example. As for WOW, I've made more progression in raiding than most casual players and I think its stupid for you to believe that I'm noobish just because I care about other game content besides end game. Oh btw perma death would motivate players to be more skilled and it was an interesting game mechanic in Ulitima and I bet you would the noob whining about it. I'm not suggesting that permadeath is the only game mechanic of high risk and reward but I do think that it would seperate hardcore games and casual ones. What is the difference between a final fantasy game with its fan base and a football game with its fans, besides the obvious>.> There is no high risk or reward for the fans who nowadays just want a game that can only progress forward or up without the risk of having to build ones self up again.

Edited, Apr 13th 2013 12:35pm by IvanStine207
#36 Apr 13 2013 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Also on the aerith death, i cannot even believe somebody said that in the US it was a first.... IV released in USA, and there was main character death in V too, they where not a first for SE, let alone for the USA market, did nobody ever played Snes ? Lufia II was released in the USA, and it had a main character die, Selan died in that game :)


I said it was among the first for the U.S. audience. FFV didn't release until after VII in the U.S., and I've already explained how I feel about the deaths in IV.

I couldn't get into Lufia 2, so can't comment there.

There's also a big difference between O NOEZ WE KILLED YOUR CHARACTER and a genuinely meaningful or surprising death.

Edited, Apr 13th 2013 9:48am by Kachi
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#37 Apr 13 2013 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Also on the aerith death, i cannot even believe somebody said that in the US it was a first.... IV released in USA, and there was main character death in V too, they where not a first for SE, let alone for the USA market, did nobody ever played Snes ? Lufia II was released in the USA, and it had a main character die, Selan died in that game :)


I said it was among the first for the U.S. audience. FFV didn't release until after VII in the U.S., and I've already explained how I feel about the deaths in IV.

I couldn't get into Lufia 2, so can't comment there.

There's also a big difference between O NOEZ WE KILLED YOUR CHARACTER and a genuinely meaningful or surprising death.

Edited, Apr 13th 2013 9:48am by Kachi


Ohh but Kachi you should perhaps try again (to get into it that is)! Lufia 2 is one of the great RPGs to grace the SNES... Amazing story in my opinion.

Edited, Apr 13th 2013 1:19pm by je355804
#38 Apr 13 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Default
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IvanStine207 wrote:
Lol dude I'm not saying every single part of any FF game is hard but the games are definitely more challenging than most RPGs like Ni No Kuni for example. As for WOW, I've made more progression in raiding than most casual players and I think its stupid for you to believe that I'm noobish just because I care about other game content besides end game. Oh btw perma death would motivate players to be more skilled and it was an interesting game mechanic in Ulitima and I bet you would the noob whining about it. I'm not suggesting that permadeath is the only game mechanic of high risk and reward but I do think that it would seperate hardcore games and casual ones. What is the difference between a final fantasy game with its fan base and a football game with its fans, besides the obvious>.> There is no high risk or reward for the fans who nowadays just want a game that can only progress forward or up without the risk of having to build ones self up again.

Edited, Apr 13th 2013 12:35pm by IvanStine207


Dragon quest is and will always be harder than Final Fantasy, in fact Final Fantasy was originally a watered down version of Dragon Quest :) In final fantasy you usually are the avarage level of the area you are in because you level thru progression, why do you think there are "Low level runs" of every single RPG out there ? Because they are Hard ? And you have made more progress than most casuals based on what ? What have you cleared ? NAX 40 ? C-thun ? Sunwell ? Ulduar in Hardmode ? ICC in hardmode 25 ?

Perma death does not motivate players to be more skilled, it makes them be more carefull, and rely on cookie cutter builds that deal the most DPS per second and group configurations that would have the highest % of victory, also it would not work, because MMO and the companys that actually invest money to bring those games to us, are interested in making money, i know is a foreing concept around here, but companys do not make games, because they love us and they like ponys, they make games because they like money, and perma death would alianate 99.9% of the community, what is the point of a MMO if i am only playing with 3 other people ?

As for the aerith death thing, again it was not a first, nor was a first in the industry, nor was a first for the company, square was killing characters since the nes, sure for people who never played the earlier games, aerith death would have been a memorable moment, but not to me, it was buissness as usual, the only difference is what this time you got to see it in CG, which to me is not all that impressive, i am not a graphic *****, i am far more interested in context, than in how something looks, that is why i like Kefka as a villain more than sephiroth, kefka had substance, sephiroth was a watered down version of kefka, with prettier graphics. Just like lighting is female copy of cloud, with prettier graphics but no substance, outside of sazh(Wtf the name of the guy with the chocobo in the head) every single character in XIII was lackluster.

Oh i just remembered another death, Breath of Fire II Tigras Death! Also ogre battle, and ogre battle tactics killed main characteres left and right, well before the psx era.
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#39 Apr 13 2013 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
je355804 wrote:
flamemasterelan wrote:
I was content to just lurk, but I actually had to create an account just to respond to this...

[quote=Kachi]@FF6 v 7 (devil's advocate)



As for death, Tellah actually beat Aerith to it a long time ago, but that's not important.



Hey don't forget Palum and Porum. When I first played I spent ridiculous quantities of time naively attempting to restore them!

Well, I did brush over Palom & Porom, but like he said, FFIV did have a revolving door of sacrifice, 90% of which were overturned by the end of the game. I do agree that their sacrifices were powerful, though(I personally loved how the FFIV DS Remake handled every sacrifice), but at the end of the day they were never dead, the game always gave you hope that they'd be restored with the item selection(I always thought it would be part of the main quest, but it was handled off-screen).
#40 Apr 13 2013 at 12:20 PM Rating: Default
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You just clarified my sarcastic remark to someone else earliar about gaming businesses wanting to make and I'm still waiting for demographics of the current FF fanbase. Square Enix must think its going to make money with Lightning Returns even old fans thinks its going to suck. As for my progression in WoW, I cleared just about everything you listed except ICC. As for cata raids I started raiding near the beggining of the last patch because I that was around the time that I started playing and I noticed mosr people didn't any of the raids before DS except BH and FL since you could easily get epics from heroics. I guess that was just because Cata was reaching its end but the raid progression ladder seemed weakened. Permadeath was just an idea that i got from the game that first started major mmos, Ultima. This game had a good high risk and reward mechanic that most mmos dont have today because the casuals would cry and complain that the game was unfair and competition was ruining everything.

Edited, Apr 13th 2013 3:13pm by IvanStine207
#41 Apr 13 2013 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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I don't understand how people can compare the various games in the series. It has spanned almost 3 decades and has been released on various platforms. Over all the years, even the player base has changed. Those of us who started playing during the NES were just kids then, we've grown and our tastes have changed. We're not the same as that kid who would blow into the cartridge to get it to work. As the games in the series progress you might be drawn to some more than others on simply what you were into at any given stage of your life.

Furthermore, because there's been so many games in the series, it's inevitable that they would change the combat system, the stories, the characters, the abilities, etc. Otherwise it would seem like the same game over and over again.

Frankly, I didn't think FF7 was that great, but then again I didn't really get into it when it was released as I was starting high school and my focus was elsewhere, it sort of passed me by. However, as I got older and balanced a social life, work, and school, I was able to get some game nights in and enthralled myself in FFIX, without a doubt my favorite of the series, because of the effort and time I put into it.

Basically, I don't think you can really compare the series as a whole from start to finish, and it would be stupid too in my opinion.
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#42 Apr 13 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't understand how people can compare the various games in the series. It has spanned almost 3 decades and has been released on various platforms. Over all the years, even the player base has changed. Those of us who started playing during the NES were just kids then, we've grown and our tastes have changed. We're not the same as that kid who would blow into the cartridge to get it to work. As the games in the series progress you might be drawn to some more than others on simply what you were into at any given stage of your life.


Based on that logic, you can never compare things across a span of time. Comparing cars from the 80s to cars from the 2010s is also unacceptable?

Quote:
Furthermore, because there's been so many games in the series, it's inevitable that they would change the combat system, the stories, the characters, the abilities, etc. Otherwise it would seem like the same game over and over again.


Very true. I think the objection though is that SE has shifted their focus from substance to flash. We'd just like the substance back please.

Quote:
Basically, I don't think you can really compare the series as a whole from start to finish, and it would be stupid too in my opinion.


I disagree.

I think the only way you CAN track the development of the Final Fantasy series is over a span of years but with the correct frame of reference.

I've made no secret about Final Fantasy 6 being my favorite in the series and definitely on my list for greatest RPGs ever made. I actually think FF7 struck the best balance between story and technical ability. Square had a lot of new toys at their disposal, and they used them. But even with all the toys they told a good story, and told it well. Since then though, I think the balance has been off, and I think it's only gotten worse the further along in the series you go all the way up to 13 which is virtually ALL flash and just enough game to make it not seem like a tech demo.

FF1 was the first I ever played, FF4 was the first I was capable of actually understanding, and FF6 was my favorite. 7, 8 and 9 were fine even though 8's story was needlessly perverse, and 9 had one of the stupidest final bosses I've ever seen.

I've been a gamer for about 25 years, I've grown up with Final Fantasy. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to use that experience to talk about how the series has progressed over the years.
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#43 Apr 13 2013 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
I don't understand how people can compare the various games in the series. It has spanned almost 3 decades and has been released on various platforms. Over all the years, even the player base has changed. Those of us who started playing during the NES were just kids then, we've grown and our tastes have changed. We're not the same as that kid who would blow into the cartridge to get it to work. As the games in the series progress you might be drawn to some more than others on simply what you were into at any given stage of your life.


Based on that logic, you can never compare things across a span of time. Comparing cars from the 80s to cars from the 2010s is also unacceptable?


Well, what are you comparing? The design, performance, features, mileage, or the company's sales of said model? Even cars have body redesigns ever few years. Look at how sports have also evolved. You can compare the rules from various generations but you can't compare the players because although the sport is the same the athlete isn't.

I just feel that comparing an 8bit game to a 16, 32, 64, and so on is hard for the simple reason that as our platforms have improved so have the offerings of the game and what's it's capable of.

It's complicated. Perhaps keep the comparisons to titles that are on the same platform generation.

Basically, be careful in what you compare. For lack of a better statement.
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#44 Apr 13 2013 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
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I second Lufia II. The ending of that game can pull many a heart-strings.
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#45 Apr 13 2013 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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The allure of FF games to me was never their difficulty. Some puzzles were hard, some fights were annoyingly hard, but the games themselves were meant to be playable by adolescents.

What FF games promised and what made them above average was the amazing amount of work put into world building and storytelling. A FF game's rules set makes the rules of a D&D handbook look slender. Each world has its own rules, its own laws, its own logic. Rikku's limit break in X and its hundreds of combinations was quite possibly my favorite random little tidbit from any of the games - it was fun because you never knew what you'd get, and it turns out that stuff like the Potato Masher did massive damage.
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#46 Apr 14 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?
#48 Apr 14 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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All Final Fantasy games, aside from the obvious examples of X-II and such, are separate in terms of the stories, characters, and in-world rules.

For the most part, they have common thematic and symbolic connections, but "A" in FFVI doesn't equal "A" in FFVIII or "A" in FFXIV. Think along the lines of this; William Gibson has written numerous cyberpunk novels with common themes and imagery, but unless he explicitly says so they aren't happening concurrently.
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#49 Apr 14 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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IvanStine207 wrote:
I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?


Love me some IX. I'm not a good one to ask though, I love them all. People have ones they really dislike but I've enjoyed every single one in some way or another. I'm a cheap date I know Smiley: frown

Edited, Apr 14th 2013 8:01pm by Wint
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#50 Apr 14 2013 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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IvanStine207 wrote:
I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?


IX is a solid title, i enjoy playing the first CD for reasons that baffle me still, not that the other ones are lacking, but the mist continent just has something that i really enjoy XD!

You should try VI-VII-VIII if you liked those, try IV-V and then X or XII. Or just try them all XD!
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#51 Apr 14 2013 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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[quote]
Wint wrote:
IvanStine207 wrote:
I just bought FF IX yesterday and got tohe Ice Cave after the first boss. Once I finish it I'm not sure which one I will go for next but can you tell me if VI, VII, and VIII are connected or are they their own separate stories?


Love me some IX. I'm not a good one to ask though, I love them all. People have ones they really dislike but I've enjoyed every single one in some way or another. I'm a cheap date I know Smiley: frown


ff9 was awesome. I liked how 9 went back to it's roots and created an atmosphere reminiscent of older titles. Which is why i probably liked it 6 is my favorite. I have to say though 9 gave me the biggest **** off ever when my run for excalibur 2 ended when i realized i miscalculated my time and missed it by 5 minutes. that was A LOT of time put into that 12 hour run. One day excalibur 2 one day...

Edited, Apr 14th 2013 11:17pm by Keysofgaruda
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