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#1 Apr 15 2013 at 12:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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I just wanted to tell everyone, this is how you know you play to many video games or talk about video games to much.

I walked to the sliding glass window, looked outside, and the first thing that popped into my head was "those are some really good graphics." Then I started laughing uncontrollably because I couldn't believe I really said that to myself.

Which leads me to a topic, at that point will improved graphics stop and does it even matter? On that note, where does ARR stand vs. 1.0 and other games now a days? Personally, I think 1.0 had much better graphics but I guess I can't say that since 2.0 is not all prom'd up yet. Care to talk about it?
#2 Apr 15 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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WFOAssassin wrote:
I walked to the sliding glass window, looked outside, and the first thing that popped into my head was "those are some really good graphics."
Yeah, but a lot like modern games the gameplay and story suck and only lasts like ten hours.
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#3 Apr 15 2013 at 12:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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We're far from the plateau of graphical improvements in games. They've come a long way since the 80's for sure, but no where near what computers will be capable of producing in the future.

1.0 had better graphics, but the engine was terrible and the environments were dead and frustrating. I'll take a notch down on visuals to improve gameplay and atmosphere any day of the week. I still play WoW from time to time. Say what you want about the graphics, the art style works and at least there are things to do and fluid gameplay to enjoy. 2.0 will most likely look better in the final product as you said.

Entertainment > Graphics.
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#4 Apr 15 2013 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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I think we're already to a point where graphics don't need to look better; that is, we've managed to cross the uncanny valley. Will they continue to look better and my, won't that be nice? Yes. But modern systems already provide a canvas with which one can make viewers "Ah" and "Ooh," and frankly, at a certain point, "more realistic" fails to be impressive. More realistic isn't necessarily better.

For the vast majority of people, we've reached a point where in terms of technical specifications, improved graphics will not meaningfully contribute to their enjoyment of the game. Better general design, user interface, social systems, etc. are all infinitely in greater need of improvement. Any game that's made to the specifications of today could look good a hundred years from now.
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#5 Apr 15 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
We're far from the plateau of graphical improvements in games. They've come a long way since the 80's for sure, but no where near what computers will be capable of producing in the future.

1.0 had better graphics, but the engine was terrible and the environments were dead and frustrating. I'll take a notch down on visuals to improve gameplay and atmosphere any day of the week. I still play WoW from time to time. Say what you want about the graphics, the art style works and at least there are things to do and fluid gameplay to enjoy. 2.0 will most likely look better in the final product as you said.

Entertainment > Graphics.



1.0 had better graphics? umm ARR looks just the same or better than 1.0 to me...
#6 Apr 15 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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2.0's system doesn't show quite as much detail from what I've seen. Then again, I'm not in {NDA}, so I don't know first hand. Only from screen shots officially posted by SE.

I agree with Kachi completely btw. I like stylized visuals in my fantasy games. Leave the realistic stuff to FPS and Action games imo.
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#7 Apr 15 2013 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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Would photorealistic (if that's the proper term) graphics even be warranted? The first game that comes to mind is the GTA franchise. Bludgeoning and running people over... Not sure I'd enjoy the game as much if it were too 'real'.
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#8 Apr 15 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Good
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I think we're somewhere near the top of the graphics plateau, but now it gets to the point of what you can do with those graphics. Right now it seems we can't do a lot of seamless gameplay with very unique and high quality graphics and better processors/etc in the future should solve that problem.
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#9 Apr 15 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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^Yeah, right now it's sort of a matter of choosing between good graphics or highly interactive play. It probably wouldn't be possible for a game like Minecraft for example to handle processing all of the environmental data that it has along with all of the graphical data. Even with a high end computer, I think it'd just be too much to process. MMOs in particular are not pushing the technology when it comes to gameplay because they don't feel comfortable with the performance, but so many assets are stored client side that they can crank those up more easily without worry of bottlenecking data.

Right now we're at a point where machines can handle the graphical load better than the infrastructure can handle gameplay processing. Hopefully that will be changing with the infrastructure improvements that are up and coming (in select regions at least; I think Kansas City, MO has been selected for a demo with fiberoptic internet).
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#10 Apr 15 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Default
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ShindaUsagi wrote:
Would photorealistic (if that's the proper term) graphics even be warranted? The first game that comes to mind is the GTA franchise. Bludgeoning and running people over... Not sure I'd enjoy the game as much if it were too 'real'.


Higher graphic quality doesn't necessarily mean more realistic.

In regards to FFXIV: ARR, they seem to have downgraded the graphics significantly in terms of textures and lighting.

The graphics aren't a big deal to me, but I do think Yoshi-P should stop talking about how he wants the graphics of ARR to always be ahead of the curve when there are already other MMORPGs with better graphics at the moment (than ARR).

Edited, Apr 15th 2013 6:51pm by Killua125
#11 Apr 15 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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I feel that ARR's graphics are improved overall compared to 1.0 - the textures are reduced, but they dynamic lighting and shadow engines are significantly improved. The result is that the game feels more alive, even if it's not quite as detailed.

Personally, I didn't need to see every twiny thread on my peasant's potato sack top in 1.0.... it just made me more depressed that I was dressed like a beggar.
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#12 Apr 15 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with a lot of you, which also is supported by others because all of you have good ratings.

I think I like the argument of Graphics vs. Game Play. I think 1.0 was a very pretty game but the world was dead. They were focusing to much on, as Catwho put it, my beggar outfit and not enough, imo, the environment, the world,. I know that they are addressing that issue in ARR.

I guess its hard to say and its different for everyone. I personally would love an awesome game with dumbed down graphics because the game would be more enjoyable, better AI, better UI, just more fun. Tons of games have made the switch to true beauty comes from the looks NOT from the heart and to be blunt, it ****** me off. That however is another argument... Unless we are about to change topics, but maybe we should stick to graphics.

I don't know how I really feel. I love the way we can use colors now and I love how smooth it looks when I do something illegal with my guns in a violent game. I think we're at a plateau but at the same time I may have said the same thing when GTA VI and FFX came out. I look at the CS from MGS5 and wonder how feakin sick that game is going to look, I guess one day we will have to have "retina gaming" where they install Google Glass directly into your eye and you can turn the real world into a video game or at the very least they could be terminator vision simulators, lol.
#13 Apr 15 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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The problem I see with graphics currently is that they are outpacing Storyline. We are seeing better and more realistic graphics with stories still be written by game makers while oddly games are becoming more cinematic driven. At some point Hollywood writers need to step in...or at least someone needs to step in who has the ability to deliver intriguing stories with great voice acting. If you think about it (or at least if I think about it) most games are equal to really, really terrible movies that would never sell in a theater: Corny unbelievable sci-fi stories with aweful camera angles, voices, etc.
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#14 Apr 15 2013 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
The problem I see with graphics currently is that they are outpacing Storyline. We are seeing better and more realistic graphics with stories still be written by game makers while oddly games are becoming more cinematic driven. At some point Hollywood writers need to step in...or at least someone needs to step in who has the ability to deliver intriguing stories with great voice acting. If you think about it (or at least if I think about it) most games are equal to really, really terrible movies that would never sell in a theater: Corny unbelievable sci-fi stories with aweful camera angles, voices, etc.


I like this idea. I wonder what one of them could come up with but then again a lot of the movies out now aren't worth watching either...
#15 Apr 15 2013 at 7:48 PM Rating: Good
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I have to disagree, writing for a movie and writing for a game are two completely different beasts.

I could see a hollywood writer having difficulty coming up with many different lines for many different situations and would cause a game to be far more linear than it should be.
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#16 Apr 15 2013 at 7:51 PM Rating: Good
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I could be wrong, but I think most MMO studios hire writers based on an audition period, not unlike the screenplay review process in Hollywood.

I don't really consider myself a writer although I do have to make a lot of narrative decisions; however, I appreciate the fact that both game design and narrative writing are not generally well understood methodologies. Most writers can't write great books/movies and most game designers can't design great games. I think as forms of entertainment media, the reasons are generally the same and that understanding one allows you to understand the other. And on my usual rant, most game designers don't understand player psychology and most writers don't understand reader psychology. Even when you do, it doesn't make the task easy--just easier to assess your progress. But that usually leads one to say, "This is crap; I have to redo it."

Now that I think of it, I don't think they generally have someone who fills the role of an editor on staff. They probably peer review, but the bottom line is that writing for an MMO generally involves a lot of fragmented, team-oriented scenario writing, where screenplays are generally unified under a single author who spends years writing one story.

I'm tired and drunk, so apologies if my musings here are sort of incoherent.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#17 Apr 15 2013 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think we're at a plateau on graphic. I believe they will only improve as we get into nano technologies. Personally, I think within the next 10-12 years, or so, we'll be able to enter virtual reality worlds and gaming won't take place on just a screen or system, but all around us. Maybe even within our living rooms and bedrooms.

I feel that we've hit our peek with gaming systems. The PS4 and the new Xbox will probably be the last 'consoles' in gaming. Consoles, as in systems you plug in and play.

Google has shown us what's possible within Google Glasses and Samsung has motion technology readily available. It's inevitable that those will combine. Gaming will change again.
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#18 Apr 15 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Just to echo some of the posters here: graphics today are very good, but can be a lot better. If graphics get too real in addition to better AI and story, it's going to be very difficult to play "violent" video games IMO.

I don't think I'd want realistic graphics in a game like FF. If anything I'd want the game to look like a piece of Amano's artwork.

Personally I'd like to see better stories, better AI before anymore leaps in graphics, but I have a feeling that won't be the case.
#19 Apr 15 2013 at 8:17 PM Rating: Default
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ACLinjury wrote:
Personally, I think within the next 10-12 years, or so, we'll be able to enter virtual reality worlds and gaming won't take place on just a screen or system, but all around us.


... within 10-12 years?! You're optimistic.

I hope I get to experience a totally immersive VR before I'm dead, but I doubt it'll be in 12 years.
#20 Apr 15 2013 at 8:46 PM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
I don't think we're at a plateau on graphic. I believe they will only improve as we get into nano technologies. Personally, I think within the next 10-12 years, or so, we'll be able to enter virtual reality worlds and gaming won't take place on just a screen or system, but all around us. Maybe even within our living rooms and bedrooms.


People have been saying this FOREVER. And we all know how well Virtual Boy did.
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#21 Apr 15 2013 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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They failed because they strayed from the course of spinach green! Red? Pfah! The arrogant fools!
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#22 Apr 15 2013 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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Final Fantasy 14 eat your heart out. The first link is real time and is more cinematic. The second link shows some in game footage from next gen graphics.

Next generation graphics Unreal 4 engine real time demo.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/03/29/epic-shows-off-next-gen-graphics-with-a-new-unreal-4-demo/

Battlefield 4 in game graphics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U
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#23Killua125, Posted: Apr 15 2013 at 10:38 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I bet people say this kind of thing during every gen. Smiley: lol
#24 Apr 15 2013 at 11:17 PM Rating: Good
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1.0 Was definitely prettier not that ARR looks bad, the maps are much better and so is the dynamic lighting, that being said, 1.0 had much better color and contrast.

From what we've seen the character models seem a bit plastic , but I'll reserve full judgement for now.

Edited, Apr 16th 2013 1:18am by samosamo

Edited, Apr 16th 2013 1:18am by samosamo
#25 Apr 16 2013 at 12:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hasn't WoW already proven that not only don't need the prettiest graphics to make an MMO a success (it was pretty ugly even by 2004 standards), but that you shouldn't have the prettiest graphics so more people can access your game with cheap computers? The more people who can access your game, the more subscribers you can get to play your game... as long as you put the bulk of your development effort into a fun, enjoyable experience that builds on what your loyal gamers expect yet appeals to the masses then you have...

Profit.
#26 Apr 16 2013 at 6:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
You don't need to prove anything. I think we all agree that A Realm Reborn's graphics are just average. There are even multiple free MMORPGs with better graphics.


I'm not sure that anyone will agree with you that ARR's graphics are "just average". Are they the best out there? No, but they are still better than the vast majority of mmo's that I've seen, and certainly better than all the other major MMO's I've played (WoW, lotro, GW2, Rift, swtor, TERA, etc.).
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