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#27 Apr 16 2013 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I bet people say this kind of thing during every gen.


You've much to learn, young one. They've never been able to say that. Two generations ago we were still playing games with polygon graphics. In the next generation we had just started to enjoy actual 3D modelling. This is the first generation with the capacity to create polished 3D environments, and that's all we ever envisioned--a cinematic gaming experience. We've already achieved that. Sorry if it wasn't enough for you :p

Thing is, most people are so accustomed to the visual tricks and effects in cinema, nothing we can do with video games will ever be truly impressive from a technical perspective--maybe from an artistic perspective, but not a technical one. Some things show well in trailers, but you're not even going to be processing it while you play the game. In a good game, your brain is focused on other things. As long as the graphics aren't a distraction, they're not doing a lot for your enjoyment of the game.

Frustrated that I can't remember the name for the effect, but this is basically due to bottlenecking of the working memory. In effect, the RAM of the human mind isn't able to keep up with the RAM of graphical rendering. Normally this aids you in suspending disbelief as you focus on what you're supposed to focus on rather than potential flaws, whether in limitations to character behavior, narrative plotholes, or even graphics which are not convincing under a microscope-- but we're not exactly at a tipping point with it. Most gamers are already conditioned not to be engrossed by a game unless the narrative and gameplay do their jobs properly.

It's not like I'm saying that graphics won't get better, but the question in any entertainment medium is: is it more fun? And while you can on some objective level say that better graphics are better, we all know that it's a fraction of a percent of the enjoyment equation for most gamers. A more beautiful game meant something for the first few generations. Now, it only really matters to videophiles.

I remembered: it's cognitive load theory. Related article:
http://www.nature.com/news/2004/040415/full/news040412-3.html
Edited, Apr 16th 2013 6:07am by Kachi

Edited, Apr 16th 2013 6:14am by Kachi
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#28 Apr 16 2013 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
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onineko wrote:
Final Fantasy 14 eat your heart out. The first link is real time and is more cinematic. The second link shows some in game footage from next gen graphics.

Next generation graphics Unreal 4 engine real time demo.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2013/03/29/epic-shows-off-next-gen-graphics-with-a-new-unreal-4-demo/

Battlefield 4 in game graphics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8HVQXkeU8U


/yawn

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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#29 Apr 16 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I always thought this was pretty nifty:

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#30 Apr 16 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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That's getting kind of uncanny valley there, actually.
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#31 Apr 16 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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That is pretty incredible.

I will dust off my Cray in preparation for Call of Medal of Battlefield Special Zombie Madden Black Ops 37 when it's released lol

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#32 Apr 16 2013 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
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WFOAssassin wrote:

electromagnet83 wrote:
The problem I see with graphics currently is that they are outpacing Storyline. We are seeing better and more realistic graphics with stories still be written by game makers while oddly games are becoming more cinematic driven. At some point Hollywood writers need to step in...or at least someone needs to step in who has the ability to deliver intriguing stories with great voice acting. If you think about it (or at least if I think about it) most games are equal to really, really terrible movies that would never sell in a theater: Corny unbelievable sci-fi stories with aweful camera angles, voices, etc.


I like this idea. I wonder what one of them could come up with but then again a lot of the movies out now aren't worth watching either...



I just want to hit the "like" button. Come on ZAM WHERE IS IT!?!?!

PS. Surprisingly the games that have most intriguing storylines and cinematics, for me at least, have been FPS. Battlefield 3 I thought was well written, well paced, and circled back on itself to make a real hollywood type movie.


Edited, Apr 16th 2013 3:29pm by electromagnet83
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#33 Apr 17 2013 at 1:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
WFOAssassin wrote:

electromagnet83 wrote:
The problem I see with graphics currently is that they are outpacing Storyline. We are seeing better and more realistic graphics with stories still be written by game makers while oddly games are becoming more cinematic driven. At some point Hollywood writers need to step in...or at least someone needs to step in who has the ability to deliver intriguing stories with great voice acting. If you think about it (or at least if I think about it) most games are equal to really, really terrible movies that would never sell in a theater: Corny unbelievable sci-fi stories with aweful camera angles, voices, etc.


I like this idea. I wonder what one of them could come up with but then again a lot of the movies out now aren't worth watching either...



I just want to hit the "like" button. Come on ZAM WHERE IS IT!?!?!

PS. Surprisingly the games that have most intriguing storylines and cinematics, for me at least, have been FPS. Battlefield 3 I thought was well written, well paced, and circled back on itself to make a real hollywood type movie.


Edited, Apr 16th 2013 3:29pm by electromagnet83


The half-life series had a very cool and interactive storyline. One of my favorites.


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#34 Apr 17 2013 at 1:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
WFOAssassin wrote:

electromagnet83 wrote:
The problem I see with graphics currently is that they are outpacing Storyline. We are seeing better and more realistic graphics with stories still be written by game makers while oddly games are becoming more cinematic driven. At some point Hollywood writers need to step in...or at least someone needs to step in who has the ability to deliver intriguing stories with great voice acting. If you think about it (or at least if I think about it) most games are equal to really, really terrible movies that would never sell in a theater: Corny unbelievable sci-fi stories with aweful camera angles, voices, etc.


I like this idea. I wonder what one of them could come up with but then again a lot of the movies out now aren't worth watching either...



I just want to hit the "like" button. Come on ZAM WHERE IS IT!?!?!

PS. Surprisingly the games that have most intriguing storylines and cinematics, for me at least, have been FPS. Battlefield 3 I thought was well written, well paced, and circled back on itself to make a real hollywood type movie.


Edited, Apr 16th 2013 3:29pm by electromagnet83


The half-life series had a very cool and interactive storyline. One of my favorites.




Half life is one of THE best games i have played. I have finished it like 3 or 4 times. Graphics are of course out dated but it doesn't matter the game is really really good. (plus there is a total overhaul mod that remakes the half life game, or its more accurate to say half of the game since it stops right when you are about to get to the alien world.)
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#35 Apr 17 2013 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
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Teravibe wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
WFOAssassin wrote:

electromagnet83 wrote:
The problem I see with graphics currently is that they are outpacing Storyline. We are seeing better and more realistic graphics with stories still be written by game makers while oddly games are becoming more cinematic driven. At some point Hollywood writers need to step in...or at least someone needs to step in who has the ability to deliver intriguing stories with great voice acting. If you think about it (or at least if I think about it) most games are equal to really, really terrible movies that would never sell in a theater: Corny unbelievable sci-fi stories with aweful camera angles, voices, etc.


I like this idea. I wonder what one of them could come up with but then again a lot of the movies out now aren't worth watching either...



I just want to hit the "like" button. Come on ZAM WHERE IS IT!?!?!

PS. Surprisingly the games that have most intriguing storylines and cinematics, for me at least, have been FPS. Battlefield 3 I thought was well written, well paced, and circled back on itself to make a real hollywood type movie.


Edited, Apr 16th 2013 3:29pm by electromagnet83


The half-life series had a very cool and interactive storyline. One of my favorites.




Half life is one of THE best games i have played. I have finished it like 3 or 4 times. Graphics are of course out dated but it doesn't matter the game is really really good. (plus there is a total overhaul mod that remakes the half life game, or its more accurate to say half of the game since it stops right when you are about to get to the alien world.)


Thanks you, and yes Half- life 2 was one of my favorite story/cinematic games. It was totally immersive, believable, and otherwise down right fun to play. I loved that game.
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#36 Apr 17 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
ACLinjury wrote:
Personally, I think within the next 10-12 years, or so, we'll be able to enter virtual reality worlds and gaming won't take place on just a screen or system, but all around us.


... within 10-12 years?! You're optimistic.

I hope I get to experience a totally immersive VR before I'm dead, but I doubt it'll be in 12 years.


I wouldn't bank on that. Google Glass is promising and if any company has the resources to throw at frivolous **** like VR, it's Google. I get the feeling that you just really don't keep up with things. You are about 5 years behind every discussion.
#37 Apr 17 2013 at 2:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Oculus Rift has more of a chance than Glass at this point.
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#38 Apr 17 2013 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
ACLinjury wrote:
Personally, I think within the next 10-12 years, or so, we'll be able to enter virtual reality worlds and gaming won't take place on just a screen or system, but all around us.


... within 10-12 years?! You're optimistic.

I hope I get to experience a totally immersive VR before I'm dead, but I doubt it'll be in 12 years.


I wouldn't bank on that. Google Glass is promising and if any company has the resources to throw at frivolous sh*t like VR, it's Google. I get the feeling that you just really don't keep up with things. You are about 5 years behind every discussion.


Google glass is not promising for VR...at all. It's going to be a very simple HUD that gives simple data and graphics. Like a layover for your world to display information. This concept and the concept of VR are so far from each other that I think it is a little egregious saying he is 5 years behind on every discussion. VR is a long, long way off. It took almost 10 years for the PS4 to be on the horizon and while those graphics will be an improvement, they will be only marginal relative to what would be required for VR. I'm gonna say 30-40 more years realistically at the pace that technology is moving.


...and even that is, of course, contingent upon how the impending moral objections that are going to be raised in regards to a totally immersive, ultra realistic violent videogame, will be handled.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 8:26pm by electromagnet83
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#39 Apr 17 2013 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:

Google glass is not promising for VR...at all. It's going to be a very simple HUD that gives simple data and graphics. Like a layover for your world to display information. This concept and the concept of VR are so far from each other that I think it is a little egregious saying he is 5 years behind on every discussion. VR is a long, long way off. It took almost 10 years for the PS4 to be on the horizon and while those graphics will be an improvement, they will be only marginal relative to what would be required for VR. I'm gonna say 30-40 more years realistically at the pace that technology is moving.


...and even that is, of course, contingent upon how the impending moral objections that are going to be raised in regards to a totally immersive, ultra realistic violent videogame, will be handled.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 8:26pm by electromagnet83


Oculus Rift would like to have a word with you. Seriously, they're already shipping dev kits.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 7:43pm by Wint
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#40 Apr 17 2013 at 6:52 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:

Google glass is not promising for VR...at all. It's going to be a very simple HUD that gives simple data and graphics. Like a layover for your world to display information. This concept and the concept of VR are so far from each other that I think it is a little egregious saying he is 5 years behind on every discussion. VR is a long, long way off. It took almost 10 years for the PS4 to be on the horizon and while those graphics will be an improvement, they will be only marginal relative to what would be required for VR. I'm gonna say 30-40 more years realistically at the pace that technology is moving.


...and even that is, of course, contingent upon how the impending moral objections that are going to be raised in regards to a totally immersive, ultra realistic violent videogame, will be handled.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 8:26pm by electromagnet83


Oculus Rift would like to have a word with you. Seriously, they're already shipping dev kits.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 7:43pm by Wint


That would actually be pretty badass for something like Battlefield 3. I guess I was referring to true virtual reality... a dreamed experience more or less in which you truly are IN the game.
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#41 Apr 18 2013 at 6:07 AM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Wint wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:

Google glass is not promising for VR...at all. It's going to be a very simple HUD that gives simple data and graphics. Like a layover for your world to display information. This concept and the concept of VR are so far from each other that I think it is a little egregious saying he is 5 years behind on every discussion. VR is a long, long way off. It took almost 10 years for the PS4 to be on the horizon and while those graphics will be an improvement, they will be only marginal relative to what would be required for VR. I'm gonna say 30-40 more years realistically at the pace that technology is moving.


...and even that is, of course, contingent upon how the impending moral objections that are going to be raised in regards to a totally immersive, ultra realistic violent videogame, will be handled.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 8:26pm by electromagnet83


Oculus Rift would like to have a word with you. Seriously, they're already shipping dev kits.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 7:43pm by Wint


That would actually be pretty badass for something like Battlefield 3. I guess I was referring to true virtual reality... a dreamed experience more or less in which you truly are IN the game.


You mean like Kid Chameleon? Without the real life death, of course.
#42 Apr 18 2013 at 6:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Some students are already working on a game for Oculus Rift:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/04/17/undercurrent-aims-to-bring-deep-sea-exploration-to-oculus-rift/
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#43 Apr 18 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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And when it finally comes out, gamers will call it too gimmicky.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#44 Apr 18 2013 at 6:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
And when it finally comes out, gamers will call it too gimmicky.


Most likely, unless the software is there. I could see it being very popular in the FPS crowd actually.
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#45 Apr 18 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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WFOAssassin wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:
Wint wrote:
electromagnet83 wrote:

Google glass is not promising for VR...at all. It's going to be a very simple HUD that gives simple data and graphics. Like a layover for your world to display information. This concept and the concept of VR are so far from each other that I think it is a little egregious saying he is 5 years behind on every discussion. VR is a long, long way off. It took almost 10 years for the PS4 to be on the horizon and while those graphics will be an improvement, they will be only marginal relative to what would be required for VR. I'm gonna say 30-40 more years realistically at the pace that technology is moving.


...and even that is, of course, contingent upon how the impending moral objections that are going to be raised in regards to a totally immersive, ultra realistic violent videogame, will be handled.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 8:26pm by electromagnet83


Oculus Rift would like to have a word with you. Seriously, they're already shipping dev kits.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 7:43pm by Wint


That would actually be pretty badass for something like Battlefield 3. I guess I was referring to true virtual reality... a dreamed experience more or less in which you truly are IN the game.


You mean like Kid Chameleon? Without the real life death, of course.


Basically. I mean TRUE (and realistic VR) is a very long way off. Oculus rift is a headset display. They've done such things in the past like the Olympus Eyetrek (I believe it was called). But those things are ultimately just up close HUDs although in Oculus's case it's fairly more robust. But for VR to really work you have to have supremely sharp graphics, superb AI, etc other wise you'll feel like you're simply experiencing a 2d game up really close. Like I said, 30-40 years minimum.

..when it comes to futuristicness, always err on the side of a long timeline. All too many future sci-fi movies have been made to look silly as we surpass their proposed future year. *cough* Back to the future *cough*

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#46 Apr 18 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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#47 Apr 18 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#48 Apr 18 2013 at 7:15 PM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
I don't think we're at a plateau on graphic. I believe they will only improve as we get into nano technologies. Personally, I think within the next 10-12 years, or so, we'll be able to enter virtual reality worlds and gaming won't take place on just a screen or system, but all around us. Maybe even within our living rooms and bedrooms.

I feel that we've hit our peek with gaming systems. The PS4 and the new Xbox will probably be the last 'consoles' in gaming. Consoles, as in systems you plug in and play.

Google has shown us what's possible within Google Glasses and Samsung has motion technology readily available. It's inevitable that those will combine. Gaming will change again.



I agree we have hit a plateau. Not only is technology advancing slower but we are now facing economic issues that are slowing it even more. By the time PS4 actually hits shelves it would have been what? 8 or 9 years since the release of the ps3 (math check please) ? Not only does there have to be technology to create more realistic games but their has to be an economic purpose to developing those games. Right now it is becoming harder and harder to make money off of consoles and games and thus, our old 4-5 year console turnaround is now almost 10 years....and will the ps4 really be THAT MUCH of a triumph over ps3? Probably not.

VR is going to require something different from what anyone is thinking: Quantum computing perhaps, or maybe the ability to send info into our brains where the brain itself is the powerhouse, creating the "graphics" if you will. I think the biggest thing that needs to happen to revolution gaming is the ability to construct a simple 3-dimensional sphere. Currently no such technology exists.

Every single object you see in games are made of squares rectangles, cubes, triangles, prisms, pentagons, octagons, or dodecahedrons. Since gfx processors have to render each of the "sides"on these objects it has become extremely resource intensive to render something that ultimately , even in the highest end game, looks fake if you look close enough. Ever notice the barrel of a gun in that video game is not a cylinder? No, it's an octagon. So I ask.. with current technology how much would gaming change if we could mathematically code a sphere, to be counted as a single polygon? My guess is that we'd be able to reduce the current polygon count in realistic games by such a drastic amount it would free our resources up for much more high resolution textures and other effects. The possibilities would be endless and I believe that here is where Virtual Reality will begin

Edited, Apr 18th 2013 9:20pm by electromagnet83
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#49 Apr 18 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I completely agree. Part of the problem with the Virtual Boy (of many) was that even though it simulated 3D, in every other way it was a tremendous step backwards in terms of graphics. Imagine how that will be when we finally get true 3D. We'll be back to the polygon era of gaming, only this time people are spoiled on graphics that are actually pretty good.

And development has almost always been the primary graphics bottleneck. Just because we have the technology doesn't mean that a developer can shore up the time and money to actually create an entire game with it. While advances in the software tools are making it much easier, it's not exactly painting a landscape in the park.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#50 Apr 19 2013 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
And when it finally comes out, gamers will call it too gimmicky.


A lot of people will complain that they can't type without looking at the keyboard.
"electromagnet83" wrote:

VR is going to require something different from what anyone is thinking: Quantum computing perhaps,

Quantum computing only has applications in a small set of applications like prime factorization. It has no foreseeable applications for general computing.

Edited, Apr 19th 2013 10:29pm by Dizmo
#51 Apr 19 2013 at 9:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Dizmo wrote:
Kachi wrote:
And when it finally comes out, gamers will call it too gimmicky.


A lot of people will complain that they can't type without looking at the keyboard.
Guilty as charged. Though I guess that'll necessitate voice chat integration or something. >.>;
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