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When can we expect a ZAM update?Follow

#27 Apr 18 2013 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Well my original post was based on looks and content changes and not the UI of the forum itself. Feel free to talk about the UI and karma but I think we all know this will eventually get locked because of it. Or, there are going to be a lot of resets, lol.
#28 Apr 18 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
So, there's no chance of that changing?

It seems to me like people down vote posts that they don't agree with. I give my points of view in a clear, non-provocative manner. The ZAM forums seem to have a sort of caste system where like-minded people are at the top and anyone with a dissenting voice becomes a pariah.

If you are making a whole new FFXIVhead(?) forum, you should probably look into a more modern karma system that's fair to everybody.

In response to your reasoning, I don't think anyone would be able to use voting privileges to 'retaliate' because they wouldn't know who voted them down.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 9:07pm by Killua125


I'm going to give you a little bit of advice here.

First, your posts aren't clear and non-provacative. They are Troll. What that means, is that your posts pretty much all argue a point, from which you have no base of reference or any inside knowledge, and then you subsequently refuse to accept any opposing viewpoints that are contrary to what you have already decided to believe. That is classic definition of Troll.

What you can do to correct this problem is completely delete your current account. Just get rid of it entirely. Then, start over and try not to be so close-minded and arrogant as if you have a clue what is even going on here.

This isn't a white knight forum. It never has been. Most of us, myself included, have been around since 1.0's massive fail and believe me I'm one of the ones who was most vocal about my disappointment. However, as improvements were made, my opinion changed and now I am no longer "cautiously optimistic"; I'm counting down the days to reactivating my account. The reason for that is because I don't allow blind hatred for systems in other games to cloud my judgment of this game. Your biggest problem is "hating" wow because of its great success. It is successful for a reason, and that reason isn't pretty graphics. It's systems that are accessible, make sense, and that promote fun gameplay. Yoshi-P taking lessons from that isn't the end of the world. On the contrary, it's the beginning of a new one.

As for the topic at hand, WoWhead is a terrific informational resource. A FFXIV equivalent would go a long way to keep the Zam brand relevant. I'd rather keep all my browsing in this one place than try to traverse another wiki, though the XI wiki for a time was excellent.

#29 Apr 18 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
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catwho, who's lower case c was better wrote:
No, our current crop of trolls deserve every bit of bad karma they've earned.
They're an embarrassment to real trolls everywhere. Smiley: frown
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#30 Apr 18 2013 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
So, there's no chance of that changing?

It seems to me like people down vote posts that they don't agree with. I give my points of view in a clear, non-provocative manner. The ZAM forums seem to have a sort of caste system where like-minded people are at the top and anyone with a dissenting voice becomes a pariah.

If you are making a whole new FFXIVhead(?) forum, you should probably look into a more modern karma system that's fair to everybody.

In response to your reasoning, I don't think anyone would be able to use voting privileges to 'retaliate' because they wouldn't know who voted them down.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 9:07pm by Killua125


I'm going to give you a little bit of advice here.

First, your posts aren't clear and non-provacative. They are Troll. What that means, is that your posts pretty much all argue a point, from which you have no base of reference or any inside knowledge, and then you subsequently refuse to accept any opposing viewpoints that are contrary to what you have already decided to believe. That is classic definition of Troll.

What you can do to correct this problem is completely delete your current account. Just get rid of it entirely. Then, start over and try not to be so close-minded and arrogant as if you have a clue what is even going on here.

This isn't a white knight forum. It never has been. Most of us, myself included, have been around since 1.0's massive fail and believe me I'm one of the ones who was most vocal about my disappointment. However, as improvements were made, my opinion changed and now I am no longer "cautiously optimistic"; I'm counting down the days to reactivating my account. The reason for that is because I don't allow blind hatred for systems in other games to cloud my judgment of this game. Your biggest problem is "hating" wow because of its great success. It is successful for a reason, and that reason isn't pretty graphics. It's systems that are accessible, make sense, and that promote fun gameplay. Yoshi-P taking lessons from that isn't the end of the world. On the contrary, it's the beginning of a new one.

As for the topic at hand, WoWhead is a terrific informational resource. A FFXIV equivalent would go a long way to keep the Zam brand relevant. I'd rather keep all my browsing in this one place than try to traverse another wiki, though the XI wiki for a time was excellent.



Smiley: inlove
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#31 Apr 18 2013 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the basic layout of all of this and the way it connects to the other forums so easily. I wouldn't recommend changing that. I would also like a sweet wiki, just like FFXI was. I really like that. Anyway, I don't have a lot of reference points or knowledge about forums. So, with that, I’ll let the "experts" lay out the ideas. I’ll just watch the show and see what I like.

The "Reputation" system looks cool though. But then you might have people spamming "crap" for awards...
#32 Apr 18 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Unfortunately the wiki is only as accurate as the community is willing to make it, I can't keep up with everything. If we went to a *Head site, I expect we would have the data and allow comments like we do today, which I would think would put us above the official site at least a bit (I can't imagine them allowing comments on items, but at this point we have no idea what they're planning).
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#33 Apr 18 2013 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:

Smiley: inlove


I knew it was only a matter of time :p


WFOAssassin wrote:
I would also like a sweet wiki, just like FFXI was. I really like that. Anyway, I don't have a lot of reference points or knowledge about forums.


Wikis can be great, but when they go bad they REALLY go bad. WoWhead is a really great tool and just about every time I do a google search for info on an item, I end up at there, mostly for the comments sections. There is almost always an answer for specifically what I wanted to ask in those comments - like where something spawns with very clear instructions on how to get there or strats on how to take something down. It's a really good format for passing information.
#34 Apr 18 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho wrote:
I'm pretty sure someone is immune to karma for the first few posts. (Ten, or so?) So someone can come in, make a few newbie mistakes, but clean up their act and quickly soar to Guru by being witty and conversational by post 100. It's happened to plenty of people.

Very few people actually bother with the "because I don't like you" for posters - ****, there are posters in the Asylum, in XI, and in other Cross site areas that I dislike intensively but have grudgingly rated up because they've made a good point. Systematically rating someone down, e.g. karma camping, is considered bad forum behavior and when suspected can be reported to a mod.

No, our current crop of trolls deserve every bit of bad karma they've earned. Just because they can't figure out why we're rating them down every post doesn't mean they deserve it any less.

The first time I ever joined an IRC chat channel, I was naive and asked them moderator of the first place I landed, "I heard you could download movies and stuff here?" Within a few minutes of an increasingly hostile conversation, I was kicked out of the channel. I didn't feel like I did anything wrong, but as it turns out the pure chat IRC places resented the download piracy places because they assumed they might eventually get IRC completely banned. (Fortunately for the fansub industry, Bittorent and Pirate Bay turned out to be easier targets. IRC is still where you go to find fansubbed anime you can't get anywhere else.)

No matter what forum ratings system is used, there will be people who just don't "get" the culture that the rest of the forum has built up, and will have trouble fitting in. The karma system at least empowers regular users to deal with bad behavior proactively instead of tattling to a mod any time someone says anything stupid.


You know i would agree but i've seen personally when someone downgraded me just because he didn't agree with what i said. Don't who of course but since my post had no aggressive comments or w/e its only natural to believe he just didn't like the content.

As for IRC yea anime/manga...long time admin for a group like that, now retired. hehe
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#35 Apr 18 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Some people do that, and I try to keep an eye on things so it's not excessive.
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#36 Apr 18 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
My vote would be Mog-head actually Smiley: tongue


plz not Mog-head.. The images... my brain is forever unclean..
#37 Apr 18 2013 at 10:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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silverhope wrote:
Wint wrote:
My vote would be Mog-head actually Smiley: tongue


plz not Mog-head.. The images... my brain is forever unclean..


CLICK THE POMPOM TO LOGIN
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#38 Apr 18 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
silverhope wrote:
Wint wrote:
My vote would be Mog-head actually Smiley: tongue


plz not Mog-head.. The images... my brain is forever unclean..


Caress and tease the pom pom gently to log in


Fixed.
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#39 Apr 18 2013 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh a lot of people will down vote just because they do not agree, that is no secret Smiley: lol I mean i remember when i was decent and i said "In order for XIV to survive it will need to move more towards wow than XI.....Got sent to default" Yet that is exactly what they did Smiley: lol
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#40 Apr 18 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
So, there's no chance of that changing?

It seems to me like people down vote posts that they don't agree with. I give my points of view in a clear, non-provocative manner. The ZAM forums seem to have a sort of caste system where like-minded people are at the top and anyone with a dissenting voice becomes a pariah.

If you are making a whole new FFXIVhead(?) forum, you should probably look into a more modern karma system that's fair to everybody.

In response to your reasoning, I don't think anyone would be able to use voting privileges to 'retaliate' because they wouldn't know who voted them down.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 9:07pm by Killua125


I'm going to give you a little bit of advice here.

First, your posts aren't clear and non-provacative. They are Troll. What that means, is that your posts pretty much all argue a point, from which you have no base of reference or any inside knowledge, and then you subsequently refuse to accept any opposing viewpoints that are contrary to what you have already decided to believe. That is classic definition of Troll.

What you can do to correct this problem is completely delete your current account. Just get rid of it entirely. Then, start over and try not to be so close-minded and arrogant as if you have a clue what is even going on here.

This isn't a white knight forum. It never has been. Most of us, myself included, have been around since 1.0's massive fail and believe me I'm one of the ones who was most vocal about my disappointment. However, as improvements were made, my opinion changed and now I am no longer "cautiously optimistic"; I'm counting down the days to reactivating my account. The reason for that is because I don't allow blind hatred for systems in other games to cloud my judgment of this game. Your biggest problem is "hating" wow because of its great success. It is successful for a reason, and that reason isn't pretty graphics. It's systems that are accessible, make sense, and that promote fun gameplay. Yoshi-P taking lessons from that isn't the end of the world. On the contrary, it's the beginning of a new one.

As for the topic at hand, WoWhead is a terrific informational resource. A FFXIV equivalent would go a long way to keep the Zam brand relevant. I'd rather keep all my browsing in this one place than try to traverse another wiki, though the XI wiki for a time was excellent.




Personally I take no issue with Killua's posts (or at least they haven't struck me in such a way that I'd notice). He does seem to get rated down at times just for being a voice of dissent, even when he's making fair points in a respectful and articulate way. I've even bothered to rate some of his posts back up, and I generally could give half a sh*t about rating anyone.

Does he gripe excessively? Yes. My solution to that is to skip any tl;dr gripes. Save the rate-downs for people who are being petulant twats.

Edited, Apr 18th 2013 10:19am by Kachi
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#41 Apr 18 2013 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
So, there's no chance of that changing?

It seems to me like people down vote posts that they don't agree with. I give my points of view in a clear, non-provocative manner. The ZAM forums seem to have a sort of caste system where like-minded people are at the top and anyone with a dissenting voice becomes a pariah.

If you are making a whole new FFXIVhead(?) forum, you should probably look into a more modern karma system that's fair to everybody.

In response to your reasoning, I don't think anyone would be able to use voting privileges to 'retaliate' because they wouldn't know who voted them down.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 9:07pm by Killua125


I'm going to give you a little bit of advice here.

First, your posts aren't clear and non-provacative. They are Troll. What that means, is that your posts pretty much all argue a point, from which you have no base of reference or any inside knowledge, and then you subsequently refuse to accept any opposing viewpoints that are contrary to what you have already decided to believe. That is classic definition of Troll.

What you can do to correct this problem is completely delete your current account. Just get rid of it entirely. Then, start over and try not to be so close-minded and arrogant as if you have a clue what is even going on here.

This isn't a white knight forum. It never has been. Most of us, myself included, have been around since 1.0's massive fail and believe me I'm one of the ones who was most vocal about my disappointment. However, as improvements were made, my opinion changed and now I am no longer "cautiously optimistic"; I'm counting down the days to reactivating my account. The reason for that is because I don't allow blind hatred for systems in other games to cloud my judgment of this game. Your biggest problem is "hating" wow because of its great success. It is successful for a reason, and that reason isn't pretty graphics. It's systems that are accessible, make sense, and that promote fun gameplay. Yoshi-P taking lessons from that isn't the end of the world. On the contrary, it's the beginning of a new one.

As for the topic at hand, WoWhead is a terrific informational resource. A FFXIV equivalent would go a long way to keep the Zam brand relevant. I'd rather keep all my browsing in this one place than try to traverse another wiki, though the XI wiki for a time was excellent.




Personally I take no issue with Killua's posts (or at least they haven't struck me in such a way that I'd notice). He does seem to get rated down at times just for being a voice of dissent, even when he's making fair points in a respectful and articulate way. I've even bothered to rate some of his posts back up, and I generally could give half a sh*t about rating anyone.

Does he gripe excessively? Yes. My solution to that is to skip any tl;dr gripes. Save the rate-downs for people who are being petulant twats.

Edited, Apr 18th 2013 10:19am by Kachi


Are we reading the same forum? Smiley: smile
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#42 Apr 18 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Personally I take no issue with Killua's posts (or at least they haven't struck me in such a way that I'd notice). He does seem to get rated down at times just for being a voice of dissent, even when he's making fair points in a respectful and articulate way. I've even bothered to rate some of his posts back up, and I generally could give half a sh*t about rating anyone.

Does he gripe excessively? Yes. My solution to that is to skip any tl;dr gripes. Save the rate-downs for people who are being petulant twats.

Edited, Apr 18th 2013 10:19am by Kachi


Are we reading the same forum? Smiley: smile


I tend to agree, it seems like a fari amount of his posts come off as arrogant and "know-it-all". Even so, I still don't rate him down, because he's not being downright rude or flaming people. If he could get rid of the smugness, and say stuff like "I feel like FFXIV is similar to WoW, and not like FFXI" instead of "FFXIV is nothing like FFXI and is just another WoW clone", I think people would give him a lot more respect and less rate-downs. Saying your opinion or assumptions like they are facts is a quick way to get under people's skins. I should know, I've done my fair share of it in the past on these boards, and received my fair share of rate downs for it. Smiley: nod
#43 Apr 18 2013 at 12:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
So, there's no chance of that changing?

It seems to me like people down vote posts that they don't agree with. I give my points of view in a clear, non-provocative manner. The ZAM forums seem to have a sort of caste system where like-minded people are at the top and anyone with a dissenting voice becomes a pariah.

If you are making a whole new FFXIVhead(?) forum, you should probably look into a more modern karma system that's fair to everybody.

In response to your reasoning, I don't think anyone would be able to use voting privileges to 'retaliate' because they wouldn't know who voted them down.

Edited, Apr 17th 2013 9:07pm by Killua125


I'm going to give you a little bit of advice here.

First, your posts aren't clear and non-provacative. They are Troll. What that means, is that your posts pretty much all argue a point, from which you have no base of reference or any inside knowledge, and then you subsequently refuse to accept any opposing viewpoints that are contrary to what you have already decided to believe. That is classic definition of Troll.

What you can do to correct this problem is completely delete your current account. Just get rid of it entirely. Then, start over and try not to be so close-minded and arrogant as if you have a clue what is even going on here.

This isn't a white knight forum. It never has been. Most of us, myself included, have been around since 1.0's massive fail and believe me I'm one of the ones who was most vocal about my disappointment. However, as improvements were made, my opinion changed and now I am no longer "cautiously optimistic"; I'm counting down the days to reactivating my account. The reason for that is because I don't allow blind hatred for systems in other games to cloud my judgment of this game. Your biggest problem is "hating" wow because of its great success. It is successful for a reason, and that reason isn't pretty graphics. It's systems that are accessible, make sense, and that promote fun gameplay. Yoshi-P taking lessons from that isn't the end of the world. On the contrary, it's the beginning of a new one.

As for the topic at hand, WoWhead is a terrific informational resource. A FFXIV equivalent would go a long way to keep the Zam brand relevant. I'd rather keep all my browsing in this one place than try to traverse another wiki, though the XI wiki for a time was excellent.




Personally I take no issue with Killua's posts (or at least they haven't struck me in such a way that I'd notice). He does seem to get rated down at times just for being a voice of dissent, even when he's making fair points in a respectful and articulate way. I've even bothered to rate some of his posts back up, and I generally could give half a sh*t about rating anyone.

Does he gripe excessively? Yes. My solution to that is to skip any tl;dr gripes. Save the rate-downs for people who are being petulant twats.

Edited, Apr 18th 2013 10:19am by Kachi

As you shouldn't care much about rating. Base your value on other peoples opinion of you and issues with beliefs and self esteem pop up. Feedback is good if you think it applies to better you for you.
#44 Apr 18 2013 at 12:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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It just becomes exhausting to have to read the umpteenth post about the "wowification" of FFXIV. We can't have a discussion about what they are doing without WoW coming up and someone like Killua running off at the mouth about things they don't know about or understand.

Probably 25% of my posting history in this forum has been explaining a WoW system after someone wrote a generic post denouncing it without ever even having played the game (in this case, EITHER game). The misinformation runs rampant and it just gets tiresome. It's just ******* tiresome. I wish the admins would implement a rule similar to the Windower rule in the XI forums. Then maybe we could have a discussion about XIV without having to compare every pixel to something WoW did.
#45 Apr 18 2013 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Once the game is actually launched my hope is that we can discuss thing that are..you know..actually in the game. For now we're reduced to speculation. It's why I'm not so strict with off topic threads right now. Once the NDA lifts I'll be a little more vigilant.
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#46 Apr 18 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Once the game is actually launched my hope is that we can discuss thing that are..you know..actually in the game. For now we're reduced to speculation. It's why I'm not so strict with off topic threads right now. Once the NDA lifts I'll be a little more vigilant.


You could make a game out of it. Call it "Whack-A-Troll". Smiley: lol

Edited, Apr 18th 2013 11:58am by LebargeX
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#47 Apr 18 2013 at 1:06 PM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
It just becomes exhausting to have to read the umpteenth post about the "wowification" of FFXIV. We can't have a discussion about what they are doing without WoW coming up and someone like Killua running off at the mouth about things they don't know about or understand.

Probably 25% of my posting history in this forum has been explaining a WoW system after someone wrote a generic post denouncing it without ever even having played the game (in this case, EITHER game). The misinformation runs rampant and it just gets tiresome. It's just @#%^ing tiresome. I wish the admins would implement a rule similar to the Windower rule in the XI forums. Then maybe we could have a discussion about XIV without having to compare every pixel to something WoW did.


I don't understand. Yoshi-P has publicly named World of Warcraft as his main inspiration, and you just want people to ignore the similarities?

If anything, I would probably expect more people to make the comparison once Open Beta starts and the NDA lifts... Smiley: bah

I really don't know why it would bother you.


Edited, Apr 18th 2013 3:07pm by Killua125
#48 Apr 18 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
Torrence wrote:
It just becomes exhausting to have to read the umpteenth post about the "wowification" of FFXIV. We can't have a discussion about what they are doing without WoW coming up and someone like Killua running off at the mouth about things they don't know about or understand.

Probably 25% of my posting history in this forum has been explaining a WoW system after someone wrote a generic post denouncing it without ever even having played the game (in this case, EITHER game). The misinformation runs rampant and it just gets tiresome. It's just @#%^ing tiresome. I wish the admins would implement a rule similar to the Windower rule in the XI forums. Then maybe we could have a discussion about XIV without having to compare every pixel to something WoW did.


I don't understand. Yoshi-P has publicly named World of Warcraft as his main inspiration, and you just want people to ignore the similarities?

If anything, I would probably expect more people to make the comparison once Open Beta starts and the NDA lifts... Smiley: bah


No one's telling you to ignore anything. But that's all it is, similarities. It doesn't mean the game is going to be a WoW clone like you so adamantly assume. What we're trying to tell you is to stop acting like whatever you say is a fact when it's not. You have no idea anymore than anyone else, and it gets old hearing you whine about the same old stuff post in and post out when you know nothing of it.

Killua125 wrote:
I really don't know why it would bother you.


Lmao, really? That's gotta take the cake for one of the most trollish statements I've ever seen, considering it's coming from someone who adamantly refuses to understand other people's points of view.
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#49 Apr 18 2013 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Wint wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Personally I take no issue with Killua's posts (or at least they haven't struck me in such a way that I'd notice). He does seem to get rated down at times just for being a voice of dissent, even when he's making fair points in a respectful and articulate way. I've even bothered to rate some of his posts back up, and I generally could give half a sh*t about rating anyone.

Does he gripe excessively? Yes. My solution to that is to skip any tl;dr gripes. Save the rate-downs for people who are being petulant twats.

Edited, Apr 18th 2013 10:19am by Kachi


Are we reading the same forum? Smiley: smile


I tend to agree, it seems like a fari amount of his posts come off as arrogant and "know-it-all". Even so, I still don't rate him down, because he's not being downright rude or flaming people. If he could get rid of the smugness, and say stuff like "I feel like FFXIV is similar to WoW, and not like FFXI" instead of "FFXIV is nothing like FFXI and is just another WoW clone", I think people would give him a lot more respect and less rate-downs. Saying your opinion or assumptions like they are facts is a quick way to get under people's skins. I should know, I've done my fair share of it in the past on these boards, and received my fair share of rate downs for it. Smiley: nod


Perhaps it's just me, but I don't particularly mind if someone seems convinced of their opinion so long as they aren't overtly disrespectful of other people. If someone tries to tell me that pizza is the best food in the world and cookies suck donkey ****** I'm perfectly capable of both recognizing that this is just their opinion and that they probably KNOW it is their opinion. I certainly don't go around qualifying all of my opinions on the basis that someone might think otherwise. And really, why should anyone give a ****? If he's not being rude about it, then let him think he's the king of the internet.

All I'm seeing is a bunch of whining about a poster who is opinionated but inoffensive and easily ignored. The internet as usual, I suppose.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#50 Apr 18 2013 at 3:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also, as Wint said, there's ******* NOTHING to talk about. Let's all argue about nerd stuff. That's what the internet is for. As long as people are respectful about it, it's all in good fun.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#51 Apr 18 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Needs More Smut
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21,262 posts
Psssh. Let's talk about BEER.
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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
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