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ZAM's solutions to common MMO problems - post ideas hereFollow

#52 Jun 07 2013 at 7:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
Wint wrote:
Problem: LS's unable to work together on events/missions/story because of conflicting time zones.
Solution: Creating content that can be tackled by anyone in the LS at any time that each individual's contribution counts toward some long term goal. I haven't really thought this through yet because I'm kinda tired and I have to get up early to get ready for our vacation trip this weekend, but comments in one of the server poll threads got me thinking about this. How cool would it be if the LS leader could start the LS working towards some common goal and teams from the LS could band together to make headway when the time was convenient for them? That way everyone could participate without having to stay up late/get up early, and there could be come kind of massive reward that benefits the whole group once they finally accomplish what they set out to do. I'm thinking things that could take several weeks/months to finish. Long term goals.

Sounds nice. Isn't this what Free companies are?


Could be, this is all I could find on them:

Quote:
Free Companies
Gather four people, get in a grand company, go to the grand company counter, apply for a free company, and it will be created. At that time you will have a shared box with optional configurable permissions. By completing content your free companies level increases and you can create a unique emblem and expand other features. Allying with another company allows you to share a forum and other options.

You can also join a company as a guest to try out the company and see if you like it or not. Also you can invite low level players, and by helping them you can get points and special items. You can only have one free company at a time to prevent issues regarding these items.

By requesting permission from a grand company, a free company can become a subsidiary of that grand company. Despite the fact that free companies are subsidiaries of grand companies, you do not need to be members of the same Grand Company in order to create or join one. They also plan on making it possible to place your free company's crest on certain equipment. Current LS features will be carried on to Free Companies and it will be possible to delegate leader rights. As for Linkshells, in A Realm Reborn they will be treated as chat channels.


So depending on how they're implemented, this could work.
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#53 Jun 07 2013 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
sandpark wrote:
Wint wrote:
Problem: LS's unable to work together on events/missions/story because of conflicting time zones.
Solution: Creating content that can be tackled by anyone in the LS at any time that each individual's contribution counts toward some long term goal. I haven't really thought this through yet because I'm kinda tired and I have to get up early to get ready for our vacation trip this weekend, but comments in one of the server poll threads got me thinking about this. How cool would it be if the LS leader could start the LS working towards some common goal and teams from the LS could band together to make headway when the time was convenient for them? That way everyone could participate without having to stay up late/get up early, and there could be come kind of massive reward that benefits the whole group once they finally accomplish what they set out to do. I'm thinking things that could take several weeks/months to finish. Long term goals.

Sounds nice. Isn't this what Free companies are?


Could be, this is all I could find on them:

Quote:
Free Companies
Gather four people, get in a grand company, go to the grand company counter, apply for a free company, and it will be created. At that time you will have a shared box with optional configurable permissions. By completing content your free companies level increases and you can create a unique emblem and expand other features. Allying with another company allows you to share a forum and other options.

You can also join a company as a guest to try out the company and see if you like it or not. Also you can invite low level players, and by helping them you can get points and special items. You can only have one free company at a time to prevent issues regarding these items.

By requesting permission from a grand company, a free company can become a subsidiary of that grand company. Despite the fact that free companies are subsidiaries of grand companies, you do not need to be members of the same Grand Company in order to create or join one. They also plan on making it possible to place your free company's crest on certain equipment. Current LS features will be carried on to Free Companies and it will be possible to delegate leader rights. As for Linkshells, in A Realm Reborn they will be treated as chat channels.


So depending on how they're implemented, this could work.


Isn't there supposed to be a housing element to free companies too? I thought I remember seeing that in a letter from the producer.
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#54 Jun 07 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Excellent
reptiletim wrote:
Isn't there supposed to be a housing element to free companies too? I thought I remember seeing that in a letter from the producer.


Housing will initially be available only to Free Companies. Personal housing will be implemented at a later date.
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#55 Jun 09 2013 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
Problem: Trying to assist a player in finding something. Words do not always clearly communicate efficiently enough to help quickly.

Solution: Cross zone and Cross player map linking for marking area of interest.
A)You ask friend for help finding something.
B)You accept map linking.
C)Friend marks the map.
D)The mark shows up on your map.

Various symbols for marking maps:
Bomb= Enemy spawn point
Treasure chest= Treasure
Face= Npc
Tree= Node
Dollar sign= Shop
Candle= Event
Door=A door
Cave= Dungeon
Castle= City or town
Exit sign= Zone line
Foot prints= Pathing instructions(Records users movement for a two min interval and displays foot prints on map.

Edited, Jun 5th 2013 6:52pm by sandpark


I was hoping the game would have Map Marking abilities, like in FF11. I found it very helpful.
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#56 Jun 13 2013 at 11:50 AM Rating: Good
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I would like the following to make a dream MMO.

1.) Voice chat integrated with voice changers for your character sorta like that new game "the Division" where the voice comes from the player via radio. It would be cool if you could have voice chat where "say" allows others to hear you within like 2-3 feet, "shout" 5-10 feet, and "whisper" goes directly to a player. It would make the town seem really alive when you run by and hear "snippets" of voices as you pass through a group of players.

2.) I want to see the leveling system go away in favor a skill set questing system. Your character can for example take on a quest to increase his/her autoattack power and for more powerful special attacks or spells. Buying new weapons or staves would increase your power. In short, we don't need "levels" if done properly .
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#57 Jun 13 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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The ability to teleport directly to a friends is a real plus for myself.

I realize that many feel that direct teleportation reduces game immersion, exploration, etc. and also reduces the importance of airships, chocobos, mounts and movement speed bonuses.

I suggest a limited teleportation where you can directly to a party member once an hour, or even once a day, or a game day (which is what, 3 hours?).

-OR EVEN BETTER-

Make it where it only works with your actual friends. Make it a quest line and you have to complete the quest together to gain the ability to teleport to each other. Restrict it to members of your Company. Add a reason that it works into the Lore and story of the game. You are attuning to your ally, and now you can quickly come to their aid in their time of need. The cool-down is debatable, but once a day is the main purpose.

Log in > Go to friend > Play!, all in 60 seconds or less.
#58 Jun 15 2013 at 8:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
I would like the following to make a dream MMO.

1.) Voice chat integrated with voice changers for your character sorta like that new game "the Division" where the voice comes from the player via radio. It would be cool if you could have voice chat where "say" allows others to hear you within like 2-3 feet, "shout" 5-10 feet, and "whisper" goes directly to a player. It would make the town seem really alive when you run by and hear "snippets" of voices as you pass through a group of players.

2.) I want to see the leveling system go away in favor a skill set questing system. Your character can for example take on a quest to increase his/her autoattack power and for more powerful special attacks or spells. Buying new weapons or staves would increase your power. In short, we don't need "levels" if done properly .


I once played an EA game called "Majestic" that was real life integrated. NPCs would give you actual phone calls with clues, directions to go to special websites to get secret passwords, etc.

I played for three days then quit because it creeped me right the **** out. Smiley: laugh
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#59 Jun 20 2013 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
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This may have been posted or touched upon already,but I'm new to FF as well as to ZAM

It would be helpful if the mini map(in top right hand corner) had an option that you can set to scroll.... so basically if your traveling south it shows the south direction at the top instead of remaining idol and North always on top.

just a bit confusing thank you
#60 Jun 20 2013 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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PuzzyGalore wrote:
This may have been posted or touched upon already,but I'm new to FF as well as to ZAM

It would be helpful if the mini map(in top right hand corner) had an option that you can set to scroll.... so basically if your traveling south it shows the south direction at the top instead of remaining idol and North always on top.

just a bit confusing thank you


I actually like the way it is, your character indicator points in the direction you're traveling.

Edited, Jun 20th 2013 11:24am by Wint
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#61 Jun 20 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
PuzzyGalore wrote:
This may have been posted or touched upon already,but I'm new to FF as well as to ZAM

It would be helpful if the mini map(in top right hand corner) had an option that you can set to scroll.... so basically if your traveling south it shows the south direction at the top instead of remaining idol and North always on top.

just a bit confusing thank you


I actually like the way it is, your character indicator points in the direction you're traveling.

Edited, Jun 20th 2013 11:24am by Wint


yea thats true,i guess it just may take some time getting use to
#62 Jun 20 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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There's usually an option for locking and unlocking the minimap perspective. The field is pretty evenly split between people who want their character pointer to always be pointing up, and people who want north to always be up (I'm in the latter group).
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#63 Jun 25 2013 at 2:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I never understand how people can find their way anywhere when the map constantly points up. Surely you can navigate more easily when the map stays north up? I'd feel sick if it kept swirling about.
#64 Jun 25 2013 at 11:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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Problem: Endgame content is primarily a raid scene. At level cap, people without the ability to schedule hours worth of continuous play time into their lives will have a very limited amount of content to experience. This will limit character growth, gear options and overall enjoyment of the game = dropping subscription.

Proposed solution(s): Introduce content via the Grand Companies that allow soloers, duos and small PUGs to progress their characters in smaller time windows.

Escort Missions: Each Grand Company will ask the player to take either a chocobo drawn cart, single NPC or group of NPCs to a specified location. Depending on the time the player has available there will be short, medium and long escort missions available to undertake.

During the mission several possible events can take place. Examples include: Cart breaking down requiring crafter activity to fix (no specific class would be required), bandit raid attempts that must be beaten, chocobo breaking free requiring the player to locate/rescue. Other unique events could be included/added.

Difficulty/duration of events would be determined by number of players participating and whether the player chose the short, medium or long escort option.

Outpost Defense: Players will be able to assist with the building, supply and defense of outposts across Eorzea. Each Grand Company will have an NPC that tells which outposts are under threat of attack (with enough there could be an impending outpost raid quite frequently).

Gatherers will be able to go on missions to collect specific resources to bring to the outposts and add them to a stockpile at any point in time. Number and quality will offer GC Seals/Currency. Resources will be put towards barracks and other buildings = more guards/more potential defenses. Crafters will be able to craft weapons, armor, food, potions and other useful things and add them to stockpiles at any point in time. Number and quality grant GC Seals/Currency. Guards will be better equipped (weapons/armor), have more health (food) and be able to heal themselves (potions).

Crafters will be able to assist with the building of fortifications (walls, traps, ballista, Archer towers, etc...) during a 'build phase'. These will utilize generated resources and those brought by DoH (Higher quality goods = more structure HP). Each will give a bonus to the defense effort (ex: ARC and DoM can attack from towers to avoid harm)

During the attack phase DoW/DoM will face approaching enemies in waves of increasing difficulty (trash Melee/ranged/magic attackers, elites, NM Boss - mounted/siege would be cool too!). During the attack, defensive structures will be targetted along with players and NPC guards. Crafters will be able to assist in repairing these structures between waves or else they will be destroyed.

SURVIVAL MODE!!!: Every game that is remotely combat oriented needs a survival mode...

A GC NPC representing each company will be able to issue challenges to adventurers (1-8) to a 'training exercise' in which they are put in an enclosed, rather large, multi-tiered arena against wave after wave of enemies. Enemies will increase in number and strength with each wave. Enemies spawn at various (some inaccessible) points on the map in random formations/numbers to avoid zerging spawns with AoE madness...

Some waves will include elites, structures to destroy and NMs. Some waves will involve special objectives (ex: structure must be destroyed before certain mobs can be killed, certain points on the map need to be reached to access...something, guard a specific point, eliminate certain targets in specified time limits, etc...)

Each wave completion offers a modest GC Seal reward and renewed HP/MP. Waves continue until party wipes. Wipe returns player(s) to issuing NPC who gives final reward based on number of waves cleared and special objectives completed.


Each of these events will award GC Seals/Points (whatever they're called now) that can be spent at GC shops to obtain gear outright OR materials that can be used to craft awesome pieces that are comparable to raiding gear. Progression in this manner will not grant an instant reward (as opposed to a dungeon run where gear is awarded periodically and upon completion), but still grants players without multiple hour blocks of time available an avenue to get good endgame quality gear on their own time.
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#65 Jun 25 2013 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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Yes grand companies and free companies could be the driving force that keeps non hardcore raiders around or who don't like grouping in huge groups. If the content is meaty.

Good ideas!

Edited, Jun 25th 2013 4:08pm by sandpark
#66 Jun 25 2013 at 7:35 PM Rating: Good
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I fully support the ideas of Kashius. I think they are well thought out, and offer excellent opportunities for those who just don't have the time to commit to raiding several nights a week. Kudos. Smiley: clap
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#67 Jun 25 2013 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Problem:asking someone(stranger,LS,friend,FC) for help finding a location, gathering spot etc.
Solution:Allow the option to put your own markers on the map and create a physical version of it to give to other players or just put in a direct transfer:D
#68 Jun 26 2013 at 12:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Problem: Reliance on the Random Number Generator for drops.
Solution: Activities like FATEs, dungeons, raids, and select (soloable) quests should yield currency toward gear and crafting materials specific to their level range with an option convert them higher or lower at varied ratios. Ultimately, this is to prevent situations where someone might go 0/20+ on a single item. You can still have the item drop via RNG, but people should always have an alternative path to something. As an added option, if undesired items do drop, the player/party can decide to "destroy" it and instead be rewarded with extra points.



As for making participation in a guild/linkshell/whatever mean more, I've seen a few games try to implement points for activities you otherwise do and can spend toward the guild. Sometimes it's for (temporary) buffs, occasionally it'll unlock features like a guild vault, and something I like is offering alternative sources for things like rare craft materials. There's a browser game out there called Wartune (A bit too P2W for most tastes, I'd wager), but its guild system basically ran on contribution generated by players. You had the quest/event stuff, but periodically you'd get invaders that attack your "home base" so to speak to give players a means to generate more contribution. If you have an excess of gold, you could also pay it toward the guild. In turn, the guild could buy more buildings, upgrade them and their functions, and unlock buffs. Everyone's contribution is viewable within the roster, so you can see who's been doing things for the guild and not as long as their total count keeps climbing. A feature to promote a little extra contribution involves a prize wheel. Most of the time you probably get junk, but occasionally you'll get rare/good things.

While I wouldn't say to do it the exact same way, it's a good means to allow people who can't consistently raid to still be useful to a group in their own ways, particularly if paired with the concepts Kashius mentioned earlier. One problem with Wartune, however, is I've noticed people get spread thin over guilds hoping theirs will be "the best" and, in turn, you get a bunch of weak guilds instead of a couple strong ones. Those who play more will want to leave these weaker guilds for the better ones with better buffs, while everyone else keeps trying to poach members from others to improve their ranks. Should it come to a point where a guild folds, there is means for another to "absorb" its resources and basically prevent the effort of others from becoming a waste. As such, if there is some element of contribution system implemented, a means to adopt these lesser guilds into a bigger one should be present. Perhaps it shouldn't be a 1:1 resource gain to prevent people from starting multiple guilds to potentially power up x times faster than intended, but you could also put some kind of time limit to these acquisitions, perhaps longer based on the strength of the lesser guild being taken in.
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#69 Jun 26 2013 at 1:50 AM Rating: Default
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Seriha wrote:
Activities like FATEs, dungeons, raids, and select (soloable) quests should yield currency toward gear and crafting materials specific to their level range with an option convert them higher or lower at varied ratios.

I dont know why but this just really grinds my gears. I hate it when MMOS use multiple currencies instead of keeping it at drops. I know how it does make a more fair system but it doesn't make much sense and ruins the immersion/game a bit. Its because people wont be seeking that powerful item instead they want "FATE coins", they wont be hunting for powerful gear, they're collecting marks for gear from a shop, and to add it all up, all DAT currency D:


Edited, Jun 26th 2013 3:51am by Panduhnan
#70 Jun 26 2013 at 4:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Panduhnan wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Activities like FATEs, dungeons, raids, and select (soloable) quests should yield currency toward gear and crafting materials specific to their level range with an option convert them higher or lower at varied ratios.

I dont know why but this just really grinds my gears. I hate it when MMOS use multiple currencies instead of keeping it at drops. I know how it does make a more fair system but it doesn't make much sense and ruins the immersion/game a bit. Its because people wont be seeking that powerful item instead they want "FATE coins", they wont be hunting for powerful gear, they're collecting marks for gear from a shop, and to add it all up, all DAT currency D:


Edited, Jun 26th 2013 3:51am by Panduhnan


It keeps people playing the content instead of doing it once and never looking at it again though.
#71 Jun 26 2013 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
I would like the following to make a dream MMO.

1.) Voice chat integrated with voice changers for your character sorta like that new game "the Division" where the voice comes from the player via radio. It would be cool if you could have voice chat where "say" allows others to hear you within like 2-3 feet, "shout" 5-10 feet, and "whisper" goes directly to a player. It would make the town seem really alive when you run by and hear "snippets" of voices as you pass through a group of players.



This has been done before actually. Just like anu voice chat feature that can broadcast your voice you end up with people running around blasting the most vulgar music they can find, or **** on repeat, as they run all over town. Theres just too many trolling opprotunities. It gets old pretty quickly.
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#72 Jun 26 2013 at 5:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Adzieboy wrote:
Panduhnan wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Activities like FATEs, dungeons, raids, and select (soloable) quests should yield currency toward gear and crafting materials specific to their level range with an option convert them higher or lower at varied ratios.

I dont know why but this just really grinds my gears. I hate it when MMOS use multiple currencies instead of keeping it at drops. I know how it does make a more fair system but it doesn't make much sense and ruins the immersion/game a bit. Its because people wont be seeking that powerful item instead they want "FATE coins", they wont be hunting for powerful gear, they're collecting marks for gear from a shop, and to add it all up, all DAT currency D:


It keeps people playing the content instead of doing it once and never looking at it again though.

That, the implied fairness, and if we're really going to play the immersion card, then it's absolutely silly Big Nasty Mob of the Dungeon seems reborn every time you set foot into the area. Realistically, these mobs should either be one-time affairs or require some kind of birth/maturity cycle to promote the theme that mob has grown o nasty proportions, and if not allowed to grow, no drop for you~. Though, there's always the classic wondering why a monster is carrying a small armory. At least craft materials make sense if you turn its horn into a spear or something.

Silly tangent in mind, the ultimate point is that sometimes reality and immersion has to yield to player convenience. Sure, one could also hand wave and claim these shops are stocked by other adventurers/NPCs that have no need for such things, but that's almost... too easy? How about a boat ride from one city to the other? Personally, I'd hope Eorzea is bigger than the equivalent of an RL city and suburbs, but we've got boats moving us around huge distances in moments instead of hours. Why? Because sitting on a digital boat with nothing to do will be ******* boring. We can also run/walk forever without tiring, needing food, or going to the bathroom.

That said, I can understand the fear of currency glut, and that's partly why I proposed the conversion mechanic so you don't suddenly find yourself sitting on a bunch of virtual coins now useless to you because you outleveled an area or general gear quality outshines what it offers. Personally, I hate how mobs drop "finished products" in the form of equipment. It's a classic problem that these drops are almost always superior to anything crafters can produce. In turn, it trivalizes crafting and forces people into consumable markets if they're even worth making. I don't expect equipment drops to go away, though, if for any reason, people are too lazy to find a crafter who can make what they want out of an ingredient.

But yeah, fairness. Guy that goes 1/1 on Sword of a Thousand Truths isn't a better player than the one who's gone 0/50+. He's both lucky while the other is incredibly unlucky. Bluntly, if you can kill a challenging mob 5-10 times, you've proven your worth. Enjoy its loot. The concept people need to spend months at a time for a single item needs to die, especially if we're expected to utilize the class system and play more than one.
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#73 Jun 30 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Default
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Panduhnan wrote:

I dont know why but this just really grinds my gears. I hate it when MMOS use multiple currencies instead of keeping it at drops. I know how it does make a more fair system but it doesn't make much sense and ruins the immersion/game a bit. Its because people wont be seeking that powerful item instead they want "FATE coins", they wont be hunting for powerful gear, they're collecting marks for gear from a shop, and to add it all up, all DAT currency D:


Edited, Jun 26th 2013 3:51am by Panduhnan


I could not agree more. I utterly detest the idea of getting some kind of currency to use to purchase that drop that you so desire. That's part of what makes these games addicting, knowing that I went 0-34 on leaping lizzy before I finally got my boots made me want to log in and try again every night. I like the uncertainty that comes with saying "i might get a drop tonight" as opposed to saying "i know i will get a drop tonight because i only need 1 more token". It's part of the game. Final Fantasy has traditionally been a mmo that doesn't hold peoples hands and reward them with a participation consolation prize. It's all or nothing, to the victor go the spoils and everyone else gets nothing more than tears and frustration and that is a huge selling point for the audience FF is catering to. A significant portion of the FF playerbase wants to get away from games like GW2 and WOW where everyone has the best gear because it's not hard to get. I remember when I was leveling my first job in FFXI and hadn't yet experienced endgame content, when I saw somebody with O-hat, kirin's osode, ridill, etc. I looked at those with awe and wonder. You knew these people put in both time and effort while also being aided by a little luck to get these prizes and putting in a currency to make sure everyone has something just to be "fair" belittles the game, the community, and the individual player imho.
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#74 Jun 30 2013 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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A significant portion of the FF playerbase


Be careful about trying to invoke a majority to prop up your suggestions. It's fine to give your own feedback. But don't presume to speak for a group of people when that group of people hasn't asked you to do that.

This isn't specifically directed at you either.. it's general advice for giving feedback to developers. You don't need to be a spokesperson for some nebulous body of the playerbase.. give your own opinions and your own feedback.
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#75 Jul 01 2013 at 4:40 AM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
A significant portion of the FF playerbase


Be careful about trying to invoke a majority to prop up your suggestions. It's fine to give your own feedback. But don't presume to speak for a group of people when that group of people hasn't asked you to do that.

This isn't specifically directed at you either.. it's general advice for giving feedback to developers. You don't need to be a spokesperson for some nebulous body of the playerbase.. give your own opinions and your own feedback.


I could not agree more, which is why I chose to end my comments with imho (in my humble opinion) so as to not mislead anyone and suggest that I am speaking for anyone but myself and giving my own opinion. I also chose to use the intentionally vague quantifier "significant" and avoided any majority assumptions when referring to my personal experience on this issue to make sure to not falsify statistics and suggest that >50% of the population may agree with this. Good tip though ;)
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#76 Jul 01 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
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I'm going to forgo any level of being PC here and say **** off to that masochistic level off BS. Not everyone has oodles of time to spend camping Leaping Lizzy or whatever low drop example you want to cite. Too often what you infer to as a "victory" was just a matter of dumb luck, both in claim and the RNG favoring you. If you genuinely hate token systems, there is absolutely nobody out there forcing you to spend them. Continue on thriving with no-drops, feeding off that gambler's addiction. And if something can only be bought via tokens, you can take it up a level, pick a number between 1-100, and roll. If your number isn't picked, you don't get the drop. Do not make other people suffer because you over-value digital goods.
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#77 Jul 01 2013 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Do not make other people suffer because you over-value digital goods.


It works both ways though, I could say do not make other people suffer by trivializing worthwhile accomplishments and/or gear by making it so easily available to everyone who just showed up to earn tokens and did not truly earn it and thus under-valuing these digital goods. It is a matter of opinion and neither way is really punishing people or making anyone suffer.
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#78 Jul 01 2013 at 5:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Seriha wrote:
Problem: Reliance on the Random Number Generator for drops.
Solution: Activities like FATEs, dungeons, raids, and select (soloable) quests should yield currency toward gear and crafting materials specific to their level range with an option convert them higher or lower at varied ratios. Ultimately, this is to prevent situations where someone might go 0/20+ on a single item. You can still have the item drop via RNG, but people should always have an alternative path to something. As an added option, if undesired items do drop, the player/party can decide to "destroy" it and instead be rewarded with extra points.



As for making participation in a guild/linkshell/whatever mean more, I've seen a few games try to implement points for activities you otherwise do and can spend toward the guild. Sometimes it's for (temporary) buffs, occasionally it'll unlock features like a guild vault, and something I like is offering alternative sources for things like rare craft materials. There's a browser game out there called Wartune (A bit too P2W for most tastes, I'd wager), but its guild system basically ran on contribution generated by players. You had the quest/event stuff, but periodically you'd get invaders that attack your "home base" so to speak to give players a means to generate more contribution. If you have an excess of gold, you could also pay it toward the guild. In turn, the guild could buy more buildings, upgrade them and their functions, and unlock buffs. Everyone's contribution is viewable within the roster, so you can see who's been doing things for the guild and not as long as their total count keeps climbing. A feature to promote a little extra contribution involves a prize wheel. Most of the time you probably get junk, but occasionally you'll get rare/good things.

While I wouldn't say to do it the exact same way, it's a good means to allow people who can't consistently raid to still be useful to a group in their own ways, particularly if paired with the concepts Kashius mentioned earlier. One problem with Wartune, however, is I've noticed people get spread thin over guilds hoping theirs will be "the best" and, in turn, you get a bunch of weak guilds instead of a couple strong ones. Those who play more will want to leave these weaker guilds for the better ones with better buffs, while everyone else keeps trying to poach members from others to improve their ranks. Should it come to a point where a guild folds, there is means for another to "absorb" its resources and basically prevent the effort of others from becoming a waste. As such, if there is some element of contribution system implemented, a means to adopt these lesser guilds into a bigger one should be present. Perhaps it shouldn't be a 1:1 resource gain to prevent people from starting multiple guilds to potentially power up x times faster than intended, but you could also put some kind of time limit to these acquisitions, perhaps longer based on the strength of the lesser guild being taken in.

I believe Yoshi was trying to do something in the steps of your solution in 1.0. I don't know if he gave up on it or not though. I know need/greed was announced. But I don't know if some of those previous systems carried over into ARR or not.
#79 Jul 01 2013 at 11:46 PM Rating: Good
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Elamille wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Do not make other people suffer because you over-value digital goods.


It works both ways though, I could say do not make other people suffer by trivializing worthwhile accomplishments and/or gear by making it so easily available to everyone who just showed up to earn tokens and did not truly earn it and thus under-valuing these digital goods. It is a matter of opinion and neither way is really punishing people or making anyone suffer.

Nothing will ever be as difficult as getting the Pink Tail in FFIV, which I spent countless hours and never got, but I did encounter the Pink Puff a couple times. If the good items were easy to get people wouldn't remain interested for as long. It just makes business sense to make you work for them, whether that's good or bad. Everybody likes having the best stuff, but if everybody had the best stuff nobody would highly regard the item. I really hope the dupers don't find a loophole in this game and ruin that aspect of it like with PSO and surely others.
#80 Jul 02 2013 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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ErikHighwind wrote:
Elamille wrote:
Seriha wrote:
Do not make other people suffer because you over-value digital goods.


It works both ways though, I could say do not make other people suffer by trivializing worthwhile accomplishments and/or gear by making it so easily available to everyone who just showed up to earn tokens and did not truly earn it and thus under-valuing these digital goods. It is a matter of opinion and neither way is really punishing people or making anyone suffer.

Nothing will ever be as difficult as getting the Pink Tail in FFIV, which I spent countless hours and never got, but I did encounter the Pink Puff a couple times. If the good items were easy to get people wouldn't remain interested for as long. It just makes business sense to make you work for them, whether that's good or bad. Everybody likes having the best stuff, but if everybody had the best stuff nobody would highly regard the item. I really hope the dupers don't find a loophole in this game and ruin that aspect of it like with PSO and surely others.

There comes a point where rational people simply won't bother if they realize the "challenge" is out of their reach. Someone can try to color it as opinion, but I'd call people not partaking in content more damning than people consuming content too quickly. Rationally, if you've proven you can defeat a foe X number of times, there's no challenge in hoping you roll a 1 out of 100.
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#81 Jul 02 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's also the fact that just because something is time-consuming doesn't mean it's challenging.

Challenge is a measure of skill. There's precisely zero skill involved in bashing my face against the wall 800 times in the hopes that I'll get something out of it eventually.

Honestly, WoW has a pretty good mix going right now of RNG and currency-based systems. It's not perfect, but it's not bad. You kill bosses for drops and points. The drops are much better than what can be bought with points, but the points-bought items are still worth pursuing because they're probably better than what you're wearing. The points also provide a buffer against streaks of bad luck. Eventually, even if your thing doesn't drop, you will get SOMETHING out of what you're doing.

NM camping in FFXI was a slot machine. Yeah there was the tiny chance you'll win big, and there's the significantly larger chance that you're wasting your time.
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#82 Jul 03 2013 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
There's also the fact that just because something is time-consuming doesn't mean it's challenging.

Challenge is a measure of skill. There's precisely zero skill involved in bashing my face against the wall 800 times in the hopes that I'll get something out of it eventually.



True, but rng based drops do not have to necessarily be all about skill. The skill required would vary depending on if you are camping a level 10 NM for a lower level item such as leaping boots in FFXI or duoing chary for example, but beyond skill obtaining these drops can be a measure of dedication. A pessimist may see someone with a rng drop and say well that guy got lucky, but an optimist might decide to say man that guy really put in some work to get that item. In my opinion there was a good mix of guarantee and chance in 1.0. If you successfully completed a class quest you were rewarded with a helmet or gloves or whatever that particular quest offered. You could then supplement these guaranteed drops with rng items that were farmed/camped. Its not like theres no way to gear yourself up if u don't get lucky, a player can easily make themselves useful by just utilizing the items the game gives through questing and trading with other players.
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#83 Jul 03 2013 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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I'd rather wipe 20 times to a difficult Charybdis I could pop at will before getting a Joyeuse than camping him for a week+ with competition and maybe not even getting claim. Saying stuff like, "Well, this one manta is the placeholder, so keep track of it's respawns X hours after Charybdis' last death..." for dozens of hours is skill, but it's just tedious monotony. I duoed him. I've fought him in bigger groups for people. This doesn't even tap into the third party tools people looked into to gain an even bigger edge, such as flee/position hacking, pop monitoring, seeing mob corpses, and so on. I get that there's a "rush" in beating someone else to the punch, but you're essentially advocating exclusionary content where bottlenecking potentially thousands of people on a single server will just lead to drama and the temptation to cheat. There's a reason Empyrean NMs had their respawns shortened and KIs added to gold chests. You're asking for the wrong kind of competition.

If you're looking for bragging rights to say you soloed some uber mob, than ask for an arena with time trials and progress tracking. I wouldn't even be against rewards for people completing things under certain conditions. ****, you could even add handicaps on like no Cures or Limit Breaks. Newbies will still look up to the endgame player decked out in good gear, but let's not pretend the majority have an excess of disposable time for timed spawn NMs. Make the mobs hard to kill, not hard to even see.
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#84 Jul 03 2013 at 7:32 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
If you're looking for bragging rights to say you soloed some uber mob, than ask for an arena with time trials and progress tracking. I wouldn't even be against rewards for people completing things under certain conditions. ****, you could even add handicaps on like no Cures or Limit Breaks.


This sounds really cool. You could also have ones for groups as well.

It reminds me a little of BCNMs but in a more streamlined manner where the time taken actually matters. There could be different ranks you can attain based on time taken and drop percentage goes up based on your rank. In fact you could and probably should take it a step further. Time wouldn't be the only factor in your rank. I'm not sure of various parameters you could use but surely more than just time.
#85 Jul 04 2013 at 12:32 AM Rating: Good
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Quick head pondering, but everything would basically be run off a point table.

Time would start at a set value, say a 30 minute time limit. For every second that passes, you lose X points out of Y Time total to contribute to your score.
Depending on the intent of the mob, say it's normally balanced for 3 players, fighting it with 3 would yield no bonus or penalty to the participant points. Fighting with more would subtract, less would add.
Handicaps would then add bonus points depending on the severity of the handicap. Though, you might want to limit the amount of handicaps you could impose so people wouldn't stack things that wouldn't affect their party anyway.
If the mob has special mechanics like "don't stand in the red" then if nobody does, you get a bonus here, too. Or something like not killing adds could yield points.
You could also add random events like coffers spawning or something the target could flee to to recover in order to add another layer of variety.


Either way, the leader board for the specific fights would rank on points with players able to click on and see further info like who participated and the handicaps. Something like this could reset weekly, maybe monthly, with your ranking giving rewards at the end. If the individual fights gave direct rewards, though, I'd expect some kind of entrance fee or cooldown period.
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#86 Jul 09 2013 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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NazgulLeviathan wrote:
Quote:
If you're looking for bragging rights to say you soloed some uber mob, than ask for an arena with time trials and progress tracking. I wouldn't even be against rewards for people completing things under certain conditions. ****, you could even add handicaps on like no Cures or Limit Breaks.


This sounds really cool. You could also have ones for groups as well.

It reminds me a little of BCNMs but in a more streamlined manner where the time taken actually matters. There could be different ranks you can attain based on time taken and drop percentage goes up based on your rank. In fact you could and probably should take it a step further. Time wouldn't be the only factor in your rank. I'm not sure of various parameters you could use but surely more than just time.


Boss Rush mode!
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#87 Jul 11 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Problem: The outfits are for the most part not attractive for the best stats... (ie: Subligars and Harnesses or Robes)

Solution: Do what DCUO did and make it so that once you collect a certain style, you add that style to your collection and you can mix and match your custom outfit based on the styles you own for each slot. This would make the game much more customizable and enjoyable for women (especially my fiance, who plays with me.)
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#88 Jul 11 2013 at 6:30 PM Rating: Good
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Hairspray wrote:
Problem: The outfits are for the most part not attractive for the best stats... (ie: Subligars and Harnesses or Robes)

Solution: Do what DCUO did and make it so that once you collect a certain style, you add that style to your collection and you can mix and match your custom outfit based on the styles you own for each slot. This would make the game much more customizable and enjoyable for women (especially my fiance, who plays with me.)


Not just women. I like this idea a lot.

Though the existing system does lend some credibility to the NPC who gives you the armor dye quest when he mentions how hideous you look.
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#89 Jul 11 2013 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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  • I guess this would be the best place to post.

    I finally got to play with my chocobo today as a companion :) and I loved it but was kind of disappointed a bit.
    I was thinking I could level it up myself but it syncs to whatever level your class is. I was hoping I can breed and raise chocobos as a specific job and sell it. I thought that would have been really fun.

    I guess I can see that you don't want to have a chocobo power leveling you or reducing your exp. What do you gits think?

    Also I was really bummed that chocobos don't share your emotes lol if I danced or cheered I was hoping it would kweh or bounce around with me.

    I was thinking of levels too. I wish jobs and classes didn't share levels. Say you solo your lancer to 50 then unlock dragoon it will be level 50. Then the player doesn't know the job. I say this because we are speculating that more jobs will branch off our current jobs. Say that lancer is already 50 and drk branches off lnc its probably going top be level 50.

    What do you guys think?
    #90 Jul 12 2013 at 5:04 AM Rating: Good
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    Emote thing is certainly fluff. Could come later, but I think many would prefer primary systems get priority.

    Actual chocobo leveling with various classes I can see getting mixed reviews. More hardcore folks might enjoy it, both as something to do and a potential income stream, but as the concept of a more casual duo buddy, not having to worry about them falling behind or gimping your EXP on an alt-job is a good thing. As maybe a hybrid of the ideas, the various craft professions should be capable of making chocobo gear to both allow a custom look and maybe some niche perks that favor your play style.

    As for jobs sharing levels, again, you don't want to make the game too grind-centric. It could work if you had dozens of leveling paths to offer people variety in locations and questing, but right now it's (presumably) 3 early on with them all eventually converging mid-game and later. Multiply that grind by the number of jobs/classes and realize that not everyone is legacy and people actually unlock them around 30 and the whole "They won't know their job!" fear should technically be minimal. Yes, you'll still have people who suck no matter what, and making them grind even more EXP won't change that.
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    #91 Jul 12 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
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    Seriha wrote:
    Emote thing is certainly fluff. Could come later, but I think many would prefer primary systems get priority.

    Actual chocobo leveling with various classes I can see getting mixed reviews. More hardcore folks might enjoy it, both as something to do and a potential income stream, but as the concept of a more casual duo buddy, not having to worry about them falling behind or gimping your EXP on an alt-job is a good thing. As maybe a hybrid of the ideas, the various craft professions should be capable of making chocobo gear to both allow a custom look and maybe some niche perks that favor your play style.

    As for jobs sharing levels, again, you don't want to make the game too grind-centric. It could work if you had dozens of leveling paths to offer people variety in locations and questing, but right now it's (presumably) 3 early on with them all eventually converging mid-game and later. Multiply that grind by the number of jobs/classes and realize that not everyone is legacy and people actually unlock them around 30 and the whole "They won't know their job!" fear should technically be minimal. Yes, you'll still have people who suck no matter what, and making them grind even more EXP won't change that.


    Idc when they put in emotes, but i was saying that a game with so many variety of emotes should have a few emotes with your chocobo lol.

    I agree about it might be more geared for hardcore players, but i think being able to raise a chocobo would be a lot of fun. If the casual players dont want to level their chocobo, it would be nice for them to purchase one off a player. I guess if you buy a lvl 50 chocobo it wouldnt be so bad since this game is quick to level and pretty against grinding? This could tie in to my next part where would it be an issue with lvl 50 class branching to jobs. If you lvl each class all your jobs would be max level so lvl gap between your chocobo and yourself wouldnt be too big of an issue.

    imho i think leveling from lvl 30 to 50 isnt grindy at all. I got from lvl 1 to 50 on my first job in about two weeks. I haven seen people do that in a week in 1.0 (but that could of been from power leveling? anyways i didnt power level my first class/job) Yoshi did design this game to be able to teach their players how to play as you go, so wouldnt it fit the design to ease them into a new job, but not have them start all the way back to lvl 1? I guess it doesnt feel right to get a new job and start at max level to me.
    #92 Jul 12 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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    First jobs aren't my worry, as they'll have a healthy amount of quests to support. However, when I think, "Buy a level 50 chocobo from someone else!" I think the seller will attempt to translate that into some timing metric if there's no feasible way to powerlevel them. Essentially, if it turns out someone needs a month to level such a bird, they're probably going to demand 2 months of basic farming time from people, effectively putting it out of range for those who might need/want the helper. With gear, repairs, and other consumables like potions and ethers already being an active expense, I'd be wary about how much you "tax" people for simply leveling.

    Anyway, I'm not against a breeding/raising system, as XI did one to some mixed success, but it's also probably best to keep the end result bound to the player with breeding being the only means to yield a tradeable egg/offspring. SE would just need to avoid situations like, "You don't have a gold chocobo? GTFO my party, noob!"
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    #93 Jul 17 2013 at 10:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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    Hairspray wrote:
    Problem: The outfits are for the most part not attractive for the best stats... (ie: Subligars and Harnesses or Robes)

    Solution: Do what DCUO did and make it so that once you collect a certain style, you add that style to your collection and you can mix and match your custom outfit based on the styles you own for each slot. This would make the game much more customizable and enjoyable for women (especially my fiance, who plays with me.)


    Good call Hairspray. I really thought the system of unlocking styles for permanent use was a great idea. It had the added effect of making players go for items that they didn't need the stats at all, but they looked cool.

    If I recall correctly, Yoshida has stated that he wants the armor/clothes a character is wearing to reflect their currently equipped class. Is there a compromise here? Just make some of the heavy armor styles not available while you are a caster, and some of the mage gear styles not available while being a melee class. Some armor styles would go into a style category that would be available for any class/role.

    Anyway, I support the overall idea of setting your appearance to be based on equipment that is separate from the equipped items you are getting stats from. Example, I want to look like I am wearing an awesome pointy mage hat, but still get the stats from some stupid looking turban. I sure don't want to wear some stupid turban just because it is the best thing available right now. But of course, I will wear the stupid turban, because I'm not willing to just nerf myself for aesthetics.
    #94 Jul 30 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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    Problem: Not knowing how you did compared to the other players so you can ultimately improve and make sure you're adding the most value possible to the dungeons. And not knowing who you may want to add to your friend's list if they really did well.

    Solution: Scorecard at the end of the dungeon to provide parsed information for DPS, Healing, and other relevant statistics.
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    #95 Aug 01 2013 at 10:27 AM Rating: Good
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    Problem: Not being able to play with your friend(s) because they are on another server.

    Answer: Megaserver! DCUO merged all of their servers about 2 years ago to create "Megaservers" - they still have the same number of actual servers (computers) running... with multiple "phases" so players are not all crammed into one server, it automatically overflows into more servers as needed and opens up additional "phases". You will not see players if they are in a different phase... but you can change phases to be in the same phase as your friends anytime you want.

    This also opens up the ability to have PVP/PVE phases so you can be attacked anytime by an enemy in a PVP phase, but not in a PVE one.

    Edited, Aug 1st 2013 12:29pm by Hairspray
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    #96 Aug 01 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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    electromagnet83 wrote:
    I would like the following to make a dream MMO.

    1.) Voice chat integrated with voice changers for your character sorta like that new game "the Division" where the voice comes from the player via radio. It would be cool if you could have voice chat where "say" allows others to hear you within like 2-3 feet, "shout" 5-10 feet, and "whisper" goes directly to a player. It would make the town seem really alive when you run by and hear "snippets" of voices as you pass through a group of players.



    This was done very well in the original Phantasy Star Online Lobbies on the original XBOX.
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    #97 Aug 02 2013 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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    It would be nice if Lalafell males could have full beards. I'm trying to create Starswirl TheBearded, not Starswirl TheMustacheoed.
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    #98 Aug 11 2013 at 11:11 AM Rating: Good
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    Kachi wrote:
    The potential of this thread overwhelms me.

    If more game designers would create forum threads like this, just imagine how much better their games would be.

    Also, if you name a problem, I'll offer a solution.



    I couldn't agree more, lol! Liking this thread, will favorite it! :)
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