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Let's invent the flying car; Not re-create the wheelFollow

#1 Apr 23 2013 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
I will preface this post with the fact that the only MMO's I have played are:

FFXI - 6 years
DCUO - 1 year
WoW - 3 days.
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What has me bothered is that there are all these terms that fly around MMO forums such as P2P, F2P, Casual, Hardcore, Freemium, P2W, and WoW clone... We all know what these mean because they have all been done before and we've played these sort of games at some point. There are things we like and things we don't like about each setup. One thing we, as dedicated gamers, complain about a lot (especially here on ZAM) is a lack of innovation and ingenuity in games recently. Games are terrible (XIV), poorly paced (GW2), have misused resources (SWtoR), or are simply another "WoW clone." We want something new, fresh, and functional. We don't want the grinding of XI, the punishment of EVE, or another WoW with a new skin and different race names. However, creating a successful game has become difficult, I think, due to a rift between those who classify themselves as casual gamers and those who identify as hardcore.

What I would like to know is what you guys want in your game. Not this game (we have the "simple solutions for simple problems" sticky for that). I want to know what the gaming population here on ZAM really wants. What components would make a game that you would drop all other MMO's for and pay $15 a month for without remorse? What UI implementations, setting, mechanincs, social tools, and lore would you want? Do you want PvE, PvP, or both? Solo-oriented, or party-based? If both, what balance would you like to see? How would you like leveling to be facilitated? Anything you want to come up with, I'm sure we have more than enough people to discuss your ideas here.
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#2 Apr 23 2013 at 11:08 PM Rating: Decent
I'd like to see:

- A more involved battle mechanic. I'm fine with auto-attack, but I miss utilizing combos like I did in DCUO.
- I like the Ivalice FF setting. It's pretty dynamic. Really fleshing it out is important.
- An effective game-based voice chat would be nice. I get annoyed using a seperate program for vent or w/e my ls uses.
- I wouldn't mind having PvE+PvP if the battle mechanincs facilitated individual attacks. In auto-attack mode, I'd rather have strictly PvE.
- I would be ok with a leveling system where party-based is optimal and solo-based earns 2/3 the xp. I feel that's enough to make you not feel that you've wasted your time soloing and makes partying the preferred choice, but not the only one.
- I think having an even mix of camp xp and quest xp is important. If a group wants to level, they have camps they can go to. If I want to solo, I can do quests.
- Cross - server grouping for instanced combat. I don't plan to use it, becuase I don't like the group dynamics (there is always that guy who refuses to listen, or chews with his mic on), but I think it is important for more leisurely players.
- Death penalty: There needs to be one.
- I honestly think instant travel is here to stay. It's too **** convenient. I mean, do you really want to spend 5+ minutes on a choco from Bastok to Jeuno, then wait 3 minutes for the airship, then wait 5 minutes for the airship ride to Yuhtunga Jungle? And my god, missing that airship as it pulls out of the harbor is infuriating!
- I want the XI and XIV concept of playing every job on one character.
- Incentives (such as a small increase in xp) for partying with people on your Friends List.

That's all I have at the moment.

Edited, Apr 24th 2013 1:14am by IKickYoDog
____________________________
Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#3 Apr 24 2013 at 12:29 AM Rating: Good
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This feels an awful lot like recreating the wheel rather than a flying car.
Voice chat integrated into servers would cause massive congestion and its more like making a car with 5 wheels instead of four. Adding people to your friend list for xp bonus? I can't see that being exploited (sarcasm).


But I'll bite with two ideas that are outside the box (aka flying car)mobile app for gardening, bazaar management or crafting / gathering, linkshell chat/management (invite members to shell, promote, set lsmes) in game messages, check weather.
Charge 99cents a month for it.

Geo tagging IRL to gain access to items (vanity only, example tag yourself at SE HQ and get a special chocobo- Check in at North Pole for a Santa outfit, Distant Worlds concert get new BGM)



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#4 Apr 24 2013 at 1:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's the year 2000. Where are the flying cars? I was promised flying cars!

#5 Apr 24 2013 at 5:35 AM Rating: Decent
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A flying car would be Ray Bradybury's vision of interactive soap operas from Fahrenheit 451. The player character is surrounded on one to four walls by television screens (giant *** whole wall size TVs) to provide an immersive experience. He or she interacts with the NPC characters on the screen in real time according to a script. Head phones provide sound but tune out reality. Hey, sounds a lot like a video game cutscene...

Eye-finity is approaching this, but we're not a wall sized immerse 2D televisions quite yet.
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#6 Apr 24 2013 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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deronguerra wrote:
This feels an awful lot like recreating the wheel rather than a flying car.
Voice chat integrated into servers would cause massive congestion and its more like making a car with 5 wheels instead of four.


Not true at all. DnD used to, and Lotro still does have integrated voice chat in their game, and my god was it convenient. It also worked quite well, although it wasn't as sophisticated as external stuff like TS and Vent, I was completely ok with that. Personally, if I'm not grouping with someone, I don't really want to chat all that much. I don't like talking on the mic, and I think there's a lot of people who feel the same. If I'm in a group doing a raid or pvp I have no problem with it, but just general social chat I tend to do in-game through tells rather than announcing it to the entire guild. Just a personal preference though. So yeah, I'd be all for integrated voice chat.
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#7 Apr 24 2013 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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I want to be able to log in and get something awesome done in a reasonable timeframe.

I haven't seen a game pull this off perfectly yet. They'll mask it in forms of repeatable quests towards a large goal, but it's still a grind.

Instead of doing repeatable grinds for one goal, have smaller objectives to a variety of separate goals.
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#8 Apr 24 2013 at 6:53 AM Rating: Good
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XI got pretty close to that with the Empyrean armor sets. Base gear is easy to get (buy with points from various activities.) +1 gear is a bit more involved - collect 8 to 10 seals that match it, which drop from NMs. +2 gear is tough, with 6 to 9 gems from NMs.

The base gear was pretty but not too good. The +1 gear alone was comparable to the top tier gear at level 75. And the +2 gear blew it out of the water.

Some jobs could solo +1 gear - but it was way faster to form a small group. With 3 other players, you could probably finish a piece in a single 1-2 hour farming session.

Then the entire +2 set gave set bonuses, started at 3 or more pieces.

The entire system allowed you to work toward the longer goal, but also be satisfied as you completed the smaller objectives within that bigger goal.
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FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#9 Apr 24 2013 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
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I know this game will not change drastically again and I do like a lot of what I see. But I will play your game.

- A more involved battle mechanic. I want a skill modifier system for adjusting potency, range, and other parameters on the fly.
- I like the setting now but I wish to get darker and lighter in some themes. An industrial or technological city in the spirit of VI or VII(Not copies).
- A magitek battle racing circuit PvP or magitek battles PvE
- A Final Fantasy Tactics within this game using in game assets(Something to when not doing the main game)
- Most dungeons to have an element that makes each unique such as heavy magnetism, magic blocked, etc.
- A return of companions but with personalities and their own questlines, think Auron, Cloud, etc.
- I want a claim/xp system that negates botting or leeching xp.(Seriously, if this is permitted just have a buy high level character feature.)
- A Festival of the hunt
- A craft PvP
- An option to level just like you do in offline games but with other players.(Killing and questing on the way to the big baddies in dungeons)
- No death penalty unless it is fast to gain back solo or in group at same pace and time required.
- Keep fast travel but add long travel options with content and exploration being the reward. No cost difference only preference to which we choose.
- I want classes to be a bit more open and jobs to be bit more strict on roles.
- Leveling a character max speed should be a month and a casual no longer than 3 months per character, how SE achieve this I know not.
- A dynamic hotbar who's function change in context with a quests or minigame. (Airship maintenance, flight controls, engine pressure, etc.)

This is all I have for the moment.
#10 Apr 24 2013 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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i've only ever played ffxi from 05-09 but....
a mashup between ffxi and ffxiv would be my ideal.

-nms from ffxi
-building tp like ffxi
-being able to solo, but getting better exp from parties
-camp exp and quest exp availability
-fast travel
-pretty much everything good from both games

however, i don't think anything will ever live up to ffxi imo because it's so nostalgic to me.
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#11 Apr 24 2013 at 7:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I've always been intrigued by the Wild ARMs franchise. In addition to a general job (let's say mage, tank, damage dealer), you design your ARM. You can pick from single or dual wield, pistols or rifles, single shot or automatic. Wouldn't be particularly difficult to balance. Something like it starts at doing 10 damage, single shot is that full 10, single shot dual wield is 5/5, automatic is 10x1, so on and so forth. Some variables to the choices, like dual wield is less accurate, rifles better range, etc etc. These weapons use ammo, and all MMOs require money sinks to stabilize economies in some way or another. Depending on the base job you can have swords and staves and such. Throw in the guardians and golems and I'd be a happy camper.

Edited, Apr 24th 2013 10:16am by lolgaxe
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#12 Apr 24 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
deronguerra wrote:
This feels an awful lot like recreating the wheel rather than a flying car.
Voice chat integrated into servers would cause massive congestion and its more like making a car with 5 wheels instead of four. Adding people to your friend list for xp bonus? I can't see that being exploited (sarcasm).


But I'll bite with two ideas that are outside the box (aka flying car)mobile app for gardening, bazaar management or crafting / gathering, linkshell chat/management (invite members to shell, promote, set lsmes) in game messages, check weather.
Charge 99cents a month for it.

Geo tagging IRL to gain access to items (vanity only, example tag yourself at SE HQ and get a special chocobo- Check in at North Pole for a Santa outfit, Distant Worlds concert get new BGM)





I understand what you mean. Problem for me is that I know what type of discussion I'd like to see, but I personally have very little imagination. That's why I brought it to you good people. For example, I never would have thought of a mobile app for gardening. I would probably never use it, but I can see how it would be awesome and really like the idea. Smiley: smile
____________________________
Our team is like a flock of woodpeckers in a petrified forest. We just need to keep working and keep an eye open for opportunity.

FFXI
Toofar - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - WHM BLM SMN
Rafoot - Asura (Formerly of Lakshmi (Garuda)) - THF SAM BRD
#13 Apr 24 2013 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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You know what I'd really like to see? An mmo with a combat system similar to the Star Ocean series. Where you can set different abilities to trigger buttons, and combat is more like an action oriented strategy. You combo attacks together, can chainstun with certain abilities, can do jump attacks, use items fluidly in battle, etc. If timed right you could basically juggle opponents to death with the right combo of moves, which was really fun. The game could still be challenging because all of the postgame content in the Star Ocean games was VERY tough without the best gear and overleveling, and even then was still a challenge.

And I don't want it to be like GW2, where they tried to turn that style of combat into WoW with hotbars. I always thought the combat UI for GW2 was so cumbersome... I guess the game I'm thinking is more console based or at least works better with a controller.

I've always thought this would translate well to an mmo because it would be great for both PVE and PvP. Also, the battle system can still be complex because there is still the trilogy in those games... tanks, melee, and mages/ranged. From what I can tell, Blade and Soul seems like it will have a somewhat similar combat system, but I haven't seen gameplay footage of that in a while so it might have changed.

#14 Apr 24 2013 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
You know what I'd really like to see? An mmo with a combat system similar to the Star Ocean series. Where you can set different abilities to trigger buttons, and combat is more like an action oriented strategy. You combo attacks together, can chainstun with certain abilities, can do jump attacks, use items fluidly in battle, etc. If timed right you could basically juggle opponents to death with the right combo of moves, which was really fun. The game could still be challenging because all of the postgame content in the Star Ocean games was VERY tough without the best gear and overleveling, and even then was still a challenge.

And I don't want it to be like GW2, where they tried to turn that style of combat into WoW with hotbars. I always thought the combat UI for GW2 was so cumbersome... I guess the game I'm thinking is more console based or at least works better with a controller.

I've always thought this would translate well to an mmo because it would be great for both PVE and PvP. Also, the battle system can still be complex because there is still the trilogy in those games... tanks, melee, and mages/ranged. From what I can tell, Blade and Soul seems like it will have a somewhat similar combat system, but I haven't seen gameplay footage of that in a while so it might have changed.


Final Fantasy XIII-3
Gameplay

Lightning sliding down a pole.
Players will take control of Final Fantasy XIII's main character, Lightning, as the sole playable character. She will traverse freely over the game's variety of terrain and can jump on obstacles, such as telephone poles, and use elements of stealth. Her abilities differ based on her elevated height. The player can either walk between destinations or use the monorail for faster travel. Chocobos will be available to use at some point in the game.
Monsters will range in size and can be enormous.

Enemies are found on the field and Lightning can sneak up on them to perform preemptive strikes, and if Lightning can strike first, the enemy will lose 10% of their starting HP; if Lightning can strike an enemy from behind, they'll lose 25%.
The battle system will be a heavily modified version of the Command Synergy Battle system the two previous games used and will feature real time features, such as freely taking control of Lightning's movements and attacks, and a real time block, dodge and counter system. The new combat system does not yet have an official name, but is tentatively referred to as "Amazing ATB" because it is derived from the classic Active Time Battle system.

Combat

Combat in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, showing Lightning attacking enemies.
Players can assign four commands to the controller's face buttons and instead of selecting commands, players will press buttons that correspond to the individual abilities. However, there will also be timing-based mechanics. Though the battle system is of an action-RPG, it will feature an ATB gauge and every action depletes this bar. Players will have access to several different custom-made Paradigm-like "Styles" that change Lightning's assigned skills on-the-fly. Each Style has its own ATB gauge, meaning the player can swap between Styles and maintain constant action while allowing the other Style to recharge. If the player run out of ATB and they cannot perform any actions, but the gauges will gradually refill as Lightning idles. By tilting the left analog stick the player can move Lightning on the battlefield.
Lightning will be fully customizable with wide array of costumes, weapons, and different battle styles. Styles allow players to put together a weapon, a shield, accessories and abilities to create different skills and attributes for battle. These abilities do not include just commands during combat, but also actions taken on the field. Players can preset different Styles and change between them, similar to how Paradigm Shift worked in earlier games. Abe states there is a lot of freedom in terms of customization, so the player can create a well-balanced character or an all-powerful one.

Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII is said to feature tougher enemy types and boss battles with the key being destroying various body parts on the monsters. Enemies will have multiple weaknesses so the player can knock them down in multiple ways making for less repetitive gameplay.

The knockdown system replaces the stagger system seen in Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIII-2. The icons under an enemy's HP gauge are attributes that govern its strengths and weaknesses. Lightning can assemble a Style that exploits the weak points. Via the Knockdown system Lightning can juggle an enemy in the air continuously with her attacks.

Status ailments inflicted on Lightning will not be removed after the battle is finished, but the player can go to restaurants to restore her lost HP and heal from afflicted status ailments.

Lightning will have a variety of movements and will be able to climb, jump, crouch, take cover behind walls and objects, climb over and hang off ledges, and a variety of other moves both in and out of battle.[
#15 Apr 24 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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Thanks for posting that. I actually hadn't even looked into FFXIII-3 at all because I disliked the first game so much, but this sounds extremely appealing. I'm not really surprised since Star Ocean is an SE franchise also, but it's still cool nonetheless. Wish it was implemented into an mmo though.
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#16 Apr 24 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
I've always been intrigued by the Wild ARMs franchise. In addition to a general job (let's say mage, tank, damage dealer), you design your ARM. You can pick from single or dual wield, pistols or rifles, single shot or automatic. Wouldn't be particularly difficult to balance. Something like it starts at doing 10 damage, single shot is that full 10, single shot dual wield is 5/5, automatic is 10x1, so on and so forth. Some variables to the choices, like dual wield is less accurate, rifles better range, etc etc. These weapons use ammo, and all MMOs require money sinks to stabilize economies in some way or another. Depending on the base job you can have swords and staves and such. Throw in the guardians and golems and I'd be a happy camper.

Edited, Apr 24th 2013 10:16am by lolgaxe


Wild Arms as in Wild Arms the RPG ? Rudy, Jack and whatever the blonde name was ?
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#17 Apr 24 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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No, Wild Arms the breakfast cereal.
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#18 Apr 24 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Default
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Are those the ones with the guardians figures in different colors ?
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#19 Apr 24 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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A few things I would look for:

Combat with RTS elements and controller optimization for inputting commands.

Multiple game platforms within the game. e.g., a trading card game, shooter elements, etc.

Tremendous character customization (gameplay, not appearance) options that are reasonably well-balanced.

Social tools and game structures which promote party-based play with friends (rather than pickup groups).

Achievement-oriented rewards--more skills and equipment based on overcoming challenges, not just an artifact of high playtime/grinding.

Travel is prevent, but it's "gamified"--not just a chore to get from A to B, but treated as the integral part of the game experience that it is.

These are all attainable within the current generation, though.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#20 Apr 24 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Thanks for posting that. I actually hadn't even looked into FFXIII-3 at all because I disliked the first game so much, but this sounds extremely appealing. I'm not really surprised since Star Ocean is an SE franchise also, but it's still cool nonetheless. Wish it was implemented into an mmo though.


FFXIII-2 was leaps and bounds better than FFXIII. It was way more open-world style and actually had a fair amount of sidequests and what not. I'll play FFXIII-3 because I've already played the first 2, but I do hope this spinoff series ends there...I want my FFXV on the PS4 Smiley: nod



And Flying cars will NEVER happen. As many wrecks as we have in normal cars now could you imagine trying to fly around with other dumb flyers. Not to mention a wreck in a flying car is basically 100% chance of death, unlike the little "wrecks" we have now that result in minor injuries most of the time. Yea, not gonna happen.
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#21 Apr 24 2013 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I think flying cars are more a problem of energy management (unless of course the government is hiding alien energy technology!). Insofar as safety is concerned we probably won't be the ones actually piloting the flying cars most of the time. We'd have autopilot for that--and probably stay within 15 feet off the ground for most of travel.

Technically, there are flying cars, though they're basically just convertible biplanes.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#22 Apr 24 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
I think flying cars are more a problem of energy management (unless of course the government is hiding alien energy technology!). Insofar as safety is concerned we probably won't be the ones actually piloting the flying cars most of the time. We'd have autopilot for that--and probably stay within 15 feet off the ground for most of travel.

Technically, there are flying cars, though they're basically just convertible biplanes.


Lol, yea I've seen those "flying cars". An airplane with wings that fold up into a shape reminiscent of what darth vader hopped out of does not constitute a flying car Smiley: tongue
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#23 Apr 24 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
FFXIII-2 was leaps and bounds better than FFXIII. It was way more open-world style and actually had a fair amount of sidequests and what not. I'll play FFXIII-3 because I've already played the first 2, but I do hope this spinoff series ends there...I want my FFXV on the PS4 Smiley: nod


Agreed. It still baffles me that they even MADE a spinoff to one of their least regarded FF's to date, especially when people have been clamoring for them to make far more interesting games... now, where's my freaking Chrono Break! Smiley: mad
#24 Apr 24 2013 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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I would like to see a game that actually gives me the feeling of adventure that books like The Wheel of Time or Lord of the rings gave me when I read them. I would like the leveling experience to be me in a great story together with friends traveling the world getting exp just by following the story which involves traveling, fighting, gathering information, solving puzzles etc to advance.

The world would have to be huge because traveling would take some time, but the thing is that traveling and being forced to camp over night to avoid dangers lurking in the dark and having to decide if you want to camp near the road or deeper in the forest is a part of the experience and your choice gives different results.

The choices people make in the story would have an effect on how the story progresses as they add new "chapters". Maybe this could be achieved by following what the majority of players chose out of all the different options.

The world would be a mix between themepark and sandbox where there might be inns scattered along the road which might be run by real players and there should be development tools that players can use so that they can create their own small adventures/quests for other players to participate in. So on your journey you can decide if you want to help or not etc.

Of course if you want to you can just go into the wild and hunt that legendary beast that is said to exist high in the mountains and it should really actually be freaking legendary. There should be extremely advanced puzzles that would need to be solved etc to find it and if/when it is finally found and killed... the beast is dead and another rumor might just pop up about a different beast.. living in the ocean.

This is of course assuming anyone has even become powerful enough to topple the foe at all. There shouldn't really be a level cap so there will actually be some legendary players.

I dunno, I guess some things might not work and I am sure there are a thousand other things I would put in there, but I think people get the picture anyway lol.
#25 Apr 24 2013 at 1:54 PM Rating: Default
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Here's an interesting Idea for an MMO...



No more levels. How about you quest for everything. Want more HP? There's a quest for it! Want new skills that are better and more powerful? There's a quest/mission for it. I mean, in real life that's how personal development happens right? We learn stuff and/or are rewarded for doing things. No more of this "yay I'm level 25 now". How about instead, "Yay I just got this skill that's super powerful because before that I quested up my HP and MP and gathered other skills to help me achieve this progression!"



...just a thought
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Check out my Gamer Blog at http://www.baffledgamer.com/
#26 Apr 24 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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"The Sims."
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