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Will keeping 1.0's levels do more harm than good?Follow

#1 Apr 29 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Decent
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this is one of the things that has got me wondering of how will it effect the game at re-release.

Considering a ton of people "abused" and i will quote as it was either intentional or UN-intentional; the majority of the people that played after the x chain were added powered leveled and bum rushed every single job in game to cap within hours. Leading to the majority of servers with almost all things maxed effortlessly ( don't want to rehash what was spoken of before to death but it needs to be reminded ). Now considering they keep saying 2.0 is essentially a brand new game having over 50% of the players all capped out in the long run will have people quitting or not staying with the game longer due to them having few things to do.

I'm sure a lot will come out and say:
-they earned x....and y
-if i don't like i can start new character
-etc

but the way i see it going is this:
game released........everyone excited to see whats new.......they try new fate/and any of the new endgame.....only few weeks or month pass and considering capped all and the ease of progressing people will get bored and move on to another mmorpg.

so is this game over-casual gameplay and mechanics+ allowing almost everyone near max capped all going to bring more harm than good? am i alone on this? or imagine this what would happen if you release a mmorpg with everyone in the game at capped lv?




P.S- i really wish ( insert anti ff11 hatters shield ) that they took stuff from their 10+ year running mmorpg for inspiration, this is looking into another WoW rehash with talk to npc......go kill x amount of monsters and collect reward 1-cap and focus all on endgame. I wish it was like in the old days or ff11 where the journey from 1 to max is the adventure and not just have a gap in activities from 1....cap and then they have stuff to do, or have levels mean something.



Edited, Apr 29th 2013 12:08pm by KingAlkaiser
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#2 Apr 29 2013 at 10:17 AM Rating: Excellent
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think they have any other choice. You can't let people play a game for 2 years, charge them for some of it, then delete their stuff later. They did their best to negate the side-effects of new and established players by creating new player - only servers, but the fact remains that until the 1st expansion the Legacy players are going to finish faster. They're introducing Arcanist / SMN at and soon after release, so that will occupy those that wish to use it. Overall I think that if they introduce a decent sized patch or expansion within the 1st 4 months of release, they will be fine.
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#3 Apr 29 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
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We didn't quit before... why would we quit after they added all the shiny new items, dungeons, quests, and jobs?

The reasoning doesn't make sense.

Lastly, no one is capped. We are only 50. There's level 90 enemies.

Seriously I capped all but 2 jobs in 1.0. I kept playing, and not to level the remaining 2.

Edited, Apr 29th 2013 12:19pm by Louiscool
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#4 Apr 29 2013 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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Do you really think it's going to be 50% of the players? I don't. Toward the end XIV boasted all of what, 20k people and that's being generous? The rest had all quit. So we are looking at a very small percentage of players that actually played the old game long enough to qualify of being grandfathered in.

The rest of those 500k+ folks will largely be starting over.
#5 Apr 29 2013 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I had all jobs (DOL/DOH/DOM/DOW) quite a few months before 1.0 ended and I honestly wasnt stuck for things to do with my ls. I played from the start and it did get easier to level up mele/mage jobs but before the PL thing became the norm I had most of my jobs (bar PUG if I remember) levelled either to 50 or pretty close because the class system sort of required it.
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#6 Apr 29 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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The thing is with the spread of information, leveling has become a rather obvious gating system. You're restricted how quickly you can access content by how long the leveling process is designed to take. SE made this plainly obvious with the fatigue system that was subsequently removed. Leveling instead is a measure of growth and accomplishment, which you will have several methods available to you. FFXI wasn't so much of a journey, as it was more of "looking for crabs." You simply found the most efficient area and ground it to oblivion in a near perfect or nothing group, replaced by book burning and Abyssea in later incarnations.

I don't think having max-level players will hurt the game so much as it will make those players bored. If they manage to draw in 500k players, having 20k players bored who will continue to pay & play anyway won't be much of an issue. Like Louiscool said, if they didn't quit before why would they now?
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#7 Apr 29 2013 at 10:42 AM Rating: Default
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Quite honestly they SHOULD have wiped everything clean, but it wouldn't cause harm due to the fact they're blocking 1.0 people from joining new servers with their imports.
#8 Apr 29 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
Do you really think it's going to be 50% of the players? I don't. Toward the end XIV boasted all of what, 20k people and that's being generous? The rest had all quit. So we are looking at a very small percentage of players that actually played the old game long enough to qualify of being grandfathered in.

The rest of those 500k+ folks will largely be starting over.


Who are this 500K more ?
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#9 Apr 29 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Do you really think it's going to be 50% of the players? I don't. Toward the end XIV boasted all of what, 20k people and that's being generous? The rest had all quit. So we are looking at a very small percentage of players that actually played the old game long enough to qualify of being grandfathered in.

The rest of those 500k+ folks will largely be starting over.


Who are this 500K more ?


Well, the original game sold about 600k copies. There are 580k people in the current Beta (with more to be added). So between these two numbers, I'm giving a very optimistic starting number of at least 500k people interested enough to seriously play this game.
#10 Apr 29 2013 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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Ironically, although I'm legacy, I only had one character high up (level 42) and the rest of my jobs are well below max level.

Quite a few folks quit 1.0 before they capped out, or kept it ultra casual like me and didn't really worry about capping all the levels.
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#11 Apr 29 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Totally irrational fears, OP.
1.0 characters will be "quarantined" to their own special legacy servers anyway,
so there's no chance the end-game stagation will infect newer players, too.
'cept if the letter are for some strange reason inclined to join a legacy server.
#12 Apr 29 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Do you really think it's going to be 50% of the players? I don't. Toward the end XIV boasted all of what, 20k people and that's being generous? The rest had all quit. So we are looking at a very small percentage of players that actually played the old game long enough to qualify of being grandfathered in.

The rest of those 500k+ folks will largely be starting over.


Who are this 500K more ?


The 580k+ people who signed up/are in the beta that I'm pretty sure you more than likely jumped into as well given your whole "SE fails but I continue to play their games" mantra.
#13 Apr 29 2013 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Do you really think it's going to be 50% of the players? I don't. Toward the end XIV boasted all of what, 20k people and that's being generous? The rest had all quit. So we are looking at a very small percentage of players that actually played the old game long enough to qualify of being grandfathered in.

The rest of those 500k+ folks will largely be starting over.


Who are this 500K more ?


The 580k+ people who signed up/are in the beta that I'm pretty sure you more than likely jumped into as well given your whole "SE fails but I continue to play their games" mantra.


If this turns into another games sold versus players playing thread I'm going to start nuking posts. Let's keep it on topic. While it's been done to death on the official forums and to a lesser extent here, it's still more worthy than fighting over player numbers.
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#14 Apr 29 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think for *some* that (might) be the case but it would be a very small number. Considering how few actually stayed on to pay and add in the ones that stayed on that were willing to pay are hardcore FF fans.Doubtful many of them will bail after being so loyal from the very very rocky start. If anything I'd be more worried about the other end of the spectrum. The legacy players are not going anywhere. It's drawing in new players and the ones (like me) who pretty much left after the first month. With it's less than stellar reputation and MMO's rarely get a second chance without going free2play. It'll be very interesting to see how this goes.
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#15 Apr 29 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sorry KA, I'm not even in the Beta myself but your OP seems terribly uninformed. I think most if not all your fears have been addressed in some way or another. But the simple fact is, the game needs new players to survive, and without an emphasis on welcoming them, FFXIV is as good as done.

And as for your post script, FFXI was made after their developers spent a year playing EQ, the prevalent MMO of its time, and created an FF-themed MMO based on what they learned. If that was good enough for you, isn't it a bit presumptuous to say they shouldn't make their next FF-themed MMO based on lessons learned from today's (even more) prevalent MMO?
#16 Apr 29 2013 at 12:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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Most of the legacy players I know (granted not many made it to cap) are going to start over on a fresh server. They'll keep their old characters for nostalgia but plan on starting over at level 1.
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#17 Apr 29 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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Valeforelacky wrote:
I think for *some* that (might) be the case but it would be a very small number. Considering how few actually stayed on to pay and add in the ones that stayed on that were willing to pay are hardcore FF fans.Doubtful many of them will bail after being so loyal from the very very rocky start. If anything I'd be more worried about the other end of the spectrum. The legacy players are not going anywhere. It's drawing in new players and the ones (like me) who pretty much left after the first month. With it's less than stellar reputation and MMO's rarely get a second chance without going free2play. It'll be very interesting to see how this goes.


This is a very good point.

They have the legacy players already. We are their customers to lose. Just give us a bunch of repeatable content to tread water until more jobs are released.

The concern should be (and is) new players.

Wint wrote:
Most of the legacy players I know (granted not many made it to cap) are going to start over on a fresh server. They'll keep their old characters for nostalgia but plan on starting over at level 1.


Really?

I'm too attached, but if I only had 1 or 2 jobs at 30-40ish.. yeah I can see that.

I never really leveled, collected, and horded items so I would have some advantage in 2.0, I just want the ability to try everything I can from day 1. I do plan starting from level 1 as Archanist and playing through the storylines.

Legacy servers will be great.... "Looking for 1 Gld more, Smn X3, do you need iit?"

Edited, Apr 29th 2013 2:38pm by Louiscool
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#18 Apr 29 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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I know lots of people are going to have to relearn the game anyway. Some got power levelled in several classes and quit before jobs were even released.

Personally I think things will balance out, due to several factors besides what I just stated. The economy might be ****** though. Lots of gil hoarders out there.
#19 Apr 29 2013 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think the reason a lot of us want to start over is because it really is a new game, and we want to experience everything from the beginning. I'll log into my legacy account once to see what kind of area they start us in and what happens with that, but I'm not even planning on keeping my beta character from phase 4 at this point.
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#20 Apr 29 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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As with most MMO's, there's always a percentage of players who rush to reach the level cap as soon as possible. Some of us like to explore and level with friends and some of us like to be the server first to reach a cap(s). To each his own.
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#21 Apr 29 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Default
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Very good point. Todays MMO space and culture is VERY different from the days of FFXI. Gone are the days of enjoying the journey in a MMO and exploring. Now it's about power leveling and getting to end game content the fastest and most expedient way possible. I just hope the developers realize that's the trend in western mmos since they seem to want to cater more to that side of the spectrum with ARR. And have a lot of end game content/ and or gating to keep it from being consumed in a week like some MMO's. Not that I think gating will be a problem since this is from the same company that gave us Dynamis and HNM's that had 1 day-a week respawn timers in the hope your group was the one that could tag it. Smiley: lol

Edited, Apr 29th 2013 3:14pm by Valeforelacky

Edited, Apr 29th 2013 3:14pm by Valeforelacky
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#23 Apr 29 2013 at 1:32 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Most of the legacy players I know (granted not many made it to cap) are going to start over on a fresh server. They'll keep their old characters for nostalgia but plan on starting over at level 1.


This is True!
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#24 Apr 29 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
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ACLinjury wrote:
As with most MMO's, there's always a percentage of players who rush to reach the level cap as soon as possible. Some of us like to explore and level with friends and some of us like to be the server first to reach a cap(s). To each his own.

With the funny twist that they actually have a perfectly valid excuse to
separate those two conflicting types of players early on.
#25 Apr 29 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Since the op brought up FF XI, i'll say this. Most people playing FF XI that were not Japanese living in japan, started a year after the game released. When we started, there were already a bunch of capped players, and it really only helped the game imo. I think the biggest problem here is legacy players getting their own server, rather than just mixing in with all the new players.
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#26 Apr 29 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't been active on this forum for quite some time, however, with the ARR being in beta my curiosity to play again is peaked and I have started to reread the forums and look at the videos. My character isn't high level in anything so I suppose I could start over if they did a character wipe but I'm glad they didn't. Even for people who didn't max out everything to level 50 they still put time into their characters and playing these old characters may bring back memories that make them reconnect to the game.

This may be a boon to the number of people who resubscribe, or who played during the free phase, as I did for a month, and will now actively subscribe to play again. Wiping all characters and saying start over it's a new game just does not seem like a good option as it devalues all the time the most ardent Final Fantasy XIV supporters placed into the game and into the feedback that made ARR possible. While some people may choose to start over on a 'new players only' server I think the choice to let 1.0 players reconnect with old characters can only be a positive thing.



Edited, Apr 29th 2013 3:52pm by PyrielDD
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#27 Apr 29 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Teneleven wrote:
Since the op brought up FF XI, i'll say this. Most people playing FF XI that were not Japanese living in japan, started a year after the game released. When we started, there were already a bunch of capped players, and it really only helped the game imo. I think the biggest problem here is legacy players getting their own server, rather than just mixing in with all the new players.



I believe Duty Finder is cross servers? Not sure if they cross legacy servers.. But this could help with that some, for those who dont have every job capped or maybe want to experience all the content even low level.. But if it conects all servers non-legacy adn legacy alike, this would help.
#28 Apr 29 2013 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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I'll be doing both for nothing more than the divergent plot-line and the ability to have more than one character around.

I happen to like a lot of the new available genders for races and tribes and will want to play them. And the idea of characters being multiple jobs that are interchangeable on the drop of the hat, while cool for game-play, for me, takes away from the identity of a character.

So yeah. I'll be starting fresh, as well as keeping my own. The impact of the players who have 50s or multiple 50s will likely be very muted.
#29 Apr 29 2013 at 3:25 PM Rating: Good
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I've said for a long time if SE can't convince the older players that they are missing out by not starting over then that is a measure of failure. I don't think it hurts the game in the long run. I personally want to begin again to experience all the new content. It sounds like I'm not the only one either.
#30 Apr 29 2013 at 3:35 PM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
I know lots of people are going to have to relearn the game anyway. Some got power levelled in several classes and quit before jobs were even released.

Personally I think things will balance out, due to several factors besides what I just stated. The economy might be @#%^ed though. Lots of gil hoarders out there.


The economy will be fine. The new servers will take a bit longer to stabilize though. First crafter/gatherer to cap will dictate prices for a bit. I'm pretty sure I have less than 100k, since I spent all on relics. Like many others, I can go out on gather/craft everything. Legacy servers have too much competition to price gouge.

Even if a new person were to join a legacy server, they'd have an abundance of resources at a more competitive price. Even though they may be less likely to craft lower level gear, gathering the materials and paying a fee to have it crafted won't be difficult. There is more good than harm.
#31 Apr 29 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Default
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They cannot wipe character data for 1.0 players, two plus years is too long a time invested. They would have multiple law suits attempted against them. To pretend that players who have been there from the start will have oodles of undone content similar to an ARR beginner is ludicrous.

So what incentive would a 1.0 player have to start from the beginning beside personal preference? I would say to experience the slightly altered main scenario or any main progress quests from beginning to end and leveling a new race.

Personally If I was in charge I would say we won't wipe your data, you can keep all your story and quests progress if you wish. But I would omit the option to change race for 1.0 players without creating a new character. The new races were not implemented during 1.0 anyways. So to stake a right to do this is the same as stating that anytime a new expansion creates new races, they should be allowed to race change once on their main character. I know many people would disagree with this though.

Bottom line is that with the current options. Some players may wish to wipe previous data, maybe just create a new additional character, or stick with their current character. There is not a huge forced incentive to start over that I am aware of currently.
#32 Apr 29 2013 at 4:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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They would have multiple law suits attempted against them

Smiley: rolleyes
Not from anyone who knows what a ToS agreement is.

I would say that while SE technically CAN wipe existing data, doing so wouldn't do them any favors. At the very least they'd lose about 75% of their legacy players automatically. Even those players that intended to start over anyway would probably be pretty offended by a decision like that being forced on them.

I, personally, decided to start on a new server. This is for a couple of different reasons, but the most important one is that I treat this like a brand new game, and so I want to play in a launch environment. A launch environment doesn't have players that started at max level. The economy is open and unhindered with preexisting goods and money. And players are less likely to be really aloof about how big their e-peen is when everyone starts on even footing.

And if you don't think that last one is a thing, observe FFXI: JP response to US launch, US PC response to PS2 launch, everyone's response to EU launch. This is a thing. I choose not to deal with it.
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#33 Apr 29 2013 at 4:25 PM Rating: Excellent
SE could wipe data, but they'd be stupid to do so. They'd drive off a large number of their most loyal customers.

I'm fortunate because although I have a few jobs at lvl 50, I refused to power level very much, so I still have plenty of jobs that I can take through all the low-level content. Hopefully the content/party finder tool works across new and former-player servers, too.

I think there are even benefits for new players to start on the "Legacy" servers. Think about it. There will be congestion in the low-level areas on both server types, but the lowbie congestion on the Legacy servers will not be nearly as intense for such a long period of time. As long as the party finder really works across all servers, I'd almost recommend for anyone to start on a Legacy server.

The only downside to doing so would be starting off with an economic disadvantage, but if a good deal of gear is available through dungeons, then that could be largely a moot point until hitting endgame.
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#34Killua125, Posted: Apr 29 2013 at 4:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I thought about this. Powerleveling was the norm in FFXIV. Not FFXI-type PL, but like going AFK and having a level 50 get you tons of levels in a matter of minutes.
#35 Apr 29 2013 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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There are many people with max characters starting over. More power to them. I may not be entirely correct about this, but its usually people who haven't done much in 1.0 that keep calling for a wipe. Mostly those that don't have much progress to to lose. Maybe it's because a person with maxed characters knows the effort, that it's their choice to start over, and they shouldn't impose it on others?

For some reason they always sound jealous/bitter/anxious about something. The 'new player' only servers pretty much make anything they could have an issue with, moot. Square-Enix screwed this game up, not the gamers. Asking them to impose negative penalties on people who played serves what purpose? Make you feel better?

sandpark wrote:

Personally If I was in charge I would say we won't wipe your data, you can keep all your story and quests progress if you wish. But I would omit the option to change race for 1.0 players without creating a new character. The new races were not implemented during 1.0 anyways. So to stake a right to do this is the same as stating that anytime a new expansion creates new races, they should be allowed to race change once on their main character. I know many people would disagree with this though.

There is not a huge forced incentive to start over that I am aware of currently.


You already know why many people would disagree, yet you still persist in trying to force people to do what you want them to do. What would that restriction do? Make a particular group feel better that the older players "lost" some how? Seems petty.

KingAlkaiser wrote:

so is this game over-casual gameplay and mechanics+ allowing almost everyone near max capped all going to bring more harm than good? am i alone on this? or imagine this what would happen if you release a mmorpg with everyone in the game at capped lv?


Smiley: rolleyes Well, since everyone wont be at cap, I guess we'll never know.

I started FFXI at ps2 Launch in the US. I understand the large advantage the JP had, and quickly found out I'd never catch up. Again, new starting servers/simultaneous launch solves that. I'm content in getting the "new game" feel from Arcanist. If I run out of content, that'd be my fault now wouldn't it?

I suppose It'd be pointless to start any MMO after some time has passed. That new player would be so disadvantaged.

Inb4 "Check your Legacy Privilege" Smiley: tongue
#36 Apr 29 2013 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I suppose It'd be pointless to start any MMO after some time has passed. That new player would be so disadvantaged.


This mentality is exactly why I think more games should open fresh servers periodically. I know plenty of people who wouldn't bother to play a game that had been out for 3 years because they wouldn't want to be a n00b on an established server, but if they knew that a new server opened every spring or winter, they'd happily wait to join the new one.
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#37 Apr 29 2013 at 5:13 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
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I suppose It'd be pointless to start any MMO after some time has passed. That new player would be so disadvantaged.


This mentality is exactly why I think more games should open fresh servers periodically. I know plenty of people who wouldn't bother to play a game that had been out for 3 years because they wouldn't want to be a n00b on an established server, but if they knew that a new server opened every spring or winter, they'd happily wait to join the new one.


A lot of games do do this - open new servers specifically aimed at new players/fresh starts. It just means the game has to be successful or it's going to be a dead server.
#38 Apr 29 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Decent
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GDLYL wrote:


For some reason they always sound jealous/bitter/anxious about something. The 'new player' only servers pretty much make anything they could have an issue with, moot. Square-Enix screwed this game up, not the gamers. Asking them to impose negative penalties on people who played serves what purpose? Make you feel better?

sandpark wrote:

Personally If I was in charge I would say we won't wipe your data, you can keep all your story and quests progress if you wish. But I would omit the option to change race for 1.0 players without creating a new character. The new races were not implemented during 1.0 anyways. So to stake a right to do this is the same as stating that anytime a new expansion creates new races, they should be allowed to race change once on their main character. I know many people would disagree with this though.

There is not a huge forced incentive to start over that I am aware of currently.


You already know why many people would disagree, yet you still persist in trying to force people to do what you want them to do. What would that restriction do? Make a particular group feel better that the older players "lost" some how? Seems petty.

Many people will disagree or agree with anything done regardless of what SE does. Just like children disagree with their parents, parents disagree with their children, husbands disagree with wives, etc, etc.

SE would not be forcing the player into anything. The option is keep your gained status but you can't race switch or race switch but lose your status on your main character. The restriction would give someone who wants to play a new race start anew. Just as you did when first progressing your main character after deciding on a race. If you didn't like your race in 1.0? You started a new character right? SE shouldn't worry about if one group feels better about a hard decision that was made for the greater good. A parent does not discriminate between which child feels more superior between two siblings. Lest they be seen as having a favorite.

The new races were not implemented during 1.0 anyways. So to stake a right to do this is the same as stating that anytime a new expansion creates new races, they should be allowed to race change once on their main character. You can't have something taken away you never had to begin with, or in other words. It is not a penalty.

The legacy option is your privilege.
#39 Apr 29 2013 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
Kachi wrote:
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I suppose It'd be pointless to start any MMO after some time has passed. That new player would be so disadvantaged.


This mentality is exactly why I think more games should open fresh servers periodically. I know plenty of people who wouldn't bother to play a game that had been out for 3 years because they wouldn't want to be a n00b on an established server, but if they knew that a new server opened every spring or winter, they'd happily wait to join the new one.


A lot of games do do this - open new servers specifically aimed at new players/fresh starts. It just means the game has to be successful or it's going to be a dead server.


Right, but they're typically pretty bad about promoting it. At least insofar as I have seen.
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#40Killua125, Posted: Apr 29 2013 at 5:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I guess. Sometimes they can be pretty enticing for new people. Start on the new server, get double EXP for a while, bonus packs, etc.
#41 Apr 29 2013 at 5:56 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Most of the legacy players I know (granted not many made it to cap) are going to start over on a fresh server. They'll keep their old characters for nostalgia but plan on starting over at level 1.


Not me, I'm definitely going to be torn though if you guys choose a fresh start server.... I want to keep my crap. The gil I'm not overly concerned about, but I EARNED the primal weapons I have along with a few other things. As a semi-casual player I can't really justify throwing the levels I earned away either. However, I DO want to be with our community in game :(
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#42 Apr 29 2013 at 6:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I still stand by my statement that I would not play ARR if my character was wiped clean. I've stayed loyal, paid my monthly fees and gotten all the perks and etc.

Besides! I want to see how my character survived through all of that mess. As for all of the new quests and content and etc, I plan on playing with some of the PS3 friends that are joining me with Arcanist and I can experience the game anew with that. Oh, and don't forget level sync. I imagine the dungeons are going to be level synced too. I doubt that us, the legacy-everything-at-50's will be bored. ****, I have primals to beat, a house to build, and relic weapons and Ifrit Extreme to down.
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#43 Apr 29 2013 at 6:39 PM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
Many people will disagree or agree with anything done regardless of what SE does. Just like children disagree with their parents, parents disagree with their children, husbands disagree with wives, etc, etc.


Eh?

sandpark wrote:
SE would not be forcing the player into anything. The option is keep your gained status but you can't race switch or race switch but lose your status on your main character. The restriction would give someone who wants to play a new race start anew. Just as you did when first progressing your main character after deciding on a race. If you didn't like your race in 1.0? You started a new character right? SE shouldn't worry about if one group feels better about a hard decision that was made for the greater good. A parent does not discriminate between which child feels more superior between two siblings. Lest they be seen as having a favorite.


Preventing an old player from experiencing what the new players can, due to a failed game isn't discrimination? Who's superior? New people get their own servers.

sandpark wrote:
The new races were not implemented during 1.0 anyways. So to stake a right to do this is the same as stating that anytime a new expansion creates new races, they should be allowed to race change once on their main character. You can't have something taken away you never had to begin with, or in other words. It is not a penalty.

[quote=sandpark]The legacy option is your privilege.


I always thought privileges were unearned benefits. I recall going to work, and paying for 90 days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhXMGO7Cfw

I wonder how many people would have continued playing knowing their progress would be wiped? I suppose that's why it was announced very early that progress carried over. The idea behind ARR has nothing to do with any of your strange parental analogies, it's what the game should have been. It's also knowing that you screwed up, and you must now take ownership and fix it. Placing arbitrary restrictions hinders that. Allowing old players to switch races doesn't hurt new players.

There are new customizations like hair/color/body size etc that were't available at 1.0 launch. Preventing them from changing does what? I'm asking you. What purpose does that serve? Is that not a penalty for having an old character? There is no purpose for that, other than making new players feel like they have something over old players. There is a HUGE difference in you being responsible for creating your character in a finished product, and a company re-releasing a complete game, and allowing you more complete options at later time, after creating a failed product. ARR isn't an expansion, try to stay on point. This game doesn't lock you into a role like other MMOs that encourage multiple characters to experience different jobs. Even though people clamor for new races, I doubt very much that he'll comply.

You agree that people shouldn't lose their hard work/progress. Yet for some reason, you placed a restriction on them. As if, because they have progress, they should lose at something else. The inability to transfer servers is a restriction that actually serves a purpose. New players should get fresh servers. The old players had their fresh servers.




Edited, Apr 29th 2013 8:41pm by GDLYL
#44 Apr 29 2013 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
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I'm going to start over on a new server, so it doesn't make any difference to me.
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#45 Apr 29 2013 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
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GDLYL wrote:


Preventing an old player from experiencing what the new players can, due to a failed game isn't discrimination? Who's superior? New people get their own servers.

Even with the race restriction no one would be stopping you from creating a new character. What can a new player experience that you wouldn't be able to or have experienced? In this case the 1.0 servers are superior. At least you had the chance to play the game, broken or not. Console players were denied that chance. New servers is SE's way of letting console players know, sorry for the wait. While the other side got one year of free access, names in the credits, and helped shape the game into something better.
GDLYL wrote:

I always thought privileges were unearned benefits. I recall going to work, and paying for 90 days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUhXMGO7Cfw

I wonder how many people would have continued playing knowing their progress would be wiped? I suppose that's why it was announced very early that progress carried over. The idea behind ARR has nothing to do with any of your strange parental analogies, it's what the game should have been. It's also knowing that you screwed up, and you must now take ownership and fix it. Placing arbitrary restrictions hinders that. Allowing old players to switch races doesn't hurt new players.

Privileges can be given earned or unearned. In the old days, people were born into nobility or wealth. So they did not personally earn that privilege. In a present day company, they might have company bbqs or other perks provided you did a good job to show appreciation.

SE is not forcing a character wipe. My analogies make perfect sense. And no ARR is not what the game should have been. The original version should have released full featured, bug free, lag free, etc. ARR is a new version directed by a new director and has drastically changed into a different game from the original in almost every way besides the title. Early previews say the ARR version is better but it's still different.

GDLYL wrote:
There are new customizations like hair/color/body size etc that were't available at 1.0 launch. Preventing them from changing does what? I'm asking you. What purpose does that serve? Is that not a penalty for having an old character? There is no purpose for that, other than making new players feel like they have something over old players. There is a HUGE difference in you being responsible for creating your character in a finished product, and a company re-releasing a complete game, and allowing you more complete options at later time, after creating a failed product. ARR isn't an expansion, try to stay on point. This game doesn't lock you into a role like other MMOs that encourage multiple characters to experience different jobs. Even though people clamor for new races, I doubt very much that he'll comply.

You agree that people shouldn't lose their hard work/progress. Yet for some reason, you placed a restriction on them. As if, because they have progress, they should lose at something else. The inability to transfer servers is a restriction that actually serves a purpose. New players should get fresh servers. The old players had their fresh servers.

Customizing a race you chose previously is very different from selecting a whole other race and starting from scratch. It's like equipping new armor. Equipping new armor doesn't change your lore, family, or what not. The original version might have released dismally compared to triple A mmos. But it did release as what someone there deemed a finished product. You are right, ARR is no expansion. It is basically a brand new game. But even if it was an expansion which introduced new races. Are you telling me that should be able to change races each and every time a new race is implemented at different points in time?
The game will shift to whatever demand calls for. So if enough people clamor for new races, it will be done at some point.

What restriction would make them lose something? You cannot be punished/penalized/have taken away for something you didn't have before. I agree with your quote about me saying people shouldn't lose their hard work/progress. You capped your current progress on whatever race you chose. Had you capped it on one of the new races, I would see your point. You would still be free to either start fresh with a new race or continue with your current race and keep your progress. A restriction would mean you had no choice.

Anyways I am not the director and my points are hypothetical. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
#46 Apr 29 2013 at 11:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm one of the old players that fully intends on playing my 1.0 character in ARR. While I have all the DoM and DoW classes/jobs at max, most of my DoL and DoH classes are only around level 25 or so. I'll still be able to experience new content with arcanist/summoner, so to me, there's no point in starting over.
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#47 Apr 30 2013 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
You are right, ARR is no expansion. It is basically a brand new game. But even if it was an expansion which introduced new races. Are you telling me that should be able to change races each and every time a new race is implemented at different points in time?

Anyways I am not the director and my points are hypothetical. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


You can't tell me I'm right, it's not an expansion. Then change my words to make it seem like I'm asking for race changes after future expansions. Stay on point please. A failed MMO and a reboot, isn't the same as a success followed by an expansion. If it were so, we wouldn't be having this conversation. There is no precedent for this. I think S-E would classify this as exigent circumstance.

True, you aren't. I was just trying to ascertain why people usually feel the need to bring others down a notch, just so they feel better, and what reasons they give to justify it. (In the FFXIV community context) The confirmation for old players to re create is there. It was just perplexing why you would personally omit it, if you had your way. Meaning, you're against SE allowing old players to do so. You aren't legacy I take it?
#48 Apr 30 2013 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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GDLYL wrote:
The economy will be fine. The new servers will take a bit longer to stabilize though. First crafter/gatherer to cap will dictate prices for a bit. I'm pretty sure I have less than 100k, since I spent all on relics. Like many others, I can go out on gather/craft everything. Legacy servers have too much competition to price gouge.
Not to mention that thankfully 1.0 did not have economy-busters like Lineage II's Grim Collector quest. This combined with the "you keep 1/10 of your total gil" should give us a decent start. The rest is really up to how gil sinks are structured, just how embedded is crafting and AH to character progression and how players price things.

While I plan to hang on to my character (only lv50 class being GLA/PLD), I do have afriend who is weary of the idea of level capped people being on the same server as him. Really debating whether to just remake my lalafell when the time comes.
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#49 Apr 30 2013 at 2:11 AM Rating: Good
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If you don't mind me asking, what did the Lineage II's Grim Collector entail? I didn't play it. I think people are gonna be doing 1/10th conversions for awhile. I know I am. If I wouldn't pay 3 mil for an item in 1.0, I sure as **** wont pay 300k in ARR. Smiley: lol

I'd just go where the friend goes lol, It's only one level 50 class. Unless you had others leveled, but just not 50. It would be nice to have a PLD 50 to farm with though! My friends can go kick rocks, they quit, came back for legacy, and quit again. They're stuck with me!
#50 Apr 30 2013 at 4:14 AM Rating: Decent
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GDLYL wrote:
If you don't mind me asking, what did the Lineage II's Grim Collector entail? I didn't play it.
Most of L2's quests gave very paltry rewards. The only quest that gave anything lucrative was a one-shot quest called The Grim Collector. You had to kill skeletons until you had enough bones to build a skeleton, and when you brought it to the questgiver he would give you around 25K adena, which is a lot compared to what other quests gave you.

The quest itself was not a problem, rather the fact that it was bugged is what created the economic mess that ensued. Open Beta L2 was laggy as ****, and something in the server code allowed it to register quest completion multiple times if the lag was considerable. So what clans did was create conditions that led to lag spikes (most common was dropping money on the floor) and then keep handing in the quest. The server would register the quest hand in multiple times and give out the reward multiple times. It's known that entire clans (and based on the huge RMT boom that followed, gold farmers as well) would abuse this and get a crapton of money between multiple members and their alts.

Lineage II went live and the Grim Collector quest was removed, but the money those clans made through the bug was not. Progress from open beta carried over on to live, so you can imagine the type of problems that created.
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#51 Apr 30 2013 at 6:27 AM Rating: Decent
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Kaelanis wrote:
I'm one of the old players that fully intends on playing my 1.0 character in ARR. While I have all the DoM and DoW classes/jobs at max, most of my DoL and DoH classes are only around level 25 or so. I'll still be able to experience new content with arcanist/summoner, so to me, there's no point in starting over.


This too. I saved all of my crafting for 2.0, and my highest craft is 40 Blacksmith, leveled out of necessity from 50 mining.

I also saved Paladin and Monk to level in ARR, and was only powerleveled on WHM, mainly because my ls desperately needed more WHMs to run content.


Lastly, with the very probable overhaul to jobs and their abilities, it wouldn't surprise me to have to go through the questlines for your jobs again to unlock some abilities. But, again, I was a big fan of the storyline in 1.0 and want to continue that progress, not start anew as some lowly adventurer.

I saved the godamned world, I'll be damned if I won't be rewarded for it.
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