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Sneak Peak at Phase 3 BetaFollow

#52 May 07 2013 at 12:22 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
A fanboy is a male (although sometimes used neutrally) who is highly devoted and biased in opinion towards a single subject or hobby within a given field
- wikipedia.

I love this game and am probably more excited than many and will devote mucho tiempo y dinero to it. Does that mean it's perfect? Of course it isn't. What is? Are we mature enough to allow one person to simply point out a particular thing that they find not perfect? Apparently not. Thus fanboyism comes does into play. When we do not have the ability look at the individual parts that make up the whole and instead blindly sit, drooling, and saying "omg I haz to haz it," then yes, we become fanboys, plain and simple.

On another note, this has turned into a flame war because he pointed out an obvious imperfection that made everyone so sad that [they] started the extreme negativity that ensued. If someone pointing out imperfect grass hurts another persons "excitement" that badly I truly don't know how that person would survive in the real world where criticism (that is actually directed at them and not a 3rd party) is abundant. This has nothing to do with good or bad grass and everything to do with "you criticized something that I find infallible, and now I'm mad."

Edited, May 7th 2013 2:26pm by electromagnet83
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#53 May 07 2013 at 12:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grass has its own slider under the benchmark and in the (NDA). I see no reason why they'd remove that from the official release.
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#54 May 07 2013 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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You know, when everyone responds to Killua, it makes it hard to ignore his trolling.

See? I had to mention it too. Next he'll point out that the stars in the sky are appearing in the wrong position for the 7th Umbral era and we will have to research for hours to prove him wrong.

Don't let that happen.
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#55 May 07 2013 at 12:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Going to have to agree with electromagnet on this one. I don't give a **** about minor graphical "imperfections" like the grass (didn't bother me in the slightest, personally), but if you're going to suggest that people exercise the restraint to not share their criticism about something they don't like, perhaps you start by doing the same. He's sharing his opinion about the grass, which is in FFXIV-related opinion that belongs on an FFXIV forum. Some of you are sharing your opinion about his posting habits, which is really nothing but bickering. You can offer your counterpoint on why the grass is fine without complaining about people who complain.

Honestly I'm a little tired of people jumping down Killua's throat, when at least that I've seen, his criticisms have been measured and fair, and he's been perfectly respectful about them. He's even been pretty good about disengaging when people are clearly instigating.

You disagree? Fine. Disagree back. That's how we have conversation. That's what keeps the forum alive. We don't need to complain that someone has different opinions than ours.
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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#56 May 07 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
Going to have t....
......ping down Killua's throat, when at least that I've seen, his criticisms have been measured and fair, and he's been perfectly respectful about them. He's even been pretty good abo......
You disagree? Fine. Disagree back. Tha......


That's the smartest thing I've ever heard anybody say about anything.
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#57 May 07 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Look the grass looks bad you know it we know it.

The people that complain about killua are doing so because they are "tired" and what do i mean with that. Killua seems that has undertaken a quest to find all the things he believe as wrong and problematic in the game and point them out one after another again and again. He sometimes also makes threads that to someone that haven't read his previous post would seem normal but if someone did read the others will understand that they are made again in an effort to undermine the game. I can bring examples of this like the "star wars vs ARR" thread or the one about if "ARR is too expensive".

That is ok of course and he is in titled to have his own opinion for the game and normally i would say that he would do a nice job if his effort was to show this problems so that they can be fixed.That is not the case though. I too agree that the grass is sh*tty in that screenshot (not that i care but anyway) but the way he said it and with his post history its hard for most people to not attack him.

And another thing is i have seen killua saying a good thing for the game like once or twice and then all of his posts are full of problems and whatnot of the game. Reading some of his posts someone would think this game would go down before it even launch. So i can't say that killua is objective since he only shows hate for the game.

So yea i do not normally attack to a person directly so if i done it i apologize but as killua has opinions i too have so again excuse me. :)


Sorry for the off topic.

Edited, May 7th 2013 3:29pm by Teravibe
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#58 May 07 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Who cares what his posting "trends" are? Threads are designed to segregate ideas--to break up the trends of posters into trends of ideas. That's what a thread is--a topic. If he's on-topic and respectful, what does anything else matter? The way people complain about it, you'd think they were forced to subscribe to his newsletter.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#59 May 07 2013 at 1:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Who cares what his posting "trends" are? Threads are designed to segregate ideas--to break up the trends of posters into trends of ideas. That's what a thread is--a topic. If he's on-topic and respectful, what does anything else matter? The way people complain about it, you'd think they were forced to subscribe to his newsletter.



Well i can agree with that i guess.
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#60 May 07 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Default
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Teravibe wrote:
Look the grass looks bad you know it we know it.

The people that complain about killua are doing so because they are "tired" and what do i mean with that. Killua seems that has undertaken a quest to find all the things he believe as wrong and problematic in the game and point them out one after another again and again. He sometimes also makes threads that to someone that haven't read his previous post would seem normal but if someone did read the others will understand that they are made again in an effort to undermine the game. I can bring examples of this like the "star wars vs ARR" thread or the one about if "ARR is too expensive".

That is ok of course and he is in titled to have his own opinion for the game and normally i would say that he would do a nice job if his effort was to show this problems so that they can be fixed.That is not the case though. I too agree that the grass is sh*tty in that screenshot (not that i care but anyway) but the way he said it and with his post history its hard for most people to not attack him.

And another thing is i have seen killua saying a good thing for the game like once or twice and then all of his posts are full of problems and whatnot of the game. Reading some of his posts someone would think this game would go down before it even launch. So i can't say that killua is objective since he only shows hate for the game.

So yea i do not normally attack to a person directly so if i done it i apologize but as killua has opinions i too have so again excuse me. :)


Sorry for the off topic.

Edited, May 7th 2013 3:29pm by Teravibe


Sounds like Killua is just a generally pessimistic person. But hey, the world needs those too, right? Criticism is what has helped turn ARR 180 degrees into something spectacularly different than 1.0. If everyone thought that 1.0 was perfect, or was too afraid to voice their opinions, we would have never moved on. Sure, grass is a bit tedious and mundane to discuss but that's what any legit reviewer or blogger is going to do. Like a food critic they have the ability to say what is good and what is bad without one thing (like grass) meaning that the whole thing is bad. His post, nor any of the subsequent ones ever remotely implied that the grass was a deal breaker or that, as a result of it the entire game is trash. It was a very simple, quick, and concise observation that it looks bad. What erupted beyond that is sadly not Killua's fault.
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#61 May 07 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Good
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And to bring this back to the topic of the OP. Three new Beta phase 3 screenshots have been posted on FB

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/464097_10151641379925871_1498244965_o.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/919025_10151641379920871_25052588_o.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/459852_10151641379935871_2085760482_o.jpg

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#62 May 07 2013 at 2:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thank God there's no grass in those Smiley: tongue
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#63 May 07 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Thank God there's no grass in those Smiley: tongue


lol -.-
#64 May 07 2013 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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There is, however. Mi'qote dancers... mmm...

I wonder if they're from the Miner's Guild. I certainly hope this means the ones in the Miners Guild are still around and doing their job...
#65 May 07 2013 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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Teravibe wrote:
My god the grass THE GRASS how am i supposed to play a game if the GRASS looks like that!! huh?!

When i log in my MMO since i am a no lifer i want to spend my morning while looking to the grass and feeling (well my character) the small breeze. So what am i supposed to do if the freekin grass looks like that!! GOD!!


I literally laughed out loud ready that. I'm surprised the discussion of grass has been this lengthy. And yea I like how they are providing more screenshots while we wait for phase 3 :)
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#66 May 08 2013 at 2:55 AM Rating: Default
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I just wish they would make a helm with some of that grass on it. I want to wear that grass proudly.
#67 May 08 2013 at 6:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Screenshot


Smiley: grin.
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#68 May 08 2013 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Hahaha! Smiley: lol

I'm really looking forward to phase 3. I love Gridania but Limsa Lominsa is calling me.

Edited, May 8th 2013 9:07am by Adzieboy
#69 May 08 2013 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
I hate to be "that guy", but what's going on with the grass in this screenshot?

It reminds me of the SNES era. https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/920919_10151637896505871_1876398806_o.jpg


What I bolded is the problem with his post, at least to me. It's the pointless exaggeration that annoys me. So you're saying this looks like this? Really? I agree the grass isn't brilliant, but come on, comparing it to the SNES was just a flat out troll comment used to incite people into responding... and it worked.

Back on topic, the screens all look very nice. I'm looking forward to playing the beta, perfectly modeled and shaded grass or no.
#70 May 08 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Just be thankful the grass doesn't look like this:

What bad grass actually looks like

Also, not to say "it's only beta" but.. it is. We don't know what phase this is from, but the graphical engine isn't even optimized yet and they haven't added GPU nvidia/ati profiles yet so the game is being run mostly from CPU. They haven't even implemented physics or finalized character animation.

So I think it's SAFE to assume, the grass was the last thing on their "To-Do" lists.
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#71 May 08 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Just be thankful the grass doesn't look like this:

What bad grass actually looks like

Also, not to say "it's only beta" but.. it is. We don't know what phase this is from, but the graphical engine isn't even optimized yet and they haven't added GPU nvidia/ati profiles yet so the game is being run mostly from CPU. They haven't even implemented physics or finalized character animation.

So I think it's SAFE to assume, the grass was the last thing on their "To-Do" lists.


Point proved. I know this is going to be hard for some, if not everyone. But look at the screen by Killua (or the one by me) and look at that one you just posted. Take out of context ALL the other stuff except the grass. If you can manage to do that, you'll realize that the tall grass itself looks very, very similar in the two games as far as resolution is concerned. There's just more of it in the more modern game.

edit: Also, it's hard to digest my comparison because the one screen is far away from the grass and the FFXI screen is RIGHT up on it. Trust me when I say that in Gridania, I've looked up close....it's pretty brutal.

Edited, May 8th 2013 4:07pm by electromagnet83
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#72 May 08 2013 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
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^^ I don't know, I mean I agree with you that it look mediocre but I didn't care as much. Like, it's beta and I doubt Yoshi-P ever asked the testers to compare the grass fidelity or test graphics.

I see it, it's meh. But I am optimistic that they wouldn't go through all the effort of making the game look gorgeous without noticing the 2d grass sprites.
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#73 May 08 2013 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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electromagnet83 wrote:
Point proved. I know this is going to be hard for some, if not everyone. But look at the screen by Killua (or the one by me) and look at that one you just posted. Take out of context ALL the other stuff except the grass. If you can manage to do that, you'll realize that the tall grass itself looks very, very similar in the two games as far as resolution is concerned. There's just more of it in the more modern game.

Edited, May 8th 2013 4:07pm by electromagnet83


Uh, you can do the exact same thing with the screenshot of XIII-2 you showed and make a similar argument. The grass isn't anything special in that screenshot, there's just more of it and it has 1 more level of anti-aliasing on it. It still doesn't look like grass, it looks like a bunch of stalks of slightly different colored green stuff stuck onto a field. Up close, it still looks pretty bad, just not as bad as FFXIV grass, but that's to be expected when comparing a game that can have 100's of people traversing a small section and needs to be optimized vs. a 1 player game. You're grasping at straws, no pun intended. Smiley: grin
#74 May 08 2013 at 4:18 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
Just be thankful the grass doesn't look like this:

What bad grass actually looks like


... that IS what it looks like.
#75 May 08 2013 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Just be thankful the grass doesn't look like this:

What bad grass actually looks like


... that IS what it looks like.


Well, since you're first comparison was to the SNES, at least you're making progress. But no, the grass in FFXI is considerably worse than FFXIV, though neither is very good.
#76 May 08 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Grass


There, I made a compilation - with the surrounding nice textures taken away - of the 2.0 grass, XI grass, XIII-2 Grass, and for good measure I threw in XIV 1.0 grass. These images were not edited in any way. I snipped them out of the original picture and posted them all in a single column. Surprisingly from top to bottom we have 1.0 looking the most high-res, followed by XIII-2 (although yes, there's more and it's wavy), and then XI and XIV 2.0 both coming in last looking, at least in my eye, roughly exactly the same.


Can we end the grass argument now?

Edited, May 8th 2013 6:48pm by electromagnet83
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#77 May 08 2013 at 5:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yes do, or I'll notch another locked thread on my belt.
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#78 May 09 2013 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I have some more pictures, I'll send them to you wint so you can decide whether or not to post em :)
#79Ostia, Posted: May 09 2013 at 11:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Omg somebody said something negative Smiley: frown PLEASE LOCK DOWN THE THREAD!!!
#80 May 09 2013 at 11:36 AM Rating: Default
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New Facebook Screenshots (4)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/943175_10151644383750871_1662973523_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/923543_10151644383760871_1588026474_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/931419_10151644383785871_25132316_n.jpg

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/936341_10151644383870871_221330367_n.jpg


....at least I can walk away from this inevitably locked thread knowing I tried, several times, to direct it back on-topic. Le sigh

Edited, May 9th 2013 1:53pm by electromagnet83
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#81 May 09 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Omg somebody said something negative Smiley: frown PLEASE LOCK DOWN THE THREAD!!!


I think it's more based on the fact that we just had a 1.5 page argument about grass. Smiley: lol
#82 May 09 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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#83 May 09 2013 at 12:26 PM Rating: Default
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The lighting in that first Limsa nightshot looks sweet.
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#84 May 09 2013 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, that first shot looks so crisp. Very excited for this :)
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#85 May 09 2013 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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electromagnet83 wrote:
The lighting in that first Limsa nightshot looks sweet.


Right? It is my favorite SS of the game thus far. I'm still torn though which starting city because that Ul'dah pic from earlier in the thread is also sweet. Have you planned your starting city yet?

Veagan wrote:
Wow, that first shot looks so crisp. Very excited for this :)


Me too :) The night sky is truly captivating IMO.
#86 May 09 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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There is a grass artist somewhere at SE headquarters crying his eyes out.

The new limsa screens are awesome. Not that I would ever betray my country by moving to one of those other lesser cities.
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#87 May 09 2013 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Actually, it's pretty clear that there isn't a grass artist. Someone gave their kid their copy of CS2 and said, "Here Maru-chan. Draw daddy some digital grass!"
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#88 May 09 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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I come back to this thread days later and you guys are still talking about grass... Anyway, the new screenshots look amazing as always. I can't wait to go fishing in Limsa.
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#89 May 09 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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Love that nighttime shot in Limsa there. That looks fantastic.
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#90 May 09 2013 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Atkascha wrote:
I come back to this thread days later and you guys are still talking about grass...


If you can't laugh about it, it's gotten too serious.
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#91 May 09 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
I come back to this thread days later and you guys are still talking about grass...


If you can't laugh about it, it's gotten too serious.


Oh no, it's funny in a sad way that we seriously have nothing else to talk about. This month between beta phases is going to be a long one indeed.
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#92 May 09 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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Atkascha wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
I come back to this thread days later and you guys are still talking about grass...


If you can't laugh about it, it's gotten too serious.


Oh no, it's funny in a sad way that we seriously have nothing else to talk about. This month between beta phases is going to be a long one indeed.


Indeed!

That's why I resubbed FFXI after 2 years gone.
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#93 May 09 2013 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:

Indeed!

That's why I resubbed FFXI after 2 years gone.


I wish I could do the same thing. I left right before the servers merged. From what I've seen, the game isn't the same anymore. I don't think I'd enjoy myself like I used to, especially with XIV this close to release. I've been sticking to other artsy hobbies in the mean time.
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#94 May 09 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Default
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Atkascha wrote:
Louiscool wrote:

Indeed!

That's why I resubbed FFXI after 2 years gone.


I wish I could do the same thing. I left right before the servers merged. From what I've seen, the game isn't the same anymore. I don't think I'd enjoy myself like I used to, especially with XIV this close to release. I've been sticking to other artsy hobbies in the mean time.


I actually had a dream last night that me and my brother were IN Final Fantasy XI. And I was trying to explain why it was so awesome. All he could focus on were the outdated graphics but I was all like, "No look out there, the perspective they provide is awesome, this world 'feels' truly huge!"

Anyways..
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#95 May 09 2013 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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#96 May 09 2013 at 3:28 PM Rating: Good
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I don't understand why you quoted my post. I never said anything about the graphics or the world not being up to par. All of my friends have moved on from XI and are waiting for XIV. Doesn't make much sense for me to go back and pay a subscription for such a short time when we're months away from release.
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#97 May 09 2013 at 3:53 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
Your dreams are boring.


I could have gotten mad at that but instead lol'd for real because it's sad but true. I dream about the most boring crap.
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The entire Universe to the furthest Galaxy, we are told, is no more than a closed electron existing as part of a much bigger Universe we can never see. And that Universe is only an elementary particle in a still grander Universe. An infinite regression, up and down. - Carl Sagan

Check out my Gamer Blog at http://www.baffledgamer.com/
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