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#27 May 08 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
Nice response! Good insights.

That said, I don't think there are any huge differences between someone who played 1.x vs someone who played Guild Wars 2. These are just games we are talking about. I know there are many Legacy players who will be starting fresh on new servers. I think the diehard anti-legacy crowd has the potential to be a more vocal fringe of the community. Most people don't care about who is legacy and who isn't, because it's pointless.

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What made them stay probably recurs within the group more commonly than outside of it. If this group appeared in a formal research paper, no one would say you could easily apply what you found in their group to any other.


You almost make it sound like if a study shows people enjoy playing RIFT, then they may be more likely to be pyromaniacs.

Edited, May 8th 2013 8:41am by Thayos
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#28 May 08 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:

I don't think there are any huge differences between someone who played 1.x vs someone who played Guild Wars 2.
I think the diehard anti-legacy crowd has the potential to be a more vocal fringe of the community.
You almost make it sound like if a study shows people enjoy playing RIFT, then they may be more likely to be pyromaniacs.


Nah, probably not across games. The same people try these games, but different people leave versus stay for each particular one. In the middle years of FFXI you would have had to look hard for a player who wished the game would go more friendly and inclusive. It wasn't because all gamers liked Rise of the Zilart and Chains of Promathia's exclusive, punishing workstyle, it was because only one kind of player was left in the game by that time. Playing (surviving?) FFXI very much does say things about me whether I want them to or not. Not all apply, but enough do to explain why I played it so long.

The anti-legacy crowd probably has issues of their own. Some may just be jerks. Some jealous. Some may have fought tooth and nail with game defenders over how badly this game did/didn't stink, and it's still personal. Some may think that ARR is alive only because they called it out for being bad, and the legacy members are part of the problem, still claiming it is good enough. I do know that a lot of legacy members can come off as obstructionist to making this game what the rest of us all think it can be.

I enjoyed Rift thoroughly through Maelforge, but that game was done so well that I can't say it speaks things about me. Me enjoying FFXI and me playing XIV 1.0 way too much certainly tells everyone I'm a FF fanboy.
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#29 May 08 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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You almost make it sound like if a study shows people enjoy playing RIFT, then they may be more likely to be pyromaniacs


First day of my first statistics class, the instructor told us "statistics can be made to say anything you want them to say."

If I draw enough graphs and pivot enough tables, I can probably find a link between enjoying Guild Wars 2 and an unmitigated love of sardine-flavored jelly bellies.

Doesn't mean there IS one, just means I can show one. Politicians do this all the time, but without the irony.
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#30 May 08 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
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You almost make it sound like if a study shows people enjoy playing RIFT, then they may be more likely to be pyromaniacs


First day of my first statistics class, the instructor told us "statistics can be made to say anything you want them to say."

If I draw enough graphs and pivot enough tables, I can probably find a link between enjoying Guild Wars 2 and an unmitigated love of sardine-flavored jelly bellies.

Doesn't mean there IS one, just means I can show one. Politicians do this all the time, but without the irony.


Never tried sardine, but I did try booger, dirt, and pickle flavored jelly bellies when they put out that Bertie Botts box when HP was all the rage lol
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#31 May 08 2013 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
There wasn't just one type of gamer left in ffxi after CoP. However, you could definitely say that almost everyone in the game at that time had at least one thing in common. I am just not sure what that one thing is, or how unique it would really be. It was more acceptable back then, and more the norm, for video games in general to not be so easy.
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#32 May 08 2013 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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But a single type can be so broad as to mean insistant enough to unlock sky and sea. I would feel badly for ffxi players who made it all the way to ToaU with access to neither, and they were a kind of player that ffxi did not treat well in the mid years. And the devs took a lot of flak for how much ToaU babysat players, so to speak.

I wonder what would have become of ffxi had RoZ and CoP not happened. It and xi players as a group would definitely not be the same.

Edited, May 8th 2013 5:11pm by benjjjamin

Edited, May 8th 2013 5:14pm by benjjjamin
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#33 May 08 2013 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
The Legacy debate isn't as big as people are making it out to be. Most people simply don't care.

But hey, I love a bit of trolling as much as the next guy, so...

Not all non-Legacy players are whiny little newbies who think they're entitled to everything. I'm even friends with some of them.


The entitled ones are the legacy ones..... Tho non legacy players have a sense of entitlement too XD!
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#34 May 08 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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The entitled ones are the legacy ones


If by "entitled" you mean "the people who are receiving the benefits from SE," then you are correct.

For the fringe segment of non-legacy players who can't stop complaining, the word "entitled" applies to them differently.
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#35 May 08 2013 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
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The entitled ones are the legacy ones


If by "entitled" you mean "the people who are receiving the benefits from SE," then you are correct.

For the fringe segment of non-legacy players who can't stop complaining, the word "entitled" applies to them differently.


Benefits ? I hardly see any benefits on being legacy, other than you get to have your name on the credits, outside of that SE has not delivered anything outside of the box for legacy players.... Alpha test where not legacy only, neither was beta, and w/o legacy, SE would have had to do what it basically did, invite people from outside legacy Smiley: lol Legacy players have a sense of ownership of the game, and if you do not like it 100% and i mean EVERYTHING! You will have some serious problems with them.

The fringe of non legacy players are entitled because SE entitled them :) This is their game, ARR is not for the legacy players, is for the non legacy players, legacy players would have played ARR even if it was for the first gameboy, non legacy on the other hand, are not gonna touch this title unless is up to their standards, and SE is more than happy to deliver.
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#36 May 08 2013 at 10:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hardly see any benefits on being legacy


Well, to me, the real benefit is the savings on my monthly fee... and it's such a small amount, it's really no big deal... but still, I'll take it.

And I'm not trying to say that non-Legacy players aren't important. What I'm saying is that SE clearly defined the conditions of the Legacy program to ALL players, and only certain players met the conditions to qualify for that Legacy program... so THOSE are the people who are entitled to receive the benefits.

Those who are not entitled to receive the benefits are, well, not really entitled... but a small number of them "feel" entitled.

With ARR in beta, non-Legacy players are on equal footing with Legacy players. Neither group is more important. It's just that several months ago, Legacy players went out of their way to meet certain terms and conditions to qualify for a program called the "Legacy" program.

That's the only difference between Legacy and non-Legacy players. I've seen plenty of non-Legacy players who are as pumped up about ARR as Legacy players, and I've seen plenty of Legacy players who are strongly criticizing the game as much as non-Legacy players.

It's just the small, non-Legacy fringe that is making a lot of noise about this... most people couldn't care less.
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#37 May 08 2013 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
I hardly see any benefits on being legacy


Well, to me, the real benefit is the savings on my monthly fee... and it's such a small amount, it's really no big deal... but still, I'll take it.

And I'm not trying to say that non-Legacy players aren't important. What I'm saying is that SE clearly defined the conditions of the Legacy program to ALL players, and only certain players met the conditions to qualify for that Legacy program... so THOSE are the people who are entitled to receive the benefits.

Those who are not entitled to receive the benefits are, well, not really entitled... but a small number of them "feel" entitled.

With ARR in beta, non-Legacy players are on equal footing with Legacy players. Neither group is more important. It's just that several months ago, Legacy players went out of their way to meet certain terms and conditions to qualify for a program called the "Legacy" program.

That's the only difference between Legacy and non-Legacy players. I've seen plenty of non-Legacy players who are as pumped up about ARR as Legacy players, and I've seen plenty of Legacy players who are strongly criticizing the game as much as non-Legacy players.

It's just the small, non-Legacy fringe that is making a lot of noise about this... most people couldn't care less.


Being Legacy, I really hope SE offers another deal to get the 9.99$ monthly fee to new players. It's a great perk, but I think it could attract even more players if the fee was lowered for everyone.
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#38 May 08 2013 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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The only way their fee will get down to 9.99, Is probably with a yearly payment discount (If they reinstate it again). Doesn't matter if you don't play, they'll get paid.
#39 May 08 2013 at 11:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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If the game stalls this time around, everyone'll get discounts :(
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#40 May 09 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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My issue with the complaints on Legacy is that SE announced it well ahead of time, long enough for someone who really wanted it and cared about it to sign up and qualify. I got emails over a year ago announcing the program, and that was one reason I signed up for the game a year ago in the first place!

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#41 May 09 2013 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Eh, the only thing that annoys me about this Legacy thing is that PS3 players never got in on the deal, considering the game has yet to be released for the platform. Had it been out as they said it would, I would have signed up just to have Legacy status. The only sort of "compensation" we receive is priority for the beta selection IF we kept that code from the initial release of FFXIII.
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#42 May 09 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Good
Atkascha wrote:
Eh, the only thing that annoys me about this Legacy thing is that PS3 players never got in on the deal, considering the game has yet to be released for the platform. Had it been out as they said it would, I would have signed up just to have Legacy status. The only sort of "compensation" we receive is priority for the beta selection IF we kept that code from the initial release of FFXIII.


It's true. PS3 got straight up hosed throughout this entire ordeal. I won't play on PS3, but it is unfortunate for all those waiting for its released. I wonder how many subscribers have been lost simply due to the amount of time that has passed since those people were excited for the game. I built a computer primarily to be able to play this game, so I'm kind of locked in to at least try it. PS3 users... Not so much.
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#43 May 09 2013 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
Catwho wrote:
My issue with the complaints on Legacy is that SE announced it well ahead of time, long enough for someone who really wanted it and cared about it to sign up and qualify. I got emails over a year ago announcing the program, and that was one reason I signed up for the game a year ago in the first place!



Sucks too for the younger folk who couldn't afford it at the time, but 2-3 years later have a job and can afford it. The ps3 crowd is also who I feel for. Like I say, nice perk, but some people are gettitng hosed.
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#44 May 09 2013 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
My issue with the complaints on Legacy is that SE announced it well ahead of time, long enough for someone who really wanted it and cared about it to sign up and qualify. I got emails over a year ago announcing the program, and that was one reason I signed up for the game a year ago in the first place!



That's exactly how it all started. Smiley: nod Far too many threads claiming their missed opportunity made it OK for SE to extend the offer to them. Some of them had rather "compelling" stories too. It started off well, but I believe the last thread got insta-flamed. "STFU/Not this again," and various rude memes.

The PS3 users didn't spend money or time on FFXIV (Lucky? Unlucky?). So while a part of me wants to say, "yea poor them," I can't (Trying to de program victim culture mindset). I wonder if any PS3 users bought a copy for a cheap price, registered and paid a sub for 90 days? Not like they were required to play. Many PC users did that.

Can't completely fault people for not having an interest in a ****** game. Which is why it was a perk to reward those who were willing and interested enough to dish out the 90 day sub. You also can't blame people for not wanting to waste their money on a 90 sub on faith alone. In the end, I think that's what happened *my opinion*. I wonder how many knew, but just wasn't interested till it was too late?
#45 May 09 2013 at 11:20 PM Rating: Decent
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The real problem that has arisen, is that there are essentially 2 sub prices, one for the fools (Myself included) that gave SE money in return for their failure, and one for the ones that had the actual sense of saying "**** no SE! I am out until you deliver the goods" at best SE should offer the legacy payment offer, in a yearly subscription, if you buy a year subscription within the first month of FFXIV, you get the reduced fee forever, that way they appease both camps, since not everybody will pay a years worth of subs, it will still remain "Unique" and every body got a real chance at it.
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#46 May 10 2013 at 12:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I bought 10, 000 crysta AND didnt hit legacy status. So not only did SE get a year's worth of cash as an interest free loan from me fir 2 years, I didnt take up any resources AND I have a normal pay rate....
...im in a class all by myself lol...
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#47 May 10 2013 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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How is that possible? If you didn't use it, it's still going to be available for you come 2.0. I know I still have a little over 8000 left as well. Also, did you buy it from them directly? I did mine through Ultimate game card lol. No more CC #s for SE, after my FFXI character debacle!

Edited, May 10th 2013 4:44pm by GDLYL
#48 May 10 2013 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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I got cocky and threw it down during the free launch month. Then billing never happened. Played the whole free period. Then I didnt activate the crysta when the fees started.

But yeah I guess I get a year of no sub fees. Sortof.
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#49 May 10 2013 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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Well, Your 2.0's sub is paid for! Smiley: grin

Edit: Wtf typo

Edited, May 11th 2013 12:37am by GDLYL
#50 May 11 2013 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
The real problem that has arisen, is that there are essentially 2 sub prices, one for the fools (Myself included) that gave SE money in return for their failure, and one for the ones that had the actual sense of saying "**** no SE! I am out until you deliver the goods" at best SE should offer the legacy payment offer, in a yearly subscription, if you buy a year subscription within the first month of FFXIV, you get the reduced fee forever, that way they appease both camps, since not everybody will pay a years worth of subs, it will still remain "Unique" and every body got a real chance at it.


See, I have no problem with SE offering discounts for long term subscriptions. Even ZAM does that.
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#51 May 11 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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It is still a calculated move by them. The legacy player still has to play for at least a year to come out ahead. Those who paid till the end need to play longer the mean play time of a mmo players' tenure in a given game.

If legacy members are still around in 5 years...or this game is....square will not need the extra juice from them. If not, their sub fees would not have saved the game.

They were very smart and they can always say the price is no longer offered like the xi discount.

Edited, May 11th 2013 1:16pm by benjjjamin
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