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Elemental Weaknesses in Beta Yes/No?Follow

#1 May 09 2013 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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I recall hearing some talk about SE removing elemental weaknesses from mobs in 2.0 (or it was like that in 1.0?) and I was wondering what the case was for CON in phases 1 and 2. I don't see any reason as to why they would do this other than PvP overbalancing. If this turns out to be the case it would seem kind of odd to do in this game, with all of the fan service and series throwbacks abound. Maybe I misunderstood or the person was misinformed, but it would be nice to know what's what. It would seem pretty pointless to have 6 different elemental spells that all did the same amount of damage regardless of what mob they were cast on.
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#2 May 09 2013 at 3:56 AM Rating: Good
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Afaik beta players can't talk about it since NDA is still in place.
#3 May 09 2013 at 4:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Without breaking the NDA: Im pretty sure that its stated in a live letter or interview that they indeed did remove it, I think its because certain classes only have 1 or 2 elements to use for many lvls to come. Personally I think its a rather lame excuse, considering the fact that you could just team up with someone who can deal with X element etc. Not only that, but it feels less FF if you can kill bombs with fire or thunder elementals with thunder >_> But I guess that they are dumping the game down so people from the game we do not speak of, can catch up easily :P

Edited, May 9th 2013 6:14am by abesut
#4 May 09 2013 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
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I understand its been stated in a letter but this has to only be taking effect at lower lvls... There has always been weaknesses to elements in every FF... /DISAPPOINTED
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#5 May 09 2013 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
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Meh, NDA and I don't like it one bit!
#6 May 09 2013 at 11:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not a big fan of elemental systems. They get old pretty quickly and they're a really lazy way to promote "strategy." They can be done well, but often times they're just thrown in without much thought.
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#7 May 09 2013 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I'm not a big fan of elemental systems. They get old pretty quickly and they're a really lazy way to promote "strategy." They can be done well, but often times they're just thrown in without much thought.


I don't think it's a lazy way to promote strategy at all, I think it's a great way to do it, because you can tie the elemental properties into the storyline, the gear, job abilities, mobs, etc. In fact, I think it's actually quite a deep and interesting way to create challenges other than the typical "don't stand in the fire!" type of stuff. It definitely made FFXI more interesting. They've been done pretty well in every FF up to this one and I'll be a little bummed if it turns out there are no elemental weaknesses; that's one of the staples of FF games.
#8 May 09 2013 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I'm not a big fan of elemental systems. They get old pretty quickly and they're a really lazy way to promote "strategy." They can be done well, but often times they're just thrown in without much thought.


The main issue with not having one here is that they're a staple of Final Fantasy games. Ever since the first one, there have been elemental strengths and weaknesses, and for the most part they've been consistent across games in the series.

Actually I'm pretty sure the only Final Fantasy to mix it up was XI when they added a bunch of extra elements.

XIV not having an elemental system is strikingly odd for a Final Fantasy game.
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#9 May 09 2013 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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I think it's lazy when all it results in is a little additional damage, especially when that additional damage isn't really a game changer in any sense. If I were to make an elemental system, it'd be where if you use the stronger element you'd be rewarded in some way, whether it be additional attacks (Let's say the next autoattack is 100% Double Attack), or restoration of mana, stamina, or whatever energy, or make it significantly affect the monster in question by stunning it or locking certain abilities or whatever. There's a world of things you could do with it.
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#10 May 09 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Agree, I certainly hope elemental weakness and strength will be present in ARR.
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#11 May 09 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Good
What gaxe said. It's irritating when you go to fight a quest mob and all the NPCs hint at an elemental weakness so you prepare...and when you get there and unleash your trump card all it does is **** the mob off.
#12 May 09 2013 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
I think it's lazy when all it results in is a little additional damage, especially when that additional damage isn't really a game changer in any sense. If I were to make an elemental system, it'd be where if you use the stronger element you'd be rewarded in some way, whether it be additional attacks (Let's say the next autoattack is 100% Double Attack), or restoration of mana, stamina, or whatever energy, or make it significantly affect the monster in question by stunning it or locking certain abilities or whatever. There's a world of things you could do with it.


That's what I was referring to. Generally these rock-scissors-paper mechanics either make it a game of unbalanced matchups (where it becomes a game of not what you do, but which do you use), or they're made so weak as to be ineffectual. When they integrate those "elemental" constructs with other core strategy elements like space, time, and interrelatedeness, they can work well.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#13 May 09 2013 at 5:57 PM Rating: Good
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Well hopefully they implement some sort of point to having six different elements. With the whole Global Cooldown thing, it seems like you can cast the same spell over and over again, making it pointless to even cycle through elements. Even having secondary effects such as burn or rasp would be something, although not much.If all the spells end up being the same or for some reason one element is stronger than the rest (I'm looking at you Thunder >.>) they could just stop lying to themselves and everyone else and remove 5 of them and rename the last one "Generic MP Bolt Thingy".
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#14 May 09 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Honestly I wasn't going to go there, but the lack of meaningful "statuses" along with the apparent move to reduce things like movement and positional relationships is really looking at making this game a very one-dimensional experience. When all of your status effects are effectively "can't move," and "changes to HP or stats" you're already on the edge of a novelty wasteland, at which point some standard rock-paper-scissors mechanics are probably not going to add much.

And if you're having a hard time thinking of what they could possibly do that doesn't fall into those categories, it's because it's difficult to take things away from the player when you don't give them much to do in the first place.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#15 May 11 2013 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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DamienSScott wrote:
Well hopefully they implement some sort of point to having six different elements. With the whole Global Cooldown thing, it seems like you can cast the same spell over and over again, making it pointless to even cycle through elements. Even having secondary effects such as burn or rasp would be something, although not much.If all the spells end up being the same or for some reason one element is stronger than the rest (I'm looking at you Thunder >.>) they could just stop lying to themselves and everyone else and remove 5 of them and rename the last one "Generic MP Bolt Thingy".


We saw from one of the alpha or beta videos that the Aero spell from CNJ also casts a DoT effect on the monster. It's safe to assume that each element has its own unique thing in that respect.
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#16 May 11 2013 at 3:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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There's not much point in having different types of attacks if they are all equally effective against everything. X is effective against Y but not Z is pretty much the bread-and-butter of RPGs... and rock-paper-scissors.
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