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#1 May 10 2013 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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A little OT FFXIV wise but.. Just wondered what my friends here at ZAM thought. http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/world-warcraft-loses-1-3-million-players-three-233637952.html

PS. Just found this.. not sure if it has already been posted or not.. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61825

Edited, May 10th 2013 8:46am by AlexandEric

Edited, May 15th 2013 3:42pm by Wint Lock Thread: Jesus Christ guys
#2 May 10 2013 at 7:49 AM Rating: Good
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Meh.. a 9-year old game is losing subscribers. It's be weird if it weren't, really.
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#3 May 10 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Reminds me of this thread on the official forums: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61771-FFXIV-Bahamut-vs.-WoW-Deathwing-Who-Wins

Not much of a surprise that they're losing subscribers. To lose so many in three months, though, something must be up. Some of them may be willing to give ARR a shot.
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#4 May 10 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Default
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I sure hope those millions make there way to ARR would be of epicness in my eyes being a complete hater of WoW and all that it is....

Edited, May 10th 2013 10:45am by Mmoderator
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#5 May 10 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Good
WoW is defintiely not hurting for content. Unless the bulk of those people left because they've out-raided the game, my guess is they are largely (not completely) comprised of people unsatisfied with the P2P model or the style of progression. I doubt those people will make their way to ARR.
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#6 May 10 2013 at 10:47 AM Rating: Decent
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I like to think that people are outgrowing these kinds of formulaic, zero thought necessary kind of theme park MMOs, but that's probably being overly optimistic.
#7 May 10 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Blizzard said that most of that loss is from the eastern markets, which tend to have a more fickle relationship with MMOs by default.

I'm sure there are more than a few people that have been playing it for a really long time and are just burned out on WoW, especially with so many other good options opening up lately.

Nothing lasts forever. WoW will stabilize around a dedicated subscriber base. 8 million people is still nothing to scoff at, and the game is plenty profitable for them still.

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I sure hope those millions make there way to ARR would be of epicness in my eyes being a complete hater of WoW and all that it is....


Did WoW kill your father and burn your village down or something? Irrational hatred of something is not usually a good thing to be carrying around.
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#8 May 10 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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There's a bunch of threads on WoW official regarding this. The consensus seems to be centered around the way they designed the gear grind this xpac. Most folks are frustrated by gear so heavily gated behind dailies. Others are disappointed that there are no new dungeons coming and instead Bliz is trying to replace them with these so-called 3 man scenarios.

Overall, there's a lot of content to do but the way they have it structured needs some tweaking. I don't think they will ever see the height of Wrath with the direction they are taking. Plus there are many other games out there right now that are very fun. So, it ebbs and flows and I'm not calling doomsday for WoW anytime soon - but there's definitely reasons beyond it just being a fickle part of the market.
#9 May 10 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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No i played XI for right at 8 years then left for the military... where i picked up WoW to see if it would be worth playing... i started it out hating it but continued to push forward and see what happened... absolutly got worse and worse with dailies and immature people and then the raiding sucked and was so repetative i felt like there was nothing in the game that was a challenge at all... so i went to PvP which i enjoyed a lil more but still wasnt challenging enough compared to XI so i put the POS down and moved on and still dont understand to this day why in the world that people still play it... just blows my mind... peeps will think that i didnt get down to the EG part of it but as slow of a pace as XI is compared to WoW i probably almosty mastered that game in less than a year with whatever expansion was out at the time... now every person i encounter that has played WoW hates everything about it saying that Blizzard ruined it... i just laugh at them and go about my way thinking i knew this years ago... it will never compare to XI in my eyes no matter what the fanbase of it is or how many subscribers there are or how long its been running... its trash! always has been always will be...

Edited, May 10th 2013 11:59am by Mmoderator
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#10 May 10 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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#11 May 10 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Good
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Mmoderator wrote:
No i played XI for right at 8 years then left for the military... where i picked up WoW to see if it would be worth playing... i started it out hating it but continued to push forward and see what happened... absolutly got worse and worse with dailies and immature people and then the raiding sucked and was so repetative i felt like there was nothing in the game that was a challenge at all... so i went to PvP which i enjoyed a lil more but still wasnt challenging enough compared to XI so i put the POS down and moved on and still dont understand to this day why in the world that people still play it... just blows my mind... peeps will think that i didnt get down to the EG part of it but as slow of a pace as XI is compared to WoW i probably almosty mastered that game in less than a year with whatever expansion was out at the time... now every person i encounter that has played WoW hates everything about it saying that Blizzard ruined it... i just laugh at them and go about my way thinking i knew this years ago... it will never compare to XI in my eyes no matter what the fanbase of it is or how many subscribers there are or how long its been running... its trash! always has been always will be...

Edited, May 10th 2013 11:59am by Mmoderator


I'm not a huge WoW fan or anything, but this mentality is pretty close-minded. I played WoW for a year, and while I agree there were a lot more immature people playing it than FFXI, I think a big part of that would be comparing the 9 million subs of WoW to the >1 mil. of FFXI. Aside from that, WoW had some pretty awesome innovation. Dungeon Finder was a very cool idea and at the time it was released, it was cutting edge. Flying mounts were fun. The Art direction of the game, while not uber realistic or even super high quality, was actually quite masterfully designed. Most zones looked really cool and had lots of areas where you could really see the fantasy elements coming to life. The gameplay was pretty fun too, and the fast paced battles were a nice change of pace from FFXI.

Overall, I too feel that FFXI was a superior game, at least for myself. But I don't think WoW was trash like you seem to think. It had its flaws like every other game, but it also excelled in many areas and paved the way for MOST modern mmos. Love it or hate it, it certainly has had a big influence on FFXIV... so does that mean you will hate FFXIV because it incorporates some things similar to WoW? I mean, you yourself said that you think it's trash...
#12 May 10 2013 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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I didnt find that the areas of WoW were particularly engaging. There was a big disconnected feeling about each zone, i simply did not feel immersed into the environments. Had it not been for the fact that i grew up playing warcraft the rts games, then the zones to me were nothing else but new grinding areas. Once you were done grinding, there wasnt any real reason to return to these zones or towns unless you were just passing through. in ffxi, they were able to recycle zones quite well depending which mob you were exp'ing off of, the crafting material you needed, or the nm that you wanted to hunt.
#13 May 10 2013 at 12:24 PM Rating: Default
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No i dont think that XIV will be trash from taking certain things from WoW or even having a WoW feel to it... i never said there that there wasnt anything i liked about WoW... yes the dungeon finder was an amazing tool and cutting edge im glad they plan to put it into effect in XIV i liked the swimming effects i liked the flying mounts... there are certainly things that it had benificial to it but as a whole i think WoW is just overall nothing to exciting at all and i care not to ever play a second of it again... i could care less for its story but that could be because i never played any of the RTS and know background story... which overall could be why i enjoy FF much more because i can follow it no matter what because there hasnt been one i dont own or have played to this day... i could very well not like the feel of XIV but i cant speculate that untill ive had my hands on it... however im sure it wont be anything like WoW as a whole so i wont have to many issues...
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#14 May 10 2013 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
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Well, I can sum up the backstory of Warcraft for you.

The Alliance and the Horde are in a fight because reasons.

There. That's pretty much all the backstory you needed to start playing World of Warcraft. Everything else unfolds through the questlines.

#15 May 10 2013 at 2:16 PM Rating: Default
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TY captain obvious... much appreciated!
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#16 May 10 2013 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Mmoderator wrote:
No i dont think that XIV will be trash from taking certain things from WoW or even having a WoW feel to it... i never said there that there wasnt anything i liked about WoW...


Well ok then, that's all I was getting at. Saying a game is trash tends to make me think there wasn't anything redeeming about it, so knowing that FFXIV will have some WoW-like elements one would assume you would dislike that. So perhaps the game isn't trash, it's just not for you?
#17 May 10 2013 at 4:03 PM Rating: Default
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Torrence wrote:
Well, I can sum up the backstory of Warcraft for you.

The Alliance and the Horde are in a fight because reasons.

There. That's pretty much all the backstory you needed to start playing World of Warcraft. Everything else unfolds through the questlines.



And then i am the troll ? That is not even close to being the backstory of wow lol
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#18 May 10 2013 at 4:04 PM Rating: Default
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Also guys, this same link pops up every single expansion, after a few months: "World of Warcraft Loses X players..." And 9-10 years later here we are still lol Also how is it relevant to XIV ?
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#19 May 10 2013 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Also how is it relevant to XIV ?


WoW is the flagship of subscription-based MMOs. If it's buckling under the weight of F2P MMOs which are stealing its players away, as Activision itself thinks so, it could spell trouble for FFXIV which is reliant on a subscription model itself.

So, it's absolutely relevant to FFXIV.
#20 May 10 2013 at 10:26 PM Rating: Default
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Xoie wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Also how is it relevant to XIV ?


WoW is the flagship of subscription-based MMOs. If it's buckling under the weight of F2P MMOs which are stealing its players away, as Activision itself thinks so, it could spell trouble for FFXIV which is reliant on a subscription model itself.

So, it's absolutely relevant to FFXIV.


Lmao! That is a huge assumption kid, this is nothing new, it happened before BC, it happened before Wrath, it happened before Cata, it happened before pandaria and it will continue to happen, there has always been a large % of the population that once it reaches a certain point in the current expansion, they get tired/bored and unsub, until the next major patch or expansion. Even when rift claimed it stole 2 million wow subs(Or whatever the number was) they all returned, this has always happened, it happened with swotor, and with Gw2, wow is a decade old game, people are gonna look for something new, see is nothing really new, and go back to what they are more familiar with, just like FFXI crowd is.
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#21 May 11 2013 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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WoW is the flagship of subscription-based MMOs. If it's buckling under the weight of F2P MMOs which are stealing its players away, as Activision itself thinks so, it could spell trouble for FFXIV which is reliant on a subscription model itself.


FFXI isn't buckling under the weight of F2P games... so we'll just have to wait and see with FFXIV.
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#22 May 11 2013 at 1:08 AM Rating: Good
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
WoW is the flagship of subscription-based MMOs. If it's buckling under the weight of F2P MMOs which are stealing its players away, as Activision itself thinks so, it could spell trouble for FFXIV which is reliant on a subscription model itself.


FFXI isn't buckling under the weight of F2P games... so we'll just have to wait and see with FFXIV.


FFXI is also paid for 10 times over and is still highly profitable for the amount of work that goes into the game. FFXIV, I don't even want to know how many subs they need to make up the amount of cash they've spent on the game. FFXI could probably drop to 50,000 people and still be good to go with a P2P model.

I really doubt Blizzard will make WoW go F2P unless they think they can make even more money then they're already making. If they figure they can keep all these active subs on top of attracting new players spending stuff at a cash shop, then why not I suppose.

Edited, May 11th 2013 3:10am by Montsegurnephcreep
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#23 May 11 2013 at 1:11 AM Rating: Default
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Thayos wrote:
Quote:
WoW is the flagship of subscription-based MMOs. If it's buckling under the weight of F2P MMOs which are stealing its players away, as Activision itself thinks so, it could spell trouble for FFXIV which is reliant on a subscription model itself.


FFXI isn't buckling under the weight of F2P games... so we'll just have to wait and see with FFXIV.


So let me get this right... XI an already paid for game that only brings profits is not buckling under the weight of F2P games.

But World of Warcraft a game that has been paid over and over and over 100 times over is buckling under the weight of F2P games, with 8 Million Subscriptions.....

That Math! That Logic!
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#24 May 11 2013 at 5:53 AM Rating: Decent
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You guys have to also remember that in today's market MMO's also face stiff competition from many non mmo sources. Mobile phone/tablet gaming, Facebook, and console multiplayer are huge now. None of this really was around back in '04
#25 May 11 2013 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
WoW is the flagship of subscription-based MMOs. If it's buckling under the weight of F2P MMOs which are stealing its players away, as Activision itself thinks so, it could spell trouble for FFXIV which is reliant on a subscription model itself.


FFXI isn't buckling under the weight of F2P games... so we'll just have to wait and see with FFXIV.


So let me get this right... XI an already paid for game that only brings profits is not buckling under the weight of F2P games.

But World of Warcraft a game that has been paid over and over and over 100 times over is buckling under the weight of F2P games, with 8 Million Subscriptions.....

That Math! That Logic!


Do you even realize that you are quoting two entirely different people, making two distinctly different points? You don't always have to be such a belligerent *** to everyone.
#26 May 11 2013 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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I wouldn't say WoW is buckling under the weight of other games. At best, it's sagging just a little bit.

I don't think the WoW folks are going to panic too much until the subs fall below one million.
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#27Ostia, Posted: May 11 2013 at 12:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Do you even realize you come off as a stalker ? Every thread i post, you seem to have this knack of jumping in mid argument with somebody and make some statement about something you know nothing off....
#28 May 11 2013 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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i said that WOW has a core player base that just like FFXI player base, will sub and unsub to try the new expansion, they are not playing 24/7 365 days a year, but they will sub a month or 2 a year to see what's new...


Says the guy who obviously hasn't been playing FFXI over the past few years, lol.
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#29 May 11 2013 at 8:20 PM Rating: Good
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Osita wrote:
Do you even realize you come off as a stalker ?


I'm not the one who just wrote a half page manifesto based on a 1-line comment. I'm flattered that you think I care enough to stalk you. I don't, but still, I'm touched.

Edited, May 11th 2013 10:38pm by BartelX
#30 May 11 2013 at 8:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia is going to take a break for a few days and see if he can be civil to everyone.
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#31 May 12 2013 at 12:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Ostia is going to take a break for a few days and see if he can be civil to everyone.


I would be surprised if he will.
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#32 May 12 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Ostia is going to take a break for a few days and see if he can be civil to everyone.


Honestly I don't think people are being much more civil to him (others like him) than he is to others a lot of the time. The biggest difference is most other people agree with each others points so they don't mind it when people call him an ***.

Edited, May 12th 2013 11:01am by Belcrono
#33 May 12 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Excellent
Ostia isn't just disagreeing though... He is trolling, and irrationally. Disagreement is fine, but you've got to keep it real. You can't post with the intent of only getting under other people's skin.
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#34 May 12 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Back on topic.

As I mentioned elsewhere, while WoW can easily shurg off 1.3 million due to its age, that number could easily sustain FFXIV. WoW isn't bleeding that number because the game is suddenly bad, but because it is old and aged. Lots of people argue against 'WoW' clones, but games that run similar standard mechanics while keeping some things, like lore and specific combat quirks, unique, could easily make a good gradual profit form the slight differentials.

ARR is making smart decisions from what I've seen of the interviews and press releases. So long as they keep it distinctly 'Final Fantasy' I honestly won't mind if it feels more like the standard MMO fare.

I looked at that article and felt "Wow, 1.3 million fresh subscriptions just entered the market to bid for." Not "Oh my god this is the end of P2P". If people want it enough, they'll pay for it.
#35 May 12 2013 at 9:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Belcrono wrote:
Wint wrote:
Ostia is going to take a break for a few days and see if he can be civil to everyone.


Honestly I don't think people are being much more civil to him (others like him) than he is to others a lot of the time. The biggest difference is most other people agree with each others points so they don't mind it when people call him an ***.

Edited, May 12th 2013 11:01am by Belcrono



Ostia wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Ostia, quit acting like a belligerent ***. Seriously. You're better than that.


But i was bored :( The Legue Q for ranks where horrible last night.... And they rage so easily Smiley: lol



Thats a quote from another thread. It seems as he himself said likes to troll us so please excuse me if i don't like it and don't believe its the same with the rest.
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#36 May 12 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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I don't want to make this thread go somewhere it shouldn't so I won't say anything about it after this. I am not saying he never trolls, but I also think it has reached a point where people on these forums expect him to troll to the point where anything he says is interpreted in a certain way. I see things where most people wouldn't mind it if someone else said what he did, but just because it is him he gets a negative response/reaction. I guess one could argue he put himself in that position which might be true, but imo I still think people can be better.

Anyway, I wasn't saying he didn't deserve a suspension that is not for me to say, but I wanted to get that out there either way. Sorry for the thread-interruption.
#37 May 12 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Belcrono wrote:
I don't want to make this thread go somewhere it shouldn't so I won't say anything about it after this. I am not saying he never trolls, but I also think it has reached a point where people on these forums expect him to troll to the point where anything he says is interpreted in a certain way. I see things where most people wouldn't mind it if someone else said what he did, but just because it is him he gets a negative response/reaction. I guess one could argue he put himself in that position which might be true, but imo I still think people can be better.

Anyway, I wasn't saying he didn't deserve a suspension that is not for me to say, but I wanted to get that out there either way. Sorry for the thread-interruption.


It's a good point, and so I think I'll just expand on this and encourage civility as much as possible (for an internet forum) from everyone. This includes conversations with Killua, Ostia, and those others who may not agree with the current forum majority. Mrmoderator you need to chill out too.

I like our forums, I think we have more intelligent conversations than some others, and I like not having to step on necks if I can help it Smiley: thumbsup
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#38 May 12 2013 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Belcrono wrote:
I don't want to make this thread go somewhere it shouldn't so I won't say anything about it after this. I am not saying he never trolls, but I also think it has reached a point where people on these forums expect him to troll to the point where anything he says is interpreted in a certain way. I see things where most people wouldn't mind it if someone else said what he did, but just because it is him he gets a negative response/reaction. I guess one could argue he put himself in that position which might be true, but imo I still think people can be better.

Anyway, I wasn't saying he didn't deserve a suspension that is not for me to say, but I wanted to get that out there either way. Sorry for the thread-interruption.


It's a good point, and so I think I'll just expand on this and encourage civility as much as possible (for an internet forum) from everyone. This includes conversations with Killua, Ostia, and those others who may not agree with the current forum majority. Mrmoderator you need to chill out too.

I like our forums, I think we have more intelligent conversations than some others, and I like not having to step on necks if I can help it Smiley: thumbsup


Good points. Also remember that not everyone knows how to properly articulate their thoughts at all times, myself included, so if there ever is a post that might strike one of us the wrong way, maybe a more adequate response would be to request clarification from the poster in question.
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#39 May 12 2013 at 10:17 PM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
I don't want to make this thread go somewhere it shouldn't so I won't say anything about it after this. I am not saying he never trolls, but I also think it has reached a point where people on these forums expect him to troll to the point where anything he says is interpreted in a certain way. I see things where most people wouldn't mind it if someone else said what he did, but just because it is him he gets a negative response/reaction. I guess one could argue he put himself in that position which might be true, but imo I still think people can be better.

Anyway, I wasn't saying he didn't deserve a suspension that is not for me to say, but I wanted to get that out there either way. Sorry for the thread-interruption.


Since most of the derogatory comments were actually sent my way, I will say that I personally don't care if he wants to go that route. I've been through enough in life to realize that the comments made on a forum don't really mean all that much in the grand scheme. However, I do think that it is just not needed on these forums, and certainly doesn't add anything. The vast majority of posters on here seem to keep a civil tone. For instance, Kachi tends to have a differing opinion than most, yet he is able to keep a civil and rational argument throughout his posts without throwing out demeaning insults and name-calling. Killua may give a dissenting opinion that is unpopular, but he is also very civil and under control in his posts. I respect that. I don't respect calling people noobs and idiots over a simple disagreement.

Edited, May 13th 2013 12:18am by BartelX
#40 May 15 2013 at 1:39 PM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Belcrono wrote:
I don't want to make this thread go somewhere it shouldn't so I won't say anything about it after this. I am not saying he never trolls, but I also think it has reached a point where people on these forums expect him to troll to the point where anything he says is interpreted in a certain way. I see things where most people wouldn't mind it if someone else said what he did, but just because it is him he gets a negative response/reaction. I guess one could argue he put himself in that position which might be true, but imo I still think people can be better.

Anyway, I wasn't saying he didn't deserve a suspension that is not for me to say, but I wanted to get that out there either way. Sorry for the thread-interruption.


Since most of the derogatory comments were actually sent my way, I will say that I personally don't care if he wants to go that route. I've been through enough in life to realize that the comments made on a forum don't really mean all that much in the grand scheme. However, I do think that it is just not needed on these forums, and certainly doesn't add anything. The vast majority of posters on here seem to keep a civil tone. For instance, Kachi tends to have a differing opinion than most, yet he is able to keep a civil and rational argument throughout his posts without throwing out demeaning insults and name-calling. Killua may give a dissenting opinion that is unpopular, but he is also very civil and under control in his posts. I respect that. I don't respect calling people noobs and idiots over a simple disagreement.

Edited, May 13th 2013 12:18am by BartelX


I called you an idiot.... You act like i went all out on you or you where killua or something who btw gets treated worse around this parts lol
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#41 May 15 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Probably a bad idea to continue the topic that got you muted in the first place. Just sayin'.
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#42 May 15 2013 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
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ahhh wint what must i chill out on? for i have no clue what ive done...
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#43 May 15 2013 at 2:20 PM Rating: Default
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AlexandEric wrote:
A little OT FFXIV wise but.. Just wondered what my friends here at ZAM thought. http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/world-warcraft-loses-1-3-million-players-three-233637952.html

PS. Just found this.. not sure if it has already been posted or not.. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61825

Edited, May 10th 2013 8:46am by AlexandEric



I think time will tell whether this speaks to the overall popularity of MMOs.

One must wonder in the world of constant connectivity, has the allure of playing a massively connected game lost it's appeal? I for one know that it was a feeling that will never be recaptured when I enjoyed my first "connected" experience. Largely due to the fact that I didn't grow up on facebook, and XBox Live... In fact to show the difference, the first console online experience I ever had was ChuChu Rocket... and that to me felt like I was living in the real "year 2000," the kind you only dreamed of in the 90s. Where technology bridged the gap between my small world and everyone else's

Now however, younger gamers take such connectivity for granted... as they should. It's part of their existence, in it's entirety I might add. So what is so special about an MMO to them?

Of course it could also simply be as was stated, that it's an old game. People want something new, and their tired of the 15th tier of end game armor. I suppose the next few years will show what the real reason is.
#44 May 15 2013 at 2:24 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
I sure hope those millions make there way to ARR would be of epicness in my eyes being a complete hater of WoW and all that it is....


Quote:
Did WoW kill your father and burn your village down or something? Irrational hatred of something is not usually a good thing to be carrying around.


Well, it could be said that WoW nearly has/had a monopoly on the sub based MMO market... it seems like a natural human reaction to hate monopolies. No one get's enraged when people hate Standard Oil... why should hatred for WoW be any different?

Edited, May 15th 2013 4:24pm by je355804

Edited, May 15th 2013 4:32pm by je355804
#45 May 15 2013 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Thayos wrote:
Ostia isn't just disagreeing though... He is trolling, and irrationally. Disagreement is fine, but you've got to keep it real. You can't post with the intent of only getting under other people's skin.



Hmmm, while I agree with points made by yourself, Bartel, and Ostia... I would say if that is considered trolling then there is clearly a very narrowly defined measure of what is acceptable. He made many good point... and besides a few harsh comments made in both directions, I would say the only thing he was guilty of was being on the opposite side of the majority.
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