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RIFT goes Free-To-Play...Follow

#27 May 14 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:


Torrence wrote:
people who were still playing Rift were willfully blind


It isn't a little possible that they enjoyed the game and wanted to continue playing it?


What does that have to do with refusing to see the writing on the wall? Rift has been bleeding subs since about 2 months before SL hit - maybe around the time they banned No Quarter. Fanbois drowning out legitimate complaints throughout Storm Legion is a large reason why things didn't get fixed and now they can't sustain the subscription model. So yes, those being willfully blind may enjoy the game as it is but they certainly didn't do their beloved game any favors.

Trion did exactly what Blizzard did with Cataclysm, but Trion didn't have nearly enough cushion to take the blow. They set the accessibility bar too high, and pushed out a large portion of the players who really enjoyed the game as it was. They completely redesigned classes from the ground up and FUBAR most of them. Things were literally broken and the players themselves had to do Trion's development work finding the bugs. It was a mess. F2P was no surprise. What was surprising, is that it's happening so soon after maybe 2 months ago Daglar or Elrar (can't remember which) was swearing up and down there were "no plans" for F2P.
#28 May 14 2013 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
In Battlefield 4, you can just pay EA to unlock everything for you. You encourage this, they extend the leveling process to the point that it's not even worth playing.

YAY F2P MODEL!


Keeping in mind that EA are the ones I mentioned above auctioning off UI elements in SWTOR... let's take a look at SWTOR's f2p model and have an example of what NOT to do.

Free players:
  • Sprint starting at level 15 instead of level 1
  • 1 crew skill slot (instead of 3)
  • No bank
  • Can hold a max of 200k credits (I had almost 2m when I quit)
  • Essentially no chat channels except "restricted" tells (whatever that means)
  • Can't send mail
  • No trading
  • 2 AH slots instead of 50
  • High respec costs
  • 2 character slots instead of 8
  • 3 races available
  • No raids
  • 5 pvp battlegrounds per week
  • No rated pvp
  • Rewards from 3 instances per week only
  • 3 space missions per week instead of infinite
  • Inventory can only be expanded with cash shop currency
  • Mounts at later levels (have fun trekking across Tatooine there)
  • Field respawns 5 times per CHARACTER
  • No top-level gear
  • Reduced commendations cap (endgame currency)
  • Can't be a GM of a non-free to play guild
  • Less XP (not just everyone else gets more, you get less)
  • No rested XP
  • Slower valor level gain (pvp levels)
  • 2 actionbars as opposed to 6
  • No equipping event rewards
  • No access to GMs


Basically, don't bother unless you're going to pay. That's how EA handles "free"
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#29 May 14 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Yea SWTOR is a really good example of a game not even worth trying right now. I'm surprised they stuck to their guns with the action bars thing - that was the biggest complaint of all players when it went F2P and they said they would "revisit" it. I guess they didn't.

EA is one of the worst companies in gaming - they ran ME3 into the ground and the doctors ended up leaving I think largely because of it. Shame.
#30 May 14 2013 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, I really enjoyed SWTOR for a while, but returned to FFXIV and never looked back... until I heard F2P and saw the abomination and started sprinting away like it was a herd of zombie unicorns.
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#31 May 14 2013 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Idiot. You don't sprint away from zombie unicorns. You have to pace yourself.
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Hyrist wrote:
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Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#32 May 14 2013 at 3:52 PM Rating: Good
The thing about free to play is that you can sub in 90% of the games essentially making it p2p. If a f2p game doesn't have a subscription model, then stay the **** away.
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#33 May 14 2013 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Idiot. You don't sprint away from zombie unicorns. You have to pace yourself.


Wint... give this man many rate ups. Best post in MONTHS!!!
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#34 May 14 2013 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
I still have my mind positively BOGGLED by the "I want F2P" mindset.

Why!? Money? Is it the money? If it is, I don't know what to tell you without being condescending.. If you are financially taxed by $14.99, you really should spend your free time bettering yourself, studying, job hunting, etc.

If you are not old enough to work, F2P is very appealing to you, yes. But then all these kids create a community like League of Legends, notoriously the worst, most hate-filled and vitriol community I have ever witnessed.

But other than that... If you are telling me you actually prefer a game mechanic where you enter your credit card info for every new quest section (LOTR), or double exp bonuses or drop rates (every other game), or real money to set up a shop or use that to buy and sell items (Diablo and others) then you are insane.


EDIT:

I should add, I am honestly asking, why do you want F2P (those that do) because I don't understand it.


Edited, May 14th 2013 12:24pm by Louiscool



In my case, it would get my friends to try it. Even the 1.0 crowd I know, only 3 of them are interested in ARR (out of 28).
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#35 May 14 2013 at 6:01 PM Rating: Default
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No matter how many times you guys call me a troll or down rate me, I don't think F2P FFXIV would be so bad if done right.

Everyone gets to play, it's free, cash shop outfits and chocobo dyes and cosmetic pets and skins and junk like that support the game and in exchange we get a larger playerbase and the company could definitely make more money resulting in more content.

I mean, TERA was on life support and now it's doing great. It just got a big content update today I believe, with some new 20-man activities. How? By selling stupid stuff like maid outfits. Who really cares? Why do you guys care? If it means more people and more profits.

I hope FFXIV starts as F2P.
#36 May 14 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't have any stats to back this up because I'm too lazy to look but I'm assuming that F2P games have a large "revolving door" of players.

I'd assume that people who play F2P games don't play them for very long. Because they'd go to other games, and new players would take their place.

I don't have that many doubts that F2P is the way to go if you want to make (more) money, but if you want to keep a solid/faithful player base then you don't go F2P.

It all goes back to the thread about success; if SE's goal is to make tons of money then F2P might be the way to go. And if it's run the way most F2P games are, then I won't be around for long.

But if SE's definition of success is to appeal to a core group and to meet a certain quota of subs, then they can work with appeasing that smaller player base and not get in over their head.

Not to mention personally I want everything available when I pay a sub, I haven't ever and never will buy anything from a F2P game; I just stop playing before it gets to that point.
#37 May 14 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Default
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I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...

If ARR is fun, I will play - F2P or P2P, and yes, you are wrong, many people play free games long term (many years).
#38 May 14 2013 at 6:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...

If ARR is fun, I will play - F2P or P2P, and yes, you are wrong, many people play free games long term (many years).



Do you have any numbers to prove that F2P games retain a core group of players longer than a subscription based model?
#39 May 14 2013 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...


Because you probably haven't Smiley: rolleyes

Do you at least see the point of people who want to pay a monthly fee and have access to EVERYTHING? Cash shop items, all of it? This is the crowd you're trying to sell F2P to here at least.
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#40 May 14 2013 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
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There's a very real perception of investment when you're paying a subscription that will tend to make people care about what they're doing a lot more than a f2p game can ever get.

While I'm sure there are people who will play a f2p game for years, that isn't where the smart money is in most cases, and a Final Fantasy MMO will require a dedicated base of players, not a revolving door.

Quote:
I hope FFXIV starts as F2P.


It won't. We know this with 100% certainty.
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#41 May 14 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
No matter how many times you guys call me a troll or down rate me, I don't think F2P FFXIV would be so bad if done right.

Everyone gets to play, it's free, cash shop outfits and chocobo dyes and cosmetic pets and skins and junk like that support the game and in exchange we get a larger playerbase and the company could definitely make more money resulting in more content.

I mean, TERA was on life support and now it's doing great. It just got a big content update today I believe, with some new 20-man activities. How? By selling stupid stuff like maid outfits. Who really cares? Why do you guys care? If it means more people and more profits.

I hope FFXIV starts as F2P.


Well, like in the case you described:

Quote:
cash shop outfits and chocobo dyes and cosmetic pets and skins and junk


You get people running around with glittery gold lions and super annoying emotes or world-wide shout ability, or people who level up twice your speed because you arent spending 5 bucks for 2 hours of 2X exp.

And if you say "well just make the skins etc lore-oriented liek the bathing suits, my response is:

I want the stupid holiday events, I want to go do some silly goldfish scooping contest for some fireworks. I don't want to sacrifice the event-ness of that so they can make some side cash.


So do the maid outfits replace the look of your gear? So i'll have 9 mithra is my party in maid outfits while we fight the garlean empire? I believe it was YOU, not a few hundred topics ago whining about "I don't want X because it will break immersion."

Stupid maid outfits are not immersive, they are exploitative of the community, and make the game really hokey. I would quit playing a game that did that.

Quote:
I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...

If ARR is fun, I will play - F2P or P2P, and yes, you are wrong, many people play free games long term (many years).


1) FFXI and XIV are very different from most mmos based on the "1 Character - All Classes" principle. In this respect, knowing other players, recognizing them, having good or bad experiences, goes a LONG way to enhancing your enjoyment. It's the reason I re-subbed to FFXI last week, and the reason many others continue to pay monthly even if they don't play it often.

Other games, you have MANY characters and one player already has a revolving door of characters. so it's not as noticeable.


2) Have you have just been given a handful of free games? Have you ever known anyone who downloaded every game on say XBOX for free? These people are the most unhappy gamers I've ever met. My friend has this problem. He owns every game, plays hardly any of them because hes overwhelmed and doesn't appreciate sh*t.

"Did you play Portal 2?"
"Yeah liek an hour of it."
"WHAT!? Why only an hour!?"
"I don't know, I have too many games."

This is the F2P player mindset. I buy my games, so every single one is a precious snowflake that needs to be fully completed.

Edited, May 14th 2013 9:18pm by Louiscool
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#42 May 14 2013 at 7:10 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...


Because you probably haven't Smiley: rolleyes

Do you at least see the point of people who want to pay a monthly fee and have access to EVERYTHING? Cash shop items, all of it? This is the crowd you're trying to sell F2P to here at least.


I see the point but I also see how profitable microtransactions are (cash shops, downloadable content, digital content in general), so I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of those people's satisfaction (who are going to stay anyway if they LIKE the game, not because of what the payment model is) if it means more people can try the game out, and the company can make more money for more content.
#43 May 14 2013 at 7:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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So you think whoring themselves out for a quick buck is better than a dedicated fan base? Ok...
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#44 May 14 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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LebargeX wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Idiot. You don't sprint away from zombie unicorns. You have to pace yourself.


Wint... give this man many rate ups. Best post in MONTHS!!!


Fools! The rateups will mean nothing when the zombie unicorns are upon us!
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#45 May 14 2013 at 7:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Microtransactions are extremely profitable, sure. I played Mass Effect 3's multiplayer for over a year, listening to the crap on the forums about the decked-out players who *clearly* bought all of their gear with real money. It created a rift in the community that I hated. I do not want to experience anything like that again. The only threat to anything like that is by way of RMT, but hey, most people keep that on the down-low and you just don't ask about that kind of thing. I don't want to have my progress trivialized by someone /checking me and rolling their eyes, going, "oh, you probably paid for all of your stuff." That's the main reason why I don't want F2P and why I will not play FFXIV if it ever goes F2P.
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#46 May 14 2013 at 7:33 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is what I think of when I hear about Rift (Epileptics beware)

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#47 May 14 2013 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
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I think going free to play cheapens the game and I hope to god that never happens :( The only ftp game I got into was Pandora Saga . It is a very FFXI like game and enjoyed it quite a bit without even having to buy anything.

Edited, May 14th 2013 6:57pm by Veagan
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#48 May 14 2013 at 8:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
Wint wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
I don't see why whether or not I'm paying a monthly fee decides how much fun I'm having...


Because you probably haven't Smiley: rolleyes

Do you at least see the point of people who want to pay a monthly fee and have access to EVERYTHING? Cash shop items, all of it? This is the crowd you're trying to sell F2P to here at least.


I see the point but I also see how profitable microtransactions are (cash shops, downloadable content, digital content in general), so I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of those people's satisfaction (who are going to stay anyway if they LIKE the game, not because of what the payment model is) if it means more people can try the game out, and the company can make more money for more content.


I want a game that I can pay one fee monthly for and have access to everything. I think the vast majority of players interested in ARR feel the same, as we came from games like FFXI where that's how it went. Everyone was on equal footing. No ridiculous costumes that people had to buy. No double XP perks that you had to buy. You just pay your fee and you get everything. That's what I want, and I think that's what most people who will play ARR want.

Edited, May 14th 2013 11:23pm by BartelX
#49 May 14 2013 at 9:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Idiot. You don't sprint away from zombie unicorns. You have to pace yourself.


Wint... give this man many rate ups. Best post in MONTHS!!!


Fools! The rateups will mean nothing when the zombie unicorns are upon us!


Smiley: lolSmiley: nodSmiley: laugh
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#50 May 14 2013 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
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I keep playing that video Wint posted over and over.... Something about the sound that plays when "yea!" pops up gets me.
#51 May 14 2013 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Catwho wrote:
No. I don't want ARR to start as F2P. I don't want it to end up as F2P.

RIFT is clearly switching because they think they can make more money that way. That's their prerogative.



imho no P2P mmo goes F2P because "they think they can make more money that way" to me a P2P mmo that goes F2P is because "no one wasnt to pay for this, thus its not making any (of very little) money at all, so lets m,ake it free so that we can up the user base then get em with micro transactions"


In otherwodrds if FFXIV gets something lie 100k players.. I can assure you it WILL go free (or die) theyre not gonan keep it up just for us die hard fans that DO wanna pay for it
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