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RIFT goes Free-To-Play...Follow

#52 May 14 2013 at 11:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Others have already said it.... but I never want to be playing a game where I can't pay a monthly subscription to have access to EVERYTHING made for the game.

I don't even want cosmetic skins to be in a cash shop... because then the development team has to limit the number of cool-looking items in the game in order to push people toward the shop. This is the case in Guild Wars 2, and it's utterly maddening. I don't want to buy a flaming sword from the cash shop... I want to rip it from the hands of a boss, or find it inside a chest in a dungeon.

And no, I don't want to buy the key to that dungeon chest from a cash shop, either.

When you have a cash shop, the quality of the game suffers, period. There are better and worse ways to implement a cash shop, but it simply cannot be done, at all, without causing a detriment to the rest of the game.

I am very happy that SE has been very adamant about ARR being P2P. I want nothing more than a dev team that is focused on content, and not how to best monetize a cash shop. I want content introduced into the game because it's epic and compelling, and not because certain elements of the content could be monetized in the cash shop.

I've never seen anyone who favors F2P explain why, as a gamer, he or she thinks that would be beneficial. The argument is usually whether the gaming company (SE) will make more or less money. But as gamers, we should never wish for F2P to happen! Other than saving $12-$14/month, there are no benefits that F2P games can offer gamers.
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#53 May 15 2013 at 6:40 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
Others have already said it.... but I never want to be playing a game where I can't pay a monthly subscription to have access to EVERYTHING made for the game.

I don't even want cosmetic skins to be in a cash shop... because then the development team has to limit the number of cool-looking items in the game in order to push people toward the shop. This is the case in Guild Wars 2, and it's utterly maddening. I don't want to buy a flaming sword from the cash shop... I want to rip it from the hands of a boss, or find it inside a chest in a dungeon.

And no, I don't want to buy the key to that dungeon chest from a cash shop, either.

When you have a cash shop, the quality of the game suffers, period. There are better and worse ways to implement a cash shop, but it simply cannot be done, at all, without causing a detriment to the rest of the game.

I am very happy that SE has been very adamant about ARR being P2P. I want nothing more than a dev team that is focused on content, and not how to best monetize a cash shop. I want content introduced into the game because it's epic and compelling, and not because certain elements of the content could be monetized in the cash shop.

I've never seen anyone who favors F2P explain why, as a gamer, he or she thinks that would be beneficial. The argument is usually whether the gaming company (SE) will make more or less money. But as gamers, we should never wish for F2P to happen! Other than saving $12-$14/month, there are no benefits that F2P games can offer gamers.


Smiley: clapSmiley: clapSmiley: clapSmiley: clap
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#54 May 15 2013 at 7:04 AM Rating: Default
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"I've never seen anyone who favors F2P explain why, as a gamer, he or she thinks that would be beneficial. The argument is usually whether the gaming company (SE) will make more or less money. But as gamers, we should never wish for F2P to happen! Other than saving $12-$14/month, there are no benefits that F2P games can offer gamers."

I see peopel argue that all th etime, their answer is usually "because its stupid/I dont wanna pay monthly fee to play a game I already bought/own. What sense doese it make to pay 30-60 bucks for a game and then after that cant even play it unless I pay 15 bucks a month" etc etc soo what do you say to those who say that?
#55 May 15 2013 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I've never seen anyone who favors F2P explain why, as a gamer, he or she thinks that would be beneficial. The argument is usually whether the gaming company (SE) will make more or less money. But as gamers, we should never wish for F2P to happen! Other than saving $12-$14/month, there are no benefits that F2P games can offer gamers."

I see peopel argue that all th etime, their answer is usually "because its stupid/I dont wanna pay monthly fee to play a game I already bought/own. What sense doese it make to pay 30-60 bucks for a game and then after that cant even play it unless I pay 15 bucks a month" etc etc soo what do you say to those who say that?


I'd say that if you can't afford to pay 15 bucks a month for unlimited entertainment, then you shouldn't be playing mmo's to begin with, as clearly you have bigger problems with your life. It's not a lot of money. If it is to those people, then they really need to reevaluate their priorities, or actually come up with a budget for their expenses.
#56 May 15 2013 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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The other common argument for F2P is that it attracts more people but as I've argued against that point in the past, I want my MMO's to be choosy Smiley: laugh
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#57 May 15 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I've never seen anyone who favors F2P explain why, as a gamer, he or she thinks that would be beneficial. The argument is usually whether the gaming company (SE) will make more or less money. But as gamers, we should never wish for F2P to happen! Other than saving $12-$14/month, there are no benefits that F2P games can offer gamers."

I see peopel argue that all th etime, their answer is usually "because its stupid/I dont wanna pay monthly fee to play a game I already bought/own. What sense doese it make to pay 30-60 bucks for a game and then after that cant even play it unless I pay 15 bucks a month" etc etc soo what do you say to those who say that?


I'd say that if you can't afford to pay 15 bucks a month for unlimited entertainment, then you shouldn't be playing mmo's to begin with, as clearly you have bigger problems with your life. It's not a lot of money. If it is to those people, then they really need to reevaluate their priorities, or actually come up with a budget for their expenses.


When I was laid off I canceled cable, stopped eating out, and cut other expenses. I was still able to afford XI's monthly fee while looking for a new job.

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The other common argument for F2P is that it attracts more people but as I've argued against that point in the past, I want my MMO's to be choosy


Choosy MMO's choose Wint.

Edited, May 15th 2013 9:19am by Louiscool
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#58 May 15 2013 at 7:19 AM Rating: Default
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Bahahaha!!! this is totally off topic but just from reading this thread i have found a few people here i would like to be in a LS with... just so its known F2P is a horrible idea in every way possible for this game... and has been stated that its not going to be F2P at all so why are we still even going back and forth over this???

just another side note to all of this......... Yoshi-P will be playing his own game do you really think hes going to be spending his money on anything in a cash shop? if so your down right dumb as ****...

Edited, May 15th 2013 8:19am by Mmoderator
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#59 May 15 2013 at 7:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
Choosy MMO's choose Wint.


Smiley: laugh Sigged.
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#60 May 15 2013 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I've never seen anyone who favors F2P explain why, as a gamer, he or she thinks that would be beneficial. The argument is usually whether the gaming company (SE) will make more or less money. But as gamers, we should never wish for F2P to happen! Other than saving $12-$14/month, there are no benefits that F2P games can offer gamers."

I see peopel argue that all th etime, their answer is usually "because its stupid/I dont wanna pay monthly fee to play a game I already bought/own. What sense doese it make to pay 30-60 bucks for a game and then after that cant even play it unless I pay 15 bucks a month" etc etc soo what do you say to those who say that?


I'd say that if you can't afford to pay 15 bucks a month for unlimited entertainment, then you shouldn't be playing mmo's to begin with, as clearly you have bigger problems with your life. It's not a lot of money. If it is to those people, then they really need to reevaluate their priorities, or actually come up with a budget for their expenses.


When I was laid off I canceled cable, stopped eating out, and cut other expenses. I was still able to afford XI's monthly fee while looking for a new job.


Absolutely, same here. Even when I was broke living in NYC as a freelance designer making less than 400 bucks a week, I was still able to budget for FFXI. Course I was living off Ramen and cereal with water (milk was too expensive), but I survived. I can never eat Ramen again, but I survived.
#61 May 15 2013 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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BOOOOOOM!!!!!!! the above is pure dedication like a motha @#%^a.... props bartel i kneel to you ;P

Edited, May 15th 2013 8:43am by Mmoderator
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#62 May 15 2013 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
"I've never seen anyone who favors F2P explain why, as a gamer, he or she thinks that would be beneficial. The argument is usually whether the gaming company (SE) will make more or less money. But as gamers, we should never wish for F2P to happen! Other than saving $12-$14/month, there are no benefits that F2P games can offer gamers."

I see peopel argue that all th etime, their answer is usually "because its stupid/I dont wanna pay monthly fee to play a game I already bought/own. What sense doese it make to pay 30-60 bucks for a game and then after that cant even play it unless I pay 15 bucks a month" etc etc soo what do you say to those who say that?


I'd say that if you can't afford to pay 15 bucks a month for unlimited entertainment, then you shouldn't be playing mmo's to begin with, as clearly you have bigger problems with your life. It's not a lot of money. If it is to those people, then they really need to reevaluate their priorities, or actually come up with a budget for their expenses.



Exactly.. Im like I spend 65 bucks a month (and Im sure those other ppl who whine about f2p do too) buying a new game and I dont even have a job (well i do now) but if i could come up with 65 bucks every month with no job, no unemployment or no government assistance (basically no kinda check at all) every month to buy a new game SURELY coming up with 15 bucks a month isnt hard.. and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work... 7 + 7 = 14 soooo too pay for FFXIV Id have to sacrifice a WHOLE 2 mcdonalds lunches a month?!?!? omg the horror?!?!? thats like TOTAL impossible and hard to do!!!! lmao... seriously ppl are cheap
#63 May 15 2013 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly
#64 May 15 2013 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly


That's like 2 games and a DLC season pass-worth of McDonalds!
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#65 May 15 2013 at 8:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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A flat fee of $15/ month or so, for a months worth of entertainment is still substantially cheaper than one night out at the bar, out to eat, movies, etc.
Presuming you play one night a week for a month, that averages out to a little under 4 dollars for a nights worth of entertainment.

Furthermore, it may be cheaper to spend a monthly fee rather than micro transactions. Micro transactions may add up to more than a said fee per month because you will nickle and dime yourself. People are more likely to spend small bills on items rather than big bills, if a micro transaction shop exists our logic would dictate that a dollar here and there isn't that much. It's because of that logic that small items and knickknacks are found near register checkout lines. Basically, you're more likely to spend singles on something small rather than break a 10/20/50 bill for the same item.
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#66 May 15 2013 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly



lol because where i work has a mcdonals right inside of it so its kinda hared to resist seeing as its staring at you for 8 hours a day lol. otherwise i wouldnt lol. and yup its amazing that depsites all that i still keep my 125 lbs physique lol so no its not like im 300 lbs or getting there otherwise Id stop if that were starting to happen lol... but I excersice everday... like for example the 0 minute walk to work and the 40 min walk back everyday lol as for what im getting that costs that much... a number 4 :p lol
#67 May 15 2013 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly



lol because where i work has a mcdonals right inside of it so its kinda hared to resist seeing as its staring at you for 8 hours a day lol. otherwise i wouldnt lol. and yup its amazing that depsites all that i still keep my 125 lbs physique lol so no its not like im 300 lbs or getting there otherwise Id stop if that were starting to happen lol... but I excersice everday... like for example the 0 minute walk to work and the 40 min walk back everyday lol as for what im getting that costs that much... a number 4 :p lol


Haha, fair enough. Good metabolisms are a thing of beauty. My fiance hates me for it, as I can eat basically whatever I want and never gain an ounce, and she can just look at a chicken wing and gain 5 lbs.
#68 May 15 2013 at 10:32 AM Rating: Good
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly



lol because where i work has a mcdonals right inside of it so its kinda hared to resist seeing as its staring at you for 8 hours a day lol. otherwise i wouldnt lol. and yup its amazing that depsites all that i still keep my 125 lbs physique lol so no its not like im 300 lbs or getting there otherwise Id stop if that were starting to happen lol... but I excersice everday... like for example the 0 minute walk to work and the 40 min walk back everyday lol as for what im getting that costs that much... a number 4 :p lol


Double Quarter-Pounder FTW
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#69 May 15 2013 at 11:59 AM Rating: Excellent
I am kind of a fitness nut, actually. Eatin that much Micky Ds is still awful for you! Think about the cholesterol, too. It is great that you get so much walking in, but just be careful with fast food!
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#70 May 15 2013 at 12:01 PM Rating: Decent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly



lol because where i work has a mcdonals right inside of it so its kinda hared to resist seeing as its staring at you for 8 hours a day lol. otherwise i wouldnt lol. and yup its amazing that depsites all that i still keep my 125 lbs physique lol so no its not like im 300 lbs or getting there otherwise Id stop if that were starting to happen lol... but I excersice everday... like for example the 0 minute walk to work and the 40 min walk back everyday lol as for what im getting that costs that much... a number 4 :p lol


On the internet, everyone has a great physique, a foreign car in the driveway, and a Brazilian model as a wife/girlfriend.
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#71 May 15 2013 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
ACLinjury wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly



lol because where i work has a mcdonals right inside of it so its kinda hared to resist seeing as its staring at you for 8 hours a day lol. otherwise i wouldnt lol. and yup its amazing that depsites all that i still keep my 125 lbs physique lol so no its not like im 300 lbs or getting there otherwise Id stop if that were starting to happen lol... but I excersice everday... like for example the 0 minute walk to work and the 40 min walk back everyday lol as for what im getting that costs that much... a number 4 :p lol


On the internet, everyone has a great physique, a foreign car in the driveway, and a Brazilian model as a wife/girlfriend.


Please don't generalize. Mine is Malaysian Smiley: tongue
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#72 May 15 2013 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
and now that I DO have a job I spend 7 dollars a day 140 dollars a month on mcdonalds for my lunch breaks at work


Woah dude. That's a lot of McDonald's... what are you buying that's 7 bucks a day? And I suppose the bigger question, why are you eating at McDonald's so much? I know it's delicious, but that sh*t is absolutely killing you. I only ask because I care. Smiley: sly



lol because where i work has a mcdonals right inside of it so its kinda hared to resist seeing as its staring at you for 8 hours a day lol. otherwise i wouldnt lol. and yup its amazing that depsites all that i still keep my 125 lbs physique lol so no its not like im 300 lbs or getting there otherwise Id stop if that were starting to happen lol... but I excersice everday... like for example the 0 minute walk to work and the 40 min walk back everyday lol as for what im getting that costs that much... a number 4 :p lol


On the internet, everyone has a great physique, a foreign car in the driveway, and a Brazilian model as a wife/girlfriend.


I'm going to assume this is just a joke... because I fail to see how being 125 lbs and eating MdDonald's exemplifies your statement.
#73 May 15 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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Think of the pink slime, if nothing else.
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#74 May 15 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Think of the pink slime, if nothing else.


At least they use meat PARTS. Taco Bell uses 36% beef in their "Taco Meat Filling."
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#75 May 15 2013 at 3:06 PM Rating: Good
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Btw: Wow, people on the RIFT forums are ********* some paid a 1-year-subscription, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of refund.
#76 May 15 2013 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Btw: Wow, people on the RIFT forums are ********* some paid a 1-year-subscription, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of refund.


Oh, that sucks. I recall a few people here from 1.0 mentioning they had paid extra crysta before it went F2P during that period (was that you? Can't remember...). I think I'll head over and look.

Edit: Wait, hold on. The article that Torrence linked to mentions a hybrid model. I'm assuming the people who paid for the subscription can continue with the same model. Just seems like SWTOR where there's the option for F2P. Then again, in SWTOR it's pretty pointless not to pay...those "free" options are an embarrassment.

Edited, May 15th 2013 4:14pm by Atkascha

Edited, May 15th 2013 4:18pm by Atkascha
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#77 May 15 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Btw: Wow, people on the RIFT forums are ********* some paid a 1-year-subscription, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of refund.


That is total horsepucky. Trion had really good customer service when I was playing. I can't imagine how they could have not seen this coming. Unless you're a conspiracy theorist, and you think they did it on purpose......which is entirely possible.
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#78 May 15 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, seems like Trion listened to player feedback and incorporated the widely requested F2P model. There's still the option of continuing to pay if that's your preference.
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#79 May 15 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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I just browsed the Rift forums, and I'm actually amazed at the number of people NOT asking for a refund. Sure there are a lot of people who are and are annoyed, but there are almost as many who seem to not really care about getting their money back. Seems odd to me, I'd be pretty upset if I paid for a service and then it went F2P and I basically lost that money.

Edited, May 15th 2013 5:21pm by BartelX
#80 May 15 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Maybe there weren't many players with yearly subs. I mean there isn't any other good explanation. No matter what "extra" they might give them since they went F2P, we still talk for a lot of money.
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#81 May 15 2013 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
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From what I understand, those players will have their "paid" versions of the game honored for as long as they continue to pay. That could explain why there's no real uproar about refunds.
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#82 May 15 2013 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
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Oh... lifetime subscriptions.

well, that happens with a lot of games which go free. I don't know how you reimburse those people.

Edited, May 15th 2013 6:32pm by Killua125
#83 May 15 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
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I think Bartel took this to mean that the F2P model will go in effect next month for everyone, regardless of whether or not they paid upfront for a year's worth of playtime. If that were true, I would want them to lobby for refunds. From Massively's article on the topic, it's not.
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#84 May 15 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Maybe there weren't many players with yearly subs. I mean there isn't any other good explanation. No matter what "extra" they might give them since they went F2P, we still talk for a lot of money

There is. It's called dissonance reduction. You paid, but get no refund, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Rather than admitting you completely, utterly wasted your money it feels a lot better to *hope*. E.g., that the compensative
perks Trion might hand out are actually worth it. Or that your "voluntary" contribution will keep the game running. Or that it
will entice the developers to work on a "miracle patch" full steam (sounds familiar?), because, like, it would be incredibly
unfair if they didn't, right? And the world just has to be fair.

I can actually imagine the contagious rationalizations taking hold of the forums pretty quick; and as more and more of those
who perceive the rip-off as the rip-off it is leave, the remaining players will collectively reassure each other that the blatant
injustice is not so bad after all, as it comes with some extras. Few will remember that paying $150 for a 10% faster mount
was not what they had in mind when they started playing the game... ^^

And most likely, the "subscriber" perks will include a reduction in cash-shop item prices. Because a 15% discount makes you
buy 30% more than what you would have bought without the discount ^^

TL/DR:
The compensation is a few perks that ensure you feel better than the rest and continue spending money in the cash shop.

Edited, May 15th 2013 6:46pm by Rinsui
#85Killua125, Posted: May 15 2013 at 5:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) In general, I don't really feel bad for people who buy these lifetime subscriptions though. This situation has happened time and time again in P2P games which have gone free. I don't know what kind of people play a game and say "I KNOW I'm going to be playing this for a YEAR, at least", because that's the mindset you need for it to be a deal.
#86 May 15 2013 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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All lifetime subscriptions, even yearly subscriptions, are a gamble. Look at the folks who bought lifetime paid Livejournal accounts ten years ago. Yeah, LJ is still going, but ever since it was bought out by the Russians and everyone moved to Facebook instead, it's sort of died a sad, undignified death. I haven't logged in in months. I forget about it completely until someone posts in a community I moderate and I need to give it the OK. (Half the time it's, "Is anyone still here?")

You may have paid off your mortgage in Ghost Town, but what's the point of owning real estate when everyone else has fled?

Edited, May 15th 2013 7:21pm by Catwho
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#87 May 15 2013 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Or that your "voluntary" contribution will keep the game running. Or that itwill entice the developers to work on a "miracle patch" full steam (sounds familiar?)


Ha, yes that does sound familiar. I think that's what all of us who played 1.0 when it came out were waiting for, so that definitely strikes close to home, and does make sense in perspective. I guess it must just be the optimist in people. I've always tried to be an optimist when I can.

When I was in 6th grade I entered a speech writing contest where the topic was Optimism: The Right Stuff. I was terrified to give my speech, but actually got through it and did quite well. I didn't win, mainly because I was going against kids in 8th, 9th, and 10th grade... but after seeing and listening to all the different positive outlooks that people gave from that speech, I find it very difficult not to look for the good, even in a bad situation. I guess I can chalk that up as the one good thing middle school taught me, among all the ridicule and awkwardness.
#88 May 15 2013 at 11:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
In general, I don't really feel bad for people who buy these lifetime subscriptions though. This situation has happened time and time again in P2P games which have gone free. I don't know what kind of people play a game and say "I KNOW I'm going to be playing this for a YEAR, at least", because that's the mindset you need for it to be a deal.



Well not true. I keep bringing up Eve online as an example cause its an indie MMO that has held 10 years with P2P system. Many people have from 6 to 1 year subscription, why? Because they save up a lot of money that way. I don't do it i tops do for 2 to 3 months and thats it. But its not the players fault that do it. Sure is a gamble but the fault is the games entirely. Not that, that means anything who cares right? But if we are to blame someone lets not blame the players but the game.
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#89 May 15 2013 at 11:50 PM Rating: Default
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I'm saying nobody really joins a game (EVE, WoW, whatever) and KNOWS this is gonna be fun/enjoyable for not days, weeks, months, but YEARS. How can you really know?

The only time I really understand people getting the lifetime sub is on those DC/Marvel superhero games where the comic book nerds are gonna play it whether they like it or not.

Edited, May 16th 2013 1:53am by Killua125
#90 May 16 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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This game isn't going F2P anytime soon so this argument is moot but I will argue for the vs P2P side just to show it has merit. On further note I approve of a hybrid model not a full blown F2P or P2P to offer choice. A hybrid done right does not affect you P2P supporters only the other options.

In a hybrid you can pay a subscription for access to everything. A development team doesn't have to limit anything to push people towards a cash shop. They choose to often, but they do not need to. Let me use a car analogy. Not everyone wants to pay a persistent payment over the course of years for a fully loaded vehicle. Some prefer buying it cheap and adding features they want at a time convienient for them. And some people with lower budgets do not want to only own one fully loaded car with payments but prefer 2-3 cars fully paid with certain features missing at the start.

The reason why the F2P market is booming and the P2P market is slightly losing ground is not because P2P is lower quality. This is happening because most of the mmo world is offering flexible payment plans. And people with limited incomes no longer have to settle for one game.

I keep seeing the argument that P2P is dirt cheap or if you can't afford a measly monthly fee you shouldn't be playing these types of games, or you can eat ramen noodles if you have to, to play the game you want. Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.

When you stand by P2P only, you are communicating to the masses:
1.I am better than other P2P or F2P mmos.
2.I offer a better experience you cannot experience in other mmos.
3.I am so good that I can place a fixed price on my service regardless if competitors are not.
4.We do not care about customers financial woes or priorities. Pay our service or you can't play.
5.Regardless of whether you know at the time whether you will play this month or not. Pay our service at the selected time given.
6.The content in our game is of greater quality and breadth than what any other mmo offers.

These six things could be argued from both sides. But the fact that this argument is exist is my point.
If this game is those six things to most people. It will sale and prosper like a fireworks on Fourth of July, but constant.
If this game is not those things to many people. It will hover in the land of 500k subs or less, depending on the slope of things.


#91 May 16 2013 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.


Because there are a lot of gamers who only like to play one mmo at a time, and truly invest in that one game. That's how I am. I don't play multiple mmo's. I sub one and invest myself fully in that game. Most of the other people I've gamed with do the same. Sure, there are probably lots of people who like to play multiple mmo's at once, and that's where the F2P system works great for them. For me though, and a lot of people like me, we just want to be able to play the game, get all the content, and not worry about missing out on things like specific mounts, XP bonuses, cosmetic clothing, etc that cash shops push out.

I also don't like the idea of just buying my way through a game. I want to earn that mount. I want to earn that santa costume. Not just dish out 5-10 bucks for it. That's not satisfying to a lot of gamers.
#92 May 16 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
sandpark wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.


Because there are a lot of gamers who only like to play one mmo at a time, and truly invest in that one game. That's how I am. I don't play multiple mmo's. I sub one and invest myself fully in that game. Most of the other people I've gamed with do the same. Sure, there are probably lots of people who like to play multiple mmo's at once, and that's where the F2P system works great for them. For me though, and a lot of people like me, we just want to be able to play the game, get all the content, and not worry about missing out on things like specific mounts, XP bonuses, cosmetic clothing, etc that cash shops push out.

I also don't like the idea of just buying my way through a game. I want to earn that mount. I want to earn that santa costume. Not just dish out 5-10 bucks for it. That's not satisfying to a lot of gamers.

I propse the best of both worlds in a P2P only model then. Are you ready?????????
A P2P only model with a kick. Everyone has access to everything and receive all updates, maintenance, etc.
And now for the kick which takes everyone's feelings into account.
A daily payment model:
The cost of playing one day is set at 50 cents.
How many days would you like to play for?
<drop down for days>(Price total off to the right here)

You could pay for 1-6 days, 1-3 weeks, 1-11 months, or one year.
At the bottom of page it asks if you would like this amount of time and money to be a recurring charge on a monthly basis.

Then the argument of what they want to pay for is solved.

Edited, May 16th 2013 11:14am by sandpark
#93 May 16 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Default
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sandpark wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.




I propse the best of both worlds in a P2P only model then. Are you ready?????????
A P2P only model with a kick. Everyone has access to everything and receive all updates, maintenance, etc.
And now for the kick which takes everyone's feelings into account.
A daily payment model:
The cost of playing one day is set at 50 cents.
How many days would you like to play for?
<drop down for days>(Price total off to the right here)

You could pay for 1-6 days, 1-3 weeks, 1-11 months, or one year.
At the bottom of page it asks if you would like this amount of time and money to be a recurring charge on a monthly basis.

Then the argument of what they want to pay for is solved.

Edited, May 16th 2013 11:14am by sandpark


Um... that's what P2P is.
#94 May 16 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Adzieboy wrote:
sandpark wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.




I propse the best of both worlds in a P2P only model then. Are you ready?????????
A P2P only model with a kick. Everyone has access to everything and receive all updates, maintenance, etc.
And now for the kick which takes everyone's feelings into account.
A daily payment model:
The cost of playing one day is set at 50 cents.
How many days would you like to play for?
<drop down for days>(Price total off to the right here)

You could pay for 1-6 days, 1-3 weeks, 1-11 months, or one year.
At the bottom of page it asks if you would like this amount of time and money to be a recurring charge on a monthly basis.

Then the argument of what they want to pay for is solved.

Edited, May 16th 2013 11:14am by sandpark


Um... that's what P2P is.

Almost except they don't let you pay by the day.
#95 May 16 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think it would make financial sense to use a pay by day system. Loads of people would only pay for weekends or a one-off day now and again. Why do it that way when they would make a load more money charging for a month?
#96 May 16 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Catwho already pioneered something like this I believe.
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#97 May 16 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Found it.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1364070377325124815#1

Edited, May 16th 2013 10:37am by Wint
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#98 May 16 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Adzieboy wrote:
I don't think it would make financial sense to use a pay by day system. Loads of people would only pay for weekends or a one-off day now and again. Why do it that way when they would make a load more money charging for a month?

Would they make more money per month restricting it to monthly? That depends on the strength of their product.
But imagine even if it was a strong product. What if 10 million people could see paying exactly for the days they played as opposed to only 1 million paying $15 per month no matter how much they play?

It's never been attempted in an mmo that I know of. Maybe you're right.
#99 May 16 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
Found it.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1364070377325124815#1

Edited, May 16th 2013 10:37am by Wint

That is better than the force feed system.
#100 May 16 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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ACLinjury wrote:
A flat fee of $15/ month or so, for a months worth of entertainment is still substantially cheaper than one night out at the bar, out to eat, movies, etc.
Presuming you play one night a week for a month, that averages out to a little under 4 dollars for a nights worth of entertainment.

Furthermore, it may be cheaper to spend a monthly fee rather than micro transactions. Micro transactions may add up to more than a said fee per month because you will nickle and dime yourself. People are more likely to spend small bills on items rather than big bills, if a micro transaction shop exists our logic would dictate that a dollar here and there isn't that much. It's because of that logic that small items and knickknacks are found near register checkout lines. Basically, you're more likely to spend singles on something small rather than break a 10/20/50 bill for the same item.


Winner!

And a rate-ups to Thayos as well...

Edited, May 16th 2013 2:22pm by DrymChaser
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#101 May 16 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
I just browsed the Rift forums, and I'm actually amazed at the number of people NOT asking for a refund. Sure there are a lot of people who are and are annoyed, but there are almost as many who seem to not really care about getting their money back. Seems odd to me, I'd be pretty upset if I paid for a service and then it went F2P and I basically lost that money.

Edited, May 15th 2013 5:21pm by BartelX


I'd thought about asking for a refund for SL. I logged in one time after the open saw the like 2MM or so xp to level 51. Basically determined they were absolutely putting endgame out of reach for players like me.

I really hope FFXIV can recapture the reason why I want to play a subscription-based MMO. Keep things improving, keep the community accountable, and keep things attainable IN-game!

Edited, May 16th 2013 2:29pm by DrymChaser
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