Forum Settings
       
1 2 3 4 Next »
Reply To Thread

RIFT goes Free-To-Play...Follow

#152 May 18 2013 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
The issue here is people's definition of pay to win. P2W is a term reserved for items that are only available through the cash shop that are better than what is available to players who play the game normally. An example would be a super strength materia that is of a higher quality than anything you could obtain playing the game. Buying a relic weapon that has all of the stats a normal relic has with an added augment of your choice. Buying a buff for your character that allows you to do more damage, take less damage or otherwise outperform people who weren't spending real money.

Almost all of the buffs and perks in the games I mentioned do nothing more than either make an aesthetic change in your characters appearance or shorten the time it takes you to accrue the experience or currency needed to unlock the exact same things you could unlock by playing the game normally. Not pay to win.

I disagree. Anything that increases your performance already falls into the pay to win category for me.
Even if it's just an EXP boost, it will grant you an incremental advantage by paying cash; faster to the
top, more jobs leveled, quicker access to endgame loot. Not fair in my playbook.
#153 May 18 2013 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
Ostia wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
Yeah, league is also pretty great with it's f2p system. The community sucks, but I've spent about 50 bucks on just skins and various other things, but they limit any items that would help you win to in-game currency earned by playing.


I was actually gonna bring Legue as an example of F2P done right, the game is totally free, and there is nothing you can buy, that gives you an edge over somebody that does not pay a dime. There are little elements that can be implemented on XIV, and eventually they will, i bet money that sooner or later, there will be a pet/mount for sale :) You can count on that.


See, there are certain things they could do (and probably will) that I wouldn't mind at all.

-Additional inventory
-Additional Retainers
-Name, Hair, Face, Gender or server changes.
-Premium Hairstyles
-Chocobo or other mount skins

These are all great ways to add revenue, but I would still prefer a P2P game, for the simple fact that the payment model determines the developer motivations.

P2P: Devs are focusing on content that keeps you subbing each month. They have to keep you long term in order to make money, so they focus on things you can OWN and feel a part of the world, so you won't leave it. Housing, seasonal events, battle content and non-battle content for fun are all goals.

F2P: The Devs definitely want you to play, but they do not care as much about longevity if you spend money. Their goals are you create money, so their development teams are split, with designers working on the coolest premium armor and other things. In many f2p games, it's rare to find an actual unique and interesting weapon or armor in a drop, because they add all these skins for them at a cost.

In the end, I would rather the devs try to keep us playing, rather than paying.

Edited, May 18th 2013 10:07am by Louiscool
____________________________


#154 May 18 2013 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Thayos wrote:
Quote:
I'd rather they take XI's approach and sell a stuffed animal in real life for $20 that comes with a code for a pet mount.


Yeah, this is cool!

I don't mind items being sold by gaming companies, but I just don't want that to be the primary business model of the game. I want the vast majority of all rewards -- whether it's exp, gil, items, skins, epic gear, whatever -- to be earned in the game. A few bonus items here and there (as more of something special for fans) is totally cool.


So like a Blizzard approach ? Only sell a few mounts/pets on special occasions etc etc. Nothing groundbreaking etc etc.

P.S: I only mentioned blizzard because that is the only company i know to have done it right, i have no idea if this was done in FFXI correctly.


The Tidal Talisman and the furniture for the Piano Collections CD come to mind. Blizzard does these a lot and many times the proceeds go toward some type of charity. I remember picking up the pet that proceeds went to Red Cross for victims of the earthquake and tsunami in Japan. Obviously SE was affected by the tragedy and couldn't respond the same way, but it would be nice to see more things like this from SE.



Actually, SE did solicit $10 donations for an in game reward, come to think of it.
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#155 May 18 2013 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
****
4,152 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
The issue here is people's definition of pay to win. P2W is a term reserved for items that are only available through the cash shop that are better than what is available to players who play the game normally. An example would be a super strength materia that is of a higher quality than anything you could obtain playing the game. Buying a relic weapon that has all of the stats a normal relic has with an added augment of your choice. Buying a buff for your character that allows you to do more damage, take less damage or otherwise outperform people who weren't spending real money.

Almost all of the buffs and perks in the games I mentioned do nothing more than either make an aesthetic change in your characters appearance or shorten the time it takes you to accrue the experience or currency needed to unlock the exact same things you could unlock by playing the game normally. Not pay to win.

I disagree. Anything that increases your performance already falls into the pay to win category for me.
Even if it's just an EXP boost, it will grant you an incremental advantage by paying cash; faster to the
top, more jobs leveled, quicker access to endgame loot. Not fair in my playbook.

This isn't anything you couldn't already do on your own if you spend more time playing the game.

It's no different than being a player who spends more time playing. You still have to participate in endgame to get loot. You'd have a point if there was some sort of system that you could pay for a better chance at loot, but that isn't the case. In XI, people can level jobs overnight while they're afk so I don't see it being an issue.

In a game like World of Tanks if you get to the top faster you are playing against people who are more skilled than you and experience is performance based. You're going to get your *** handed to you and get less experience for your effort...
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#156 May 18 2013 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
837 posts
Truth be told, Teras F2P system so far is way better than many others. You have no restrictions whatsoever when playing. At least from what i saw so far and from what i read.

I wont lie that I don't like the xp/gold/rep boosts but its hardly a big issue. Every time the stupid SWTOR f2p system comes in mind where if you are free player you get 50% less exp, not to mention all the other problems.
____________________________
YaY signature!! (i was never good with signatures >_<)

Grim Reaperz (Ultros server)
#157 May 18 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
18 posts
I played Tera when it was p2p and I play it now when its f2p.

All I can say is... when it was p2p it had bigger overall value to me than now. Not because of some commitement but because running all around reading chat full of noobs who joined tera only because they were bored is not fun. Also make golds is sooo easy, you buy few mouts/keys off shop and sell them on ah. etc, etc... That is really something I dont see playing for a long time ...

f2p .. no thank you

Edited, May 18th 2013 12:30pm by Waiwan
#158 May 18 2013 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
The issue here is people's definition of pay to win. P2W is a term reserved for items that are only available through the cash shop that are better than what is available to players who play the game normally. An example would be a super strength materia that is of a higher quality than anything you could obtain playing the game. Buying a relic weapon that has all of the stats a normal relic has with an added augment of your choice. Buying a buff for your character that allows you to do more damage, take less damage or otherwise outperform people who weren't spending real money.

Almost all of the buffs and perks in the games I mentioned do nothing more than either make an aesthetic change in your characters appearance or shorten the time it takes you to accrue the experience or currency needed to unlock the exact same things you could unlock by playing the game normally. Not pay to win.

I disagree. Anything that increases your performance already falls into the pay to win category for me.
Even if it's just an EXP boost, it will grant you an incremental advantage by paying cash; faster to the
top, more jobs leveled, quicker access to endgame loot. Not fair in my playbook.


I agree with Rinsui on this one. Getting to level cap is an aspect of character development just as much so as earning the best equipment. Even if it weren't, getting to endgame more quickly often allows you to do so before the competition shows up, so if there's any competitive impetus to the endgame, things like XP boosts are definitely P2W. Arguably, even increased inventory space treads into P2W if it allows you to make money faster, spend less time traveling and sorting, and ultimately progress through the game more quickly. That is the definition of P2W: using real life money to progress through the game more quickly. There's a spectrum, of course, and some are worse than others, but they definitely fall on that spectrum. Even tumors are benign sometimes.

Edited, May 18th 2013 11:36am by Kachi
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#159 May 18 2013 at 12:42 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,232 posts
I agree. Any game that allows you to wield your credit card to gain and advantage is pay to win. No matter how slight the advantage it's still an advantage. It only took me 3 matches on Dust514 to realize that it's not a F2P game. It's an in-game currency vending machine. In my opinion any game based on paying RL money for an in game advantage is not focusing on the parts of the experience that I care about.
____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#160 May 18 2013 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
Whew, I thought I was the only one who felt that way. Yeah, I too think anything giving you some kind of an advantage is P2W. Obviously there are differing levels, and something like buying endgame gear certainly trumps buying and experience boost, but they are both still pay to win. You are paying for a competitive advantage which allows you to advance in the game more quickly. Isn't that pretty much the definition of pay to win? Even if it's available via quest, that doesn't stop someone from doing the quest AND paying for it to double up.
#161 May 18 2013 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,152 posts
Kachi wrote:
Even if it weren't, getting to endgame more quickly often allows you to do so before the competition shows up, so if there's any competitive impetus to the endgame, things like XP boosts are definitely P2W.


The days of competing for claim are over. This would probably hold up in FFXI where you might have competition for world spawns, but outside of PvP there really isn't any competition at endgame in anything these days.

Kachi wrote:
That is the definition of P2W: using real life money to progress through the game more quickly.


By your definition there are elements of all games, including F2P and subscription, that are pay to win. If I pay a dollar a month for a character slot to store gear and list items on AH, am I paying to win? Is making money the ultimate goal of FFXI? I think that's something people aren't considering here. Of course no one likes to feel like they are at a disadvantage, but the mentality doesn't carry through in all types of games unless the goal is clear. You can't define P2W if you can't elaborate on exactly what winning is.

In a game like World of Tanks it's clear. Defeat your enemies by destroying them all or capturing the key objectives. You can clearly define pay to win because you know what winning is. Not the case in many MMOs where there is no ultimate objective.

I guess it comes down to each individual player and what they wish to accomplish in-game, but even if we can't agree on what P2W is; there are clearly many avenues that games can take using a F2P model and a cash shop that wouldn't be considered P2W. What makes me scratch my head is that the people who are against paying a cash shop are more than willing to toss money at the game anyway... Smiley: dubious
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#162 May 18 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,450 posts
Quote:
By your definition there are elements of all games, including F2P and subscription, that are pay to win. If I pay a dollar a month for a character slot to store gear and list items on AH, am I paying to win? Is making money the ultimate goal of FFXI? I think that's something people aren't considering here. Of course no one likes to feel like they are at a disadvantage, but the mentality doesn't carry through in all types of games unless the goal is clear. You can't define P2W if you can't elaborate on exactly what winning is.


Yeah... the definition of pay-to-win has expanded quite dramatically in this thread. It's important to remember that free-to-play games have to make money in order to continue operating. Selling XP boosts is a standard practice for those games and is NOT generally considered a pay-to-win element because XP can be obtained through non-extraordinary means.

Selling endgame gear would be a pay-to-win scenario even if that gear is obtainable normally (albeit probably with a low drop rate) because gear directly correlates to player power. While you CAN make the same argument for character level, the fact is if levels are too hard to gain without the boost, then the game has different problems and isn't going to last long anyway.

And yeah... FFXI... $1/month extra for 80 extra item slots and an AH mule in the starting nations is somehow NOT pay-to-win under this definition?
____________________________
svlyons wrote:
If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.
#163 May 18 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Quote:
By your definition there are elements of all games, including F2P and subscription, that are pay to win. If I pay a dollar a month for a character slot to store gear and list items on AH, am I paying to win? Is making money the ultimate goal of FFXI? I think that's something people aren't considering here. Of course no one likes to feel like they are at a disadvantage, but the mentality doesn't carry through in all types of games unless the goal is clear. You can't define P2W if you can't elaborate on exactly what winning is.


There ARE P2W elements in many games, including the use of mules, etc. Again, its a spectrum. It exists in degrees. Most of us will not bat an eyelash at something as commonplace as a mule.

Winning in MMOs is merely the fulfillment of objectives. That's what winning is in all games throughout history. That could be leveling up, the completion of content, or the acquisition of gear. The goal doesn't have to be clear. It's the player's perceptions and personal goals that matter, and there are a series of social understandings of what it means to "win" at MMOs. Like in sports, there is an inextricable cultural element that defines what accomplishments have value. "Beating the game," or "getting the best gear," are generally accepted as winning in most MMOs.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#164 May 18 2013 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
***
1,310 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
In TERA you can either purchase those nifty bunny ears for your character with real money or you can earn enough money to purchase them with gold on the auction. In World of Tanks you can either play 200 games and grind out the experience and credits to unlock and purchase tanks or you can subscribe to a premium account and do it in less time(read: games played). In League of Legends you can grind out the IP to unlock champions over a longer time or you can purchase bonuses to IP to get them in less games played.


Isn't that like playing a game of Monopoly where you can wait to land on Boardwalk and Park Place with the in-game dice and pay with in-game money, or just slip the banker $20 and get the properties now? I remember the old days where this was called cheating and you didn't put up with people who did that.

But if this were a game where everyone put in $5 and the winner took the pot, at least then the rules aren't contingent on how much money you're willing to fork over other than the initial buy-in. It's much more acceptable when the game itself is equal to all participants once you have a seat at the table.


Edited, May 18th 2013 4:21pm by Xoie
#165 May 18 2013 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
****
4,152 posts
Kachi wrote:
There ARE P2W elements in many games, including the use of mules, etc. Again, its a spectrum. It exists in degrees. Most of us will not bat an eyelash at something as commonplace as a mule.

Winning in MMOs is merely the fulfillment of objectives. That's what winning is in all games throughout history. That could be leveling up, the completion of content, or the acquisition of gear. The goal doesn't have to be clear. It's the player's perceptions and personal goals that matter, and there are a series of social understandings of what it means to "win" at MMOs. Like in sports, there is an inextricable cultural element that defines what accomplishments have value. "Beating the game," or "getting the best gear," are generally accepted as winning in most MMOs.


It's not a spectrum, it's just not defined. No one is stating that there needs to be a clear goal, just that you can't attach a clear definition to something that's grey. You could say there are PvP elements that are P2W if you could purchase gear that gave you an advantage in winning PvP matches or you could say that PvE is pay to win if you could purchase gear that gave you an advantage in clearing PvE content. It is or it isn't, but there's no spectrum.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#166 May 18 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Kachi wrote:
There ARE P2W elements in many games, including the use of mules, etc. Again, its a spectrum. It exists in degrees. Most of us will not bat an eyelash at something as commonplace as a mule.

Winning in MMOs is merely the fulfillment of objectives. That's what winning is in all games throughout history. That could be leveling up, the completion of content, or the acquisition of gear. The goal doesn't have to be clear. It's the player's perceptions and personal goals that matter, and there are a series of social understandings of what it means to "win" at MMOs. Like in sports, there is an inextricable cultural element that defines what accomplishments have value. "Beating the game," or "getting the best gear," are generally accepted as winning in most MMOs.


It's not a spectrum, it's just not defined. No one is stating that there needs to be a clear goal, just that you can't attach a clear definition to something that's grey. You could say there are PvP elements that are P2W if you could purchase gear that gave you an advantage in winning PvP matches or you could say that PvE is pay to win if you could purchase gear that gave you an advantage in clearing PvE content. It is or it isn't, but there's no spectrum.


World English Dictionary
grey or gray (ɡreɪ) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— adj
1. of a neutral tone, intermediate between black and white, that has no hue and reflects and transmits only a little light
2. greyish in colour or having parts or marks that are greyish
3. dismal or dark, esp from lack of light; gloomy
4. neutral or dull, esp in character or opinion
5. having grey hair
6. of or relating to people of middle age or above: grey power
7. ancient; venerable
8. (of textiles) natural, unbleached, undyed, and untreated

— n
9. any of a group of grey tones
10. grey cloth or clothing: dressed in grey
11. an animal, esp a horse, that is grey or whitish

— vb
12. to become or make grey

[Old English grǣg; related to Old High German grāo, Old Norse grar ]

While ostensibly I'm being a smartass, if you'll think critically about the definition of grey, I think you'll find that you're quite mistaken, both conceptually and etymologically. Life is made of spectrum, and measured in quantities, even in seemingly abstract concepts like "P2W"ness.
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#167 May 18 2013 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Guru
***
1,310 posts
Kachi wrote:
While ostensibly I'm being a smartass, if you'll think critically about the definition of grey, I think you'll find that you're quite mistaken, both conceptually and etymologically. Life is made of spectrum, and measured in quantities, even in seemingly abstract concepts like "P2W"ness.


Ironic, because you state Filth is "quite mistaken," implying you're absolutely right about everything being relative. Smiley: lol
#168 May 18 2013 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
*
130 posts
I wish there was a good way to incorporate pay to win/free to play elements into a MMO well. I find that the kinds of players who tend to run these games and dictate their cultures are often the same cut. The game culture is run by adolescent 17-25 year old males: too young to have anything better to do for 20-40 hours a week, but just old enough to be able to herd cats around the internet. Sometimes I think that if the games weren't giving performance enhancements to the players who tend to have the time and lack of responsibility enough to grind the timesink mechanics, that leadership and culture would be dictated by the talented, mature, or effective leadership instead of the...neckbeard type or the cocky college sophomore playing big fish in a little pond.

However, once you go pay for performance/free to play, the entire culture of the MMO takes a who gives a **** turn, and all of the above is just an idealistic dream. In the end the game's probably best run by adolescent 17-25 year old males. I'm certainly not doing it any more lol...I just show up these days and beat things with an axe. Still, it's frustrating to see MMO's select out the same kind of player to lead the games every generation, and there's always a steady supply of unattached self-assured males in society and at least they aren't out rioting or things that other country's have to deal with.

But you know how there's like no classic RPG's these days with the exploration component that there was in the PSX era because a total remake of FF7 in today's 3d standards would consume way too many resources? I don't want to see MMO's go that way, where there IS no such thing as a subscription game because the times changed.

I can't see Rift doing well in this F2P model unless they really focus on their PVP players. But I think PVE is done. They did so well early on, but I think they really made some bad decisions with the kinds of players they tailored HK to. That was the beginning of the end.
____________________________
Peregrine Falcon
Rendezvous Zone LS
Mrd/Con/BS/GS/Min
#169 May 18 2013 at 4:11 PM Rating: Default
***
2,202 posts
I like where this is going Smiley: lol
____________________________
MUTED
#170 May 18 2013 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
9,997 posts
Xoie wrote:
Kachi wrote:
While ostensibly I'm being a smartass, if you'll think critically about the definition of grey, I think you'll find that you're quite mistaken, both conceptually and etymologically. Life is made of spectrum, and measured in quantities, even in seemingly abstract concepts like "P2W"ness.


Ironic, because you state Filth is "quite mistaken," implying you're absolutely right about everything being relative. Smiley: lol


life=! everything
____________________________
Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#171 May 18 2013 at 6:12 PM Rating: Good
*
229 posts
Quote:
(UPDATE: A Trion representative tells us this isn't true, and that the layoff numbers have been exaggerated. However, they would not tell us how many people were laid off.)


It wasnt 100 ppl who were fired! That number is exaggerated! It was actually 99.5! ..lol
____________________________
[IMG]http://www.avatarsdb.com/avatars/anime_avatar_01.gif[/IMG]
#172 May 24 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
725 posts
EA is shutting down two of their games that were ftp - basically - so sad too bad, we don't owe you anything because the game was ftp - it was beta, now we are using the resources for something else.

nevermind that people spend actually money on specialty items, since you didn't need them to advance in the game, they can't be sued (they say).

So two years playing and in two weeks, goodbye. At least with a game that cost money to play, you have a little bit of security knowing they have money coming in.

Grand Momma
____________________________
http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/242033

Name: Ghost Orchid - LEVEL 50 Bard, BLM, WHM, SMN Craft Level 7 Lucis, 6 4-star crafts: CUL, MIN, Wvr, Bsm, Gsm, Arm, Lth, Crp (Fishing and Alc at level 50)
World: Ultros
#173 May 24 2013 at 1:53 PM Rating: Default
***
2,202 posts
I...don't... even...Wtf
____________________________
MUTED
#174 May 24 2013 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Yep, F2P games can fail too!

I'm very much hoping that SE has learned its lesson well from FFXI... you don't need a playerbase of millions in order to have an immensely profitable game over time. Also, taking the long view on profit can be far more profitable than the quick cash grab.
____________________________
Thayos Redblade
Jormungandr
Hyperion
#175 May 24 2013 at 2:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
837 posts
What games i haven't read anything and i am curious since i hate EA.
____________________________
YaY signature!! (i was never good with signatures >_<)

Grim Reaperz (Ultros server)
#176 May 24 2013 at 2:56 PM Rating: Good
***
2,232 posts
I found thisbut idk if that's what granny meant...

____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#177 May 24 2013 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
970 posts
Any game can fail, be it P2P or F2P. When it fails it either switches models or shuts down. Can't sue for closing down. It's like filing for bankruptcy.

I think a bigger thing that XIV needs to get right is the combat.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/feature/7025/Cerebral-vs-Visceral-Combat-Part-1.html

This one post is the direction I agree with most from the above article.
fdisk81 writes:
Excellent article! I'd like to add my 2-cents if you'll oblige.

Back when WoW was the undisputed MMO Champion I wished for the combat to be more fast paced. I mean, you'd just walk up to a mob and use the exact same rotation as you did for the one before for the most part.

Once the new batch of "Action MMOs" started coming out, I loved it at first, but then I quickly grew tired of them. Action combat is OK for a single player game, but in an MMO it becomes a mess of people just running around and spamming the same abilities. I find that in all action MMOs I have played, I get pretty tired of the combat after playing for an hour or so. Every time I logged into GW2 or TERA I loved the **** out of the combat for the first 10-15 minutes and then I would quickly grow tired/exhausted of it. I can play a turn-based, tactical combat game for hours upon end on the other hand.

After much thinking and playing XCOM Enemy Unknown I think I have it narrowed down. I didn't start disliking WoW's combat because it was turn based, on the contrary, that's the part I enjoyed. I grew tired of it because it was slow paced and repetitive.

My absolute favorite combat moments in WoW and any other MMO were always when a mob would use an action that I could either counter, interrupt, or prevent by another action of my own. As a Warrior, my favorite thing has always been to interrupt a caster with a well timed shield slam, or use Revenge when a mob happens to miss me, or engage an active block for a particular powerful attack, etc.

The problem with WoW mobs is that with the exception of bosses, they all tend to have just one or two at the most special abilities you can interact with; the rest is just combat monotony. I think what is really needed in the MMO world is simply better AI for mobs that adapts and fights depending on what it's being presented with.

If a mob is encountering a caster it should try to bridge the gap, if it gets rooted it should try to attack at range. There should be ways for the player to counter a mob's actions, or to active block, etc. Not just once per fight as it's usual the case in WoW, but rather the cooldowns shouldn't be as long and punishing, it should allow for this interaction to happen several times per fight.

Furthermore, each mob should have a better ******* of skills, otherwise we land into the routine of things again. A caster mob should sometimes use a fireball, but sometimes it should use an ice spell, or an AoE, etc. Each of those should then be allowed to be countered or prevented by the player if they time it right; this would make each fight with the same type of mob a more varied experience.

I'm not saying this is a magic bullet solution, everything eventually becomes monotonous and repetitive, but at least this would alleviate the problem. After giving Action MMOs a try I have to admit I was wrong and I really look forward to games in the future hopefully being a next step of turn-base tactical combat.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/446/feature/7041/Cerebral-vs-Visceral-Combat-Part-2.html

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1c8jfr/opinion_on_the_new_battle_system_spoilers/

In my opinion the speed or interface is not what makes combat feel visceral or cerebral. It is how deep each ability vs the opponents counters and vise versa which makes a combat system great. That and nuances in skill firing off via a skill modifier function/button.

I bring up the combat here because this is the one subject that I am seeing many people either liking, disliking, or just stating it is nothing new. Love it or hate it. Combat is the meat and potatoes of an mmo and it needs to stand out enough in a good way.
1 2 3 4 Next »
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 66 All times are in CST
Callinon, FilthMcNasty, Lyrailis, Seriha, Anonymous Guests (62)