Forum Settings
       
Reply To Thread

RIFT goes Free-To-Play...Follow

#77 May 15 2013 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
***
2,232 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Btw: Wow, people on the RIFT forums are ********* some paid a 1-year-subscription, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of refund.


That is total horsepucky. Trion had really good customer service when I was playing. I can't imagine how they could have not seen this coming. Unless you're a conspiracy theorist, and you think they did it on purpose......which is entirely possible.
____________________________
Character: Urzol Thrush
Server: Ultros
FC: The Kraken Club

Outshined

Teneleven wrote:
We secretly replaced your tank wemelchor with Foldgers Crystal's. Let's see what happens.

#78 May 15 2013 at 3:15 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
660 posts
Yeah, seems like Trion listened to player feedback and incorporated the widely requested F2P model. There's still the option of continuing to pay if that's your preference.
____________________________
Nasozan, Midgardsormr Server. R.I.P.
75 BRD, SAM, WHM; 74 THF, BLM; 69 PLD, BST.
Darth Howie wrote:
Woe unto he who tries to be helpful, for upon him shall be lain the burdens of all.
- Squall 15:11
#79 May 15 2013 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
I just browsed the Rift forums, and I'm actually amazed at the number of people NOT asking for a refund. Sure there are a lot of people who are and are annoyed, but there are almost as many who seem to not really care about getting their money back. Seems odd to me, I'd be pretty upset if I paid for a service and then it went F2P and I basically lost that money.

Edited, May 15th 2013 5:21pm by BartelX
#80 May 15 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
837 posts
Maybe there weren't many players with yearly subs. I mean there isn't any other good explanation. No matter what "extra" they might give them since they went F2P, we still talk for a lot of money.
____________________________
YaY signature!! (i was never good with signatures >_<)

Grim Reaperz (Ultros server)
#81 May 15 2013 at 4:29 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
660 posts
From what I understand, those players will have their "paid" versions of the game honored for as long as they continue to pay. That could explain why there's no real uproar about refunds.
____________________________
Nasozan, Midgardsormr Server. R.I.P.
75 BRD, SAM, WHM; 74 THF, BLM; 69 PLD, BST.
Darth Howie wrote:
Woe unto he who tries to be helpful, for upon him shall be lain the burdens of all.
- Squall 15:11
#82 May 15 2013 at 4:31 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
**
972 posts
Oh... lifetime subscriptions.

well, that happens with a lot of games which go free. I don't know how you reimburse those people.

Edited, May 15th 2013 6:32pm by Killua125
#83 May 15 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
660 posts
I think Bartel took this to mean that the F2P model will go in effect next month for everyone, regardless of whether or not they paid upfront for a year's worth of playtime. If that were true, I would want them to lobby for refunds. From Massively's article on the topic, it's not.
____________________________
Nasozan, Midgardsormr Server. R.I.P.
75 BRD, SAM, WHM; 74 THF, BLM; 69 PLD, BST.
Darth Howie wrote:
Woe unto he who tries to be helpful, for upon him shall be lain the burdens of all.
- Squall 15:11
#84 May 15 2013 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
Maybe there weren't many players with yearly subs. I mean there isn't any other good explanation. No matter what "extra" they might give them since they went F2P, we still talk for a lot of money

There is. It's called dissonance reduction. You paid, but get no refund, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Rather than admitting you completely, utterly wasted your money it feels a lot better to *hope*. E.g., that the compensative
perks Trion might hand out are actually worth it. Or that your "voluntary" contribution will keep the game running. Or that it
will entice the developers to work on a "miracle patch" full steam (sounds familiar?), because, like, it would be incredibly
unfair if they didn't, right? And the world just has to be fair.

I can actually imagine the contagious rationalizations taking hold of the forums pretty quick; and as more and more of those
who perceive the rip-off as the rip-off it is leave, the remaining players will collectively reassure each other that the blatant
injustice is not so bad after all, as it comes with some extras. Few will remember that paying $150 for a 10% faster mount
was not what they had in mind when they started playing the game... ^^

And most likely, the "subscriber" perks will include a reduction in cash-shop item prices. Because a 15% discount makes you
buy 30% more than what you would have bought without the discount ^^

TL/DR:
The compensation is a few perks that ensure you feel better than the rest and continue spending money in the cash shop.

Edited, May 15th 2013 6:46pm by Rinsui
#85Killua125, Posted: May 15 2013 at 5:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) In general, I don't really feel bad for people who buy these lifetime subscriptions though. This situation has happened time and time again in P2P games which have gone free. I don't know what kind of people play a game and say "I KNOW I'm going to be playing this for a YEAR, at least", because that's the mindset you need for it to be a deal.
#86 May 15 2013 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
Needs More Smut
******
21,262 posts
All lifetime subscriptions, even yearly subscriptions, are a gamble. Look at the folks who bought lifetime paid Livejournal accounts ten years ago. Yeah, LJ is still going, but ever since it was bought out by the Russians and everyone moved to Facebook instead, it's sort of died a sad, undignified death. I haven't logged in in months. I forget about it completely until someone posts in a community I moderate and I need to give it the OK. (Half the time it's, "Is anyone still here?")

You may have paid off your mortgage in Ghost Town, but what's the point of owning real estate when everyone else has fled?

Edited, May 15th 2013 7:21pm by Catwho
____________________________
FFXI: Catwho on Bismarck: Retired December 2014
Thayos wrote:
I can't understand anyone who skips the cutscenes of a Final Fantasy game. That's like going to Texas and not getting barbecue.

FFXIV: Katarh Mest and Taprara Rara on Lamia Server - Member of The Swarm
Curator of the XIV Wallpapers Tumblr and the XIV Fashion Tumblr
#87 May 15 2013 at 7:05 PM Rating: Good
****
6,899 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Or that your "voluntary" contribution will keep the game running. Or that itwill entice the developers to work on a "miracle patch" full steam (sounds familiar?)


Ha, yes that does sound familiar. I think that's what all of us who played 1.0 when it came out were waiting for, so that definitely strikes close to home, and does make sense in perspective. I guess it must just be the optimist in people. I've always tried to be an optimist when I can.

When I was in 6th grade I entered a speech writing contest where the topic was Optimism: The Right Stuff. I was terrified to give my speech, but actually got through it and did quite well. I didn't win, mainly because I was going against kids in 8th, 9th, and 10th grade... but after seeing and listening to all the different positive outlooks that people gave from that speech, I find it very difficult not to look for the good, even in a bad situation. I guess I can chalk that up as the one good thing middle school taught me, among all the ridicule and awkwardness.
#88 May 15 2013 at 11:02 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
**
837 posts
Killua125 wrote:
In general, I don't really feel bad for people who buy these lifetime subscriptions though. This situation has happened time and time again in P2P games which have gone free. I don't know what kind of people play a game and say "I KNOW I'm going to be playing this for a YEAR, at least", because that's the mindset you need for it to be a deal.



Well not true. I keep bringing up Eve online as an example cause its an indie MMO that has held 10 years with P2P system. Many people have from 6 to 1 year subscription, why? Because they save up a lot of money that way. I don't do it i tops do for 2 to 3 months and thats it. But its not the players fault that do it. Sure is a gamble but the fault is the games entirely. Not that, that means anything who cares right? But if we are to blame someone lets not blame the players but the game.
____________________________
YaY signature!! (i was never good with signatures >_<)

Grim Reaperz (Ultros server)
#89 May 15 2013 at 11:50 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
**
972 posts
I'm saying nobody really joins a game (EVE, WoW, whatever) and KNOWS this is gonna be fun/enjoyable for not days, weeks, months, but YEARS. How can you really know?

The only time I really understand people getting the lifetime sub is on those DC/Marvel superhero games where the comic book nerds are gonna play it whether they like it or not.

Edited, May 16th 2013 1:53am by Killua125
#90 May 16 2013 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
972 posts
This game isn't going F2P anytime soon so this argument is moot but I will argue for the vs P2P side just to show it has merit. On further note I approve of a hybrid model not a full blown F2P or P2P to offer choice. A hybrid done right does not affect you P2P supporters only the other options.

In a hybrid you can pay a subscription for access to everything. A development team doesn't have to limit anything to push people towards a cash shop. They choose to often, but they do not need to. Let me use a car analogy. Not everyone wants to pay a persistent payment over the course of years for a fully loaded vehicle. Some prefer buying it cheap and adding features they want at a time convienient for them. And some people with lower budgets do not want to only own one fully loaded car with payments but prefer 2-3 cars fully paid with certain features missing at the start.

The reason why the F2P market is booming and the P2P market is slightly losing ground is not because P2P is lower quality. This is happening because most of the mmo world is offering flexible payment plans. And people with limited incomes no longer have to settle for one game.

I keep seeing the argument that P2P is dirt cheap or if you can't afford a measly monthly fee you shouldn't be playing these types of games, or you can eat ramen noodles if you have to, to play the game you want. Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.

When you stand by P2P only, you are communicating to the masses:
1.I am better than other P2P or F2P mmos.
2.I offer a better experience you cannot experience in other mmos.
3.I am so good that I can place a fixed price on my service regardless if competitors are not.
4.We do not care about customers financial woes or priorities. Pay our service or you can't play.
5.Regardless of whether you know at the time whether you will play this month or not. Pay our service at the selected time given.
6.The content in our game is of greater quality and breadth than what any other mmo offers.

These six things could be argued from both sides. But the fact that this argument is exist is my point.
If this game is those six things to most people. It will sale and prosper like a fireworks on Fourth of July, but constant.
If this game is not those things to many people. It will hover in the land of 500k subs or less, depending on the slope of things.


#91 May 16 2013 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
****
6,899 posts
sandpark wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.


Because there are a lot of gamers who only like to play one mmo at a time, and truly invest in that one game. That's how I am. I don't play multiple mmo's. I sub one and invest myself fully in that game. Most of the other people I've gamed with do the same. Sure, there are probably lots of people who like to play multiple mmo's at once, and that's where the F2P system works great for them. For me though, and a lot of people like me, we just want to be able to play the game, get all the content, and not worry about missing out on things like specific mounts, XP bonuses, cosmetic clothing, etc that cash shops push out.

I also don't like the idea of just buying my way through a game. I want to earn that mount. I want to earn that santa costume. Not just dish out 5-10 bucks for it. That's not satisfying to a lot of gamers.
#92 May 16 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
972 posts
BartelX wrote:
sandpark wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.


Because there are a lot of gamers who only like to play one mmo at a time, and truly invest in that one game. That's how I am. I don't play multiple mmo's. I sub one and invest myself fully in that game. Most of the other people I've gamed with do the same. Sure, there are probably lots of people who like to play multiple mmo's at once, and that's where the F2P system works great for them. For me though, and a lot of people like me, we just want to be able to play the game, get all the content, and not worry about missing out on things like specific mounts, XP bonuses, cosmetic clothing, etc that cash shops push out.

I also don't like the idea of just buying my way through a game. I want to earn that mount. I want to earn that santa costume. Not just dish out 5-10 bucks for it. That's not satisfying to a lot of gamers.

I propse the best of both worlds in a P2P only model then. Are you ready?????????
A P2P only model with a kick. Everyone has access to everything and receive all updates, maintenance, etc.
And now for the kick which takes everyone's feelings into account.
A daily payment model:
The cost of playing one day is set at 50 cents.
How many days would you like to play for?
<drop down for days>(Price total off to the right here)

You could pay for 1-6 days, 1-3 weeks, 1-11 months, or one year.
At the bottom of page it asks if you would like this amount of time and money to be a recurring charge on a monthly basis.

Then the argument of what they want to pay for is solved.

Edited, May 16th 2013 11:14am by sandpark
#93 May 16 2013 at 9:17 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
Avatar
**
599 posts
sandpark wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.




I propse the best of both worlds in a P2P only model then. Are you ready?????????
A P2P only model with a kick. Everyone has access to everything and receive all updates, maintenance, etc.
And now for the kick which takes everyone's feelings into account.
A daily payment model:
The cost of playing one day is set at 50 cents.
How many days would you like to play for?
<drop down for days>(Price total off to the right here)

You could pay for 1-6 days, 1-3 weeks, 1-11 months, or one year.
At the bottom of page it asks if you would like this amount of time and money to be a recurring charge on a monthly basis.

Then the argument of what they want to pay for is solved.

Edited, May 16th 2013 11:14am by sandpark


Um... that's what P2P is.
#94 May 16 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
972 posts
Adzieboy wrote:
sandpark wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Why would a gamer be pushed towards making choices like that if the majority of mmos have more flexible payment models.




I propse the best of both worlds in a P2P only model then. Are you ready?????????
A P2P only model with a kick. Everyone has access to everything and receive all updates, maintenance, etc.
And now for the kick which takes everyone's feelings into account.
A daily payment model:
The cost of playing one day is set at 50 cents.
How many days would you like to play for?
<drop down for days>(Price total off to the right here)

You could pay for 1-6 days, 1-3 weeks, 1-11 months, or one year.
At the bottom of page it asks if you would like this amount of time and money to be a recurring charge on a monthly basis.

Then the argument of what they want to pay for is solved.

Edited, May 16th 2013 11:14am by sandpark


Um... that's what P2P is.

Almost except they don't let you pay by the day.
#95 May 16 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
**
599 posts
I don't think it would make financial sense to use a pay by day system. Loads of people would only pay for weekends or a one-off day now and again. Why do it that way when they would make a load more money charging for a month?
#96 May 16 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Catwho already pioneered something like this I believe.
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#97 May 16 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
Found it.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1364070377325124815#1

Edited, May 16th 2013 10:37am by Wint
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#98 May 16 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
972 posts
Adzieboy wrote:
I don't think it would make financial sense to use a pay by day system. Loads of people would only pay for weekends or a one-off day now and again. Why do it that way when they would make a load more money charging for a month?

Would they make more money per month restricting it to monthly? That depends on the strength of their product.
But imagine even if it was a strong product. What if 10 million people could see paying exactly for the days they played as opposed to only 1 million paying $15 per month no matter how much they play?

It's never been attempted in an mmo that I know of. Maybe you're right.
#99 May 16 2013 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
972 posts
Wint wrote:
Found it.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?forum=152&mid=1364070377325124815#1

Edited, May 16th 2013 10:37am by Wint

That is better than the force feed system.
#100 May 16 2013 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
191 posts
ACLinjury wrote:
A flat fee of $15/ month or so, for a months worth of entertainment is still substantially cheaper than one night out at the bar, out to eat, movies, etc.
Presuming you play one night a week for a month, that averages out to a little under 4 dollars for a nights worth of entertainment.

Furthermore, it may be cheaper to spend a monthly fee rather than micro transactions. Micro transactions may add up to more than a said fee per month because you will nickle and dime yourself. People are more likely to spend small bills on items rather than big bills, if a micro transaction shop exists our logic would dictate that a dollar here and there isn't that much. It's because of that logic that small items and knickknacks are found near register checkout lines. Basically, you're more likely to spend singles on something small rather than break a 10/20/50 bill for the same item.


Winner!

And a rate-ups to Thayos as well...

Edited, May 16th 2013 2:22pm by DrymChaser
____________________________
Pikko wrote:
I'm here with the Sticky Wand of Doom!!

Osanshouo wrote:
What makes an unbeatable game fun?
Your friends.


Crysania Majere 50WHM, 50SCH, 50SMN
Kraken Club - Ultros
#101 May 16 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
191 posts
BartelX wrote:
I just browsed the Rift forums, and I'm actually amazed at the number of people NOT asking for a refund. Sure there are a lot of people who are and are annoyed, but there are almost as many who seem to not really care about getting their money back. Seems odd to me, I'd be pretty upset if I paid for a service and then it went F2P and I basically lost that money.

Edited, May 15th 2013 5:21pm by BartelX


I'd thought about asking for a refund for SL. I logged in one time after the open saw the like 2MM or so xp to level 51. Basically determined they were absolutely putting endgame out of reach for players like me.

I really hope FFXIV can recapture the reason why I want to play a subscription-based MMO. Keep things improving, keep the community accountable, and keep things attainable IN-game!

Edited, May 16th 2013 2:29pm by DrymChaser
____________________________
Pikko wrote:
I'm here with the Sticky Wand of Doom!!

Osanshouo wrote:
What makes an unbeatable game fun?
Your friends.


Crysania Majere 50WHM, 50SCH, 50SMN
Kraken Club - Ultros
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 104 All times are in CDT
Anonymous Guests (104)