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With Rift going free to play...Follow

#1 May 27 2013 at 10:11 AM Rating: Sub-Default
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Are FFXI, WoW and FFXIV the ONLY sub based MMOs left now?
#2 May 27 2013 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Is Eve still sub-based?
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#3 May 27 2013 at 10:20 AM Rating: Good
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I have a friend who recently took a forced break of EVE as of a few months ago. As of them you could pay with real life money or in-game money, so I guess that could still be considered sub-based.

Did Everquest 1/2 go free to play?
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#4 May 27 2013 at 10:26 AM Rating: Default
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EQ1 died a few montsh ago and i believe EQ2 has been F2P for a LLONNGG time now
#5 May 27 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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Source? I don't see anywhere that EQ1 is dead or even in the F2P stage.

Edit: Okay, seems that both EQ are free-to-play.

Edited, May 27th 2013 9:44am by UltKnightGrover
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#6 May 27 2013 at 10:38 AM Rating: Good
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Not the only ones left, but definitely the most successful.

And Everquest is free to play with restrictions with the option to subscribe.

Edited, May 27th 2013 12:40pm by BrokenFox
#7 May 27 2013 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
https://www.everquest.com/free

Definitely has gone free to play.
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#8 May 27 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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I stand corrected. Thanks!
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#9 May 27 2013 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
Most games will become F2P from the get go now, there's simply too many out there to go the P2P route. When EQ, XI, WoW came out, they were on their own for the most part, so they could charge people for monthly fees without any issues. Now, just off the top of my head there's what, Tera, EQ, EQII, EVE, XI, WoW, XIV (soon), LotRO, GW2, GW1, RO, ROII, SWtOR, AoC, Aion and I'm sure there's a ton more if I just google an MMO list. That's 15 MMO's, in a genre that's popular, but not overly popular. It's simply too many games with not enough people to go around, so you have to make F2P to even try to get people interested.

Honestly, of all your co-workers, friends, etc, how many do you know that actually play MMO's? Friends, sure I have a couple, but co-workers? A ton play video games, not a one plays MMOs, and they sure as **** don't understand why I do. By friends, I mean real life friends here, not the ones you've met on XI who have become RL friends with.

I get that P2P is the way to go for those of us who were around for the start of these games, I know Catwho, Wint, Thayos etc feel strongly about that and why wouldn't we? It's led to games with great communities that have kept us busy for years. Though, I do think eventually the model will die and be revamped into something else along the lines of what Catwho had mentioned in another thread. The companies have to do something else, cause I still have yet to stick to a F2P MMO (and I've tried several). I simply can't wrap my head around paying for in game items, seeing ads in game, paying a monthly fee but still having to pay for certain other things, it makes no sense!

I do hope XIV sticks with the p2p model, I haven't stuck to an MMO since XI and really want something to play on a consistent basis again. We'll see what happens though, all depends on what kind of population SE is happy with.
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#10 May 27 2013 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eve online is subscription based all way. Someone can play for free but only if he has a lot of cash in game (i was running 3 accounts for free and that was a lot of money each month) and also only if another player bought that in game item for 30days play time with real money. So if players stop buying those extra times the rest wont be able to play for free.

So the P2P MMOs that i know of so far are :
Eve online
WoW
FF XI
FF ARR (soon anyway)
Darkfall online

I'll edit once i remember more cause i am sure i missed some.

edit: It's still not certain but more than likely Elder Scrolls online will be pay to play.


Edited, May 27th 2013 1:23pm by Teravibe
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#11 May 27 2013 at 11:28 AM Rating: Default
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well with only 5 games p2p out of the hundreds of MMOs out there now whats the likelyhood of FFXIV being successful soley based on that fact? at least the other games on that list are old and already had its community and launch before the F2P craze.. but i think starting a p2p game in this day and age is just suicide... lets hope Im wrong
#12 May 27 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
Well, according to this (and most of these games seem up to date), there's still quite a few.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm

Edit: Some are just not up to date, but A Tale in the Desert among some others are still P2P.

Edited, May 27th 2013 1:31pm by Montsegurnephcreep
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#13 May 27 2013 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
Well, according to this (and most of these games seem up to date), there's still quite a few.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm


Yea i saw that list before but i seriously can't understand which are free to play buy to play and pay to play.
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#14 May 27 2013 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
Ya, that's the issue...some of them seem to be F2P, but if you really want anything, you HAVE to sub otherwise it's beyond limited.
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#15 May 27 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well with only 5 games p2p out of the hundreds of MMOs out there now whats the likelyhood of FFXIV being successful soley based on that fact? at least the other games on that list are old and already had its community and launch before the F2P craze.. but i think starting a p2p game in this day and age is just suicide... lets hope Im wrong


Well let me ask you a different question...

Based solely on that fact, what are the odds of FFXIV's development team wearing blue pants?

Basing a success and failure determination on a single piece of information taken in a vacuum is a pointless exercise because nothing ever works like that.

Based on a measurement of subscribers, FFXI has been failing quite successfully for nearly 11 years. Is it because the game has a subscription fee?
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#16 May 27 2013 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well with only 5 games p2p out of the hundreds of MMOs out there now whats the likelyhood of FFXIV being successful soley based on that fact? at least the other games on that list are old and already had its community and launch before the F2P craze.. but i think starting a p2p game in this day and age is just suicide... lets hope Im wrong



Not 100% true. Since i know a lot for Eve online ill give you an example for that. Eve online is a 10 year old game but each year has free expansions that improve the game more and more from graphics to gameplay, content etc. The game doesn't have the crazy subs other games have but its one of the few games that even now grows its subs more and more. 2012 they went above 400.000 subs and i believe in 2013 more than 500.000. Those numbers at least for me are really good. The reason i believe they have the steady rise in subs its because they offer a game that is pretty unique and because they do not let it die. Constant updates/upgrades lively community and many more.

So from that i came in the conclusion that if the game is good and it offers something unique something that will hook the players to play it over and over again then it will not fail but keep going and maybe rise.
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#17 May 27 2013 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well with only 5 games p2p out of the hundreds of MMOs out there now whats the likelyhood of FFXIV being successful soley based on that fact?


It's a good thing it won't be solely based on that fact then, huh? I agree if you look at it like that, considering ONLY the number of F2P vs. P2P, the likelihood of success is low. Thankfully, there are a lot of other factors at play. Only time will tell what happens.
#18 May 27 2013 at 12:23 PM Rating: Default
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Teravibe wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well with only 5 games p2p out of the hundreds of MMOs out there now whats the likelyhood of FFXIV being successful soley based on that fact? at least the other games on that list are old and already had its community and launch before the F2P craze.. but i think starting a p2p game in this day and age is just suicide... lets hope Im wrong



Not 100% true. Since i know a lot for Eve online ill give you an example for that. Eve online is a 10 year old game but each year has free expansions that improve the game more and more from graphics to gameplay, content etc. The game doesn't have the crazy subs other games have but its one of the few games that even now grows its subs more and more. 2012 they went above 400.000 subs and i believe in 2013 more than 500.000. Those numbers at least for me are really good. The reason i believe they have the steady rise in subs its because they offer a game that is pretty unique and because they do not let it die. Constant updates/upgrades lively community and many more.

So from that i came in the conclusion that if the game is good and it offers something unique something that will hook the players to play it over and over again then it will not fail but keep going and maybe rise.



EVE is already established though.. im sure if it came out just now things would be different
#19 May 27 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
well with only 5 games p2p out of the hundreds of MMOs out there now whats the likelyhood of FFXIV being successful soley based on that fact? at least the other games on that list are old and already had its community and launch before the F2P craze.. but i think starting a p2p game in this day and age is just suicide... lets hope Im wrong


Well let me ask you a different question...

Based solely on that fact, what are the odds of FFXIV's development team wearing blue pants?

Basing a success and failure determination on a single piece of information taken in a vacuum is a pointless exercise because nothing ever works like that.

Based on a measurement of subscribers, FFXI has been failing quite successfully for nearly 11 years. Is it because the game has a subscription fee?



Well the point Im making is this...

everyone claims FFXIV is taking teh casual WoW style approach because the EQ style of gameplay that FFXI took is "old" and "outdated" and wouldnt get as many ppl plying if it wasnt casual and "fast paced" (read instant gratification with little to no struggle), like WoW.

Ok now if THAT is supposedly true then from the looks of MMOs in teh last 3-5 year P2P is old and outdated too, the new thing is F2P and thus P2P wouldnt get as many subscribers or ppl interested as they would if they were F2P, so using that logic why get rid of one "outdated" style but keep another if your whole reason for changing the style in the first place was to get as many ppl coming in as possible, surely F2P (or B2P) would draw in an even bigger crowd that P2P right?
#20 May 27 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well i guess we agree we disagree because i do not believe it would have failed if it came out now since it offers something that no one else offers.

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#21 May 27 2013 at 1:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFXIV, or a FFXI release today, does not necessarily have to contend with this mythical instant-gratification playerbase that people like to blame for the current state of MMOs. What a FF MMO today has to contend with is low faith in the brand after XI was poorly managed (pretty much always), XII and XIII had very mixed critical receptions, and of course now, FFXIV has bombed. Final Fantasy used to be able to ride its own hype train, and now people are skeptical whether they can even make a good game.
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#22 May 27 2013 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
What a FF MMO today has to contend with is low faith in the brand after XI was poorly managed (pretty much always)


Not sure how a game that's poorly managed made it to be as big a success as FFXI has, or lasted 11 years while being the most highly profitable game SE has ever produced. That kind of seems like the antithesis of "poorly managed". Certainly there are some archaic and outdated or awkward components to it, much like there are in all current mmos, but the game as a whole has been a resounding success that millions of players over the years have thoroughly enjoyed and supported. Heck, even most of the outdated components such as open world endgame, and the crazy grind of the game have been updated and massively improved. As far as the other FF games since XI, I completely agree with you.
#23 May 27 2013 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Teravibe wrote:
Well i guess we agree we disagree because i do not believe it would have failed if it came out now since it offers something that no one else offers.




youre absolutely right.. thing is ppl this gen have the mentality of "why should i have to pay to play i game i already bought and own" so even if EVE came out today and was the BEST game ever created no one would give it a chance to find out for themselves just how good it is because they think its "stupid" to have to pay to play something they already bought once and own
#24 May 27 2013 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
Well i guess we agree we disagree because i do not believe it would have failed if it came out now since it offers something that no one else offers.




youre absolutely right.. thing is ppl this gen have the mentality of "why should i have to pay to play i game i already bought and own" so even if EVE came out today and was the BEST game ever created no one would give it a chance to find out for themselves just how good it is because they think its "stupid" to have to pay to play something they already bought once and own


This is just conjecture. You have absolutely no way of knowing how successful EVE would be if it came out now. The reason it is still successful is because it does something different. A lot of people really like that, and are willing to pay for it. Just like a lot of people are willing to pay for a well-done FF mmo. You can make claims to its success or failure all you want, but until it goes live and we see how it unfolds, it's nothing but assumptions.
#25 May 27 2013 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:

youre absolutely right.. thing is ppl this gen have the mentality of "why should i have to pay to play i game i already bought and own" so even if EVE came out today and was the BEST game ever created no one would give it a chance to find out for themselves just how good it is because they think its "stupid" to have to pay to play something they already bought once and own


You might have made that same argument about Everquest or FFXI back when they launched. "Why should I keep paying for a game I already bought" is a question I'd have expected to hear when MMOs were a brand new thing. I think people know what an MMO is now, and they know what a subscription service is. The question ACTUALLY boils down to "is this worth paying a subscription for?"

That's a completely different question, and an entirely legitimate one. But it's not a question that can be answered until the game actually launches and people have a chance to play it.

The question of whether people will play the game doesn't depend on whether it's subscription or cash-shop supported. It has everything to do with whether or not the game is worth playing.

Edited, May 27th 2013 3:01pm by Callinon
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#26 May 27 2013 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
What a FF MMO today has to contend with is low faith in the brand after XI was poorly managed (pretty much always), XII and XIII had very mixed critical receptions, and of course now, FFXIV has bombed.


Smiley: dubious

I accept that FFXIV bombed, but...

FFXII had a 92 / 100 on Metacritic. That's as critically acclaimed as you can expect a game to get short of it being legendary.

FFXI had 85 / 100.
FFXIII had 83 / 100.

Maybe those weren't gold standard, but they were hardly panned. It certainly doesn't point to this conspiracy that SE can no longer competently make a game, only that they haven't always hit home runs. I think FFXIV was a wake-up call, but hardly a trend.
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