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PVP Worlds...Follow

#1 May 31 2013 at 9:04 AM Rating: Good
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Already guys, so Yoshi announced that while he is very interested in a incorporating a ton of PVP into FFXIV2.0 he does not like the idea of Open World PVP..

I have to say, as a hardcore PVP'er - I highly disagree with this. I would love for the options of PVP realms and PVE realms. Those that didn't want the ability to gank in open world or to be ganked would be able to roll on PVE servers.

Anyone else with me on this?

Edited, Jun 3rd 2013 6:46pm by Wint Lock Thread: Yep
#2 May 31 2013 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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No.

PvP in general doesn't really belong in a Final Fantasy game. But if he wants to ***** around with arena-style pvp, that's probably fine.

Open world pvp just doesn't fit at all.
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#3 May 31 2013 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
No.

PvP in general doesn't really belong in a Final Fantasy game. But if he wants to ***** around with arena-style pvp, that's probably fine.

Open world pvp just doesn't fit at all.


Why do you feel this way? And why do you feel it doens't belong in an FF game? I've played every FF game, aside from 12+ and the portable games..And I see no reason why it couldn't be incorporated.
#4 May 31 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Default
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iontheable wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
No.

PvP in general doesn't really belong in a Final Fantasy game. But if he wants to ***** around with arena-style pvp, that's probably fine.

Open world pvp just doesn't fit at all.


Why do you feel this way? And why do you feel it doens't belong in an FF game? I've played every FF game, aside from 12+ and the portable games..And I see no reason why it couldn't be incorporated.


How many of those games had the heroes who were supposed to save the world mindlessly killing each other?

Absent mind control, it's quite an uncommon occurrence.
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#5 May 31 2013 at 9:12 AM Rating: Default
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
iontheable wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
No.

PvP in general doesn't really belong in a Final Fantasy game. But if he wants to ***** around with arena-style pvp, that's probably fine.

Open world pvp just doesn't fit at all.


Why do you feel this way? And why do you feel it doens't belong in an FF game? I've played every FF game, aside from 12+ and the portable games..And I see no reason why it couldn't be incorporated.


How many of those games had the heroes who were supposed to save the world mindlessly killing each other?

Absent mind control, it's quite an uncommon occurrence.


I get you, if you follow 100% traditional FF it doesn't fit. However, PVP is a huge part of the MMO market and I feel with 14 wanting to revamp and "succeed" they would tend to both sides of the fence.

And it doesn't have to be mindlessly killing, war'ing factions can always be incorporated into a story.

"yes we're all out to save the world" but what about when the world is "saved" which race/kingdom prevails? etc
#6 May 31 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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iontheable wrote:
Archmage Callinon wrote:
No.

PvP in general doesn't really belong in a Final Fantasy game. But if he wants to ***** around with arena-style pvp, that's probably fine.

Open world pvp just doesn't fit at all.


Why do you feel this way? And why do you feel it doens't belong in an FF game? I've played every FF game, aside from 12+ and the portable games..And I see no reason why it couldn't be incorporated.


The main reason a lot of people don't want to see open world pvp is because of the griefing it causes. Now, if there were to do it duel style where you had to accept an invitation for PvP, I'd be all for that. But just straight open world pvp leads to a bunch of asshats camping lowbie areas and ganking people until they log off or bring a group of their friends by to kill the gankers. Literally every game I've played with open-world pvp is plagued by this issue.
#7 May 31 2013 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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I see where you're coming from on that, and to an extent I agree. But it still just "feels wrong" for a Final Fantasy game.

I don't believe that every new MMO needs world pvp in order to succeed, and I believe it would clash with the Final Fantasy setting.
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#8 May 31 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Could definitely be argued both ways and I appreciate your open-mindedness, as well your points(good ones)

However, that's where my solution of two different server arch-types, PVP and PVE

For those that want to deal with the grieving(yes it's always there in open world pvp) and those that do not.
#9 May 31 2013 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Literally every game I've played with open-world pvp is plagued by this issue.

See, I enjoy this though. I'm never the griefing, I'm on the "team" that bans together to give the "asshats" a taste of their own medicine. It creates a subquest in mind "defend the weak"
#10 May 31 2013 at 9:20 AM Rating: Good
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iontheable wrote:
Could definitely be argued both ways and I appreciate your open-mindedness, as well your points(good ones)

However, that's where my solution of two different server arch-types, PVP and PVE

For those that want to deal with the grieving(yes it's always there in open world pvp) and those that do not.


Personally I'm fine with having separate open-world PvP servers. It has no effect on me whatsoever since I just wouldn't join one. I'm merely pointing out why a lot of people, especially FF players, tend to not enjoy open world pvp. I'm actually surprised Yoshi didn't opt for some with open-world... isn't he like a pvp champion for dark age of camelot or something?
#11 May 31 2013 at 9:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Is it viable to have open PVP in a game like this? Most MMOs with PVP have factions like the Alliance and the Horde from the get-go. If you were to do in in XIV you have the grand companies but you can opt in and out of those so it wouldn't make sense to me.
#12 May 31 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Adzieboy wrote:
Is it viable to have open PVP in a game like this? Most MMOs with PVP have factions like the Alliance and the Horde from the get-go. If you were to do in in XIV you have the grand companies but you can opt in and out of those so it wouldn't make sense to me.


You can opt in and out, but when you're in one, you'd just fight for that faction. It might not have that overarching feel of animosity towards the other factions, but it would still work logistically.
#13 May 31 2013 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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I am not a real big PvP person, but I do enjoy it from time to time. That being said I have not played many games with open world PvP, and the ones that I did turned into Zerg fests. Classes get tweeked, way to much due to balance issues, and that makes nobody happy anyway you look at it.

I can understand Arena style PvP, or maybe even group/LS style instanced PvP with large maps. Open World PvP would just be a huge mess, and hinderance to the game imo.
#14 May 31 2013 at 9:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think it fits in this game either. I don't really even like the duel option. I remember a few years ago I tried the 10 day free trial of WoW and someone challenged me to a duel and I declined, then 5 seconds later the same person challenges me again and I declined, then 5 seconds later again. I'm like WTF? I'm playing to have fun, not to be annoyed. Also there are plenty of other games out there that have PVP options in them to appease that crowd. I may try the PVP that they come up with for this game to see what it's like , but I don't think a PVP server in a FF mmo would have a very big population. Just my 2c.
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#15 May 31 2013 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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I'm up for arenas, maps, or open world zones where it's GC based and your choice to enter for non-questing purposes. But the point of FF as a universe is that it's all 3 nations against the Garlean empire or primals or whatever. I want to be able to group up with random people that I meet out there doing quests, not fight each other over spawns, have communication blocked because they're a different faction than I am, and certainly not end up on the 'wrong side' of a crazily imbalanced population.

The game just isn't structured for an all pvp all the time setup, and it would have to have that in mind from the start to really do it right.
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#16 May 31 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
And it doesn't have to be mindlessly killing, war'ing factions can always be incorporated into a story.

Hmm. As many others already pointed out: it simply doesn't fit the overarching concept of adventurers helping out each other.
That's simply what FF games are about. You may consider it dull, but the idea that we would not pull ourselves together to
overcome a common threat is just... strange. They are already adding arenas for competitive tournaments, to appeal to those
who absolutely must kill each other. But I wouldn't expect 1:1 battles in those either. More like Team A against team B.

Maybe they reconsider (although I doubt it). I just know that in all online games I know, the PvP servers always die first; even
before the RP servers. Because the thrill of checking your back every minute fades pretty quickly after you restart the same
quest for the 7th time just because some lololol cartman is camping the zone entrance for easy kills.

P.S.: Final argument: it builds animosity between the players. And there's enough of that to combat given the international
population anyway.

Edited, May 31st 2013 11:59am by Rinsui
#17 May 31 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with the opposition of open world pvp. Once you go down that road of making Open world PvP servers. You open pandoras box and have both sides asking for more content. One side the PvE, the other PvP. Just the seperate servers themselves promote segregation. If FFXIV wants to succeed it has to capture some of the community aspects it's older brother achieved.

Arenas & specific zones or areas of zones such as Yoshi mentioned are the best option for an FF. Where PvP cannot affect you unless you enter those zones. I turn down PvP duel request in Tera like a supermodel turns down broke, perverted, deviants. It gets annoying as ****.
If I wanna smash another players face in. I'll go to the appropriate zone.
#18 May 31 2013 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Open world PvP doesn't make sense in a Final Fantasy game.

"We must all work together to rebuild Eorzea and stand strong against the Garlean forces. But you're a different faction, so you must die first!"

Now if it's in the Gold Saucer or in a tournament in the Colosseum or the likes, that actually does sound fun.
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#19 May 31 2013 at 10:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Open world PvP doesn't make sense in a Final Fantasy game.

"We must all work together to rebuild Eorzea and stand strong against the Garlean forces. But you're a different faction, so you must die first!"

Now if it's in the Gold Saucer or in a tournament in the Colosseum or the likes, that actually does sound fun.


You can have the same goals but completely different ideals. I can see it as entirely plausible that not everyone will be on the same page.
#20 May 31 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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From a programmer's perspective, splintering the servers even further is also going to be a nightmare.

We already have:
- Legacy versus Clean Slate (non legacy)
- Time zone /region based

Add in PVP or PVE servers to that mix, and everyone in any given time zone with any given account status will have exactly one server they can join.

Edited, May 31st 2013 12:10pm by Catwho
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#21 May 31 2013 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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I would support having an arena where we could challenge players from other worlds, hold tournements etc.but not have a pvp world like WOW.

However, I'm not joining FF for PVP. I like fighting monsters and going on quests.

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#22 May 31 2013 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I think I speak for a lot of people....

If PVP is open world I wouldn't be playing very long. I don't want to walk outside a zone/city and see a bunch of people mindlessly killing each other. Then you have to add the "accept challenge" system, because Ill be damned if I walk around getting smacked in the face randomly. Also, with that, I don't want to spam "NO" to someone either.

However, having an arena or zone for PVP is fine. The arena doesn't have to be a Colosseum, it can be an open area. Make it fun, have a Castle on two sides and choke points for capture the flag? Just saying you can do a lot with a PVP "Zone." I liked Ballista, try that?

I will not play this game if it becomes or is open world PVP and I bet there are tons of other people who feel the same way.
#23 May 31 2013 at 10:34 AM Rating: Good
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"It doesn't feel like Final Fantasy" must be code for "I don't have the faith to believe the writers can come up with a scenario that makes PVP interesting, nor the imagination to come up with it myself." The only things that make a Final Fantasy game "feel" like a Final Fantasy game are similarly named objects and the title. I'm not a fan of PVP either, but let's come up with some realistic arguments like catwho and huhwhat presented.
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#24 May 31 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
"It doesn't feel like Final Fantasy" must be code for "I don't have the faith to believe the writers can come up with a scenario that makes PVP interesting, nor the imagination to come up with it myself." The only things that make a Final Fantasy game "feel" like a Final Fantasy game are similarly named objects and the title. I'm not a fan of PVP either, but let's come up with some realistic arguments like catwho and huhwhat presented.



Here's one...

Time could be better spent on mini-games from the FF series that we all love, like:

Triple Triad
Chocobo Racing and Raising
FFX's Blitzball!!!!!!!
Tetra Master

You name it. There are tons of FF mini-games that I bet people would love to see over PVP. I'm not saying PVP is a bad idea, I just think it needs to be regulated and implemented in a way that its more of a mini-game and not a staple of the game and it doesn't force people who don't want to play, into a corner. Also not saying that significant resources can't be used to make it a desired part of the game to spent time on.
#25Ostia, Posted: May 31 2013 at 11:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nobody cares about blitzball, nor about chocobo racing, they are good little additions, but nothing groundbraking that would bring millions of people flooding into the game... Unlike PVP :)
#26 May 31 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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This game wasn't built with world PVP in mind so I doubt we'll ever see anything like that implemented, and that's fine with me, but PVP in some capacity is definitely needed. It's a key feature of a MMO.
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