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#1 Jun 04 2013 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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What are some of your thoughts on how thief should be on XIV? Share some of the abilities/combos/limit breaks/ and gear possibilities you would like to see in game...

Personally I hope its a burst DD class and not a CC class... I would like to see many things return from XI (SA,TA,steal,flee,mug) however I would also like to see many of them leave and even at that I know it couldn't be played the same in XIV due to the speed of battle...

I think getting an invis ability is a for sure need in this title along with maybe some stuns or dark elemental attacks maybe even shadow attacks...

Just some thoughts from myself... I'd love to hear as much feedback as possible considering Im an open minded person and would like to convers about some of your thoughts...
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#2 Jun 04 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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I'd like to see it as more of a hybrid melee/range/stealth class. Maybe even with different stances. Like, you have a melee stance where you use quick strikes, acrobatic attacks, and increased movement speed in combat. Then there's a stance for more ranged attacks where you fight from a distance. The ranged attacks could be considerably lower damage, but have lots of added status effects... poison, slow, blind, defense down, etc. I'd also like to see an actual stealth ability incorporated, as I always have fun sneaking around undetected in enemy camps. It could be a really cool utility for dungeons. Send the thief in to swipe the key from the guard and unlock the gate from the other side, instead of having to take the long elaborate way around.

I'd also like it to have high evasion but low defense, similar to FFXI. So basically, just an upgraded version of FFXI thief really...
#3 Jun 04 2013 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah they would need a hide ability to evade an attack/move for x amount of time. An HP/MP steal move. SATA would probably be an in-game combo if it was done in FFXIV's iteration.
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#4 Jun 04 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Default
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too bad im sure theyll never implement thief (hows it gonna work without an agi stat?)
#5 Jun 04 2013 at 9:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
too bad im sure theyll never implement thief (hows it gonna work without an agi stat?)


Unless the game dies within the first year or so, I disagree completely. It's a FF staple, and there are a ton of people clamoring for it. As for no agi stat... who cares? Why would that be necessary? There are stats for evasion, attack, accuracy, etc. Having an agi stat doesn't NEED to be there in order to have a thief. Heck, they have archer without an agi stat.
#6 Jun 04 2013 at 9:56 AM Rating: Decent
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dude i refreshed right before i submitted **** near the same thing as you bartel... very good mind track there... ARC with no AGI is a huge deal when talking about this... and i to think its a staple job and a major part of FF so we will see it at some point...
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#7 Jun 04 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I'd like it to be a bit more like Rogue from Rift and WoW. None of this 5 minute CD for Flee or subbing NIN for Invis. They should have a Flee/Sprint ability useable every minute and should be able to vanish at any point. They should have a native dual wield ability and be able to use daggers and swords, and crossbows.
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#8 Jun 04 2013 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
I'd like it to be a bit more like Rogue from Rift and WoW. None of this 5 minute CD for Flee or subbing NIN for Invis. They should have a Flee/Sprint ability useable every minute and should be able to vanish at any point. They should have a native dual wield ability and be able to use daggers and swords, and crossbows.

Crossbows might be tricky due to the armory system, but I agree.
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#9 Jun 04 2013 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mmoderator wrote:
dude i refreshed right before i submitted **** near the same thing as you bartel... very good mind track there... ARC with no AGI is a huge deal when talking about this... and i to think its a staple job and a major part of FF so we will see it at some point...

There's no guarantee that Stats will be the same as they were in 1.23. If they're streamlining gear, you should assume that they're also adjusting stats and attributes.
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#10 Jun 04 2013 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd like to see Thief as vagrant hybrid melee/tank class. Not ranged, a thief wouldn't shoot arrows except maybe throw daggers. I would like to see them use debuffs such as throw dirt, sleep dart, steal buffs, steal gil, sneak attack(staggers enemy briefly catching them offguard), scout(ability to see what treasures a monster holds), a treasure stealing/damage weaponskills not a trait(it would be this games trick attack). Thief should have a low timer hide and flee. I do not want Invis, vanish, or shadows in a defensive manner in this game. Thief can dual wield daggers. It would have two stances: Quick for melee stance and Acrobats for tanking.

The reason why I do not want Thief getting a ranged and their focus to be on daggers and stealth. Is because I want Thief to be the possible evasion tank in this game.
And ninja to start their ws or magic from far closing the gap for huge damage. I want ninjas evasion and defense to suck *** this time around and make them a powerful dd. I'd rather ninja have one katana and magic.

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Edited, Jun 4th 2013 12:51pm by sandpark
#11 Jun 04 2013 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
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all of this possible inv and stealth, what about if they bring NIN along. I see that more getting the inv and stealth. Unless they have different levels in which each job gets it
#12 Jun 04 2013 at 11:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I could picture the class being called Vagabond.

Burst DMG would be nice, as well as hide/sneak.

I'd love a WoW/ffxi rogue/thf hybrid class.
#13 Jun 04 2013 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
too bad im sure theyll never implement thief (hows it gonna work without an agi stat?)


Unless the game dies within the first year or so, I disagree completely. It's a FF staple, and there are a ton of people clamoring for it. As for no agi stat... who cares? Why would that be necessary? There are stats for evasion, attack, accuracy, etc. Having an agi stat doesn't NEED to be there in order to have a thief. Heck, they have archer without an agi stat.



because agility is usually the stat used to measure evasion in most RPGs? >.>
#14 Jun 04 2013 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
BartelX wrote:
DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
too bad im sure theyll never implement thief (hows it gonna work without an agi stat?)


Unless the game dies within the first year or so, I disagree completely. It's a FF staple, and there are a ton of people clamoring for it. As for no agi stat... who cares? Why would that be necessary? There are stats for evasion, attack, accuracy, etc. Having an agi stat doesn't NEED to be there in order to have a thief. Heck, they have archer without an agi stat.



because agility is usually the stat used to measure evasion in most RPGs? >.>


Psst... there's an evasion stat in the game already.
#15 Jun 04 2013 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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How did the concept of THF being a hate controller backfire on the job? Do you mean in a merit setting where a bunch of WAR/NINs bounced hate off of each other? In traditional parties, I always tried to invite THFs if I could. They helped the party go a lot smoother.
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#16 Jun 04 2013 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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benjjjamin wrote:
I think it would make a nice pairing with red mage as two simultaneously released soloing jobs, one mage, one meleer.
Incorporating it into raiding may be difficult. Thief's asset profile in FFXI was a lot of traits that raiding didn't really want. The concept of thief being a hate controller completely backfired on the job, and ended up being a reason to not invite thieves. Then if they have treasure hunter traits, square will make them pay for that somehow (lower dps again?) and there'll just be a token guild thief again.

It'd be nice if a thief could use combos to unlock steal abilities in fights, and have some raid bosses have an inventory of 3 or 4 stealable items. Doing a successful steal combo results in a final move with 100% chance to steal the item. So like for a bahamut fight, the thief would be dps'ing, and at the beginning of the raid steal a scale, beard, and finally a ring. Then at the end of each combo, instead of stealing, the thief would switch to massive spike damage abilities to bring their DPS up to the rest of the team. You could let like up to 2 thieves do it or something.

I dunno. I just don't want to see thief be hated by the population again.

I was kind of meaning this by my post too but you said it clearer. And loot abilities via thief need to have damage in conjunction so thief gets invites to different raids for actual combat and not just TH itself.
#17 Jun 04 2013 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Atkascha wrote:
How did the concept of THF being a hate controller backfire on the job? Do you mean in a merit setting where a bunch of WAR/NINs bounced hate off of each other? In traditional parties, I always tried to invite THFs if I could. They helped the party go a lot smoother.

I'm sure he didn't mean that the way you interpreted it. In standard encounters where monsters were not squishy, thief was great. For squishy things that died fast, inviting thief for hate control doesn't make sense.

It seems alot on here want a continuation of XI thief. I want to see jobs introduced differently. But hey, If I agree with you getting your FFXI Thief in XIV.
Let me have my single katana, magic wielding, ranged, dps powerhouse in Ninja ok!!
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Edited, Jun 4th 2013 3:49pm by sandpark
#18 Jun 04 2013 at 1:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Because this is an opinion thread about something not in the game, I'll say this: I've never been a fan of thieves in high dps roles; it just fit my idea of what a thief is. My preference would be to introduce thief as role that augments party play through weapon skill induced debuffs, but whose primary role is to make the player wealthy through combat and adventuring. This could be implemented through means such as thief-only chests in dungeons or equipment and items that can only be stolen by a thief. I'd hate to see thf introduced as just another dd that is par with any other dd in the game; I prefer to see thf as a unique role.
#19 Jun 04 2013 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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schneiderw wrote:
Because this is an opinion thread about something not in the game, I'll say this: I've never been a fan of thieves in high dps roles; it just fit my idea of what a thief is. My preference would be to introduce thief as role that augments party play through weapon skill induced debuffs, but whose primary role is to make the player wealthy through combat and adventuring. This could be implemented through means such as thief-only chests in dungeons or equipment and items that can only be stolen by a thief. I'd hate to see thf introduced as just another dd that is par with any other dd in the game; I prefer to see thf as a unique role.

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#20 Jun 04 2013 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Three things:

Mug
Steal
Treasure Hunter

All must have Final Fantasy Elements. Who else would get them besides a Thief?
#21 Jun 04 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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sandpark wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
Because this is an opinion thread about something not in the game, I'll say this: I've never been a fan of thieves in high dps roles; it just fit my idea of what a thief is. My preference would be to introduce thief as role that augments party play through weapon skill induced debuffs, but whose primary role is to make the player wealthy through combat and adventuring. This could be implemented through means such as thief-only chests in dungeons or equipment and items that can only be stolen by a thief. I'd hate to see thf introduced as just another dd that is par with any other dd in the game; I prefer to see thf as a unique role.

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I love you.


Awww shucks, you sure know how to make a guy feel special Smiley: grin
#22 Jun 04 2013 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
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Atkascha wrote:
How did the concept of THF being a hate controller backfire on the job? Do you mean in a merit setting where a bunch of WAR/NINs bounced hate off of each other? In traditional parties, I always tried to invite THFs if I could. They helped the party go a lot smoother.


The structure required to use a thief often had more downsides than positives, and its dps was not great. As a thief, I'm not going to pretend my warrior didn't make it look like it had nerf bats for weapons, and hate control was only necessary for struggling tanks. Ffxi thief had a very bad asset profile.

Were thief tactics elegant? Sure. Were they worth it? Almost never, no.

Its got to be more this time.
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#23 Jun 04 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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benjjjamin wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
How did the concept of THF being a hate controller backfire on the job? Do you mean in a merit setting where a bunch of WAR/NINs bounced hate off of each other? In traditional parties, I always tried to invite THFs if I could. They helped the party go a lot smoother.


The structure required to use a thief often had more downsides than positives, and its dps was not great. As a thief, I'm not going to pretend my warrior didn't make it look like it had nerf bats for weapons, and hate control was only necessary for struggling tanks. Ffxi thief had a very bad asset profile.

Were thief tactics elegant? Sure. Were they worth it? Almost never, no.

Its got to be more this time.


You might have never been in a two thf, two nin/dd /whm party then back in the day.

I admit there was a small window in FFXIs life where people simultaneously realized the burst damage and hate control of a well played, well geared THF. (Not to mention the pulling capability)

Sure DRKs could go crazy and have a higher DPS but aggro would be everywhere.

I never played in merit parties or later on in FFXIs life so I can't speak for THFs effectiveness or lack thereof in that regard.
#24 Jun 04 2013 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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EvilMadMike1982 wrote:
all of this possible inv and stealth, what about if they bring NIN along. I see that more getting the inv and stealth. Unless they have different levels in which each job gets it


I think you're in a FFXI train of thought. Ninja could still be very different. Ninja would use katanas, kunais, and throwing stars. It would have abilities involving poisons that add a DoT to their attacks. A short teleport to close gaps or an asura warp type ability for those SF fans out there. It could also retain the scroll magic from XI if they improve it's use. Ninja could also have some martial abilities borrowed from monk, such as kick attacks to stun enemies.

More than one class can have stealth in an MMO.
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#25 Jun 04 2013 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I would love to hear wints thoughts on this considering I believe he said he enjoyed thf at some point or other...
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#26 Jun 04 2013 at 11:25 PM Rating: Decent
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WFOAssassin wrote:
Three things:

Mug
Steal
Treasure Hunter

All must have Final Fantasy Elements. Who else would get them besides a Thief?



TH is an FF element? As much as I like the ability name ONE FF game (besides FFXI) where characters had an "increase drop rates" skill/ability
#27 Jun 05 2013 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
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Don't think Treasure Hunter will be needed in a game like XIV, though if any class were to get it, I suppose THF would be the one. Still, though... I don't see it as necessity.

I would like to see Steal and Mug, though. More of it then I saw in XI. 5 minute cooldown is too much. One of the perks of the THF class is farming additional items through steal, and in some cases rare items that can only be obtained through steal.

I liked the enmity balancing role they gave thief in XI, and I would like to see that improved and expanded on.
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#28 Jun 05 2013 at 8:37 AM Rating: Good
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DuoMaxwellxx wrote:
WFOAssassin wrote:
Three things:

Mug
Steal
Treasure Hunter

All must have Final Fantasy Elements. Who else would get them besides a Thief?



TH is an FF element? As much as I like the ability name ONE FF game (besides FFXI) where characters had an "increase drop rates" skill/ability


http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter_%28Ability%29

So yes, it does appear in quite a few Final Fantasies in one form or another. That said, I agree it's not a must have FF element.

#29 Jun 04 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think it would make a nice pairing with red mage as two simultaneously released soloing jobs, one mage, one meleer.
Incorporating it into raiding may be difficult. Thief's asset profile in FFXI was a lot of traits that raiding didn't really want. The concept of thief being a hate controller completely backfired on the job, and ended up being a reason to not invite thieves. Then if they have treasure hunter traits, square will make them pay for that somehow (lower dps again?) and there'll just be a token guild thief again.

It'd be nice if a thief could use combos to unlock steal abilities in fights, and have some raid bosses have an inventory of 3 or 4 stealable items. Doing a successful steal combo results in a final move with 100% chance to steal the item. So like for a bahamut fight, the thief would be dps'ing, and at the beginning of the raid steal a scale, beard, and finally a ring. Then at the end of each combo, instead of stealing, the thief would switch to massive spike damage abilities to bring their DPS up to the rest of the team. You could let like up to 2 thieves do it or something.

I dunno. I just don't want to see thief be hated by the population again.
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