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#1 Jun 05 2013 at 7:13 AM Rating: Decent
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So, after pre purchasing and with sone NDA lifting recently I finally found my way over to th Official SE FFXIV forums amd I'm pretty worried..

I am most concerned about Battle Mechanics as I know (read: hope) the story is awesome. Visually, the graphics look tailored to exactly what I'd expect and I can only imagine the music I a stellar.

The biggest complaint I see were the lack of variety in BM's and WHM's...People are complaining about the fact that it only makes sense to 'spam lightening' or to spam 'cure' A series of 1-3 keys that are going to wear quickly on your keyboard from abuse..

I know I'm likely being a drama queen here but it just seems to me that the Battle Mechanics are not being recieved well and in a big way. ..Because the graphics and story can be awesome but if it's boring gameplay it has zero chances (IMO)

What do you think?
#2 Jun 05 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Good
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From what I can tell, rebalancing the battle system has been one of the biggest focuses for the devs aside from server stress testing. If the game had already been released and this "spamming" problem was on-going, I'd understand your concerns. But it's not. These are the same complaints that people have been making for months now. Trust that the team has heard plenty of feedback about this and that they're working to address the issues.
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#3 Jun 05 2013 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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The only thing I will add to what Atkascha said is that as far as I can tell, there is still several aspects to the battle system that haven't even been implemented yet, such as limit breaks. They also mentioned that the next beta phase would see serious overhauls to combat, so I'm hopeful that these will alleviate a lot of peoples fears. We'll know for sure in less than 2 weeks! Smiley: grin
#4 Jun 05 2013 at 7:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Atkascha wrote:
From what I can tell, rebalancing the battle system has been one of the biggest focuses for the devs aside from server stress testing. If the game had already been released and this "spamming" problem was on-going, I'd understand your concerns. But it's not. These are the same complaints that people have been making for months now. Trust that the team has heard plenty of feedback about this and that they're working to address the issues.


Maybe I should have payed attention to the dates. . They were the first threads on the boards.

That's good to know though.
#5 Jun 05 2013 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I was gonna say, I don't think we've even been able to switch to a job in the beta yet.

I'm going to be as vague as possible here as not to break the NDA but from what I've seen as a tester they have a creative solution to the whole spamming one or two abilities thing to get you by. If you only spam one or two abilities the whole time you'll definately be gimping yourself.
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#6 Jun 05 2013 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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reptiletim wrote:
I was gonna say, I don't think we've even been able to switch to a job in the beta yet.

I'm going to be as vague as possible here as not to break the NDA but from what I've seen as a tester they have a creative solution to the whole spamming one or two abilities thing to get you by. If you only spam one or two abilities the whole time you'll definately be gimping yourself.


Very interesting, so some kind of diminishing return for single spell spam...Awesome

Thanks
#7 Jun 05 2013 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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Why did D&D last so long? Because there was never a ballooning "fps" fan base. Everyone keeps waiting for a "defining" moment in the genre. This IS the genre. Deal with it. **** margaritas.
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#8 Jun 05 2013 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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iontheable wrote:
So, after pre purchasing and with sone NDA lifting recently I finally found my way over to th Official SE FFXIV forums amd I'm pretty worried..

I am most concerned about Battle Mechanics as I know (read: hope) the story is awesome. Visually, the graphics look tailored to exactly what I'd expect and I can only imagine the music I a stellar.

The biggest complaint I see were the lack of variety in BM's and WHM's...People are complaining about the fact that it only makes sense to 'spam lightening' or to spam 'cure' A series of 1-3 keys that are going to wear quickly on your keyboard from abuse..

I know I'm likely being a drama queen here but it just seems to me that the Battle Mechanics are not being recieved well and in a big way. ..Because the graphics and story can be awesome but if it's boring gameplay it has zero chances (IMO)

What do you think?


Uhm, was there more NDA lifted? As far as I know, no one is allowed to talk about anything outside of Character Creation or Gridania. Meaning anyone talking about battle is breaking NDA or lying.
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#10 Jun 05 2013 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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Thats your opinion Ostia, but if i was to talk about it i would have a different opinion but alas there is an NDA in effect so i can't.
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#12 Jun 05 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
I was gonna say, I don't think we've even been able to switch to a job in the beta yet.

I'm going to be as vague as possible here as not to break the NDA but from what I've seen as a tester they have a creative solution to the whole spamming one or two abilities thing to get you by. If you only spam one or two abilities the whole time you'll definately be gimping yourself.



Not to mention that you'll never get anywhere near end game content with that play style.
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#13 Jun 05 2013 at 3:59 PM Rating: Good
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iontheable wrote:
What do you think?
I think it sounds just like every other Final Fantasy.
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#14 Jun 05 2013 at 4:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I seriously effing cannot wait for the end of next week. My blood is practically boiling right now.
#15 Jun 05 2013 at 7:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyrist wrote:

I seriously effing cannot wait for the end of next week. My blood is practically boiling right now.



Let it all out. Tell us why! Smiley: sly
#16 Jun 05 2013 at 7:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm mirroring the sentiment, myself. Next week in general I've been looking forward to for almost a year (E3). And then Phase 3 on the 14th. If I don't get an invite I'm just going to quietly seethe until open beta.
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#17 Jun 05 2013 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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Hatamaz wrote:
Hyrist wrote:

I seriously effing cannot wait for the end of next week. My blood is practically boiling right now.



Let it all out. Tell us why! Smiley: sly


That's easy. People are breaking NDA to say things that in order to reply, one would have to break the NDA themselves to refute or argue.

Aside from what's been covered by the Media (meaning what they've said, not talking about your impressions of the subjects they bring up.) You're not allowed to talk about anything aside from character creation, Old Gridania and New Gridania as zones.

If I recall, Phases 1 and 2 will both still be under NDA even after the NDA is lifted from phase 3. Which is probably the reason why it says "Partial NDA Lift" instead of full NDA lift on the timelines now.

Edited, Jun 5th 2013 9:36pm by Hyrist
#18Ostia, Posted: Jun 05 2013 at 7:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Which was a splendid move by SE!! Their PR did not drop the ball on that one Smiley: lol
#19 Jun 05 2013 at 9:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Here is how non-disclosure agreement will work in Beta Test phase 3:

Information will be free to post. Everything is open and you can post freely about any aspect of the beta test and your thoughts on it.

In regards to images and video in Beta Test phase 3:

You can post images of phase 3 (no images from Alpha, phase 1 or phase 2)
You cannot post audio or video.

We will be making a more detailed announcement before the start of Beta phase 3, but I wanted to share this general overview now.


Source.
#20 Jun 05 2013 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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iontheable wrote:
reptiletim wrote:
I was gonna say, I don't think we've even been able to switch to a job in the beta yet.

I'm going to be as vague as possible here as not to break the NDA but from what I've seen as a tester they have a creative solution to the whole spamming one or two abilities thing to get you by. If you only spam one or two abilities the whole time you'll definately be gimping yourself.


Very interesting, so some kind of diminishing return for single spell spam...Awesome

Thanks


A diminishing return system wouldn't be creative or awesome. it'd just replace 1,1,1,1 or 1,2,1,2... with 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4....

PSO2 is a terrible offender. Literally 1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,2... (where 1 is left click and 2 is right click) for the whole game.
#21 Jun 05 2013 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Hankshmi wrote:
Quote:
Here is how non-disclosure agreement will work in Beta Test phase 3:

Information will be free to post. Everything is open and you can post freely about any aspect of the beta test and your thoughts on it.

In regards to images and video in Beta Test phase 3:

You can post images of phase 3 (no images from Alpha, phase 1 or phase 2)
You cannot post audio or video.

We will be making a more detailed announcement before the start of Beta phase 3, but I wanted to share this general overview now.


Source.


Ah, good for the clarification.

Ostia, you're being antagonistic again. Rather than incite a fight with, I'm just going to honestly ask you to refrain from even mentioning the Beta for just one more week. Then we can have a field day arguing old information and debating on new info. Okay?

I'm having to grit my teeth through all of this, including keeping my lips shut several on flat out violations here that simply aren't true. So far I don't think I have a single mark against me when it comes to the NDA here. All that's left is one week. Can you match me that long?



Edited, Jun 5th 2013 11:29pm by Hyrist
#22 Jun 05 2013 at 10:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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Atkascha wrote:
I'm mirroring the sentiment, myself. Next week in general I've been looking forward to for almost a year (E3). And then Phase 3 on the 14th. If I don't get an invite I'm just going to quietly seethe until open beta.

As if you're not intimidating enough xP
#23 Jun 06 2013 at 12:29 AM Rating: Default
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Hyrist wrote:
Hankshmi wrote:
Quote:
Here is how non-disclosure agreement will work in Beta Test phase 3:

Information will be free to post. Everything is open and you can post freely about any aspect of the beta test and your thoughts on it.

In regards to images and video in Beta Test phase 3:

You can post images of phase 3 (no images from Alpha, phase 1 or phase 2)
You cannot post audio or video.

We will be making a more detailed announcement before the start of Beta phase 3, but I wanted to share this general overview now.


Source.


Ah, good for the clarification.

Ostia, you're being antagonistic again. Rather than incite a fight with, I'm just going to honestly ask you to refrain from even mentioning the Beta for just one more week. Then we can have a field day arguing old information and debating on new info. Okay?

I'm having to grit my teeth through all of this, including keeping my lips shut several on flat out violations here that simply aren't true. So far I don't think I have a single mark against me when it comes to the NDA here. All that's left is one week. Can you match me that long?
Edited, Jun 5th 2013 11:29pm by Hyrist


I praised SE.... how is that antagonistic ?
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#24 Jun 06 2013 at 2:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Am I the only one that isn't that excited about Limit Breaks? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but much like most great ideas that involve MMOs, people are going to Min/Max those ideas. Unless they give every Limit Break a unique and very specific use and then implement content that takes advantage of those uses equally I have a feeling we're only going to see two or three different Jobs using them in group content. In fact, I have a feeling that most end-game content Limit Breaks will wasted and saved up for the White Mage in case they need a mega-heal. It would be nice if perhaps your party could save up multiple Limit Breaks, sort of like SAM's 2hour and Weapon Skills. That way you could use them more liberally and still have one to hold back on for the WHM or PLD. That might lead to some interesting fight mechanics where certain Limit Breaks need to be used at a certain time or bad things start happening.

Maybe I'm underestimating what they have in store for us, but I know how people tend to end up doing things in MMOs, especially FFXI.
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#25 Jun 06 2013 at 2:58 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not really looking forward to them if everyone is able to pull them off unless everyone has to agree with a pop-up yes/no option or something. I can see people throwing one out straight away and people going mental because they all wanted to save it.
#26 Jun 06 2013 at 3:03 AM Rating: Decent
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I really do not care for Limit Brakes, i see them for what they are a gimmick to get FFVII fans all hard and Stuff. But as far as i have read, limit breaks will be based on party comp etc etc, i do not think we all get our own limit break, tho that brings the question of who then is the limit break boss, and do we all have to agree to use it ? will they be a specific combo the party must perform in order to unleash them ? Will they be spammable ?
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#27 Jun 06 2013 at 3:15 AM Rating: Good
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Those are some points I have been concerned with as well. About the only way I could see them being used effectively is if the party leader can choose who uses their Limit Breaks. If anyone can use theirs at any time I could see some serious issues in Pick Up Groups or Duty Finder Parties. And if everyone has to confirm the use of one, they would rarely be used at the right time (WHM and PLD especially, assuming they have a healing/invincible LB).

Edit: Bleh I'm out of it after work, can't even type the correct words.

Edited, Jun 6th 2013 5:16am by DamienSScott
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#28 Jun 06 2013 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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Aekotie the Fussy wrote:
Atkascha wrote:
I'm mirroring the sentiment, myself. Next week in general I've been looking forward to for almost a year (E3). And then Phase 3 on the 14th. If I don't get an invite I'm just going to quietly seethe until open beta.

As if you're not intimidating enough xP


I'll take that as a compliment...

As for Limit Breaks, I don't really care for them either. I'm hoping that they turn out to be useful and effective.
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#29 Jun 06 2013 at 7:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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On the ability spam issue, I'll just be vague again and say unless someone breaks the NDA everything is just assumptions right now. I personally like the system they have but others might think it's not creative or that it's stupid. Regardless it's safe to say you can't just spam the same ability over and over and still be doing your job.. at least in the later levels.
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#30 Jun 06 2013 at 12:58 PM Rating: Default
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No need for NDA breaks since limit breaks where not in Phase 1 or 2 or in Alpha, they will be in phase 3, and that will be open beta.
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#31 Jun 06 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
I really do not care for Limit Brakes, i see them for what they are a gimmick to get FFVII fans all hard and Stuff. But as far as i have read, limit breaks will be based on party comp etc etc, i do not think we all get our own limit break, tho that brings the question of who then is the limit break boss, and do we all have to agree to use it ? will they be a specific combo the party must perform in order to unleash them ? Will they be spammable ?


I would hate if they became like the equivalent of FF8 summons, i.e., normal combat is just something you do to kill time until you can summon again to win.

To make limit breaks something special, they really have to make them something you have to work for, something hard to build up to in combat, something skill-based.
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#32 Jun 06 2013 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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I can't hate or like something I haven't tried yet and it wasn't part of the planned scope for parts 1 or 2, that's public knowledge.

I'll all boil down to execution, as always. A shared meter adds a sort of depth to it. Depending on how quickly it will or will not be subject to min-maxing, and the best way to avoid that is simply don't party with elitist douchebags. Beyond that I'm sure there are going to be a few limit breaks that are going to be more or less help specific parts of the fight.

Is it a gimmick? Sure. In a pessimistic light, everything is a gimmick for your money. The question is, will the gimick work? Will it add more layers of tactics to the fight? And so on and so forth. That question can't be answered right now and speculation is always heavily influenced by one's personal bias.
#33 Jun 06 2013 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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Atkascha wrote:
From what I can tell, rebalancing the battle system has been one of the biggest focuses for the devs aside from server stress testing. If the game had already been released and this "spamming" problem was on-going, I'd understand your concerns. But it's not. These are the same complaints that people have been making for months now. Trust that the team has heard plenty of feedback about this and that they're working to address the issues.


Didn't they remove elemental weakness?
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#34 Jun 07 2013 at 6:19 PM Rating: Good
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What I find amazing (and I'm going to tread carefully here to avoid breach of NDA) is that as far as I am aware from publicly available information, Beta 1 and 2 hasn't included all of the jobs. I thought that it only included jobs based in Gridania.

I am therefore surprised that anyone could have any comments to make about the lack of variety for Blm and Whm. The suggestion that Blm's just spam lightning is interesting when no-one has actually played Blm yet (as it is based in Uldah).

No-one has played the final battle system yet, and yet people are sharpening the knives ready to attack regardless of whether it is any good or not. I appreciate it is fashionable to hate this game, **** I stopped posting on this forum about 2 years ago because of the pure hate - but let's give it a chance and actually play it before we start making sweeping statements about things we know nothing about.
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#35 Jun 07 2013 at 6:35 PM Rating: Default
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One would assume such people speak on the basis, that as every job that was in gradina, worked the same way, BLM would not be the exception.
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#36 Jun 07 2013 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
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"such people" wont be very good at this game I don't suppose so hopefully don't end up in my parties.
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#37 Jun 07 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Hardly! This game requires breathing in order to be good, now being Great! Is a discussion we can have once the NDA lifts.
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#38 Jun 07 2013 at 9:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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we will indeed.

/em strokes cat!
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#39 Jun 07 2013 at 10:00 PM Rating: Default
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Smiley: lol Touche!
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#40 Jun 08 2013 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
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HallieXIV wrote:
we will indeed.

/em strokes cat!


Smiley: eek
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#41 Jun 08 2013 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
HallieXIV wrote:
we will indeed.

/em strokes cat!


Smiley: eek


What have I walked into... Smiley: yikes
#42 Jun 08 2013 at 12:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'll get you next time Ostia, NEXT TIIIIIIIME!
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#43 Jun 08 2013 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
I'll get you next time Ostia, NEXT TIIIIIIIME!


That is exactly what i pictured Smiley: laugh

Somebody rate up this good man
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#44 Jun 08 2013 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, I'm hoping there are subjobs that you can aquire (like ff11) once you reach a certain level. And equipment that adds
to what you do.

I'd love to see Chaining - loved that in ff11, limit break... well I guess that will be ok.

So, I'm looking for a better version on FF11.

No agro big mobs? Awwww that was funny screaming like a baby running from Orcs or being chased by big trees. Or poisoned by shrooms and running to find someone that could heal you. Good times.

Darn, I'm chomping at the bit to play NOW. Haven't been invited to Beta. Waiting months to play is gonna tear me apart.

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#45 Jun 10 2013 at 8:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I love the Inspector Gadget references here.
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#46 Jun 11 2013 at 1:44 AM Rating: Good
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What I don't understand is how the karma system works on this site.

I crack a joke referencing Inspector Gadget and get rated down to default - other people step in and explain my joke and get rated up! I apologise if I was a little too subtle in the reference to stroking the cat but surely I can't be rated down when those explaining it go the other way.

I don't get it :-(
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#47 Jun 11 2013 at 2:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Don't let it get to you, some people miss use the karma system happens all the time.
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#48 Jun 11 2013 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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Baron Silas Greenback petting Nero the worm in Danger Mouse was even funnier.
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#49 Jun 11 2013 at 8:08 AM Rating: Good
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Catwho wrote:
Baron Silas Greenback petting Nero the worm in Danger Mouse was even funnier.


Rate up for Danger Mouse... because he's the greatest, he's fantastic, wherever there is danger he'll be there. Not sure why someone had rated you down for that. It's still one of my favorite TV theme songs to this day. Inspector Gadget is up there too.


Edited, Jun 11th 2013 10:11am by BartelX
#50 Jun 11 2013 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I always wanted the little computer book Penny had in Inspector Gadget. I guess that dates me at least.
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#51 Jun 11 2013 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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I always wanted the little built in hand-phone that inspector gadget had... in fact in elementary school I used to pretend I was Inspector Gadget and would bend a straw and pretend it was my secret phone. So that probably dates me as well. Smiley: lol
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