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New E3 Trailer.... of FFXIIIFollow

#52 Jun 07 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
Cloud was far from one-dimensional. He goes from young country kid in over his head, to cocky schizoid/Zack clone, to a hero that conquers his fears. Cloud's awesome, and will always be the face of Final Fantasy for me.

That said, Lightning's got nothing on Cloud. Although I always thought her name was cool.


Cloud is a failure, a character that needs 2 games, and a movie in order to finally become "Something" other than one dimensional, is quite sad indeed.

Terra did not need 2 games and a movie, nor did Cecil, or Zidane, Squall, Barts etc etc.

He is an overrated character, in an overrated game, with an overrated villain to match... FFVII was good do not get me wrong, but it was not THAT Good.


I think it really just depends on what point you started playing final fantasy. I for 1 started with 7 and it is my love child! lol. My very first RPG! So it has more value to me specialy when you add the nostalgia of it. This isn't always the case! But almost everyone I know that has played final fantasy rate 7 as the best.
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#53 Jun 07 2013 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
Cloud was far from one-dimensional. He goes from young country kid in over his head, to cocky schizoid/Zack clone, to a hero that conquers his fears. Cloud's awesome, and will always be the face of Final Fantasy for me.

That said, Lightning's got nothing on Cloud. Although I always thought her name was cool.


Exactly. Crisis Core transformed the polygons and text dialogue in FF7 into something that conveyed a realistic Cloud, who was more than just an emo "badass" silent protagonist that a lot of westerners say he was.

I've only played like the first quarter of XIII, but my understanding of Lightning is that while she probably has a more fleshed-out backstory, she's more just "emo badass" for the sake of being cool. And there's not much room to interpret the presentation of her character or give it the benefit of the doubt since the cinematic aspect is top notch. In reading, you have to do a bit of detective guesswork. I do think that's something that can be said about FF7--it came from a period of video games where your imagination and interpretation of the experience defined the game by necessity, whereas today that's a luxury that certain "avant games" can choose merely as an option.


Cloud was insane. He clung on to reality by pretending to be a person he wasn't. He wasn't Zack, He wasn't even qualified to be in SOLDIER. But that's how he presented himself. Of course, it all untangles eventually, and you get to see the real Cloud emerge, but you don't really know the guy until deep into the story. FFVII took a lot of risks, and having the protagonist chase the antagonist out of a madness that slowly becomes apparent really could have blown up the whole game, but they pulled it off. This is what makes FFVII great, it makes the circumstances in which Cloud found himself great, but it doesn't necessarily mean Cloud was a great character in and of himself.

However, Lightning is someone you can relate to a lot more. She's an orphan who raised he sister and did what she must to survive. She joined the military, which gave her the discipline to continue fighting in spite of becoming a fugitive. But she also came to realize that fighting was her way of running away from her painful feelings. That instead of having compassion for her sister when she got in trouble, she raged. And it's this "facing herself" where her character growth comes from. It's something anyone can understand much more than recovering from a fractured personality.

The tunnel motif is what gets people hung up about FFXIII even though it's inspired by "being pushed by circumstances beyond your control" a la Call of Duty (you know, what video game series customers buy like crack). But let's face it, the perpetual tunnel is also what they did for FFX, Yuna was by far the most wooden character out of all the ones who've been voice-acted, and Tidus the most grating, but that game turned out to be of a lost age of FF greatness while FFXIII was considered ****.

So, FFXIII was a "miss" as far as being fan favorite even though it was relying upon what should have been a sure thing. It happens. But I don't think it's fair to just dismiss a character outright because she was attached to something less than ideal. If you're going to simply compare Lightning to Cloud, I think you'll find that the writing for Lightning is a lot more convincing than for Cloud, while Cloud's writing takes more risks but inevitably creates a character that's more difficult to relate to because he turns out to be someone else entirely.
#54 Jun 07 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Default
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Ostia wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
Cloud was far from one-dimensional. He goes from young country kid in over his head, to cocky schizoid/Zack clone, to a hero that conquers his fears. Cloud's awesome, and will always be the face of Final Fantasy for me.

That said, Lightning's got nothing on Cloud. Although I always thought her name was cool.


Cloud is a failure, a character that needs 2 games, and a movie in order to finally become "Something" other than one dimensional, is quite sad indeed.

Terra did not need 2 games and a movie, nor did Cecil, or Zidane, Squall, Barts etc etc.

He is an overrated character, in an overrated game, with an overrated villain to match... FFVII was good do not get me wrong, but it was not THAT Good.


Let's not kid ourselves here--ALL early FF characters were limited by the medium (though at the same time, allowing our imaginations to fill in some of the gaps). Very few of the characters were really fleshed out--most of them were more plot device and party member than "person." Even in the other great FF's, this holds true. Cloud is a silent protagonist, yes, but he is well-defined by his context. He is an ordinary person in extraordinary circumstances. That is what makes a good character.

FFVII's biggest narrative problem was being generally challenging to follow (especially for its audience; who at large couldn't appreciate everything that was going on), and offering poor closure, but that's Japanese story-telling in general, as any anime enthusiast will tell you.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#55 Jun 07 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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IvanStine207 wrote:
That game had bad graphics so I stopped playing it after the first non cinematic scene. A game is nothing without good graphics which is why FF VII was sh*t.


Hahahaha!

On a side note: Why do some of you feel FFVII was overrated? FF-8 and 9 were both really good games, with better visuals to boot, and yet they still got lower ratings than VII. VII had amazing music, environmental, and story elements I think. 6 and 9 were my favorites personally, but 7 and 8 weren't far behind in my opinion. Is it the fanboy thing that makes you hate it so much? Does it become a personal thing to you as a result? I'm just wondering because the character you find so one dimensional wasn't the whole game or story at all.

Edited, Jun 7th 2013 6:59pm by Transmigration
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#56 Jun 07 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Cloud is a silent protagonist,
Smiley: dubious
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#57 Jun 07 2013 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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Smiley: rolleyes
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#58 Jun 07 2013 at 5:53 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I hope they execute whoever was behind this 3 games after this is over.... Please do not let him create more FF! Not with out Ito!


Motomu and Kitase, whom also worked on the FF games you continually stated is the best. Direct your misguided hate elsewhere.


Misguided ? I am fully aware of who created XIII, Toriyama wrote it...Which is 90% of the problem, he is an awful writer, you only have to play XIII-XIII2 to realize how horrible he is... As for kitase, sure he worked on VI, but as i have always stated, he does exceptional work only when paired with Ito.

Seriously look at Motomu resume... 2 ok games... A bunch of failures. 3rd birthday... Such splendid scrip Smiley: lol Oh Front Mission evolved... Such such great gem Smiley: lol

The best thing he has in that resume is being special thanked in Type-0 Which btw is the best final fantasy game, second to VI.


For once, I agree with Ostia. Yoshinori Kitase likes good storytelling, Hiroyuki Ito gets the critically acclaimed FFs for their gameplay. They need to team up again and make a new FF that mashes the two together or you'll keep getting FFs with great story and no gameplay (Kitase - XIII) or great gameplay with no story (Ito - XII).


I think Ito is the best director/game designer on their staff currently. MInagawa is a good compliment to Ito. I think Kitase is a great producer. He knows what makes a game shiny. SE has a motherload of good artist and cgi creators. SE hires exceptional voice actors. They need to go out and hire world class writers. And make a game with that staff. FFXV is the FF I am hoping to be a step in that direction.
#59 Jun 07 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
Ostia wrote:
BrokenFox wrote:
Cloud was far from one-dimensional. He goes from young country kid in over his head, to cocky schizoid/Zack clone, to a hero that conquers his fears. Cloud's awesome, and will always be the face of Final Fantasy for me.

That said, Lightning's got nothing on Cloud. Although I always thought her name was cool.


Cloud is a failure, a character that needs 2 games, and a movie in order to finally become "Something" other than one dimensional, is quite sad indeed.

Terra did not need 2 games and a movie, nor did Cecil, or Zidane, Squall, Barts etc etc.

He is an overrated character, in an overrated game, with an overrated villain to match... FFVII was good do not get me wrong, but it was not THAT Good.


Let's not kid ourselves here--ALL early FF characters were limited by the medium (though at the same time, allowing our imaginations to fill in some of the gaps). Very few of the characters were really fleshed out--most of them were more plot device and party member than "person." Even in the other great FF's, this holds true. Cloud is a silent protagonist, yes, but he is well-defined by his context. He is an ordinary person in extraordinary circumstances. That is what makes a good character.

FFVII's biggest narrative problem was being generally challenging to follow (especially for its audience; who at large couldn't appreciate everything that was going on), and offering poor closure, but that's Japanese story-telling in general, as any anime enthusiast will tell you.


Smiley: lol Please do allow me to laugh at the joke of Cloud being a silent protagonist Smiley: lol

Limited by the medium ? Oh such a cheap excuse kachi, i know you can do far better than that if you really wanted too, Cecil was far more limited than cloud was by medium... Yet he has 100X more character than cloud, what about Rydia ?Edge ? Kain ? What about Terra ? Locke ? Shadow ? Edgard ? Sabin ? All far more confined by medium than cloud ever was... yet all far more developed characters than he could ever dream to be in VII....

Oh and Chrono is a silent protagonist, Ryu is a silent protagonist... Cloud was far from silent Smiley: lol

Oh and yeah to the person that said cloud was crazy... Nah!
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#60 Jun 07 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
Oh and yeah to the person that said cloud was crazy... Nah!


At the start of FF7 Cloud was so traumatized (and poisoned by mako) by Zack's death that he deluded himself to the point of believing the past of another man was his own. He eventually regained his sanity but he was definitely out of his mind for the first half of the game.

Edited, Jun 7th 2013 9:09pm by BrokenFox
#61 Jun 07 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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I guess people enjoying FFVII really struck some nerd chord for some of you. A game or even a movie is an experience that differs for everyone. It's really sad that your opinions drive you to put other people and the games they love down for the sake of satiating your hatred. It reminds me of the Star Wars crowd and how they treat a kid who grew up with Episode 1 as his first movie in the series. It's a bit pathetic, really.
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#62 Jun 07 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Default
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He was not out of his mind, **** bat crazy or any of the sort, he was traumatized by the experiment hojo performed on him, that is why he was in a comatose state up until zack died after they got captured in nibelhelm, when he came to his senses, he did not had one idea of who he was, and here was his dying protector telling him, "You are my living legacy, live for both of us, now grab this big *** sword and go live it up to my name" and he went out and just did that.

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#63 Jun 07 2013 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: Somehow missed an entire page here.

Edited, Jun 7th 2013 9:26pm by Catwho
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#64 Jun 07 2013 at 7:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
He was not out of his mind, sh*t bat crazy or any of the sort, he was traumatized by the experiment hojo performed on him, that is why he was in a comatose state up until zack died after they got captured in nibelhelm, when he came to his senses, he did not had one idea of who he was, and here was his dying protector telling him, "You are my living legacy, live for both of us, now grab this big *** sword and go live it up to my name" and he went out and just did that.



Haha, Hojo should be a character in XIV at some point. A version of him anyway.
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#65 Jun 07 2013 at 7:40 PM Rating: Default
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Transmigration wrote:
I guess people enjoying FFVII really struck some nerd chord for some of you. A game or even a movie is an experience that differs for everyone. It's really sad that your opinions drive you to put other people and the games they love down for the sake of satiating your hatred. It reminds me of the Star Wars crowd and how they treat a kid who grew up with Episode 1 as his first movie in the series. It's a bit pathetic, really.


Well seeing as the only post that i could find where people are being talked down in this thread is yours.... Well! I am guessing your are the sort of person, that sees any difference in opinion as "Hatred" i do not seem to recall anybody around this thread using the word "Hate" or calling people names or such for their "Love" or whatever positive word you want to use for their likeness of FFVII.

You should get off your high horse more often, being narrow minded is not a good attribute Smiley: lol
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#66 Jun 07 2013 at 7:44 PM Rating: Good
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ok
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#67 Jun 07 2013 at 7:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Let me be clearer, i want no misunderstandings, i don't believe we are having a hate versus love argument, we are having a healthy debate on what we liked or disliked about a video game, as you have noticed, each side has pointed out stuff, that most people would agree too, i myself found cloud to be lacking in the main character part, when compared to previous main characters, that does not make me a hater or anything of the sort, i enjoyed FFVII a great deal, i liked sephiroth, and aerith, the gameplay in VII was splendid also, i just do not like this notion and i am not speaking about you specifically but others as well, that if you do not like or enjoy something and you question it, you are automatically a hater or out to degrade or insult people.

I love Rpg's i have played them all, more than once, i enjoy having discussions about them, and to learn what each person understood or took from the story, but if you for example liked VII above all else in the series, i would not call you an idiot or insult you, i would say that you have a different taste than i do in RPG's.
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#68 Jun 07 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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When you say things like, "You can do better than that," it conveys the message that you think we're having a debate/argument, and that you're winning it, no less. I do not "debate" about video games. I have discussions, because that's what adults do.

Let me be clear: you debate like a child (I'm not calling you a child; I'm drawing a genuine comparison), and I do not consider you my equal in discussion. And whether you were 100% right in your arguments or 100% wrong, I don't respect what you have to say on the subject because of the way you say it.

Bearing in mind that my background is in education, so this isn't coming from a sense of superiority. Telling childish people (re: children) that I expect better of them from a place of authority is just a vital skill for dealing with petulance. That's how I see you, so that's how I'll treat you.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#69 Jun 07 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fair enough, I wasn't singling you out anyway. People around here obviously have strong opinions and as I said earlier, VII wasn't my favorite either. This isn't the first time on these forums someone said they loved FFVII and people responded with why it wasn't as good as they feel it was. It happens all of the time. It really does seem to be the Ep.1 of the FF series as far as the fans are concerned.
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#70 Jun 07 2013 at 8:51 PM Rating: Default
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Kachi wrote:
When you say things like, "You can do better than that," it conveys the message that you think we're having a debate/argument, and that you're winning it, no less. I do not "debate" about video games. I have discussions, because that's what adults do.

Let me be clear: you debate like a child (I'm not calling you a child; I'm drawing a genuine comparison), and I do not consider you my equal in discussion. And whether you were 100% right in your arguments or 100% wrong, I don't respect what you have to say on the subject because of the way you say it.

Bearing in mind that my background is in education, so this isn't coming from a sense of superiority. Telling childish people (re: children) that I expect better of them from a place of authority is just a vital skill for dealing with petulance. That's how I see you, so that's how I'll treat you.


When i say you can do better than that, is because i believe you can do better than that, what you interpret is not my problem, nor is how you decided to read such message, that after all is up to your mind.

As for debates wins/loses and whatever else you threw in there, well do not confuse me with another poster, i do not discuss or debate which ever word you prefer most, in order to win or lose, such notions are a waste of time in an internet forum, as for your personal resume or your life story... Please do spare me the details, i am far from interested on your personal life or achievements, i do whoever am far more interested in your notion that Cloud Strife was a silent Protagonist! That is far more interesting to Me.

Now can we get on with It ? Or do you feel the need to tell me more irrelevant things about Yourself ?
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#71 Jun 07 2013 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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Oh lord..
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#72 Jun 07 2013 at 9:19 PM Rating: Default
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I mainly feel the need to send you to the principal's office and call your mother.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#73 Jun 07 2013 at 9:32 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
FFVII's biggest narrative problem was being generally challenging to follow (especially for its audience; who at large couldn't appreciate everything that was going on), and offering poor closure, but that's Japanese story-telling in general, as any anime enthusiast will tell you.


Agreed, having watched a ridiculous amount of anime in my lifetime. At the end of VII I vividly remember turning to my GF (at the time) and saying "WTF?! That was it?"
#74 Jun 08 2013 at 5:33 AM Rating: Decent
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People love to hate VII, it's the new cool thing to do.

But please don't compare VII to XIII because VII is on a completely different level.As far i'm concerned XIII doesn't make any sense, the game has no clear direction, the characters don't act like real human beings; rather actors is a terrible sitcom [days of our lives] and the combat is flashy at best with no real depth.

the game is just bad, from start to finish.


Also, I cannot believe some could be so narrow minded as to say that without good graphics a game is worthless; to that person I present my middle finger and a copy of IX.

Edited, Jun 8th 2013 7:37am by chrisatron
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#75 Jun 08 2013 at 9:39 AM Rating: Default
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Excuse my troll joke about the graphics and thank you for the talking point in regards to it. Also,I don't really care about Cloud.
#76IvanStine207, Posted: Jun 08 2013 at 9:41 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Lol your an idiot who fell for that trolling, graphics are just nice features in the game.
#77IvanStine207, Posted: Jun 08 2013 at 9:48 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Don't take the statement so seriously, helps you prevent butthurt, if you you payed attention or at least read all the comments, that was part of the trolling.
#78IvanStine207, Posted: Jun 08 2013 at 9:54 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) FF VII fanboys are the reasons I joke and bash this game. I'm just stirring the pot of this nonsense and totally subjective/opinionated debate.
#79 Jun 08 2013 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Quote:
FFVII's biggest narrative problem was being generally challenging to follow (especially for its audience; who at large couldn't appreciate everything that was going on), and offering poor closure, but that's Japanese story-telling in general, as any anime enthusiast will tell you.


Agreed, having watched a ridiculous amount of anime in my lifetime. At the end of VII I vividly remember turning to my GF (at the time) and saying "WTF?! That was it?"


To be honest, that was my and my fiancee reaction when I 100% completed XIII-2 and we saw the "perfect" ending....

Then one minute after, I realize : So that's why they are announcing downloading content...

The bad part is...these didn't make the ending better whatsoever...

Then again...the ending couldn't be good, they were announcing what was gonna happen since the last half of the game.

At least on FFVII, you had the chance to wonder what really happened. Even if it was a "WTF!" moment.

I do like this post on Gamespot about "weird endings".

EDIT : My grammar is pretty bad today.

Edited, Jun 8th 2013 12:07pm by MisterRandy

Edited, Jun 8th 2013 12:08pm by MisterRandy
#80 Jun 08 2013 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Its not a FF game, but I think one of the endings in a game I was most miffed at was Soul Reaver. Fabulous game in both gameplay and story, and the ending isnt so bad now that we have the sequals. At the time though, it was literally like a man coming on screen and saying "Buy Soul Reaver 2!", and we had a 2 year waiting for said sequal.
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#81 Jun 10 2013 at 9:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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New demo video of gameplay:

#82 Jun 10 2013 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Looks good! I hope it's better than the last 2 lol
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#83 Jun 11 2013 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/11/the-fantastic-combat-of-lightning-returns-final-fantasy-13
Here is an article on the combat of XIII-3.
This employee sites it to be the most refreshing & entertaining rpg combat he has seen in years.
#84 Jun 13 2013 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Looks Great!
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