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#77 Jun 10 2013 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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I don't care too much about being watched because Im not doing anything wrong...at least not on the level that would make the CIA take notice. People tend to overestimate the importance of their daily humdrum activities in the eyes of the government. Collecting data and being watched are two vastly different concepts. The former implies a data collector somewhere storing info and, if ever needed that data can be used to convict a criminal. Boston was a good example. If those cameras weren't running, being taped to be reviewed later, we wouldn't have caught that jackass. The latter implies a person or group of persons sitting and watching our every move for mistakes. Sorry guys, we aren't as important as we flatter ourselves into believing.

But to play Devil's Advocate, we the people allow any degree of this to happen by choosing to use the services being monitored. Don't like it? Band together and boycott the services until monitoring policies are reversed. Even though we know we are being monitored this will still never happen. Why ? Because we can't live without technology for 24 hours. To me, that is the more scary scenario.

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 11:48am by electromagnet83
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#78 Jun 10 2013 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't care too much about being watched because Im not doing anything wrong...at least not on the level that would make the CIA take notice. People tend to overestimate the importance of their daily humdrum activities in the eyes of the government. Collecting data and being watched are two vastly different concepts. The former implies a data collector somewhere storing info and, if ever needed that data can be used to convict a criminal. Boston was a good example. If those cameras weren't running, being taped to be reviewed later, we wouldn't have caught that jackass. The latter implies a person or group of persons sitting and watching our every move for mistakes. Sorry guys, we aren't as important as we flatter ourselves into believing.

But to play Devil's Advocate, we the people allow any degree of this to happen by choosing to use the services being monitored. Don't like it? Band together and boycott the services until monitoring policies are reversed. Even though we know we are being monitored this will still never happen. Why ? Because we can't live without technology for 24 hours. To me, that is the more scary scenario.


Everything you said.

Anyone who puts information on Facebook or in forums shouldn't really be shocked about anyone collecting their info. Anyone who who pirates movies, music, applications, games, etc., shouldn't be shocked about other entities using the same sliding scale of morality to make us more safe. It's a somewhat frightening world we live in, but honestly, I'm a lot more afraid of groups like Anonymous than I am our government. In fact, I am not scared of our government.
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#79 Jun 10 2013 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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Always be not afraid but wary of every government.Whoever has power is in danger in being corrupted anyone that fully trusts their government (and i mean any government) is naive at the very least.

But i do agree with you when you say about forums and facebook. I mean the info is right there for their taking its your/our fault since we are the ones to put it there.
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#80 Jun 10 2013 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Thayos wrote:
It's a somewhat frightening world we live in, but honestly, I'm a lot more afraid of groups like Anonymous than I am our government. In fact, I am not scared of our government.


Then you're very naive. I don't mean that to be rude, it's just how I honestly feel. I'm not going to start a whole political debate because politics and gaming forums shouldn't be intertwined. All I know is, when this country finally goes to crap and the people revolt (and to me, it's a when and not an if), I'll be prepared. The moment you feel safe and secure with the government and no longer fear it is the moment they can control you like sheep...

...maybe I just read too many dystopian books.

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 12:29pm by BartelX
#81 Jun 10 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Thayos wrote:
It's a somewhat frightening world we live in, but honestly, I'm a lot more afraid of groups like Anonymous than I am our government. In fact, I am not scared of our government.


Then you're very naive. I don't mean that to be rude, it's just how I honestly feel. I'm not going to start a whole political debate because politics and gaming forums shouldn't be intertwined. All I know is, when this country finally goes to crap and the people revolt (and to me, it's a when and not an if), I'll be prepared. The moment you feel safe and secure with the government and no longer fear it is the moment they can control you like sheep...

...maybe I just read too many dystopian books.

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 12:29pm by BartelX


Unfortunately the thing many people forget is that laws and policies are made reactively. We are being watched because on the large scale we are idiots. We have seatbelt laws to protect retards who won't otherwise use the bare minimum safety to prevent death. We have gun laws because of the peoples' misuse of them. A few ruin it for the many. Don't blame the government. Blame yourself, your neighbor, me, etc. When something happens the government intervene and if they don't then we complain about that too. If the country goes to crap its because we are stupidly revolting against rules put in place because of our initial stupidity.

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 12:35pm by electromagnet83
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#82 Jun 10 2013 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
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I think the Kinect conspiracy is silly but I can't agree with someone willing to give up their privacy because they have nothing to hide...this is how our liberties are taken away.
#83 Jun 10 2013 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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I know a few people in Anonymous and for the most part they're regular guys (albeit a bit weird) with wives and kids. 4channers all grown up. It's hard to be scared of them.

I'm also personally not worried about being monitored by the Big Internet guys, since Google thinks I'm a 24 year old single male. The volume of data generated by 300 million Americans surfing the tubes is staggering, and there's no way in **** all the data can be monitored in firehose format. It's embittering that the NSA feels they can just give the big IT folks the finger and say "nuh uh you HAVE to give us the info BECAUSE FREEDOM" but that kind of behavior can be stopped with future legislation if it ****** enough people off. Which, it seems, it hasn't.

Remember, 75% of Internet traffic is from NetFlix. Yeah, there's a lot of fascinating meta data in there, I'm sure.
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#84 Jun 10 2013 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
Awww ya, Killer Instinct...about time. Still not worth the purchase of this machine though.
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#85 Jun 10 2013 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately the thing many people forget is that laws and policies are made reactively.


And unfortunately, all too often the laws and policies they put in place are overreactions. For instance, the incredible amount of gun legislation that passed through within weeks of the school shooting. Some of it was needed, much of it looked a lot more like martial law than simple situational reaction. But like I said, politics and gaming forums aren't a good combo because everyones views of government are different, and there is no one right or wrong way to feel about it. Like I said, I just know I'm prepared for when the worst happens. If I'm wrong and it doesn't, well... it's one of the few times I'll be very happy about being wrong.
#86 Jun 10 2013 at 12:03 PM Rating: Good
Well, looks like if you're into shooters, XBOX one is the way to go!
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#87 Jun 10 2013 at 12:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't care too much about being watched because Im not doing anything wrong...

Everybody is doing something wrong. And even if the current government does not abuse its power (which definitely it already does, there was active and selective espionage on opposition representatives only a few weeks ago... man, the American public is forgetful...), I would never give such power to anyone, simply because it can so easily be abused. Uncontrolled power always, without a single exception, always corrupts. Because humans crave power and dominance by nature. And nobody controls an agency which works in absolute secrecy; especially not a special court that is directly appointed by the government they are supposed to control.

I think it is very, very scary how the NSA eludes public control and the laws the people have decided - and voted - to live by. There's little democracy in a system where public votes only determine "official" surface law, but not the rules that actually govern the interection between all members of society (including officials, the rich, and the powerful). But perhaps I've been living in Europe for too long, and not long enough in the US to understand that mindset.

How scared to the bones must a society be to accept constant surveilance just for the faint possibility to catch one or two terrorists. In my playbook, this is nothing but a resounding victory for Al Kaeda. Liberty is not destroyed by bombs or crashed planes; but by the creeping poison of fear that takes possession of free people's hearts and minds.


#88 Jun 10 2013 at 12:18 PM Rating: Default
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I'm very underwhelmed with the new Xbox's conference. I was excited about literally nothing that they showed. That speaks volumes considering this is a new console!
#89 Jun 10 2013 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Like I said, I just know I'm prepared for when the worst happens.
A pistol and a single bullet?
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#90 Jun 10 2013 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
[quote]
How scared to the bones must a society be to accept constant surveilance just for the faint possibility to catch one or two terrorists. In my playbook, this is nothing but a resounding victory for Al Kaeda. Liberty is not destroyed by bombs or crashed planes; but by the creeping poison of fear that takes possession of free people's hearts and minds.




That's actually not a bad point. However, like I said being actively "watched" and having things recorded for future reference are vastly different. I'm not scared to live life, but I would like to know that if something happens there is a record of it so that we can easily catch the person who did. I know we're trampling on liberty and yada yada yada. But sometimes that seems like "this is amurica" kind of attitude and doesn't help the problem.

And on BartelX's point.....I'll move on from the topic in light of the slow leak of E3 info that is starting to show itself.
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#91 Jun 10 2013 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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man there really trying to pinch every penny out of us now. Not being able to lend games to friends is beyond my comprehension. If I was going to buy the game i wouldn't be borrowing it from a friend. Not only this, but being lent a game might actually make me buy it if i liked it enough. My friend lent me fallout 3 and being the way i am, purchased all the DLC for it for completion. For a game that wasn't even mine.

The persistent online is also a let down. Sure i have unlimited upload/download, but what about the people who don't? If the xbox is always updating things people may go over their internet usage because of this. Not only that, but giving us a time limit that i am allowed to play offline? Thats absurd.

It's just unfortunate that PC is the least popular (for the cost, i know) and doesn't have nearly the amount of games on it that consoles do. At least the GOOD games on consoles also get made for PC a lot of the time. Have to wait and see what sony does. I just hope my friends don't all get xbox's then i would be left out being the only one with a ps4 Smiley: frown
#92 Jun 10 2013 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Like I said, I just know I'm prepared for when the worst happens.
A pistol and a single bullet?


Don't own a gun myself. More of a sword guy... go figure, a fantasy nerd on a forum who is into swords. Could I be any more of a stereotype? I have friends with anything else I might need, as long as I can get to them. Thank goodness for wilderness survival skills, I knew the boy scouts would be useful for something! (And now the stereotype is complete) Smiley: lol

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 2:54pm by BartelX
#93 Jun 10 2013 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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NO XD my tv can do the same for a fraction of the price xD Xbox One is like the retarded ******* child of consoles.

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 3:22pm by abesut
#94 Jun 10 2013 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
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$499 for the Xbox One, huh? I'm anxious to see Sony's game plan with the release date and price for the PS4. None of the Xbox games appealed to me during the conference. 6:00pm PST needs to get here faster.
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#95 Jun 10 2013 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Atkascha wrote:
$499 for the Xbox One, huh? I'm anxious to see Sony's game plan with the release date and price for the PS4. None of the Xbox games appealed to me during the conference. 6:00pm PST needs to get here faster.


I think 500 is too much as well. I also didn't get too pumped about what they showed games wise either and the DRM was leaning me away from it already. All that added together equals no XBone for me.

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 12:41pm by LebargeX
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#96 Jun 10 2013 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Then you're very naive. I don't mean that to be rude, it's just how I honestly feel. I'm not going to start a whole political debate because politics and gaming forums shouldn't be intertwined. All I know is, when this country finally goes to crap and the people revolt (and to me, it's a when and not an if), I'll be prepared. The moment you feel safe and secure with the government and no longer fear it is the moment they can control you like sheep...


No need to have a political debate. I just don't feel threatened by our government. I think the IRS spending millions on employee seminar/dance parties does more actual harm than the government storing data. Quite simply, I just don't live with fear over what the government does. Most people in our government are just people, and we elect the most powerful government officials.

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Unfortunately the thing many people forget is that laws and policies are made reactively. We are being watched because on the large scale we are idiots. We have seatbelt laws to protect retards who won't otherwise use the bare minimum safety to prevent death. We have gun laws because of the peoples' misuse of them. A few ruin it for the many. Don't blame the government. Blame yourself, your neighbor, me, etc. When something happens the government intervene and if they don't then we complain about that too. If the country goes to crap its because we are stupidly revolting against rules put in place because of our initial stupidity.


Yep. Even the government mining server data is a result of idiots overreacting to terrorism.

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How scared to the bones must a society be to accept constant surveilance just for the faint possibility to catch one or two terrorists. In my playbook, this is nothing but a resounding victory for Al Kaeda. Liberty is not destroyed by bombs or crashed planes; but by the creeping poison of fear that takes possession of free people's hearts and minds.


How scared to the bones must people be to have such paralyzing fear over their own government, while our standards of living and personal freedoms are among the best in the world?

Doesn't matter which "side" you're on, either. Heck, I'm not shy in saying I think George W. was a complete idiot... but to say he was evil, or trying to take over the country, is just moronic. He was just a dude from Texas, and he did the best he could.

If this is -seriously- an important issue, then people need to mobilize and make candidates answer for this come election time. They need to demand a "drawn down" toward Internet privacy just as loudly as they'd push their stance on any other hot-button issue. Until that happens, all of this shock is just hot air.
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#97 Jun 10 2013 at 2:50 PM Rating: Default
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/golf clap @ Thayos.

Either resolve frustrations and fears through protest, debate, and election or get over it. Simply pointing out that our privacy is being invaded but doing nothing active to reverse it shows that even those complaining don't care too much...at least not enough to actually put forth the effort for change. The government's role should mostly be financial and trade related. It's not the government that's the problem however, it is all the people worrying too much about whether or not the government is infringing on this right, or that constitution, or whether or not the government is being helpful enough to this group or that group. Meanwhile we keep looking to the government to solve problems that we should ultimately be able to solve ourselves by simply being responsible adults, giving them more and more power to invade our lives.
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#98 Jun 10 2013 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thayos wrote:
How scared to the bones must people be to have such paralyzing fear over their own government, while our standards of living and personal freedoms are among the best in the world?


I suppose I should have clarified better. I agree with you that people who are outright terrified of the government are misguided. What I meant by my comment was to not fear your government at all is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. Having a little bit of fear for the pretty egregious power a select few politicians hold is a healthy thing to me.

Now, we could get into a philosophical debate on the problems of an overreaching government, or the socioeconomic effects of allowing big business and government to be so closely tied, but it's something best saved for PMs or a different type of forum altogether if you ask me.
#99 Jun 10 2013 at 4:25 PM Rating: Good
Never did enjoy the original Xbox, Xbox 360 nor will I enjoy the upcoming Xbox One. So no, I'm not interested in the new Xbox One.

It's kind of hard not to laugh at the Xbox fan boys sometimes, considering:

1. Xbox 360 was prematurely released to fight PS3 for market share. MS knowingly sold defective hardware to the public. I mean, how many times have your Xbox 360 went 3 red rings of death? My friend's machine went through 4 RMA's in a span of 1 and a half year.

2. Knowing that this is a severe problem, they had the audacity to release a revised version called "Xbox Slim". I mean... that's like saying.. "Oh oopps sorry we f*ed up on the first 360 we made you pay full price for, so we went back and fixed everything we were supposed to have done so initially. Please pay another full price purchase for a system that we originally meant to release." The scary part is how many suckers actually bought the SLIM version afterwards.

3. Almost every single Xbox 360 games were labelled 1080p as resolution in the back of the retail box. Almost every PS3 games is labelled 720p in the back of the box, other than some blockbuster titles like MGS, God of War and etc. they were labelled 1080p but a lot of PS3 games are 720p. So after a bit of research, you find that the Xbox 360 games are "Upscaled" 1080p, they are not true 1080p. So to me, that's like MS trying to trick the consumers into thinking that Xbox 360 actually produces better graphical performance than PS3, which is a blatant lie. This is why when you pick up a game for PS3, it says 720p in the back, it's true 720p. When you pick up the very same game title for Xbox 360, it says 1080p in the back of the box, when you scratch your head and wonder why, know that it is an "Upscaled" measurement.

4. Xbox Live! - Oh boy, I don't even know where to start with this. I buy Resident Evil 5 on PS3, I pop in the disk and I play online with my friends. I buy the same game on Xbox 360, in order for me to play with friends online, I'll need to pay another $60 annual fee. To pour more fuel on fire, if I ever decide to play a MMO, I'd be looking at 2 fees instead of just 1.

Having said that, here's a few rumors I've heard so far about the upcoming Xbox One:

1. Still need Xbox Live to play online.

2. Can't let your friends borrow your games. Can only do a one time transfer of ownership from one user to another.

3. Kiss goodbye to console/game trade-in's, unless it's under Microsoft's rules and policies and most likely, pricing.

4. Oh and get this, I've just heard the rumor recently that the console machine itself, cannot operate "off-line" for more than 1 hour time. Meaning, your Xbox One console has to have a live connection to the internet and most likely, logged into your Xbox Live account. If it is not connected to network, the machine will operate for a maximum of one hour before shutting itself down.

Now these are rumors I've heard, of course not certain if all of these are facts right now but goodness sake, if any of this is remotely true then MS is truly shooting themselves in the foot here.
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#100 Jun 10 2013 at 4:33 PM Rating: Default
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So agreed to curb this discussion here? Agreed.
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#101 Jun 10 2013 at 5:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Disagreed on the surveillance side:

http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=624

http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=28078
http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=20886

Agreed on the xbox side: It sucks!

Edited, Jun 10th 2013 7:09pm by burtonsnow
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