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How do you think PS3 players will communicate in ARR?Follow

#1 Jun 08 2013 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
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Hey there,

Since action Phase 3 is only a few days away, I'd like some input from people knowing more about these matters than I do:

ARR seems set to take a decent stab at PC / PS3 (PS4 in the future, perhaps) cross-platform gaming. Now, I know that XI back in the day had indeed launched for PS2, but I never played it on a console, indeed, the few months I spent on it were on my trusty PC.

So, an honest question: How do you think people playing from their PS3 will communicate with PC people? I mean, there are a couple of possibilities here:

For "guild" (Free Company?) gaming, I would expect people to have access to chatting and / or voice comms through some way or another.

For "Duty Finder" or other random grouping, some chatting would be in order. Even when merely grouping in a random group, small chit-chat and short instructions are meant to be relayed. Think about what happens for a dungeon boss, they might have certain abilities or need special care to be defeated.

Now, my understanding is that in PS3 (I don't own one) voice comms are directly available only if the game played supports them in-game.

Is this correct?

If yes, then how do you suppose people will communicate in ARR, if playing from a PS3? Use a keyboard? Speak (when needed) through an external service? Something else?

Curiosity killed the cat, but... meow. I had been wondering on how this would work out, since I definitely do not expect anyone with a PS3 to... type using some virtual keyboard and their controllers. That'd be just nasty.

Thoughts? Smiley: cool
#2 Jun 08 2013 at 5:43 PM Rating: Decent
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just like FFXI was played on PS2... no voice chat.. keyboard only (or you could use the gamepad to select buttons on the on screen keyboard but that would be stupidly slow lol)
#3 Jun 08 2013 at 5:51 PM Rating: Good
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If yes, then how do you suppose people will communicate in ARR, if playing from a PS3? Use a keyboard? Speak (when needed) through an external service?


Yeah, pretty much like that.

I imagine there will be some kind of software keyboard like there was for the PS2 version of FFXI, I also expect no one to actually use it and instead to just use the USB ports on the front of the PS3 to connect a keyboard.
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#4 Jun 08 2013 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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They'll make do. There are far too many options. You can use laptops, cellphones, tablets, and iTouch etc. You can get voice chat apps on any of those. Many people who are waiting for the ps3 have PCs that don't meet the requirements. Luckily they can meet the requirements for voice chat Smiley: nod.
#5 Jun 08 2013 at 6:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hi, if the game allowed it we could use a headset (like in Black Ops). Otherwise, a keyboard.

Some linkshells in FF11 would not accept anyone who didn't use a ext service. The interview would be on some IRC channel.

Personally, I ended up turning off the sound in Black Ops because you'd have peeps that would:
1) Yell into the mike calling everyone a noob.
2) Decide the music they had on would be what everyone heard.
3) Have kids in the background crying to be fed. "Daddy, I'm hungry." over and over and over.
4) Shout out how wonderful a player they were. Over and over and over.
5) Static, static, static....
6) Hear a foreign language several people were talking, and be clueless about what they were saying.
7) Curse, and curse and curse.
8) Make up songs and sing them, over and over and over.

Grand Momma
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#6 Jun 08 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Grandmomma wrote:
Hi, if the game allowed it we could use a headset (like in Black Ops). Otherwise, a keyboard.

Some linkshells in FF11 would not accept anyone who didn't use a ext service. The interview would be on some IRC channel.

Personally, I ended up turning off the sound in Black Ops because you'd have peeps that would:
1) Yell into the mike calling everyone a noob.
2) Decide the music they had on would be what everyone heard.
3) Have kids in the background crying to be fed. "Daddy, I'm hungry." over and over and over.
4) Shout out how wonderful a player they were. Over and over and over.
5) Static, static, static....
6) Hear a foreign language several people were talking, and be clueless about what they were saying.
7) Curse, and curse and curse.
8) Make up songs and sing them, over and over and over.

Grand Momma


All excellent reasons not to use voice chat with strangers.

I'm assuming the lack of a line item reading "11-year olds shouting homophobic slurs" was because you're talking about PSN and not Xbox Live Smiley: wink

Edited, Jun 8th 2013 7:18pm by Callinon
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#7 Jun 08 2013 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Grandmomma wrote:
Hi, if the game allowed it we could use a headset (like in Black Ops). Otherwise, a keyboard.

Some linkshells in FF11 would not accept anyone who didn't use a ext service. The interview would be on some IRC channel.

Personally, I ended up turning off the sound in Black Ops because you'd have peeps that would:
1) Yell into the mike calling everyone a noob.
2) Decide the music they had on would be what everyone heard.
3) Have kids in the background crying to be fed. "Daddy, I'm hungry." over and over and over.
4) Shout out how wonderful a player they were. Over and over and over.
5) Static, static, static....
6) Hear a foreign language several people were talking, and be clueless about what they were saying.
7) Curse, and curse and curse.
8) Make up songs and sing them, over and over and over.

Grand Momma


All excellent reasons not to use voice chat with strangers.

I'm assuming the lack of a line item reading "11-year olds shouting homophobic slurs" was because you're talking about PSN and not Xbox Live Smiley: wink

Edited, Jun 8th 2013 7:18pm by Callinon


LOL - I remember in FF11 the younger crowd began using the term 'your ***' to mean your stupid. And there were a lot of 'rape' comments. Neither of these terms showed up in Black Ops.
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#8 Jun 08 2013 at 6:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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LOL - I remember in FF11 the younger crowd began using the term 'your ***' to mean your stupid. And there were a lot of 'rape' comments. Neither of these terms showed up in Black Ops.


Isn't it adorable when kids discover swearing?

Wait.. no... no it isn't. I actually weep for the future.
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#9 Jun 08 2013 at 10:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Callinon wrote:
Quote:
If yes, then how do you suppose people will communicate in ARR, if playing from a PS3? Use a keyboard? Speak (when needed) through an external service?


Yeah, pretty much like that.

I imagine there will be some kind of software keyboard like there was for the PS2 version of FFXI, I also expect no one to actually use it and instead to just use the USB ports on the front of the PS3 to connect a keyboard.


If they made an integrated keyboard like the one they had for XI, I would buy three, and play FFXIV--even if it sucks--just to support a well-designed peripheral premise.

Edited, Jun 8th 2013 10:00pm by Kachi
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#10 Jun 08 2013 at 11:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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I played on ps2 for ffxi and it was never an issue (people barely ever even asked what platform anyone was on), and had a usb keyboard. I played xiv on my pc, its a great pc but I like my ps3 more so I'll be playing ARR on my ps3. I still have that usb keyboard and have a wireless one now too.

People who play CoD mainly are not going to even know this game exists so comparing CoD players to the general ps3 ARR population is a pretty terrible comparison. CoD players usually only play CoD or other similar games (online fps) for the most part.

PS3 players also most likely have a pc to use whatever voice chat was needed, just as well as a pc player was using it. The game doesn't support voice chat so it's all going to be an external voice chat anyways. PS3 players won't be gimped in any way when it comes to chatting...

Edited, Jun 9th 2013 1:33am by PinkMermaid
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#11 Jun 08 2013 at 11:35 PM Rating: Good
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Would probably buy a keyboard for the PS3 and leave it at that. I don't particularly care for voice chat. I would enjoy voice chat if the people on the other end were mature. As this thread supports, unfortunately, that rarely tends to be the case.
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#12 Jun 08 2013 at 11:37 PM Rating: Excellent
They'll probably just use keyboards, which is what I'm going to do regardless of whether I'm on the PS3 or PC. I don't do voice chat.

I'm also an insanely fast typist, though.

Edited, Jun 8th 2013 10:38pm by Thayos
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#13 Jun 08 2013 at 11:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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I got a sweet little wireless keyboard at Radio Shack for $20. I plan on using that the great majority of the time. I'll also be supplementing with voice chat apps on my phone or using my PC which is also now right here in the room with me for raiding or when voice is really needed.
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#14 Jun 09 2013 at 12:54 AM Rating: Default
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I really don't know. Is voice chat just something that hasn't been confirmed for it yet, or is it definitely not being offered?

Jumping back and forth between a keyboard and controller feels kinda... antique? I know that people were fine with it during the FFXI era, but nowadays voice chat pretty much goes hand in hand with online gaming.

I mean, typing is fine for pick up groups, but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat. I don't know if people would want to wheel back and forth from their PC every time they needed to say something.
#15 Jun 09 2013 at 1:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat

Typing protects the illusion that the hot miq on the other end is not a fat pimpled teenager.
#16 Jun 09 2013 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Killua125 wrote:
I really don't know. Is voice chat just something that hasn't been confirmed for it yet, or is it definitely not being offered?

Jumping back and forth between a keyboard and controller feels kinda... antique? I know that people were fine with it during the FFXI era, but nowadays voice chat pretty much goes hand in hand with online gaming.

I mean, typing is fine for pick up groups, but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat. I don't know if people would want to wheel back and forth from their PC every time they needed to say something.



yea they confirm there be no ingame voice chat. there are so many opnions out there already there no real reason for them to add the stress to there servers
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#17 Jun 09 2013 at 1:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
I really don't know. Is voice chat just something that hasn't been confirmed for it yet, or is it definitely not being offered?

Jumping back and forth between a keyboard and controller feels kinda... antique? I know that people were fine with it during the FFXI era, but nowadays voice chat pretty much goes hand in hand with online gaming.

I mean, typing is fine for pick up groups, but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat. I don't know if people would want to wheel back and forth from their PC every time they needed to say something.


That is true, i believe if they still haven't done anything they should start doing so. Voice chat is quite important. While you can still use as we said laptops and mobile apps for voice chat its still not the right way.

While i support SE and will keep supporting the game i feel they should keep improving and not just say.." hey if they can have this work around we don't need to fix anything" because that's how they will make a great game out of a good one.
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#18 Jun 09 2013 at 1:16 AM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
I really don't know. Is voice chat just something that hasn't been confirmed for it yet, or is it definitely not being offered?

Jumping back and forth between a keyboard and controller feels kinda... antique? I know that people were fine with it during the FFXI era, but nowadays voice chat pretty much goes hand in hand with online gaming.

I mean, typing is fine for pick up groups, but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat. I don't know if people would want to wheel back and forth from their PC every time they needed to say something.


I think the apps for smart phones are probably going to be the solution honestly. You can get a little mic/earbud or a Bluetooth headset. My MMO experience is that voice is really only needed for high end raiding. It's nice to have when being social but unless I'm with a group I've known for awhile I'd rather just peck a kb.
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#19Killua125, Posted: Jun 09 2013 at 2:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So, at this point you're holding a controller in your hand, you're undoubtedly going to need a keyboard in your lap, you're hooked up to your phone, and on top of that, you'll obviously be needing to wheel your way back and forth between your PC and console, because you'll need to be checking wiki info.
#20 Jun 09 2013 at 2:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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#21 Jun 09 2013 at 3:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
I really don't know. Is voice chat just something that hasn't been confirmed for it yet, or is it definitely not being offered?

Jumping back and forth between a keyboard and controller feels kinda... antique? I know that people were fine with it during the FFXI era, but nowadays voice chat pretty much goes hand in hand with online gaming.

I mean, typing is fine for pick up groups, but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat. I don't know if people would want to wheel back and forth from their PC every time they needed to say something.


I think the apps for smart phones are probably going to be the solution honestly. You can get a little mic/earbud or a Bluetooth headset. My MMO experience is that voice is really only needed for high end raiding. It's nice to have when being social but unless I'm with a group I've known for awhile I'd rather just peck a kb.


So, at this point you're holding a controller in your hand, you're undoubtedly going to need a keyboard in your lap, you're hooked up to your phone, and on top of that, you'll obviously be needing to wheel your way back and forth between your PC and console, because you'll need to be checking wiki info.

All the while, your PS3 version isn't going to run as well as the PC version, and it costs (somewhere around) $40 for all this confusion!


The keyboard will be needed whatever happens. If you play a game in ps3 or in w/e console that's a given problem. Solution would be not buy the ps3 version. Simple, that's not a FF ARR problem so we should not add unnecessary problems. The only problem from all that you said is the voice chat. FF needs to fix/look into voice chat for consoles. Even then you will most likely gonna use it for raids. In my eve online career we use voice chat daily all the time (it is in fact mandatory to be on voice coms if you are online) but games like WoW FF Terra rift or w/e don't need that.
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#22 Jun 09 2013 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
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To be honest, since voice chat clients are not too resource-intensive, I would expect Sony / Microsoft to had solved the problem by now.

And not by forcing each game to implement voice comms in its code. It'd be much simpler - Provide an application, or even multiple ones, designed to work in tandem with the games, in the background, like their other online services do.

This way, people would be able to use the "official Teamspeak / Ventrilo / Mumble / etc" app and use that for comms.

I've heard that MS is just putting Skype in Xbone, despite having purchased it for sometime now, so perhaps what I suggest would be too advanced.

Regardless, it's not a multitasking or a processing power thingy - They just never felt the need to integrate this, I suppose.

Now - I believe that voice is an MMO necessity, but not for strangers. Coordinating a high level dungeon (or a raid) through typing is next to impossible. Coordinating even an arena like the Coliseum one (4vs4, I've heard) is also impossible.

So the setup should be the following, then:

  • PC: Keyboard / mouse, optionally gamepad, and headset for voice options
  • PS3: Gamepad, keyboard complementing it, and headset on a tablet / PC / mobile device perhaps


Could be worse =)
#23 Jun 09 2013 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Killua125 wrote:
LebargeX wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
I really don't know. Is voice chat just something that hasn't been confirmed for it yet, or is it definitely not being offered?

Jumping back and forth between a keyboard and controller feels kinda... antique? I know that people were fine with it during the FFXI era, but nowadays voice chat pretty much goes hand in hand with online gaming.

I mean, typing is fine for pick up groups, but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat. I don't know if people would want to wheel back and forth from their PC every time they needed to say something.


I think the apps for smart phones are probably going to be the solution honestly. You can get a little mic/earbud or a Bluetooth headset. My MMO experience is that voice is really only needed for high end raiding. It's nice to have when being social but unless I'm with a group I've known for awhile I'd rather just peck a kb.


So, at this point you're holding a controller in your hand, you're undoubtedly going to need a keyboard in your lap, you're hooked up to your phone, and on top of that, you'll obviously be needing to wheel your way back and forth between your PC and console, because you'll need to be checking wiki info.

All the while, your PS3 version isn't going to run as well as the PC version, and it costs (somewhere around) $40 for all this confusion!


No. I mean that voice chat would take the place of your kb when needed. Also I tend not to use wikis unless absolutely necessary. And why I choose to play on PS3 has no bearing on the matter.

Furthermore I don't know why I ever took your smarmy condescending posterior off ignore.

Good luck
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#24 Jun 09 2013 at 7:39 AM Rating: Default
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C'mon third party app developers!!! ***** voice chat! It helps on some of the most difficult raids. But other than that it is usually a cest pool of swearing, abnoxiously loud, battle of wills over the chat.

Can I get a version of this for PS3 and PC for use in ARR? PLEASE! :D
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#25 Jun 09 2013 at 7:48 AM Rating: Good
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I always join a "mature" friendly family oriented guild so such swearing and yelling is no where to be seen. It has worked in the past and i plan to stick with that plan. I hope they add a PS3 exclusive voice program to help people but I dont think its "needed"
#26 Jun 09 2013 at 9:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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I didn't even know that people are using their smart phones for game chatting. Is there a certain app being used? I've got some googling to do!
#27 Jun 09 2013 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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schneiderw wrote:
I didn't even know that people are using their smart phones for game chatting. Is there a certain app being used? I've got some googling to do!



Same programs you use for pc really. Team speak ventrilo etc.
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#28 Jun 09 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
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but as soon as people get to know each other, they usually would prefer to voice chat

Typing protects the illusion that the hot miq on the other end is not a fat pimpled teenager.


lol
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#29 Jun 09 2013 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Teravibe wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
I didn't even know that people are using their smart phones for game chatting. Is there a certain app being used? I've got some googling to do!



Same programs you use for pc really. Team speak ventrilo etc.


Geez that's the same one that was used in FF11. did Ventrilo and Team Speak change their max people? Cause it used to be 8. Skype is 10.




Edited, Jun 9th 2013 11:33am by Grandmomma
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#30 Jun 09 2013 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Grandmomma wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
schneiderw wrote:
I didn't even know that people are using their smart phones for game chatting. Is there a certain app being used? I've got some googling to do!



Same programs you use for pc really. Team speak ventrilo etc.


Geez that's the same one that was used in FF11. did Ventrilo and Team Speak change their max people? Cause it used to be 8. Skype is 10.




Edited, Jun 9th 2013 11:33am by Grandmomma


Skype is probably a hard limit, but vent, mumble, and ts servers are licensed to provide X number of slots depending on how many are being paid for.
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#31 Jun 09 2013 at 10:59 AM Rating: Default
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Skype is 10? Are you sure? I've been in calls with my guild before, I thought. Not really sure how many were around, lol.

I was on a 50-person Ventrilo also, and that was 5 years ago. (the size was needed for a serverwide event in-game)

To answer Grandmomma, Ventrilo is definitely a lot less used these days.

Edited, Jun 9th 2013 1:00pm by Killua125
#32 Jun 09 2013 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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"Mumble" seems the most interesting these days (I have never actually used it, only used Ventrilo in the past).

Ventrilo seems to have been stuck in the past, it did always have a horrible development pace. Can't speak about Teamspeak, was never a huge fan.

I must check out Mumble though, if it's indeed open source then I could set it up on a server of our own. Hmm.
#33 Jun 09 2013 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Mumble is in fact good. For alliance wide coms in eve online we were using teamspeak and even then we would speak for more than 100 men online.But when we had coalition wide fleets we would use mumble and then the real party started with more than 500-700 people online at the same time to take orders.
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#34 Jun 09 2013 at 11:25 AM Rating: Default
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Yeah, the most recent online game I played used Mumble. I didn't mention it because I wasn't sure if it's popular or not, but I guess so.
#35 Jun 09 2013 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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Teravibe wrote:
Mumble is in fact good. For alliance wide coms in eve online we were using teamspeak and even then we would speak for more than 100 men online.But when we had coalition wide fleets we would use mumble and then the real party started with more than 500-700 people online at the same time to take orders.


You played EVE? Aww. I feel bad for never indulging to this, from what I know and have read it looks great fun!

But no worries, at least ARR seems to have enough promising signs for our time not to be wasted! Smiley: grin
#36 Jun 09 2013 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Sovjohn wrote:
Teravibe wrote:
Mumble is in fact good. For alliance wide coms in eve online we were using teamspeak and even then we would speak for more than 100 men online.But when we had coalition wide fleets we would use mumble and then the real party started with more than 500-700 people online at the same time to take orders.


You played EVE? Aww. I feel bad for never indulging to this, from what I know and have read it looks great fun!

But no worries, at least ARR seems to have enough promising signs for our time not to be wasted! Smiley: grin



Yep eve as i said again and again was and is one of the best games i've played. I stopped playing a month ago only i got tired since i have been playing it for 3 years. But the game is really good and i will go back at it at some point. At the moment though.....ARR is what i want! Smiley: grin
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#37 Jun 10 2013 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Playing on a Ps3, while holding the controler, having a keyboard next to your to chat and a voice app on your smartphone is not really the issue.... but, what about the **** PUSH-TO-TALK button. It can be stressfull

I gotta start figuring out the most practical manner of putting it all together
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#38 Jun 10 2013 at 5:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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SeiFMeiSTeR wrote:
Playing on a Ps3, while holding the controler, having a keyboard next to your to chat and a voice app on your smartphone is not really the issue.... but, what about the **** PUSH-TO-TALK button. It can be stressfull

I gotta start figuring out the most practical manner of putting it all together


Push to talk, yea that's annoying but there are some headsets that have on off switch of their own or the ones that if you do not speak they are turned off automatically and the moment you speak they are activated. Of course that means you can not "yell" to your mum or we will hear you! Smiley: lol
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#39 Jun 10 2013 at 6:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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That's true, there are several headsets (USB or with a jack) which have a button on them, pushing the button mutes the mic completely.

So if someone needed to use a smartphone or tablet solution (cause a laptop could always support PTT) could have their mic muted via the hardware button, and then when you need to talk, disable mute.

Depending on the headset (my Logitech USB one handles this like that) a red light can be lit somewhere on the headset so that you won't try to talk in vain if you see it.

It's not an extremely practical solution, but it certainly "can work"! =)
#40 Jun 10 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure we'll all figure something out, the way it best works for us. The thing is, having the 2 hands grabbing the Ps3 controller, in the case of PTT buttons, taking one hand of the controller to push it and talk, can be stressful (depending on the situation).

For me, maybe having the "voice activated" option might be best, and only use voice coms when needed, like raids of some big events like that.
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#41 Jun 10 2013 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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I hope something presents itself. Smart phones appear to be the best alternative right now.
I don't have a good feel for how much JP uses voice chat. I don't think they do. That is probably why this wasn't addressed 4 years ago like microsoft did.
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#42 Jun 10 2013 at 11:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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PS3 has its own internal voice chat thingy under Friends > Start New Chat > Voice/Video Chat, but its only when you stay on the XMB. You can't enter a game with it. If only Sony could tweak that little part... x.x
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#43 Jun 10 2013 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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most of the people i played with in xi had xbox's, so we just created an xbox party so we could talk with each other since the ls didn't have vent or teamspeak. Most of us used PC's, and our headsets allowed us to hear everything in the game while also connecting a wire to the xbox controller for chat. It worked well but if you have more than 8 people to talk to then i don't recomend this.

If your playing on PS3 though if i'm not mistaken voice chat parties in game isn't possible, but thats only what ive heard, i don't have any experience with that since i only use my ps3 for exclusive games.

If your on PC like i said you could use a 360 if you have the right headset, otherwise you would need ventrillo or teamspeak which unfortunatley isn't free.

universally though, you will be able to use a keyboard like everyone on PC and chat that way. It isn't the best way to communicate, especially when complex things are going on, but it's better than nothing.
#44 Jun 10 2013 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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SkinwalkerAsura wrote:
Smoke signals and semiphore


Smoke signals would require going to a window and looking out. There'd be a danger of breathing in...fresh air. Smiley: oyvey
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#45 Jun 10 2013 at 12:59 PM Rating: Good
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Teravibe wrote:
Mumble is in fact good. For alliance wide coms in eve online we were using teamspeak and even then we would speak for more than 100 men online.But when we had coalition wide fleets we would use mumble and then the real party started with more than 500-700 people online at the same time to take orders.


Mumble is, imo, better than vent but more limited in number of people that can be on. A lot of times in vent, you had that delay where you heard yourself still talking for a few secs. I've also used Raidcall, but for one guild in short time period, so can't really judge, but I didn't have any noticeable problems.
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#46 Jun 10 2013 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I personally believe that they will communicate via smoke and signal fires dotting the mountainsides. Three puffs for "Use Provoke!" and two small puffs, a large puff, and three lines for "Aggro!"... Their system needs work.
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#47 Jun 10 2013 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
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DamienSScott wrote:
I personally believe that they will communicate via smoke and signal fires dotting the mountainsides. Three puffs for "Use Provoke!" and two small puffs, a large puff, and three lines for "Aggro!"... Their system needs work.


Don't forget semaphore :)
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#48 Jun 11 2013 at 4:13 AM Rating: Decent
Lol I was gonnz say that one
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