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#102 Jun 12 2013 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
So there is no running to a retainer to find things; it's all one stop shop and sell?


Unfortunately it's not a one stop shop.

You'll have to drop off stuff at your retainer in order to sell stuff, designate price etc, then you'll have to run over to the board to search. For Gridania the retainer call and the market board aren't very far so it's not a big deal. Not far meaning two booths over. But we haven't seen the other cities so those will be unknown.
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#103 Jun 12 2013 at 5:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Theonehio wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
Theonehio wrote:
Probably was answered but the question about Auction Houses = They're not implementing one.


Is that true?

I only tested combat. My friend told me there is some sort of Auction House thing but you have to do it through your retainer. I don't get it.

There's no AH counter like FFXI or WoW?


It uses a counter now (Market Board), but it's not a typical Auction House, you still do things via retainer, they're just making it much more user friendly.


I don't mind if there's no auction house, as long as their "better than an auction house substitute" is actually better than an auction house, or at least functionally equivalent. The Market Wards were a joke no matter how many coats of paint they put on them. Even in the end they were only half as good as the FFXI AH (and I'm being generous).
#104 Jun 12 2013 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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KayannaBigGrr wrote:
Kierk wrote:
So there is no running to a retainer to find things; it's all one stop shop and sell?


Unfortunately it's not a one stop shop.

You'll have to drop off stuff at your retainer in order to sell stuff, designate price etc, then you'll have to run over to the board to search. For Gridania the retainer call and the market board aren't very far so it's not a big deal. Not far meaning two booths over. But we haven't seen the other cities so those will be unknown.


I'm not certain but I think in one of the beta 3 change threads on the beta forums, they have confirmed that this will change.

We will know for sure tomorrow.
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#105 Jun 12 2013 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd like to say I am excited about the imminent beta, to which I will probably participate as an old 1.0 account owner who never used the account.

And really, I tried searching for some place on this forum where people stated they got their e-mails, but did not find any. Anyhow, it should be all OK tomorrow I suppose.

Other than that, a comment for 'ostia' and the battle system he mentioned frequently:

To the best of my knowledge, MMO developers spend an awful lot of time analyzing metrics. Numbers, and more numbers. I had even seen the stupid SWTOR developers presenting charts with numbers, back in early 2012 when I quit, due to them being unable to provide decent bug-free endgame and balance - My healer class was worth 1/2 of the infamous Sorcerer, and it became too frustrating since they could not fix this properly.

So - Stuff like cooldown mechanics, abilities, how much they hit, who they hit most or least, etc, are fair game to be tweaked up until release, and beyond, even on Day 1 patches and subsequent patches.

Nobody should expect to play Beta phase 1 / 2 / 3 and see everything "all set" for launch. Heck, even open beta / P4 won't be identical to launch. I fully expect things to be continuously adapted up until the early access period, and beyond.

If the actual final game launches in late August, and you find it to be disappointing or unplayable, with the developers not caring about the community sentiments, alright, quit playing it.

But I have to say, that guy, Yoshi-P? (Plus all the others, community managers, etc) They seem really resolved to spend their otherwise precious time interacting with the community and learning from any mistakes they make.

So I am very confident that shortcomings will be fixed by release, or shortly after in some cases.

It's natural, as long as they listen. That EVE online company whose name I forget has been superb at listening, and while the game is "hardcore / inaccessible" to newbie players for a long time now, they're rolling just fine after a decade of service.

That's about it. The rest can wait until I play P3 and have an opinion of my own. =)
#106 Jun 12 2013 at 5:54 PM Rating: Default
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Sovjohn wrote:
I'd like to say I am excited about the imminent beta, to which I will probably participate as an old 1.0 account owner who never used the account.

And really, I tried searching for some place on this forum where people stated they got their e-mails, but did not find any. Anyhow, it should be all OK tomorrow I suppose.

Other than that, a comment for 'ostia' and the battle system he mentioned frequently:

To the best of my knowledge, MMO developers spend an awful lot of time analyzing metrics. Numbers, and more numbers. I had even seen the stupid SWTOR developers presenting charts with numbers, back in early 2012 when I quit, due to them being unable to provide decent bug-free endgame and balance - My healer class was worth 1/2 of the infamous Sorcerer, and it became too frustrating since they could not fix this properly.

So - Stuff like cooldown mechanics, abilities, how much they hit, who they hit most or least, etc, are fair game to be tweaked up until release, and beyond, even on Day 1 patches and subsequent patches.

Nobody should expect to play Beta phase 1 / 2 / 3 and see everything "all set" for launch. Heck, even open beta / P4 won't be identical to launch. I fully expect things to be continuously adapted up until the early access period, and beyond.

If the actual final game launches in late August, and you find it to be disappointing or unplayable, with the developers not caring about the community sentiments, alright, quit playing it.

But I have to say, that guy, Yoshi-P? (Plus all the others, community managers, etc) They seem really resolved to spend their otherwise precious time interacting with the community and learning from any mistakes they make.

So I am very confident that shortcomings will be fixed by release, or shortly after in some cases.

It's natural, as long as they listen. That EVE online company whose name I forget has been superb at listening, and while the game is "hardcore / inaccessible" to newbie players for a long time now, they're rolling just fine after a decade of service.

That's about it. The rest can wait until I play P3 and have an opinion of my own. =)


6-7 Iterations of the combat system in 2 years is Unbelievable! As for your beta/launch thing... Well depends on what you mean by identical, will the game change 70% ? No! Will it have some changes ? Yes! Mostly of what is in beta, will always be in the final product, with a few changes here and there, unless something is terrible wrong, so more often than not, the game you play in the final stage of beta, is the game you will be playing on release.... Smiley: lol
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#107 Jun 12 2013 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Well even tho they have promised changes, this is the 7th or so incarnation of a combat system, it seems for whatever reason, they have yet to come up with a combat system that they can all agree too, in my opinion the combat system they had in 1.0 was far superior to the one we had in Beta up to Now! Removing the limits of GCD so that you use other skills while you wait for your skills in cool down to be up, seems like a wrong approach, since the problem with the combat system was not one of long cool downs, rather it was of the system and the encounters being way to easy, you really did not need to think of a rotation at no point at all during beta, you just spammed 1-2 or 1-1-1 and called it a day, also TP regeneration was a huge problem, you had basically infinite resource to use, with out a second thoght on managing it.

I did both dungeons in the beta, and none of them where even a challenge the first time i did them, as a lancer i had no problem getting aggro, i could burn the monster down, while the tank tanked another one easy, in case of a bad pull, if a monster aggroed the healer, i could get his attention, beat him, and still have well over half my health to kill whatever it was left standing, that is not a problem of GCD, but of encounter Design. Now with the freedom different GCD will give us, it will be even easier to do just that, unless they have drastically changed the encounters to be harder.... Which i guess we will have to wait and see.


There were three dungeons...
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#108 Jun 12 2013 at 6:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't know you, Ostia, but people have mentioned you by name around here in ZAM in the past couple of weeks I've been a member on this FF XIV forum, so you must be a drama queen =)

I've played MMO's before this one. WOW, SWTOR, GW2, heck, even FF XI when it launched in Europe, before WOW did.

The game does not change fundamentally between a beta period and the release, however, stuff like abilities numbers / damage, cooldowns, etc, always change. It would be illogical to keep them static anyway.

Other than that, number-crunching and data is also needed for the content, so even if we're talking about dungeons, I recall the final release to have 16+ of them. If the developers see, during open beta or whenever, that people have problems, and these problems stem from abilities / cooldowns / etc, they will tweak the game.

Otherwise, the game eventually dies a slow death. And I don't see FF XIV ignoring community feedback so far. The signs are positive.
#109Ostia, Posted: Jun 12 2013 at 6:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 2 New ones, din't really cared for the reused one.
#110 Jun 12 2013 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm just saying, it's still a dungeon, and it was a fun one. You are spreading false information by saying there were only two, that is incorrect.
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#111 Jun 12 2013 at 6:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Kierk wrote:
So there is no running to a retainer to find things; it's all one stop shop and sell?


WoW AH = unlimited slots, you can list anything at any price, at any amount. All prices and stack sizes are viewable as well as you can bid on items or buy them outright (delivered to your mailbox). It's pretty much a textbook definition of an auction house. No personal bazaars.

FFXI "AH" = not an auction house. You essentially have 7 slots you can list of either single items or a full stack. You decide what price to sell goods and the buyers basically have to blindly "guesstimate" amounts to purchase goods (immediately placed into your inventory). There is no bidding, only flat out purchasing. The last ten times an item is sold is shown in a price history but otherwise it's a blind bidding system. I despise it and if it weren't for FFXIAH for faster lookups I wouldn't even bother with the **** system. Personal bazaars were possible and the only limitation was your inventory space (and in fact bazaars are the only way to sell a lot of items that can't be placed on the "AH" for some damned reason).

FFXIV "AH" = I can only recount what I know from 1.0. Retainers had 10 slots (which is now 20 in 2.0 according to the Lodestone's list of changes from 1.0 to 2.0) in which were your "AH" slots. Before the counter would allow you to search, select an item, and then put an * above the retainers that sold the items. However, I *believe* now you just select what you want to purchase and it's bought and delivered into your inventory. Basically the retainers are your personal pages (if you will) and have 20 "AH" slots you can use to sell goods. I do not believe bidding is possible, only outright purchasing (like FFXI). Personal bazaaring won't be possible in 2.0.
#112NaomiCharitey, Posted: Jun 12 2013 at 6:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hey guys, the NDA is lifted for P3 and onward. Anything from P2 and P1 is under NDA still.
#113 Jun 12 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Decent
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NaomiCharitey wrote:
Hey guys, the NDA is lifted for P3 and onward. Anything from P2 and P1 is under NDA still.

Meaning your opinions of the game up until now are also under NDA.


That wouldn't make sense. Why would they lift it now for Phase 3 only, when Phase 3 hasn't started yet?
#114 Jun 12 2013 at 6:15 PM Rating: Decent
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NaomiCharitey wrote:
Hey guys, the NDA is lifted for P3 and onward. Anything from P2 and P1 is under NDA still.

Meaning your opinions of the game up until now are also under NDA.


Here's the post

"
[NA] In regards to Confidentiality and Usage of Copyrighted Materials

Under the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Test Agreement, we asked you to keep confidential the features, information, and bugs related to the Beta Test as well as information shared on the Beta Tester Forum. As of June 12, 2013, we grant you permission to disclose information regarding the Beta Test.

While we grant you permission to disclose information and remove restrictions set under the confidentiality provisions, in the case you would like to use any copyrighted materials, you must 1) agree and comply with our FINAL FANTASY® XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Test Materials Usage License, 2) comply with any additional instructions provided by us.

Videos, sound, music or screenshots from the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Alpha Test, Beta Test phase 1 and Beta Test phase 2 may not be used. As of June 12, 2013, Testers may post screenshots from the Beta Test phase 3, however, videos, sound, and music remain prohibited.

We will post further information regarding media usage at the time of launch of the official service. "

We're fine to discuss anything, but can't post pictures of Alpha, B1, B2, Videos, Music, or Audio.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 6:16pm by KayannaBigGrr
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#115 Jun 12 2013 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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Not really.

The post said...

"As of June 12, 2013, we grant you permission to disclose information regarding the Beta Test. While we grant you permission to disclose information and remove restrictions set under the confidentiality provisions, in the case you would like to use any copyrighted materials, you must 1) agree and comply with our FINAL FANTASY® XIV: A Realm Reborn Beta Test Materials Usage License, 2) comply with any additional instructions provided by us.

Videos, sound, music or screenshots from the FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn Alpha Test, Beta Test phase 1 and Beta Test phase 2 may not be used. As of June 12, 2013, Testers may post screenshots from the Beta Test phase 3, however, videos, sound, and music remain prohibited."

So people can talk about the beta as much as they like, but cannot post images / videos / etc from P1 / P2. And can only post images from P3, not videos or sound. Seems OK to me!
#117 Jun 12 2013 at 6:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Parathyroid wrote:

5. Rate the following out of 10, Battle System; "Casual-friendly" (10 being most casual); Overall enjoyment



What combat system is not casual friendly in an MMO? This isn't Street Fighter, it is not hard. FFXI's combat was no more difficult than that of Rift, WoW, TERA, TOR, or any other MMO.



Edited, Jun 12th 2013 8:23pm by Transmigration
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#118 Jun 12 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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Anything that involves thought or challenge it considered hardcore to modern gamers.
#119 Jun 12 2013 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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Dizmo wrote:
Anything that involves thought or challenge it considered hardcore to modern gamers.


Haha, indeed.
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#120 Jun 12 2013 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
Parathyroid wrote:

5. Rate the following out of 10, Battle System; "Casual-friendly" (10 being most casual); Overall enjoyment



What combat system is not casual friendly in an MMO? This isn't Street Fighter, it is not hard. FFXI's combat was no more difficult than that of Rift, WoW, TERA, TOR, or any other MMO.



Edited, Jun 12th 2013 8:23pm by Transmigration


Well, I put a ; to indicate this being a separate category... i.e. rate the casual-friendliness of the game itself.
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#121 Jun 12 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Good
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Rift rotations, or more specifically the vast difference in performance outputs with near oerfect rotations, was pretty challenging. I would not expect most gamers to play a rising waterfall warrior to the degree that it could be played, or any rendition of rift's dps rotations.

From prelim description, xiv battle sounds like (ffxi stand and fight+rift rotation perfection hoop jumping)/2.

Perfect.
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#122 Jun 12 2013 at 6:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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Lets keep it civil folks, name calling never results in anything good.
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#123 Jun 12 2013 at 6:47 PM Rating: Default
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Dizmo wrote:
Anything that involves thought or challenge it considered hardcore to modern gamers.


I hope the people at SE don't read this while they are making XV! Quick edit your post so they don't see it!
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#124 Jun 12 2013 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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Parathyroid wrote:
Killua125 wrote:
I only played the game a little bit with my friend. So, I'm still not sure about a lot of things, but I did test out the combat on a decent level character.

It's sleep inducing. You don't have to micromanage at all (at least, on Lancer) - you just press the same 2 buttons over and over, and wait for the GCD timer to mash more. You don't have to think at all.

I noticed that the few skills which required you to pay attention (such as Feint, or the Pugilist skill when you used the skill after evading) have been changed to be more casual, and you can just spam it now. You don't have to pay attention anymore for those.

The game gives you full TP now for every monster, so you don't have to worry about that either.

So I can't comment on other things, but the combat will have to go through some major changes if I'm going to play it. I would like to know if the combat was any different at the E3 booth, if anybody knows anything.


1. Is the above true about the combat system?

2. How is the group play element?

3. Is the game mostly spent soloing or working in groups?

4. Is it really easy to level up? I hope not, I like when you have to work for your max level.

5. Rate the following out of 10, Battle System; "Casual-friendly" (10 being most casual); Overall enjoyment



1. For Lancer? Sure, if you want to play really poorly.

For all the negative slights against the 'combat system' most of it suffers from a major issue that had nothing to do about class design at all - the monsters were just plain too easy.

They were the same placeholder monsters from Alpha, therefore they really had no depth to their actions, they simply spammned an attack on occasion. The only ones that had an assemblance of AI to them were the bosses, and only one you could blindly attack, and that was due to how low her damage scaling was (also a placeholder.)

As far as terms of playing lancer correctly? Absolutely not true. If you want to play Lancer right, you had to be sure you were flanking the enemy's hind point constantly. Your primary damage enhancing debuff would not fire unless you first set it up as part of a combo, and the combo could only fire if you engaged the attack from behind the monster. This debuff was signifigant, as it reduced the enemy's resitance to the base damage which effected all Piercing skills - meaning both Lancer and Archer got benefits in damage from the debuff.

You pair this with the fact that most engagements in dungeons involved more than once monster, and you found yourself moving into position multiple times in fights, just to place the debuff on.

The only gripe I had on lancer is that there wasn't a similar restriction on your first 3 - attack combo, which you can just use sequentially to max out damage. (Though you'll want to use Life Surge before hitting the third attack for max damage and life restore.) But it made a sizeable impact on your DPS if you used that combo before putting the debuff on, more so on certain monsters than others.

As far as TP goes. For short fights, you won't run out. But that did not matter for lancer because the danger from the engagement isn't tiring out, it's getting outright mauled. Solo, in Leves, there were situations in which you solo would be engaged by up to three monsters at once, a situation that was most likely fatal unless you juggeled your abilities just right. Elsewise, you would have to flee, return back and pick them off one by one at the risk of being attacked by the remaining ones.

Longer fights, TP management becomes a concern. A Dragoon will tire out if you're consistently using skills. Much faster if you don't use your skills properly. We gain Invigorate to help stem this issue but you can still run out even afterwards if you're mismanaging your skills.

But this was hard to understand if all you did was fight trash mobs or not advance up in the levels, the introduction to skills was a shallow curve, meaning there was lots of handholding in making things very easy for beginning players. Too easy in my opinion. Monsters either flat out died or flat out killed you in short order either way, which was what really made things seem shallow for players. Seeming monsters have gone under extensive revisions I doubt this will remain the case, but I'll wait and see anyways.

Quote:
2. How is the group play element?


Typical MMO far. Tank Tanks the mob, DPS deal damage, Healers try to heal. Each class has their own debuffs to inflict that help make the fight easier, some more effective than others depending on the situation. (Some flatly not effective due to short duration on skills or quickly growing resistences.) Beyond that, the party functions work, nothing special aside from what we've not yet seen first hand (Limit Breaks) But not poorly implemented either. Each of the four playable classes felt like they had a role to play.

Quote:

4. Is it really easy to level up? I hope not, I like when you have to work for your max level.


Not sure, EXP was pretty skewed for the Beta Test, with options to flatly skip some level spans. And not all quests were available even in the area you were playing them, mainly do to a number of quests requring you to leave the region which wasn't possible during the test.

However I'd say EXP is fairly easy to come by if you know what you are doing. Primarily people will do questing for easier exp first, then move on to parties in Dungeons is the best method, but take a bit of repeating the runs to advance on. Not that you'll mind the dungeons. They're fun, and they drop the best loot for the level, not including Meteria melding or HQ crafts, as we've seen neither of them yet.

Overall, however, I'd say it's not hard to get to cap, but there will be plenty to keep you occupied on the journey up. Aside from dungeon runs, there's little in the way of grinding unless you don't like the lore in the quest.

Quote:
5. Rate the following out of 10, Battle System; "Casual-friendly" (10 being most casual); Overall enjoyment


I'd rate the Battle system in Phases 1-2 a maximum of 7. They got good things there, it needed a lot of tuning to get it feeling good and to encourage players to play better than they were. But I found myself enjoying the combat when I realized I could be doing better and pushed myself to do so in spite of the monsters being too easy.

Causal friendly? Right now that's a nine. It's very casual friendly, having the more hardcore stuff reserved for endgame by their own lips. But they tote over and over again on the forums that Crystal Tower and Bahamut's Laberynth are going to be incredibly hard, and there's plenty of moments that crush you if you're not aware of your surroundings. (Level 45 monsters close to a beginning area, for instance.)

Overall enjoyment? Eight and a half. It's good. The amount of effort they throw into the game shows. But it's a diamond in the rough as of phases 1 and 2. People are not going to like how the combat pans out no matter what, and that's just personal preferences speaking. I've seen those debates go on as long as MMOs have existed. However, there's depth there to be had (Hopefully more and more prevalent in phase 3) and the enviroment feels rich, vibrant, and most importantly, fun.

We'll see if it continues to improve for Phase 3. I don't expect we keep everyone who tires it, and those who don't like it will likely be very vocal (They always are.) But so far I'm happy with most of what I played.
#125 Jun 12 2013 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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As for gamepads on the PC, does any game pad work? Or only specific ones?

I ask because I own an Xbox 360 controller that I use for certain PC games of mine.
#126 Jun 12 2013 at 7:53 PM Rating: Good
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Hatamaz wrote:
As for gamepads on the PC, does any game pad work? Or only specific ones?

I ask because I own an Xbox 360 controller that I use for certain PC games of mine.


Your 360 controller should work. I use one as well and it's a generic kind, not the Xbox brand.

There was a slight limit to the amount of controllers initially available to use during phase 2, but that expanded even before it finished.

PS3 and Xbox360 remotes will both work. (though I think the PS3 remotes need a work around to work on computers in general, not sure)

#127 Jun 12 2013 at 8:01 PM Rating: Default
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You don't need to insult me saying I didn't know how to play, etc. It was incredibly simplistic.

Anyway, my biggest issue was the lack of any kind of micromanagement, again. Surely you can understand that complaint. I really don't like how you just get tons of TP just for starting a fight. It's bizarre and not fun (IMO, of course).

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:07pm by Killua125
#128 Jun 12 2013 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Any more info about Archer>Bard. I heard the only physical range dps class in the game were extremely sub-par in damage output. I mained a Bard in FFXI and a Hunter in vanilla WOW before going Druid so the style of both interests me. I don't mind that they do not equal in dps as the pure dps classes, but I don't want a staggering gap between them. Having a 6%-10% base difference is acceptable since I heard they are partially a support class, but anything more would be disappointing if they don't have the ability to replace a White Mage in groups. But then again, I don't want to be the main healer either. I guess, one of the things I'm afraid of is when you are LFG, Archer/Bard becomes a last pick since they turned out to be an insignificant requirement for group progression.


Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:28pm by niquev71
#129 Jun 12 2013 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
You don't need to insult me saying I didn't know how to play, etc. It was incredibly simplistic.

Anyway, my biggest issue was the lack of any kind of micromanagement, again. Surely you can understand that complaint. I really don't like how you just get tons of TP just for starting a fight. It's bizarre and not fun (IMO, of course).


I didn't insult you. I criticized the play approach you were supporting. Please realize the difference. Also, I did specify that the reason for your opinion was due to the ease of the monsters, not by implying that you were a simpleton or anything of the sort.

I disagree on your micromanagement issue. By 35, Lancer had a clear ideal rotation for monsters that could survive that long.

Heavy Thrust combo, into Phlembumize (Maximinzing DoT effect) Raging Strikes (For damage spike) Into True Thrust combo twice to three times depending on need for evasion. On the first True Thrust you use Life Surge before completing combo.

Afterwards you refreshed Heavy Thrust and that **** DoT skill I can't spell.

As far as the TP issue. I flatly don't agree with you. TP in FFXI is the Limit Gage in FFXIV on an individual level. It promotes very passive play and puts Melee classes deeply behind Magic Classes in terms of front-loaded damage output. Now, TP is very similar in regards to MP and needs to be managed more or less with the same regard, which in my opinion is not a bad thing.
#130 Jun 12 2013 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
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niquev71 wrote:
Any more info about Archer>Bard. I heard the only physical range dps class in the game were extremely sub-par in damage output. I mained a Bard in FFXI and a Hunter in vanilla WOW before going Druid so the style of both interests me. I don't mind that they do not equal in dps as the pure dps classes, but I don't want a staggering gap between them. Having a 6%-10% base difference is acceptable since I heard they are partially a support class, but anything more would be disappointing if they don't have the ability to replace a White Mage in groups. But then again, I don't want to be the main healer either. I guess, one of the things I'm afraid of is when you are LFG, Archer/Bard becomes a last pick since they turned out to be an insignificant requirement for group progression.


Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:28pm by niquev71


Archer/Bard should be a high priority pick due to being a support class. As a Bard, you won't be main healer, but rather enhanse the performance of all members of the party by providing strong buffs that will improve the MP/TP supply, or improving accuracy or attack.

Bards are usually a high priority pick due to this universal assistance they provide, on top of moderate DPS and support cures.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:38pm by Hyrist
#131 Jun 12 2013 at 9:30 PM Rating: Good
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The issue has always been enemy characteristics. You could have the most polished/balanced classes in the history of mmos. If the monsters are one trick ponies and fall over and die like ants. All that class power means diddly squat.

It's rather late in the game to rebalance every monster in the game at this point by launch. So at best we might get enemies HP and defenses boosted up for a short term fix. And hopefully, after launch they take the time to go back and work on enemy characteristics.

Are these battle easy mode comments just related to trash mobs and low level dungeons or later in the game as well?

I think the best way to make hotkey combat(similar to other mmos) feel different and require more than rotations:

1. Is to implement a skill modifier feature as I suggested before. This involves holding or tapping keys to manipulate things like potency, accuracy, criticals, mp conservation, range, AoE spread, conal spread, etc, etc. Each skill has it's own unique modifier applications and make repeatedly used skills effectiveness decay at a steady rate.

Then people can still say you push 1-2-1-3-1, whatever. But... It's not just taking which button you press but at what time you release the said buttons. It's still not twitch skill, but it creates a cerebral correlation on top of the gear and stat builds a player strives for. Am I pumping out good damage? Am I over spending my resources? How should I fine tune my modifiers to fit the appropriate need for this situation?

In a twitch based game, resources can be overcome by moving around. In a static to semi static environment, resources are what makes a game hard when your resources are vastly inferior to the enemies.

Jobs could become more party dependant to maintain resources as their description implies. Classes are more resourceful but lack that punch at the roles jobs fill. That's my two cents anyways....
#132 Jun 12 2013 at 10:35 PM Rating: Good
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You're making the assumption that monster adjustments started at the end of phase 2. It quite simply did not.

The monster revisions, along with most of the feedback provided through phase 1 and 2, were started as early as the Alpha feedbacks. The issues that exploded the forums were not new at all, there was a laundry list that Yoshida and crew were already going through by the time the full of Legacy Players got their hands on the Beta. The list grew, of course, but the monster adjustments, the combat system adjustments, they were already continual and ongoing as the Beta phases 1 and 2 were taking place.

So yah, adjusting all monster mechanics is well within the preview of several months, especially with the server-side client they created for themselves, which, by their own word, is fairly robust and customizable in and of itself.

That said, other recommendations, I'd say we can hold off until after this weekends inital impressions before we reiterate. Again, I don't expect everyone to be satisfied, but for now we can see what sort of fruit our feedback bore and what the full of the combat system will be like, now that we've got the Limit Break system in place.

Kind of not happy that I won't be able to test level 50 character's abilities right away, but at least I can push up the initial latter and see how they changed the ability progress.
#133 Jun 13 2013 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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So you can now buy an item directly from the ward search screen?

EDIT: Where does it go, straight to your inventory?


Edited, Jun 13th 2013 3:11am by Gnu
#134 Jun 13 2013 at 1:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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niquev71 wrote:
Any more info about Archer>Bard. I heard the only physical range dps class in the game were extremely sub-par in damage output. I mained a Bard in FFXI and a Hunter in vanilla WOW before going Druid so the style of both interests me. I don't mind that they do not equal in dps as the pure dps classes, but I don't want a staggering gap between them. Having a 6%-10% base difference is acceptable since I heard they are partially a support class, but anything more would be disappointing if they don't have the ability to replace a White Mage in groups. But then again, I don't want to be the main healer either. I guess, one of the things I'm afraid of is when you are LFG, Archer/Bard becomes a last pick since they turned out to be an insignificant requirement for group progression.


Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:28pm by niquev71


In the Ifrit demo (lol) there was an archer firing off shots at the fiery beast. I'm not sure if the devs handpicked classes/jobs for the testers or if they had the option to choose. If it was the former, then perhaps Archer is being developed in to a nice ranged DPS class. If the damage is still low post P4 though, expect to be rolling bard or choosing a real DD job as your main. I loved RNG in FFXI and my main class in WoW was a Huntard for many years, so I'm hoping for it too. BRD might be really ******* fun and desirable though, so we'll see.
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#135 Jun 13 2013 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
niquev71 wrote:
Any more info about Archer>Bard. I heard the only physical range dps class in the game were extremely sub-par in damage output. I mained a Bard in FFXI and a Hunter in vanilla WOW before going Druid so the style of both interests me. I don't mind that they do not equal in dps as the pure dps classes, but I don't want a staggering gap between them. Having a 6%-10% base difference is acceptable since I heard they are partially a support class, but anything more would be disappointing if they don't have the ability to replace a White Mage in groups. But then again, I don't want to be the main healer either. I guess, one of the things I'm afraid of is when you are LFG, Archer/Bard becomes a last pick since they turned out to be an insignificant requirement for group progression.


Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:28pm by niquev71


In the Ifrit demo (lol) there was an archer firing off shots at the fiery beast. I'm not sure if the devs handpicked classes/jobs for the testers or if they had the option to choose. If it was the former, then perhaps Archer is being developed in to a nice ranged DPS class. If the damage is still low post P4 though, expect to be rolling bard or choosing a real DD job as your main. I loved RNG in FFXI and my main class in WoW was a Huntard for many years, so I'm hoping for it too. BRD might be really @#%^ing fun and desirable though, so we'll see.


I think Archer would be a really enjoyable class if it were the ultimate damage dealer and SUPER squishy. Thus making the job of the tank even more important!
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#136 Jun 13 2013 at 1:53 AM Rating: Good
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Blah still waiting for info about ARN/SMN =( When do you guy think that they will release gameplay vids etc about the class/job? I'm pretty sure it was stated somewhere in an interview that it would come at E3, but so far I've seen nothing =(
#137 Jun 13 2013 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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There's one more day of FFXIV goodness so there's a good chance of seeing something then.
#138 Jun 13 2013 at 2:34 AM Rating: Good
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Parathyroid wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
niquev71 wrote:
Any more info about Archer>Bard. I heard the only physical range dps class in the game were extremely sub-par in damage output. I mained a Bard in FFXI and a Hunter in vanilla WOW before going Druid so the style of both interests me. I don't mind that they do not equal in dps as the pure dps classes, but I don't want a staggering gap between them. Having a 6%-10% base difference is acceptable since I heard they are partially a support class, but anything more would be disappointing if they don't have the ability to replace a White Mage in groups. But then again, I don't want to be the main healer either. I guess, one of the things I'm afraid of is when you are LFG, Archer/Bard becomes a last pick since they turned out to be an insignificant requirement for group progression.


Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:28pm by niquev71


In the Ifrit demo (lol) there was an archer firing off shots at the fiery beast. I'm not sure if the devs handpicked classes/jobs for the testers or if they had the option to choose. If it was the former, then perhaps Archer is being developed in to a nice ranged DPS class. If the damage is still low post P4 though, expect to be rolling bard or choosing a real DD job as your main. I loved RNG in FFXI and my main class in WoW was a Huntard for many years, so I'm hoping for it too. BRD might be really @#%^ing fun and desirable though, so we'll see.


I think Archer would be a really enjoyable class if it were the ultimate damage dealer and SUPER squishy. Thus making the job of the tank even more important!


That's pretty much guaranteed to not happen. Let's all stop kidding ourselves that ranged glass cannons are balanced features of mmos. Ranger essentially killed every other physical dps in ffxi for about 2years under this pretense. It just doesn't work as a concept.
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#139 Jun 13 2013 at 6:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Gnu wrote:
So you can now buy an item directly from the ward search screen?

EDIT: Where does it go, straight to your inventory?


Edited, Jun 13th 2013 3:11am by Gnu


We don't know yet, the "AH" system wasn't implemented in the earlier phases. I believe it's supposed to be here for phase 3 although I can't find it on the roadmap.
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#140 Jun 13 2013 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Killua125 wrote:
You don't need to insult me saying I didn't know how to play, etc. It was incredibly simplistic.

Anyway, my biggest issue was the lack of any kind of micromanagement, again. Surely you can understand that complaint. I really don't like how you just get tons of TP just for starting a fight. It's bizarre and not fun (IMO, of course).

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:07pm by Killua125


You played a mindless DD and your complaint was "the fighting was mindless!"

Seriously..

Have you ever played an MMO that was challenging at level 20? I have not. Go back and play FFXI, this combat system is more engaging at 20 than FFXI's at 50. It wasn't until 55+ combat got a bit challenging, when al lthe jobs got their big ws's and hate management was a problem. And no, I'm not counting skillchains because they were dead and buried by 2006.

Tanking is very involved and required attention, skill, and resource management. I did feel that the TP regenerated too fast in the early levels, until I got to the first and second dungeons where I scraped and struggled for every inch on that tiny little meter, just hoping I could get off another shield lob to save our conjurer's life.

Admittedly, I didn't play Lancer. But it probably wasn't much different than 1.0, and it was a mindless DD zerg jobs there too.
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#141 Jun 13 2013 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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Wint wrote:
Gnu wrote:
So you can now buy an item directly from the ward search screen?

EDIT: Where does it go, straight to your inventory?


Edited, Jun 13th 2013 3:11am by Gnu


We don't know yet, the "AH" system wasn't implemented in the earlier phases. I believe it's supposed to be here for phase 3 although I can't find it on the roadmap.

The market board was implemented but yea, it's still going through changes. From what I remember though, buying an item did go straight to your inventory, there just wasn't a whole lot of activity to test it much. Most of the time there was nothing up last phase.

I for one am very much looking forward to today. Should see info on SMN, SCH, and who knows what else. Hopefully around the time the live letter starts no one at work will be bothering me.
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#142 Jun 13 2013 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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Side note about combat, from the translations that I read I'm looking forward to seeing it myself this weekend. And I'm also excited about MNK which I never really cared as much about. I'll quote two of Reinhart's translations.

Quote:
How are the caster jobs progressing?

Y: It may be hard to tell by looking at the job action movie we released earlier but for Conjurer and Thaumaturge there are elements called Astral Fire and Astral Blizzard, and if you continue using Blizzard type spells your element becomes Blizard based, and if you use Fire based you’ll become more Fire based. You’ll be able to tell right away by the fireballs circling around your character. With that state your fire damage from any damage will increase, however your MP usage will also increase a lot. Also there is something called Stance Change and there is Astral Fire level 1, level 2, level 3, for example if you cast 2 fire type spells you’ll have Lv2 Astral Fire element on your, while in that mode if you use stance change it switches to blizzard level 2 so you can add on blizzard spells with a cost of much faster MP regen. So you can look at the remaining MP and cast Fire till your MP is near depleted and then switching to blizzard, by doing that the MP will recover at really fast speed. You can cast blizzard to keep the continue damaging the mob and once the MP is regained to switch to Fire, then put in Thunder for DoT. For those that played 1.x FFXIV may feel that it has changed.

Quote:
Battle balance has been modified this time around but what do you think about balance between jobs?

Y: Easiest one to compare is Monk and Dragoon, their roles are both close range DPS, but for Monk they have something called Style. There are actions that can only be used while you’re in that specific style and by using that action it could switch to another style to use the next action. It will be where you can go through different position/actions in order 1>3>4>7>8 for the first round but 2nd round going 1>3>5>6 and going back to 1. By doing that correctly the DPS and attack speed will increase. So in the beginning it will be slow, but if you can keep it going it will be amazing. (Note: Just think of it as fighting game continuing combos).

Dragoon on the other hand is much more standard close range DPS, you stand in specific position to deal big damage with combo’s but if you do too much you’ll take hate easily. Also there are skills where you have to use from behind to deal the additional effect or jump where you need to be behind the mob and far away at same time. Or skills where you’re running in from behind and jump and stunning the mob with floor sweep then dealing combo from the side, then using abilities leading up to Dragon Dive. It’s standard close range DPS but made it where it looks cool for Dragoon, while Monk will require to think about how to keep the chain going, they are both same DPS but have different ways to be played. It’s up to the players style. Also this time Dragoon will be jumping a lot so some may enjoy that (laugh)

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#143 Jun 13 2013 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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How good are the gears you get from dungeon and quests? Are they good enough to be dangerous to new crafters? From what I've read it seems you get a lot of gear from these activities and I'm afraid that crafters making new equips will be mostly for endgame melds.
#144 Jun 13 2013 at 9:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jujubah wrote:
How good are the gears you get from dungeon and quests? Are they good enough to be dangerous to new crafters? From what I've read it seems you get a lot of gear from these activities and I'm afraid that crafters making new equips will be mostly for endgame melds.


I didn't get very far crafting so I can't answer that really. It's miles ahead of anything you can get from an NPC though.
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#145 Jun 13 2013 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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The crafting question brings up another question for me, namely: In the early stages of 1.0, upgrades for weapons/armor were pretty much only from crafters, I assume this has changed? From the comments on this thread, it appears that vendors sell very basic upgrades, and then quests will give gear that's upgraded from that (similar to many mmo's on the market today), with dungeon gear being a further step up from this. Yes/No?
#146 Jun 13 2013 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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That's basically true, yes. The NPC gear is decent to get you started, and there's even a low level fluff quest to get you to equip all gear level 4(?) and above. You can do it just be NPC but then you can fill in some pieces with quests and then head to the dungeons.

I don't think it'll impact crafters too much. Not every slot will be serviced by every dungeon, so maybe you have all level 15 gear except your waist and one ring are still level 4. Go to the Market Board and now you're set for a bit. It will be different for everyone, and then some people are going to want to buy full sets for alts after they get going (especially not having the quests the second time around.)
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#147 Jun 13 2013 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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Jujubah wrote:
How good are the gears you get from dungeon and quests? Are they good enough to be dangerous to new crafters? From what I've read it seems you get a lot of gear from these activities and I'm afraid that crafters making new equips will be mostly for endgame melds.


The items dropped in dungeons well into 2-3 categories (I can't remember the third one):

Pink/Red Gear: These looked fairly normal by appearance, but had randomly generated stats on them. Better than what you got from NPCs
Green/Blueish: These items seems to have set stat bonuses on them and their own models.

Since we couldn't socket materia, there wasn't much of a comparison to go on.
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#148 Jun 13 2013 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Is there still auto-attack? Any rumors of low lvl to high lvl notoriuse monsters? Is there alot of cool places to explore?
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#149 Jun 13 2013 at 9:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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IMFW wrote:
Is there still auto-attack? Any rumors of low lvl to high lvl notoriuse monsters? Is there alot of cool places to explore?


Auto attack exists, Yoshi-P has said it is your base damage before using any abilities.

The only notorious monsters so far are those that are sometimes encountered when doing Guildleves. The beta so far has only been Gridania and surrounding areas, but I'm excited based on what we've seen so far. The new client with the other cities and areas is only just under 6gb, and since the installation requires 12gb for launch I assume we're getting less than half of the game for beta. Lots to come!
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#150 Jun 13 2013 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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There is auto-attack. All NMs are part of FATEs right now, or individual specific ones in leves. The landscape is much much (and in Gridania's case just keep adding "much") improved. While we haven't seen the other areas, what they did to the Black Shroud alone warrants accolades.

Seriously, TBS used to be so bad I truly wonder how it was even released in the first place.
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#151 Jun 13 2013 at 10:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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What struck me particularly was the improvement in variation. The copypasta environments and camps were infamously bad. But now North Shroud is quite clearly distinct from Central Shroud and East Shroud. Central has the feeling of a fresh spring forest. East feels like a more mature green summery area. North has an autumn feel to it (largely due to the more brownish ground, I suspect.)
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