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Battle System changes interview and 700k beta testersFollow

#1 Jun 12 2013 at 4:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CiacjEYym1-aaS9rhRTYOXvT8r7ajlEvxCJmJgviR28/preview?pli=1&sle=true

Very interesting interview on the changes to the battle system which has been the cause of lots of consternation (Ostia - I'm looking at you :-)

Also, apparently there will be over 700,000 beta testers in B3. That seems massive to me given the number of people in version 1.0.

(hope the link works as I fail at the internet)


Edit: Stolen from Tannlore in the official beta forums.
Edit: Also, thank you to the person doing the translation who chooses not to be named.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 6:34pm by HallieXIV

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 8:32pm by HallieXIV
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#2 Jun 12 2013 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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I was right, combat sucked, or they would not have changed it.... Smiley: lol
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#3 Jun 12 2013 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Improving mechanics is what beta is for!
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#4 Jun 12 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
I was right, combat sucked, or they would not have changed it.... Smiley: lol

Lol yeah glad they changed it geez.. Glad it was in beta and not release. Actually listening a little bit to feedback.. Also woooah 700,000 testers?? ARR is going to be the new come back kid :D

I do have one question though.. Why is the date 6/13/2013.. Isnt today the 12th? Yoshi is still here in the U.S right? Or is it a Japan time thing

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 6:52pm by SaitoMishima
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#5 Jun 12 2013 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
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Speaking of that, FFXIV is going to have a Battle Recap portion for one hour at Square-Enix Presents in 10 minutes.

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#6 Jun 12 2013 at 4:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well dependin on how they estimate that, I may be 10 of them lol....
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#7 Jun 12 2013 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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SaitoMishima wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I was right, combat sucked, or they would not have changed it.... Smiley: lol

Lol yeah glad they changed it geez.. Glad it was in beta and not release. Actually listening a little bit to feedback.. Also woooah 700,000 testers?? ARR is going to be the new come back kid :D

I do have one question though.. Why is the date 6/13/2013.. Isnt today the 12th? Yoshi is still here in the U.S right? Or is it a Japan time thing

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 6:52pm by SaitoMishima


Its the 13th where I am!
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#8 Jun 12 2013 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
I was right, combat sucked, or they would not have changed it.... Smiley: lol


Touche my friend.

Either that or they always planned to change it and phase 1 was just for server stress testing.....I'm sure I read that somewhere.
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#9 Jun 12 2013 at 4:57 PM Rating: Default
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HallieXIV wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I was right, combat sucked, or they would not have changed it.... Smiley: lol


Touche my friend.

Either that or they always planned to change it and phase 1 was just for server stress testing.....I'm sure I read that somewhere.


Nah! Think about it, this is now the 7th time yoshi has had combat revamped, or adjusted.... THAT IS 7 TIMES! IN 2 YEARS!

They did planned for combat to be as it was in B1 and B2, but they did not planned to get the outcry they did for it, the only reason the NDA was not lifted up until now, was because of combat, why do you think they did a partial NDA lift, that people could review, but cunningly made it so that you could not talk about combat, only the starting city and the character creator..... Hmmm!

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#10 Jun 12 2013 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Ostia wrote:
HallieXIV wrote:
Ostia wrote:
I was right, combat sucked, or they would not have changed it.... Smiley: lol


Touche my friend.

Either that or they always planned to change it and phase 1 was just for server stress testing.....I'm sure I read that somewhere.


Nah! Think about it, this is now the 7th time yoshi has had combat revamped, or adjusted.... THAT IS 7 TIMES! IN 2 YEARS!

They did planned for combat to be as it was in B1 and B2, but they did not planned to get the outcry they did for it, the only reason the NDA was not lifted up until now, was because of combat, why do you think they did a partial NDA lift, that people could review, but cunningly made it so that you could not talk about combat, only the starting city and the character creator..... Hmmm!



If this is true (IF), then the purpose of holding a beta, to seek feedback and improve and enhance the game for all has served its purpose.

I agreed with you that combat needed a bit of a revamp but probably did not think it was as bas as you did. I also disagreed with your suggestion the mashing the same skill over and over again was more effective than mixing it up. All that said, the article referred to above does seem to deal with a lot of noted issues in the battle system and I am looking forward to testing in B3 (if possible given the level restriction of 35 and the absence of content post 35).
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#11 Jun 12 2013 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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This stuff sounds amazing.
Monk sounds like it'll play like a Rift DPS.
Drg sounds like a movement based powerhouse.
The mages sound like truly innovative ideas.

Yoshida is like the nerd whisperer.
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#12Ostia, Posted: Jun 12 2013 at 5:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Using the same skill over and over was as effective as mixing it up, everything died to fast to make a difference, once we can use recount and stuff like that, we might see a slim difference in DPS output, but as far as effective combat goes, in beta 1-2, there was little to no difference in either playing balls out, or playing 1-2-1-2/1-1-1-1-1-1.
#13 Jun 12 2013 at 5:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yet I'm pretty sure you said several times they would never change things since it was so close to launch. You can't be happy about anything can you Ostia?
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#14 Jun 12 2013 at 6:01 PM Rating: Default
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The combat did kinda suck. It felt like the mobs were easy and I didn't like how when you got a spell that was more powerful than the previous one it would be the only one used pretty much.
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#15 Jun 12 2013 at 6:02 PM Rating: Default
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Wint wrote:
Yet I'm pretty sure you said several times they would never change things since it was so close to launch. You can't be happy about anything can you Ostia?


I am pretty sure i did not :) But you are welcome to find that Quote Smiley: lol Also who said i was not happy ? Just because i point out that in beta phase 1-2 there was little to no advantage in holding a rotation over not holding one, does not mean i am unhappy, stop being a fanboy wint.
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#16 Jun 12 2013 at 6:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Keep telling me what to do and see how far that gets you.

I don't think I'm being a fanboy, they're listening to feedback and making changes yet you can't help but bash them every post you make.
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#17 Jun 12 2013 at 6:05 PM Rating: Default
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/hides behind the chair


This reminds me of when Marty called Beauford "Mad Dog". Everyone in the bar just cleared out.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 8:22pm by electromagnet83
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#18 Jun 12 2013 at 6:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wint wrote:
Keep telling me what to do and see how far that gets you.

I don't think I'm being a fanboy, they're listening to feedback and making changes yet you can't help but bash them every post you make.


I'll say they're responding to feedback. TONS of response. I'll never say that SE doesn't listen anymore.
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#19 Jun 12 2013 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
Yet I'm pretty sure you said several times they would never change things since it was so close to launch. You can't be happy about anything can you Ostia?


I am pretty sure i did not :) But you are welcome to find that Quote Smiley: lol Also who said i was not happy ? Just because i point out that in beta phase 1-2 there was little to no advantage in holding a rotation over not holding one, does not mean i am unhappy, stop being a fanboy wint.

While I agree with you about combat.. I am positive you were the one who said in beta there would not be any drastic changes.
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#20 Jun 12 2013 at 6:26 PM Rating: Good
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From the very start of Beta 1, there was a comment in the beta notes put up by the devs that phase 1 was for server stress testing and phase 2 was for controller testing.

It was also reasonably clearly put that the battle system would be subject to constant revision up to phase 3 when it would be close to final release version.

The reason companies have NDA's is because cant help themselves but ***** about things that they dont like even if it is just in beta.

I actaully agree with much of Ostia's views on combat in phase 1 and 2, but was always confident it would be fixed. Lets hope it was though as I have indicated previously, we may not know in phase 3 as there is still a level limit and no high level content.
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#21 Jun 12 2013 at 6:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regardless of how combat was, it sounds as though this is a beta test in the truest sense.

A complete 180 from 1.0 for sure; where our complaints were met with a nebulous "it will be fixed."

---

Truth be told a lot of MMOs do start out a bit slow in the combat department in order for you to get acclimated with the system. Usually you're too busy to notice, because you're enjoying the world and looking forward to later abilities anyway.

It does sound, though, that there needed to be work with the GCD and it looks as though SE is taking it to heart. Which makes me hopeful in it's own right.

MNK actually sounds fun now with the combos and all of that jazz.
#22 Jun 12 2013 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Phase 3 is going to need incredible input for balancing. What will be a monk's dps in a stand and fight situation? Will they be gimp in fights that require them to break their rotations often? How long and what is the payout of stacking elements on mage? Can it be zerged with a bunch of refresh and lead to OP production? Is the new war a bad tank and a bad dd, or does it make pld a waste of a slot? Does it make drg and monk liability squish dds?

You really can't balance these new concepts untill light party and raid settings. They sound very complex to balance.

Expect at least one job to be complely game breaking at first.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 9:03pm by benjjjamin

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 9:05pm by benjjjamin
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#23 Jun 12 2013 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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SaitoMishima wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Wint wrote:
Yet I'm pretty sure you said several times they would never change things since it was so close to launch. You can't be happy about anything can you Ostia?


I am pretty sure i did not :) But you are welcome to find that Quote Smiley: lol Also who said i was not happy ? Just because i point out that in beta phase 1-2 there was little to no advantage in holding a rotation over not holding one, does not mean i am unhappy, stop being a fanboy wint.

While I agree with you about combat.. I am positive you were the one who said in beta there would not be any drastic changes.


Drastic change would be making ARR combat system akin to Tera or GW2. Making some abilities not be tied down to your entire GCD is not a drastic change, is pretty simple, nor is increasing or lowering cool downs, what i meant by drastic changes, is that you are not gonna play beta phase 4, and then on release you are not gonna recognize the Game.

Also Wint i am not unhappy nor i am bashing SE, i think what they did with the NDA was very cleaver and wise to do, and so is addressing the combat system, i have not bash them for that, i only said that i am not sure if unlocking some abilities from the global cool down, will fixed it the way people want, since it will mean that now you have more abilitys ready to spam. Now if they address the encounters, and make them harder, then i am all for that, for i think that was more of the problem and not so much having GCD.
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#24 Jun 12 2013 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fair enough, let's see what phase 3 has in store for us.
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#25 Jun 12 2013 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Say what you will about FFXI's battle system but it really did take some honest to goodness skill to be good at.
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#26 Jun 12 2013 at 8:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree on the idea that the core of the battle system's probems lie with the monsters, not the classes. I would like to see more depth introduced more quickily for each class, as well as a bit more of the complexity returned for Lancer/Dragoon. But I don' think that there was a missing depth on behalf of the classes, so much as the fact that such depth wasn't needed.

There was a significant advantage to using Heavy Thrust's debuff. (About 10% base damage increase, before Potency multipliers) But it just didn't matter when the monster died quickly anyways.That sort of difference would shine like crazy in longer fights, not so much in the short ones we were experiencing.

The game is quite fun, I'm ready for it to be out. That said, it did need a lot of tuning at phase 2. But, you know what. I'm ok with them still needing to tune the battle system by release. There's enough of that core energy there that makes it ok for a Vanilla game. That said, I'm confident that the improvements for Beta 3 will be a good step forward.

electromagnet83 wrote:
Say what you will about FFXI's battle system but it really did take some honest to goodness skill to be good at.


I'll disagree with you there. All it took was Windower and decent scripting. Everything else is gear and pattern recognition. It wasn't so much skill as preparedness. FFXIV 1.x had more skill requirement than FFXI ever did, and I see that FFXIV is gearing up to be similar, though the lower levels seemed to have been slow on the learning curve. I would have preferred getting more toys sooner for the players to learn with.

Edited, Jun 12th 2013 10:16pm by Hyrist
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