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#52 Jun 18 2013 at 1:48 AM Rating: Good
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Most players started MRD to be a smashmouth dps. They got an add tank instead.

I am not so sure this description does MRD justice. They can put out some serious damage once you unlock berserker.
Also, their damage increasing skills have a much lower cooldown than those of gladiator, making them about twice as
potent. It's a very interesting class, because it is a full tank that does good damage, but requires decidedly more skill to
reach its full potential than gladiator. Or at least that was my impression.

If you want to be "the turtle", go GLA. Easy, steady tank'n-spank without too much to worry about; but in return, your DD
potential is very limited. If you want to be an excellent tank while doing impressive damage at the same time, while not
running out of TP or HP, you will have to combine the skills of several classes on MRD. There's more "potential" here in
the long run, but a much steeper initial investment (skill and time) required.
#53 Jun 18 2013 at 5:07 AM Rating: Default
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Transmigration wrote:
benjjjamin wrote:
Most players started MRD to be a smashmouth dps. They got an add tank instead. Hopefully berserker or dark knight is on its way. Beastmaster would just add insult to injury.


Not if it was a melee version of WoW's hunter. They would put out some serious DPS if that was the case.


There was a warrior beastmaster in Rift that eventually did great DPS It's just that people who play pet classes play pet classes. People who play large 2h weapon DPS don't tend to want to play pet classes. I hope beastmaster comes from its own class so that everyone who starts it knows that's what they're getting. Imagine starting marauder in 2010 because it had the highest damage per swing kind of archetype...fast forward 3 years later when that has been turned into a tank and a pet class pair of hybrids.

It'd be like starting the fencer class, only to find out it's thief and dancer. You'd be like :/
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#54 Jun 18 2013 at 5:18 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Most players started MRD to be a smashmouth dps. They got an add tank instead.

I am not so sure this description does MRD justice. They can put out some serious damage once you unlock berserker.
Also, their damage increasing skills have a much lower cooldown than those of gladiator, making them about twice as
potent. It's a very interesting class, because it is a full tank that does good damage, but requires decidedly more skill to
reach its full potential than gladiator. Or at least that was my impression.

If you want to be "the turtle", go GLA. Easy, steady tank'n-spank without too much to worry about; but in return, your DD
potential is very limited. If you want to be an excellent tank while doing impressive damage at the same time, while not
running out of TP or HP, you will have to combine the skills of several classes on MRD. There's more "potential" here in
the long run, but a much steeper initial investment (skill and time) required.


Welp we'll see what happens when endgame starts stressing tanks and dps checks hit the game. I hope warrior can tank anything in the game, because if they can't the paladins will get first dibs on gear to tank the major bosses, and then warriors will assume their place as the guild's add phase tank with the leftovers. I doubt they will allow warriors to compete with paladins for the guild's main tank position. Players also insist on finding which is best and which is gimp, and they blow those differences out of proportion into sweeping statements of what you can and can't do with them. I hate when they do that, but it's nearly inevitable once endgame mentality sets in.

I'll keep the warrior maxed out. But I think its design doesn't live up to the warrior as a founding job, and it betrays the FFXI warrior archetype by a fair margin. Combined with the difficulties of balancing hybrid jobs, with hybrid taxes...and it's no surprise that warrior comes out dead last by a double down margin when polls ask what players are interested in/will be levelling to 50 first. Surprisingly, scholar tends to be 2nd last. But it's like 4% to 9% interested in that job.
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#55 Jun 18 2013 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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benjjjamin wrote:
Most players started MRD to be a smashmouth dps. They got an add tank instead. Hopefully berserker or dark knight is on its way. Beastmaster would just add insult to injury.

Glad may get drk....I will be severely dissaponted if mrd wastes that greataxe on a hybrid pet class.

The Gaxe is HUNGRY.


Nobody did that. Mrd has always been a tank that does damage. You should have read your class description.
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#56 Jun 18 2013 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
benjjjamin wrote:
Most players started MRD to be a smashmouth dps. They got an add tank instead. Hopefully berserker or dark knight is on its way. Beastmaster would just add insult to injury.

Glad may get drk....I will be severely dissaponted if mrd wastes that greataxe on a hybrid pet class.

The Gaxe is HUNGRY.


Nobody did that. Mrd has always been a tank that does damage. You should have read your class description.


Boy you sure didn't. Back when the description of pugilist included steal on the official site, marauder was described as a heavy damage dealer.
Still sore I see. Hmm.
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#57 Jun 18 2013 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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benjjjamin wrote:
The Gaxe is HUNGRY.
I just got back from a lunch meeting.
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#58 Jun 18 2013 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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benjjjamin wrote:

Boy you sure didn't. Back when the description of pugilist included steal on the official site, marauder was described as a heavy damage dealer.
Still sore I see. Hmm.

I remember that. Memory's foggy about what it said on marauder, but I never forgot the pugilist having steal or DoH classes having combat roles. Another laughable, but painful memory of 1.0.
#59 Jun 18 2013 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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benjjjamin wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
benjjjamin wrote:
Most players started MRD to be a smashmouth dps. They got an add tank instead. Hopefully berserker or dark knight is on its way. Beastmaster would just add insult to injury.

Glad may get drk....I will be severely dissaponted if mrd wastes that greataxe on a hybrid pet class.

The Gaxe is HUNGRY.


Nobody did that. Mrd has always been a tank that does damage. You should have read your class description.


Boy you sure didn't. Back when the description of pugilist included steal on the official site, marauder was described as a heavy damage dealer.
Still sore I see. Hmm.


If you want a pure damage class, why not just level LNC or PGL instead? Polearm isn't really all that different than Great Axe, and the class sounds more your speed than MRD. Even in FFXI, WAR was intended to be a hybrid damage and tanking class.

Back on topic, LNC's Invigorate definitely sounds a lot like a SAM ability so there's another connection there.
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#60 Jun 18 2013 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
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TwistedOwl wrote:
benjjjamin wrote:

Boy you sure didn't. Back when the description of pugilist included steal on the official site, marauder was described as a heavy damage dealer.
Still sore I see. Hmm.

I remember that. Memory's foggy about what it said on marauder, but I never forgot the pugilist having steal or DoH classes having combat roles. Another laughable, but painful memory of 1.0.


Yeah, to be fair marauders weren't the only ones to get their starting archetypes changed around. Conjurer rivals marauder in the severity of the switch. Archer...not a ranger. Bard.

I levelled conjurer and marauder because I had a FFXI warrior and I wanted to try an offensive elemental mage this time around. Bang. Tank and healer.

FrozenSherbet wrote:
benjjjamin wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
benjjjamin wrote:
Most players started MRD to be a smashmouth dps. They got an add tank instead. Hopefully berserker or dark knight is on its way. Beastmaster would just add insult to injury.

Glad may get drk....I will be severely dissaponted if mrd wastes that greataxe on a hybrid pet class.

The Gaxe is HUNGRY.


Nobody did that. Mrd has always been a tank that does damage. You should have read your class description.


Boy you sure didn't. Back when the description of pugilist included steal on the official site, marauder was described as a heavy damage dealer.
Still sore I see. Hmm.


If you want a pure damage class, why not just level LNC or PGL instead? Polearm isn't really all that different than Great Axe, and the class sounds more your speed than MRD. Even in FFXI, WAR was intended to be a hybrid damage and tanking class.

Back on topic, LNC's Invigorate definitely sounds a lot like a SAM ability so there's another connection there.


I have lancer to 40. I'll have dragoon at 50 by launch. Many people are doing an exodus from warrior and going to drg or monk.
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#61 Jun 18 2013 at 2:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Pere check your messages!
#62 Jun 18 2013 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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Zylia wrote:
Pere check your messages!

Lol holy crap hi! Ok
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#63 Jun 18 2013 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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Here is my theory:

Base on the fact that Arcanist >> SMN or SCH, that they use the exact same weapon type book but have different role (SMN is more DD while SCH is a healer).

I think that each class will give birth to 2 jobs that may have different roles.

GLD >> PLD or RDM:
While PLD need the CNJ subjob, RDM will have the THM subjob. RDM will be more a damage dealer half physical, half nuking.

THM >> BLM or Necromencer
The Necromencer job fit well with the lore of the THM. It could be implemented in many ways. Be a pet job (in that case, subjob would be Arcanist) or more a soul/void based spell-line that could go in any direction.

ARC >> BRD or RNG
Ranger would of course be more DD oriented

Basic dagger user (scout?) >> THF or NIN
THF would have LNC subjob since LNC have a couple of bonus on move while doing it from behind the mob.
NIN would have PUG subjob (for evasion, chi-powered spell, etc) could be a tank

Basic gun user (Musketeer) >> Gunner or Corsair
Gunner would have ARC subjob for pure range physical DD
Corsair would have THM subjob and do spell through their gun, more a mage/nuking class

Basic Greatsword user (Berserker?) >> DRK or SAM
DRK would of course have THM as a subjob (DD role)
Sam could use a MRD subjob and go Tank side (Honor, duel, challenge and all that lore wise)

CNJ >> WHM or Geomancer
Geomancer fits well with the lore of CNJ, would be nuking type of mage

LNC >> DRG or Templar
Templar would be a Tank, with lore on the break equip (or attribute) to negate damage

MRD >> Warrior or a DD path (Ravager?)
Easy to do with the lore. Subjob: LNC

PUG >> MNK or something (i don't know... maybe Mime?)

Basic 1 hand axe (Hunter?) >> Beastmaster or Bluemage
One would be able to charm/summon monster to help, the other would be able to learn monster's attack.

That's pretty much it, this is based on absolutely nothing at all so please take it with a grain of salt. I've tried to match up as much of possible of the lore of the existing class/job while doing the speculation thought.




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#64 Jun 18 2013 at 3:55 PM Rating: Good
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I'm very excited with Yoshi-P's interest into bringing a sneaky class into the game. Has THF/NIN written all over it!
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#65 Jun 26 2013 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm seeing a lot of "let's bring jobs from ff xi into the game." I like what they are doing so far to not make this game a FF XI-2. I don't want to see all the same old jobs that have been in other games. I understand there are some staple jobs that if they weren't present just wouldn't make it a Final Fantasy game but I want to see a little more creativity so that this game doesn't get stale. That being said if DRK enters the game I think I would like to see it unlock from LNC + THM. It would still be a two hand weapon that could be skinned to be scythe-ish with a great compliment of weapon skills from the LNC path plus a little extra reach to make the lower defense more manageable.
#66 Jun 26 2013 at 9:47 AM Rating: Decent
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adampalooza wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of "let's bring jobs from ff xi into the game." I like what they are doing so far to not make this game a FF XI-2.


I'm seeing a lot of this too. For example, dark knight does not require a great sword or scythe. Dark Knight was basically introduced in FF4 where Cecil used a dark blade (deathbringer) and a dark shield.

There are a lot of possible jobs because the final fantasy lore has a lot of content but what we dont need is too much overlap. FFXI really didnt need more classes. Once it was found that one class was better at a role than the others, groups sought after that class the most to fill that role. Ask a DRG about their party invites in the early levels. There were much better choices for damage dealing for a very long time.

I'm not saying I want FFXIV to have only a handful of classes and jobs, but if they go that route the classes need to bring a useful and unique set of skills to a group. Otherwise they'll be sitting LFG while the more effective job goes out to engage in content. So goes the nature of an MMO.
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#67 Jun 26 2013 at 10:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
adampalooza wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of "let's bring jobs from ff xi into the game." I like what they are doing so far to not make this game a FF XI-2.


I'm seeing a lot of this too. For example, dark knight does not require a great sword or scythe. Dark Knight was basically introduced in FF4 where Cecil used a dark blade (deathbringer) and a dark shield.

There are a lot of possible jobs because the final fantasy lore has a lot of content but what we dont need is too much overlap. FFXI really didnt need more classes. Once it was found that one class was better at a role than the others, groups sought after that class the most to fill that role. Ask a DRG about their party invites in the early levels. There were much better choices for damage dealing for a very long time.

I'm not saying I want FFXIV to have only a handful of classes and jobs, but if they go that route the classes need to bring a useful and unique set of skills to a group. Otherwise they'll be sitting LFG while the more effective job goes out to engage in content. So goes the nature of an MMO.


Hopefully duty finder will help with that somewhat. I wouldn't mind DRK using a sword and shield, but I think it will end up using Great Axe instead. Bloodbath, Mercy Stroke, and the other HP related abilities sound like a good fit for a job that uses its HP to attack. Instead of increasing HP and lowering damage like WAR, DRK could do the opposite.
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#68 Jun 26 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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Below I have listed a few *known* (by me) Final Fantasy Classes that were previously used and the weapons associated with them:

Dnc: H2H (11), Tamborine, Chakrum (7 Yuffi-nin/thf/dnc type, 8 Rhinoa - Dnc/Rdm type)
BLZ (Black Wizard): Dagger, Rod
WHZ (White Wizard): Staff
Geomancer: Staff?
Blue Mage: ??? (Don't remember, I think they historically were stave users)
Sketcher: Paintbrush (Blue Mage?)
Controller/BeastMaster: H2h (Gau), Paint Brush (Upgraded Sketcher? Been a while, can't remember which came first), Axe (11)
Drk (Dark Knight): Sword, Polearm (FF6, Ok, technically he was a Dark Dragoon), Great Sword (FF11)
Master: H2H (Yang Fang FF4)
Martial Artist: H2H (Sabin, ff6, also used Street Fighter style moves)
Engineer: "Tools" (Edgar in ff6), Polearm (Cid ff7- He is basically a Dragoon who builds airships in this one)
Musketeer: Gun (FF14 - The guild is below the Maruader guild)
Corsair: Sword/Gun (FF11) - If you look at the AF for Musketeer it REALLY resembles 11's Corsair
Ninja: Short Asian Blades, Katana, Daito, Sai, wakazashi
Samurai: Long Asian Blades: Daikatana, odachi
Thief: Crossbow, dagger
Scout: ???
Assassin: Dagger/kunai (I could see a problem with 3charing the name for that...)
Mimic/Onion Knight: Anything/everything
Knight: Sword and Shield
Barbarian: Axe
Brawler: H2H
Pirate: Sword/Gun
Red Mage: Sword/Foil
Fencer: Foil
Soldier: Sword/Gunsword
Freelancer: Sword
Dragon Knight: Polearm (Dragoon with different translation to name)
Puppet Master: H2H
Gambler: Gun?
Breserker: H2H?


Now I know that I am missing quite a few, these are just ones that I remember (and I do not claim to have perfect memory, and I didn't research them just to keep it true to me for the list).

With that being said, there is plenty of room for not only additional classes, modification from one class to another, but a healthy history of many things only using one weapon, or variations of a single weapon. There is also a history of classes building into Jobs, or the evolution of classes beyond their base.

SE has a lot to work with, and it will be interesting. But I don't see balance as being "For every job we add to one class, we need to add another". Diversity and balance can be maintained even if they are not equal in allocation.

Personally I would like to see the following additions:
Lnc -> Drk (Yeah, Yoshi said it would be coming from Gla, but I just like the idea of them using a polearm instead)
Gla -> Rdm
Con -> Whz, But Based on the current balance, I really don't see that happening
Mrd -> Bar(barian)
Gla -> Sam (Introduction of Asian Swords usable by the job)
Arc -> Scout
Thm -> Geomancer
Pug -> Master

And the classes I would like to see them add would be:
Sketcher: Would work to add a Blu and Bst without running into balance issues, and a paint brush as a weapon is funny.
Musketeer: Yeah, I know it's comming, but it's not here yet, and I would like to see Corsair come from it.
Soldier: After seeing the stuff the Garleans have, I WANT A SOLDIER!
Thief: Would be great, then add Assassin and Ninja from it.
#69 Jul 02 2013 at 2:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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ChairLegOfTruth;876066 wrote:
Erm, slight correction, but DRK being DD isn't a recent dynamic. They've almost always been slow, heavy hitters who sacrifice HP for spike damage. Also, with the exception of FF II, XI and CC, they've always been primarily depicted using one-handed swords. There's some precedent for DRK to branch off from LNC, as Leon (the original DRK) had a spear as his ultimate weapon, but series wise...


Saw that on the beta forums...After I read the highlighted bit I went and took a look at the skills for Lancer. They are totally setting this up. Blood for Blood, Life Surge and, to some extent, Vorpal Thrust really sound like abilities that a DRK would rely on. And the parry would be really handy if they stole hate. I could see DRK coming from Lancer with Marauder and Thaumaturge as secondaries.

Ability ideas...

Lv30 - Shadow of Death - The Dark Knight infuses his lance with dark energies, transforming it into a fearsome weapon of total destruction. While in this state, the Dark Knight's combat and magic abilities are increased but he cannot be healed with White Magic, stops regenerating TP (Only base regen is lost) and constantly loses life. Effect is canceled upon reuse.

Visually this would basically surround the lance in a dark energy that looks like a scythe. The weapon would not actually change it would just have an dark (black? Dark Purple?) aura around it. It would be impossible to heal the DRK and they would lose 15% max health every 10s.

Additional Effects: En-Darkness (Increases Damage by 15%), adds 50% STR to INT. Life lost due to Shadow of Death effect reduces enmity 10%

Additional information: Instant cast w/short power up/scythe aura thing animation. 100 HP, 100 Mana and 100 TP cost.

Lv35 - Consume (Requires Shadow of Death) - The Dark Knight consumes his opponents very essence, restoring HP/MP/TP. Instant spell that steals MP/HP up to 20% of maximum and 200 TP. 30s recast.

Lv40 - Dark Seal (Requires Shadow of Death) - Drains 1% of the DRKs maximum HP per second and triples the effect/potency of Consume, Darkness and Scathe. Also doubles the duration of any status effects (Lethargy, Sleep, Darkness) cast during the duration. 10s duration. 180s recast.

Lv45 - Darkness (Requires Shadow of Death) - The Dark Knight weakens his foes at the cost of his own life. X Mana and 15% maximum life consumed to afflict all nearby enemies with Blind, Physical Defense Down and Darkness damage over time. Restores 1% of the DRKs maximum HP/s for each enemy afflicted (This is not affected by Dark Seal). DoT Potency 30. Duration 15s. 60s recast.

Lv50 - Souleater (Requires Shadow of Death) - The Dark Knight consumes 35% maximum HP and does a devastating attack on all surrounding enemies.

Thoughts?
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